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[bumleforce]

So revenue down 20% where are all the doom and gloom articles like we saw with xbox?

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

The strategy of mid gen updates is designed around keeping prices high (targeting high ASP’s in investor parlance). Price drops are infrequent promotions unless a big cost reduction can be obtained with a new model, but even in those cases you try to pair it with w more luxury option you try to drive people to.

So drop price shortly before PS5. It'll increase the perceived value of PS5 if it's $200 more than the pro. A $500-$300-$200 setup would be great to get some backend casual PS4 sales and maybe a few more pros sold off

 

[redfirm]

So revenue down 20% where are all the doom and gloom articles like we saw with xbox?

didnt you know. the ps5 is cancelled. playstation is a huge failure /jk

 

[GHG]

So revenue down 20% where are all the doom and gloom articles like we saw with xbox?

Forbes contributors are being mobilised as we speak.

 

[DanielsM]

So revenue down 20% where are all the doom and gloom articles like we saw with xbox?

Because revenues were never up for MS.... its been kind of grind down.... although you can't really calculate their Microsoft gaming revenue out medium or long-term as they keep changing the reporting. Its a 10 year slide for Microsoft, and that was just from a okayish sales number, while they were most probably losing money.

 

[ethomaz]

Something wrong here.


Software sell-through LTD : 1.181 billion games
Software sell-in LTD (minimum) : > 1.148 billion games

Sell-in will always be higher than sell-through.

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

Those treasure chest ready and overflowing for PS5 backing. Thy are doing better in profit than every other gaming division, bodes well for what is in store for PS5. Release the Kraken.

Is the cost to make the PS5 largely favored in to these numbers? Like didn't PS3 cost them a ton before it came out due to R&D and getting ready to make it and such? If so that makes these numbers more impressive if they're remaining so profitable

 

[it_wasn't_me]

So revenue down 20% where are all the doom and gloom articles like we saw with xbox?

Xbone is in decline since 2016. Heavily since 2018. For Xbone, end of the gen is since 2016. PSN alone still generates more revenue ( AFTER 6 YEARS ) than entire MS gaming division yearly. After 6 years PS4 is stil selling in 14+ m. units yearly

Did you missed the "2nd BEST YEAR for PS4" after 6 years???

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

So revenue down 20% where are all the doom and gloom articles like we saw with xbox?

What's mad about MS' gaming revenues is it includes the (declining) goliath that is Minecraft, which prints money and includes sales on:

XB1
XB1X
XBSAD
XB1S
PC
Mobile

yet still their gaming revenues are less than half those made by Sony through just PS4/Pro. Something is not working with MS' gaming strategy.

 

[-Arcadia-]

108 million units sold is truly impressive. I wonder where it’ll end up by the time it winds down?

They’re definitely standing amongst the absolute greats at this level.

 

[DanielsM]

Xbone is in decline since 2016. Heavily since 2018. For Xbone, end of the gen is since 2016. PSN alone still generates more revenue ( AFTER 6 YEARS ) than entire MS gaming division yearly. After 6 years PS4 is stil selling in 14+ m. units yearly

Did you missed the "2nd BEST YEAR for PS4" after 6 years???

The peak was 2010-2011 between unit sales and kinect sales. Very hard to compare MS as they keep changing financial reporting of gaming. I would say you probably have 9-10 years of steady revenue decline although, the way the reported you would think there was actually an increase. Of course, even during the good years they were most probably burning lots of cash. It would interesting to know the burn cash rate but we'll probably never truly know.

 

[Gamernyc78]

Is the cost to make the PS5 largely favored in to these numbers? Like didn't PS3 cost them a ton before it came out due to R&D and getting ready to make it and such? If so that makes these numbers more impressive if they're remaining so profitable

PS3 hit was over 100 which made them go in the red. Ps4 has been profitable since the first year of its release and software sales have been ridiculous so much so it took them out of the red and got them in the positive most of this gen. I don't know how much R@D was for PS5. My guess is with all tht money they accumulated due to ps4 success thy take up to a 100 loss on PS5 and well get a solid, strong console. They have lots of profit now in gaming more than most.

 

[Fake]

PS4 will get one of his best games only this year, 2020... I don't get why people want this gen to die.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Yea their sensor sector is doing fucking ace

They are also getting into silicon with ReRam solutions and the like which should also do well for them setting up for future memory tech.

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

PS3 hit was over 100 which made them go in the red. Ps4 has been profitable since the first year of its release and software sales have been ridiculous so much so it took them out of the red and got them in the positive most of this gen. I don't know how much R@D was for PS5. My guess is with all tht money they accumulated due to ps4 success thy take up to a 100 loss on PS5 and well get a solid, strong console. They have lots of profit now in gaming more than most.

Wait are you talking R&D or the loss per console?

