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PS Phone to launch in Feb 2011

Playstation buttons = Playstation branding

It doesn't need to have the logo (even though it absolutely will within the UI). I'm really kind of surprised that people think SCE is not heavily involved in this. It would be really stupid of Sony not to have have a multitude of products that play "psp2" titles. It's a big opportunity to get ahead of the curve a bit. We're not talking about huge, power hungry hardware like home consoles here.
 
H_Prestige said:
I'm really kind of surprised that people think SCE is not heavily involved in this. It would be really stupid of Sony not to have have a multitude of products that play "psp2" titles.

But... this device doesn't play PSP2 titles. :lol
 
charlequin said:
But... this device doesn't play PSP2 titles. :lol

At this point, nobody knows what specs the real psp2 has, or even what this phone has inside. We have a lot of rumors, but they are often contradictory or just flat out nonsense.
 
H_Prestige said:
At this point, nobody knows what specs the real psp2 has, or even what this phone has inside. We have a lot of rumors, but they are often contradictory or just flat out nonsense.

On the contrary, the rumors we've had to date have been extremely consistent:

PSP2:

  • Devkits in numerous developers' hands and have been since relatively early in 2010.
  • Powerful system with a high-resolution screen that suffers from potential overheating issues.
  • System will eliminate the UMD for cartridge-style storage like the DS/3DS.
  • Full complement of PSP controls, plus dual analog nubs and touch.
  • Continues the PSP legacy of delivering console-style gaming on a handheld device and will be supported by the same type of developers who supported the original PSP.
  • Is not at all close to release and will be revealed to the world in January or later.

Playstation Button Phone:

  • Has Sony Ericsson branding prominently on the system (and will reportedly be sold under the Xperia name); uses the Playstation buttons but does not feature the PS logo or Playstation name on its body (or reportedly in any of its external branding.)
  • Runs a relatively stock version of Android as its native OS and has standard Android buttons on the outside.
  • Exists in a near-final production state, with hardware that fits in a small slider-phone form factor -- which pretty much guarantees it's not the same as the running-hot PSP2.
  • Will be revealed at a Sony Ericsson event in December.
  • Will reportedly not run PSP software, PSOne games from PSN, or PSP2 software, but instead will run Android-native games developed specifically for the system.
  • Instead of full-price, large-scale titles, will target sub-$10 digital software (i.e. the sort of things that sell on the App Store.)
  • Is intended to play on the brand reputation of the Playstation brand but definitely not positioned as a piece of the "Playstation family" -- it's a SE product intended to attack a specific part of the smartphone market and doesn't have to do with any long-term planning in terms of positioning in the handheld gaming space.

Trying to say "oh, well, we don't know what's going on with anything, this could still be the PSP2!" has to involve extremely selective reading. The rumors we've been receiving over the last six months are actually surprisingly coherent and consistent with one another -- they're just also consistent with a status quo in which two different and largely unrelated mobile products are coming out from Sony over the next year.
 

Totobeni

An blind dancing ho
charlequin said:
Playstation Button Phone:

  • Has Sony Ericsson branding prominently on the system (and will reportedly be sold under the Xperia name); uses the Playstation buttons but does not feature the PS logo or Playstation name on its body (or reportedly in any of its external branding.)


  • interesting ,since I think SE doing the "extra famous Sony brand" thing on their phones mainly as extra sale point..I mean

    im_19.jpg
    im_07.jpg

    W902-main.jpg


    Bravia Logo , Walkman logo , Cyber-Shot logo ,they are sometimes bigger than the SE logo ( also I guess Vaio brand is next :lol).


    so I just think it will be pointless for them to not have huge ass "Playstation" logo on it , especially if they want to sell some cell phones versions of famous Playstation IPs on it.
 

seady

Member
How dumb of them for not tie this with the PSP.
If they don't do this then why not just leave everything to the Android market place?
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
charlequin said:
[*]Is intended to play on the brand reputation of the Playstation brand but definitely not positioned as a piece of the "Playstation family" -- it's a SE product intended to attack a specific part of the smartphone market and doesn't have to do with any long-term planning in terms of positioning in the handheld gaming space.