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

PS4 will get one of his best games only this year, 2020... I don't get why people want this gen to die.

2 of it's best with ghosts of tsushima and last of us

 

[Entroyp]

Damn, until recently I thought the Playstation division was barely surviving. Don’t listen to crazy people I guess.

 

[Gamernyc78]

Damn, until recently I thought the Playstation division was barely surviving. Don’t listen to crazy people I guess.

They are raking in the dough more than anybody right now in terms of revenue and profit, it's not even close.

 

[Entroyp]

2020 could be the biggest year for PS4

With TLOU II, RE3R, Cyberpunk 2077, and Ghost of Tsushima, things about to get wild this year

And FFVII RE

 

[mckmas8808]

2020 could be the biggest year for PS4

With TLOU II, RE3R, Cyberpunk 2077, and Ghost of Tsushima, things about to get wild this year

And all those games will be playable on the PS5 too, but at a better resolution and frame rate on day one!!!! Just think about that for a second. There's literally no way this won't be the best year for Playstation in history.

 

[Evilms]

 

[wolffy71]

This is like hoes bragging about which pimp beats his girls the best. Yes they are getting rich off of us, we get it.

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

Damn, until recently I thought the Playstation division was barely surviving. Don’t listen to crazy people I guess.

Ever since PS4 came out they've been printing money. Hell in the past they went in the red shortly before the new consoles but they seem to be avoiding that this time

 

[Evilms]

 

[Investor9872]

I was hoping Nintendo would have taken notes on the success of Sony's and MS' online ecosystems, and start building a more robust network infrastructure. The more AAA party games made available on their eShop, the more traffic and attention it will garner. But they need a Switch Pro version strong enough for developers to port over their "heavy" games. Unfortunately, that's not going to happen this year with the Switch selling like hotcakes!

 

[wolffy71]

Am I supposed to feel bad that MS only made $11B or even $4B? Most companies would kill to fail like that.

 

[TBiddy]

The amount of fake numbers in this thread is disturbing. Honest mistakes are one thing, but lying? Why?

 

[Vawn]

CyberPanda embarrassing himself here. Lol.

 

[Evilms]

The amount of fake numbers in this thread is disturbing. Honest mistakes are one thing, but lying? Why?

Sorry, but the numbers don't lie

 

[Mikey Jr.]

This thing is still $299 msrp. Its dropped $100 in 7 years.

I don't think Sony really cares too much about unit sales at this point I guess.

 

[michaelius]

Hmm they can hit around 115 millions at the time next gen launches - if Sony keeps PS4 as cheap console for next few years they could do 130-140 millions total.

 

[Entroyp]

Am I supposed to feel bad that MS only made $11B or even $4B? Most companies would kill to fail like that.

Do you own MS stock?

 

[TBiddy]

Sorry, but the numbers don't lie

No, the numbers are correct. The way people are presenting them, however, are not. Makes me miss old SalesGAF. At least people actually cared about facts.

 

[Sub_Level]

Phase 1 - Early Adopters
Take a loss on hardware to keep price as low as possible and create an install base.

Phase 2 - Optimization
Manufacture units at cost or even profit through revised techniques.

Phase 3 - Capitalize (we are here)
Use momentum of growing install base to secure exclusive and grow first party studios. Gradually lower price.

Phase 4 - Second Wave Expansion
Push out cheap last-gen hardware to lower income consumers in south america and southeast asia. Begin phase 1 with next gen system.

Sony always wins baby.

 

[TBiddy]

so add then 400M PC players. so 110M vs 450M, how about that?

plus revenue, does not tell anything how healthy they are. maybe Sony invest 500M and rake 1B. while m$ invest 2B and rake 1B revenue, so that number is blown unhealthy way and that is the cases i think if we look at how they dumping money.

Microsoft do not have 450 million gaming customers on the PC.

And no, revenue isn't a sign of health, necessarily. But comparing Sony and Microsofts revenue shows us, that they are more or less equal in terms of turnover per customer. It shouldn't surprise anyone, so I don't see why it's so controversial.

 

[mckmas8808]

This is like hoes bragging about which pimp beats his girls the best. Yes they are getting rich off of us, we get it.

No, it's nothing like that.

Microsoft do not have 450 million gaming customers on the PC.

And no, revenue isn't a sign of health, necessarily. But comparing Sony and Microsofts revenue shows us, that they are more or less equal in terms of turnover per customer. It shouldn't surprise anyone, so I don't see why it's so controversial.

That's very interesting spin there.

 

[DanielsM]

Microsoft do not have 450 million gaming customers on the PC.

And no, revenue isn't a sign of health, necessarily. But comparing Sony and Microsofts revenue shows us, that they are more or less equal in terms of turnover per customer. It shouldn't surprise anyone, so I don't see why it's so controversial.

Not sure what this means. Revenue can be one sign of health, not that its the only sign that should be considered.... Microsoft pretty much hides everything else though, been like that for 20 years. Not sure what this turnover business is.

 

[wolffy71]

Do you own MS stock?

I own a good bit in mutual funds, I'm sure there's some MS in there. Or I guess I'm not totally sure but I'd assume so.

 

[Panajev2001a]

PS3 hit was over 100 which made them go in the red. Ps4 has been profitable since the first year of its release and software sales have been ridiculous so much so it took them out of the red and got them in the positive most of this gen. I don't know how much R@D was for PS5. My guess is with all tht money they accumulated due to ps4 success thy take up to a 100 loss on PS5 and well get a solid, strong console. They have lots of profit now in gaming more than most.

Not only that, they have a huge pile of PSN digital revenue to consolidate, protect, and growth. They will not want to lose a single user and gain more if they can day one.

 

[DanielsM]

Not only that, they have a huge pile of PSN digital revenue to consolidate, protect, and growth. They will not want to lose a single user and gain more if they can day one.

Pretty much what has happened i.e. PS Plus. About 1/3rd of console players will pay for online.... really the only service I see gamers really subscribing too in mass. Figure close to $2b in revenue just from PS+. Back to being silent on PS Now, which to me will be slow to no growth - small revenue stream potential.

Gamers by and large are not going to sign up for a whole bunch of services, lucky if there is one service.

 

[it_wasn't_me]

Pretty much what has happened i.e. PS Plus. About 1/3rd of console players will pay for online.... really the only service I see gamers really subscribing too in mass. Figure close to $2b in revenue just from PS+. Back to being silent on PS Now, which to me will be slow to no growth - small revenue stream potential.

Gamers by and large are not going to sign up for a whole bunch of services, lucky if there is one service.

Well, PS Now is 10$ monthly. If you want to look in this way : PS NOW 1 million users = 10 million Game Pass Ultimate users ( because GPU is still 1$ for a long time now )

 

[SLB1904]

So revenue down 20% where are all the doom and gloom articles like we saw with xbox?

same number but not the same thing

 

[DanielsM]

Well, PS Now is 10$ monthly. If you want to look in this way : PS NOW 1 million users = 10 million Game Pass Ultimate users ( because GPU is still 1$ for a long time now )

I'm assuming people are signing up with the deals $59.99, 69.99 and 79.99. I think its tough sell for the masses, an additional small revenue stream.

I figure EA Access is probably the most successful at 3m users at $30-50 a year, and they've been around for going on 6 years.

 

[yurinka]

2020 could be the biggest year for PS4

With TLOU II, RE3R, Cyberpunk 2077, and Ghost of Tsushima, things about to get wild this year

Don't forget stuff like Final Fantasy VII Remake, Dreams, Doom Eternal and the typical FIFA, COD, etc.

I think 2020 may be bigger than 2019, at least in amount of games sold for PS4.

And this is considering that 2019 has been the 2nd year with the biggest amount of games sold for a single console in game history (PS4). The top 1 year being 2018 (with PS4 too, obviously).

 

[Great Hair]

My take on this, after some research (microsoft annual reports)

Computing and Gaming Hardware

Spoiler

YEAR 2012
13.0 million X360
YEAR 2013
9.8 million Xbox consoles, of which 3mill. are Xbox One
YEAR 2014
11.7 million Xbox consoles, Xbox Platform revenue decreased by 22%. Of which 7 million are Xbox One. Xbox One has Almost Sold 10 Million Units to Retailers, Microsoft Reveals - Nov. 2014, 1 year after launch.
YEAR 2015
Xbox Platform revenue decreased 6%. We sold 12.1 million Xbox consoles in fiscal year 2015.

YEAR 2016
Xbox hardware revenue decreased 16%, mainly due to lower prices of Xbox One consoles sold and a decline in Xbox 360 console volume, offset in part by higher Xbox One console volume than prev. year.

YEAR 2017
Xbox hardware revenue decreased 21%, later it claims 16% ...
Xbox hardware revenue decreased 16%, mainly due to lower prices of Xbox One consoles sold and a decline in Xbox 360 console volume, offset in part by higher Xbox One console volume. Software revenue increased 11%