If there was no formal relationship to 'Playstation' it would not be allowed carry Playstation livery. How many times do you think they'll say 'Playstation' at this December event, if it's actually happening? You can't have a 'is it or isn't it' situation. The interface tells us it will be.

Second, the device is SE, but the platform I think is a different matter. In fact, in terms of what we've heard from the horse's mouth and not just from fuzzy qualified rumours, there's every indication that SE is not managing the platform, that others at 'Sony' are taking responsibility for that.

'Sony' there is most likely SCE, since they're the ones at Sony with the knowledge and experience Nordberg talks about. That suggests two possibilities - the platform will be related to a past or future SCE platform, or will be a new platform on its own. I have my doubts SCE would launch two new completely unrelated mobile platforms within months of each other - that seems kind of incredible in the most literal sense. Do you think it is more likely Sony would do this vs linking the effort to something they've already got on the boil in a past or future platform?

The only actual really 'new' thing in the OP's report is the bit about pricing. If true it wouldn't be in keeping with what we'd expect of main PSP2 games, but it might be in keeping with other platforms or sub-platforms. And it should be noted they don't sound entirely certain about that point - many of the points indeed are qualified with 'reportedly', 'may' etc.
 
seady said:
How dumb of them for not tie this with the PSP.
If they don't do this then why not just leave everything to the Android market place?
Because Stringer & Co. have proved to be incredibly incompetent in harnessing actual collaboration and synergies within the company.
 
gofreak said:
If there was no formal relationship to 'Playstation' it would not be allowed carry Playstation livery.

"Allowed"? That's a really bizarre word to apply here. It's not really like Sony Computer Entertainment and Sony Ericsson are two different companies. SE consistently utilizes various elements of other Sony brands in its phones, not to indicate that the product in question is perfectly aligned with whatever brand values that said name carries in other fields, but simply to create a unified "Sony" feel and branding experience for these products. (Whether that's a good idea or not is another question, but it's unquestionably something that SE does.) I'm sure that SE has never had to get any kind of top-to-bottom buy-in from the people who do portable music players at Sony before being "allowed" to use the Walkman brand, and similarly I'm sure the process to use the PS buttons was not particularly difficult even if SCE isn't really much involved in this device.

Really, just using the buttons is actually a pretty good way to only mildly leverage the brand strength here. If you're selling a gaming phone that isn't meant to really be part of your dedicated gaming business, you don't want to call it a "Playstation" since that both creates a specific (potentially inaccurate) idea of what the product is and ties its success in closely with the rest of the family, potentially tainting other products by association if it fails. But you still want to make your phone attractive to the people you are selling it to. Using the PS buttons is a good way to add a touch of positive familiarity, to make the device "feel" comfortable and like a "real" gaming device to the people who pick it up, without actually making it part of SCE's overall strategic direction.

You can't have a 'is it or isn't it' situation.

Sure you can. Make a phone with Playstation buttons. Don't call it a Playstation or put the Playstation brand on it. Bam, done. Pretty easy. :lol

I have my doubts SCE would launch two new completely unrelated mobile platforms within months of each other - that seems kind of incredible in the most literal sense.

Right, because your assumption is that Sony will be operating with maximal strategic efficiency here, and that's almost always a terrible assumption to make about big electronics companies or gaming companies. We have three gaming platform-holders right now, and all three of them have made multiple glaring, obvious mistakes in their platform management, all three of them at least occasionally creating problems for themselves by releasing sets of products that compete with one another or divide the market suboptimally. The only people who actually manage their product line with the ruthless efficiency needed to completely eliminate these redundancies and conflicts are Apple, and the fact that they can do that effectively is one of the huge competitive advantages that puts them on top of the heap.

Also, you're still assuming that the PSP2 is going to be a phone when we have basically no firm indication of that -- the rumors about it consistently position it as a traditional handheld gaming device intended to compete primarily with the 3DS. If this Xperia thing is a phone but the PSP2 is just a handheld, it means a lot of irritation for enthusiasts who were waiting for a hybrid product but much less in the way of actual market confusion when the devices are on sale.

The only actual really 'new' thing in the OP's report is the bit about pricing.

Both parts of which actively support what I and several others have been saying for months now: that there are two different things going on here. One of them is about clawing out marketshare in the crowded Android smartphone market by doing things that make sense in the mobile market while the other is about competing in the handheld gaming market by doing things that make sense in the handheld market. Inasmuch as there's confusion between them, it's because of suboptimal timing (on both products, really) and the fact that there's tons of chatter about a ZOMG handheld/phone hybrid despite the difficulty of integrating those business models (and the fact that nobody in either space is so far actually trying to bridge that gap.)
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
charlequin -

So to clarify, you do think it's more likely SCE will launch two entirely disjoint new mobile platforms next year instead of this phone having a relationship to one or other of their existing or future platforms?

And you're right about large electronic companies often having redundancy across their product lines, where their right hand doesn't know what its left is doing and they end up doing the same thing in different ways. But that's not the proposition I put to you - I'm talking about SCE, not Sony in broad. It seems fairly clear SCE will have responsibility for this phone platform, whatever it is.

Re. pricing, I acknowledged that it didn't support the notion of PSP2 compliance, at least not with the 'main' line of games, if it's true. My points here were otherwise not specifically about PSP2 but a relationship to 'existing or future' SCE platforms.

I also should say that I very much disagree that Playstation livery will be put on a device supporting a SCE managed platform but be somehow disassociated from 'Playstation' or won't be formally considered a Playstation device, or of a Playstation platform. I think it's reasonably clear that SE is not being given a logo to play with here and that's it as with walkman or bravia or cybershot or whatever.
 
gofreak said:
So to clarify, you do think it's more likely SCE will launch two entirely disjoint new mobile platforms next year instead of this phone having a relationship to one or other of their existing or future platforms?

I rank the possibilities basically something like this:

VERY LIKELY: There's an Xperia phone with Playstation buttons. It plays games on Android and isn't really "a Playstation." There's also a PSP2. It's a handheld gaming device that you can't buy with a phone built in. It competes with the 3DS.

LESS LIKELY: There's the Xperia phone. There's also the PSP2 which is a handheld gaming device but it has an SKU that works as a cellphone. There's some potential distinguished

EXTREMELY UNLIKELY: The PSP2 is a gaming handheld platform that'll be released as a standalone device but also have a variety of other devices that include it. This phone is one phone device of several that includes that platform.

EVEN MORE UNLIKELY: This phone isn't a PSP2 but it's part of some kind of weird "subplatform" to the real PSP2 which will also eventually run Android etc.

..........

TOTALLY IMPLAUSIBLE: Sony is launching their own insanely elaborate new platform where PSP2 isn't a device, it's a whole realm of products like standalone players and phones and tablets and they all run this unified PSP2 software system based on Sony hardware but they also all have Android and they run two operating systems and it switches between them on the fly and I guess while you're playing God of War you can't get a phone call?


I also should say that I very much disagree that Playstation livery will be put on a device supporting a SCE managed platform but be somehow disassociated from 'Playstation' or won't be formally considered a Playstation device, or of a Playstation platform.

If the device in question's being released as an "Xperia" brand phone, then it's not a Playstation.

Look at this from a strategic standpoint. SE has a very strong reason to produce a gaming-oriented (in the iPhone, sub-$10, semi-disposable-experiences sense) phone: Android sucks at gaming but people like phone gaming, so a good gaming phone plus even a small amount of decent to good software might be enough to carve out a new niche in the brutal smartphone market. If you're in charge of SE, and you want to push this strategy, it makes sense to leverage every resource you can. You'll want to use as many elements of Playstation branding as you can, even if SCE doesn't want to hand over the actual "Playstation" name. You might even get SCE to help you by providing some games and structural guidance, even if from SCE's perspective this is a minor side project to their real work of developing the PSP2.