Xbox One est.
2013
3million during xmas
2014 -22%
shipped close to 10 million to retailers nov. 2014
11.7 million sold xbox consoles, around 7 million-ish Xbox One shipped to retailers
2015 -6%
12.1 million sold xbox consoles, less 360s more Xbox Ones. More than 7million shipped to retailers
2016 -16% , less 360s, more Xbox Ones. how much tough?
16% less than 12.1 mill. = 10.16million shipped to retailers
2017 -16 or -21% (report is contradicting)
again less 360s, more Xbox Ones, 21% less than 10.16mill. = 8million shipped to retailers
2018 -21% compared to 2017
Gaming revenue decreased slightly, primarily due to lower Xbox hardware revenue, offset in part by higher revenue from Xbox software and services. Xbox hardware revenue decreased 21%, mainly due to lower prices of consoles sold and a decline in volume of consoles sold. Xbox software and services revenue increased 11%, driven by a higher volume of Xbox Live transactions and revenue per transaction.
21% less of 8mill. = 6.32 million shipped to retailers
2019 -13%
Gaming revenue increased $1.0 billion or 10%, driven by Xbox software and services growth of 19%, primarily due to third-party title strength and subscriptions growth, offset in part by a decline in Xbox hardware of 13% primarily due to a decrease in volume of consoles sold.
13% less of 6.32mill. = 5.40 million shipped to retailers

2013 to 2019 xbox consoles shipped&sold
estimated 53.68mill.
IF 80% are XB1 = 42.944mill.
IF 90% are XB1 = 48.312mill.
IF 65% are XB1 = 34.892mill.
ratio of 10, max. 500mill. software sales
Phil Spencer said something of wishing to reach 70mill. software sales withe help of Xbox One x (2017/18). Means they were selling below that til 2017.

6 x 70 = 420 mill. software sales.

 

[Iced Arcade]

this old pic

not much has changed

...... Crash is Activision and billy isn't CEO of MS. Lol

 

[Ryu Kaiba]

...... Crash is Activision and billy isn't CEO of MS. Lol

thats not much in the grand scheme of things but yes I knew that.

 

[Evilms]

My take on this, after some research (microsoft annual reports)

Computing and Gaming Hardware

Spoiler

YEAR 2012
13.0 million X360
YEAR 2013
9.8 million Xbox consoles, of which 3mill. are Xbox One
YEAR 2014
11.7 million Xbox consoles, Xbox Platform revenue decreased by 22%. Of which 7 million are Xbox One. Xbox One has Almost Sold 10 Million Units to Retailers, Microsoft Reveals - Nov. 2014, 1 year after launch.
YEAR 2015
Xbox Platform revenue decreased 6%. We sold 12.1 million Xbox consoles in fiscal year 2015.

YEAR 2016
Xbox hardware revenue decreased 16%, mainly due to lower prices of Xbox One consoles sold and a decline in Xbox 360 console volume, offset in part by higher Xbox One console volume than prev. year.

YEAR 2017
Xbox hardware revenue decreased 21%, later it claims 16% ...
Xbox hardware revenue decreased 16%, mainly due to lower prices of Xbox One consoles sold and a decline in Xbox 360 console volume, offset in part by higher Xbox One console volume. Software revenue increased 11%

Xbox One est.
2013
3million during xmas
2014 -22%
shipped close to 10 million to retailers nov. 2014
11.7 million sold xbox consoles, around 7 million-ish Xbox One shipped to retailers
2015 -6%
12.1 million sold xbox consoles, less 360s more Xbox Ones. More than 7million shipped to retailers
2016 -16% , less 360s, more Xbox Ones. how much tough?
16% less than 12.1 mill. = 10.16million shipped to retailers
2017 -16 or -21% (report is contradicting)
again less 360s, more Xbox Ones, 21% less than 10.16mill. = 8million shipped to retailers
2018 -21% compared to 2017
Gaming revenue decreased slightly, primarily due to lower Xbox hardware revenue, offset in part by higher revenue from Xbox software and services. Xbox hardware revenue decreased 21%, mainly due to lower prices of consoles sold and a decline in volume of consoles sold. Xbox software and services revenue increased 11%, driven by a higher volume of Xbox Live transactions and revenue per transaction.
21% less of 8mill. = 6.32 million shipped to retailers
2019 -13%
Gaming revenue increased $1.0 billion or 10%, driven by Xbox software and services growth of 19%, primarily due to third-party title strength and subscriptions growth, offset in part by a decline in Xbox hardware of 13% primarily due to a decrease in volume of consoles sold.
13% less of 6.32mill. = 5.40 million shipped to retailers

2013 to 2019 xbox consoles shipped&sold
estimated 53.68mill.
IF 80% are XB1 = 42.944mill.
IF 90% are XB1 = 48.312mill.
IF 65% are XB1 = 34.892mill.
ratio of 10, max. 500mill. software sales
Phil Spencer said something of wishing to reach 70mill. software sales withe help of Xbox One x (2017/18). Means they were selling below that til 2017.

6 x 70 = 420 mill. software sales.

Since this generation microsoft no longer communicate the sales numbers of the xbox one.

We just know last year Xbox One sold 46.9 million from CNBC estimation.

 

[Evilms]

 

[it_wasn't_me]

Almost combined revenue. LOL