All that makes much more sense from a localized perspective (even if it does introduce a few potential top-level confusion problems) than the idea that SCE are full-in gung-ho on this project. Having a really heavily supported phone platform as a third pillar would be kind of crazy and have very little strategic benefit for SCE, but devoting a relatively small number of resources to assisting SE break into another niche in the smartphone market might make sense purely on an intra-company cooperation level even if it has nothing to do with the overall direction and strategy of the Playstation brand.

Again, this all assumes that SCE is looking to make a dedicated gaming device as the PSP2 and not a phone that kind of doubles as a gaming device, but that would really only make sense:

  • There's no actual demonstrated market for a hybrid device yet and no such products announced by anybody.
  • Building the business model for a system that profits off of software but comes in phone and non-phone models upfront is going to be way, way harder (maybe almost impossible) compared to creating a successful non-phone system and then launching a phone iteration of it down the road after some die shrinks and after its success and software library make such a phone more desirable.
  • SCE has no experience making phones and all their expanded-use efforts with PSP were dramatically less successful than their core gaming efforts (where despite problems, they ultimately delivered a pretty good system and a lot of compelling software)
  • The smartphone market is hella crowded and at this stage open to competition almost solely via model iteration on Android (and maybe WinPhone if that actually takes off somehow) and dominated by Apple, basically the most successful and consistent company in tech over the last five years -- while portable gaming has only one other player in it, Nintendo, who are very good at what they do but have made a number of mistakes over the years and have in particular positioned the 3DS in a way that's open to a few different assaults.
 

JimiNutz

Banned
As far as the games/software go this could nicely supplement the experience that the PSP2 is supposedly going to offer.
From the rumours so far PSP2 is again going to go for 'console experience' games/ports on a handheld.

This PSPhone could be a better platform for more quirky games like Papaton or LocoRoco, games that may not have such a place on the PSP2. It could also be a portable platform for more PSN type games.
I think the two could supplement each other well...
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
charlequin -

There's counter points that can be made to virtually every issue you've raised there, but in the interest of brevity, just to hone in on the nature of what you think this is...

...do you think the games for this are 'ordinary Android' applications? Do you think the platform is really just a framework that adds some extra functionality to these games when run on this phone, for example?

...or do you think this is its own distinct software platform?

If the former, where's the revenue for Sony outside of this device? Would the userbase on this device be substantial enough to warrant developers including support for this framework in their Android games? And why would Nordberg be talking about licensing issues with game publishers etc?

If the latter, if it's various shades of unlikely that there's any relationship to any existing or upcoming Playstation platform - i.e. if it will stand entirely on its own two feet in the context of this device - how many units do you think SE will have to sell of this device to support such a platform? Is it realistic a single SKU in SE's portfolio could support its own software ecosystem?

IMO, the possibilities are as I outlined on the previous page. That includes your suggestion, but I think at the very least it's more likely there's a link to one or other of the Playstation platforms - be it PSX, PSP or PSP minis, or PSP2 or PSP2 minis. But the above questions are what I'm really curious about if that's not the case. Everything else we could argue in circles in, and that seems pointless if we're only a couple of months at most from knowing what this is all about.
 

seady

Member
Operations said:
Because Stringer & Co. have proved to be incredibly incompetent in harnessing actual collaboration and synergies within the company.

It's like the Sony Entertainment branch is asking Sony Ericsson branch "we want to put the PSP brand into your phones and so the two branch can excel in the market". And then Sony Ericsson says "the PSP has bad rep, we will only take it if you give us the Playstation name alone. We don't give a damn about the 'game' part of the PSP and we don't need the PSP games".
 
gofreak said:
...do you think the games for this are 'ordinary Android' applications?

Yep. (One of the links we've seen in the past couple days said that it'd basically be Android apps sold exclusively on a marketplace specific to this phone.)

Do you think the platform is really just a framework that adds some extra functionality to these games when run on this phone, for example?

Yep.

If the former, where's the revenue for Sony outside of this device?

Errr... the idea is to sell phones. The way you make money on phones is selling phone hardware.

If the game software really is sold through a custom marketplace, then maybe there's some extra revenue from that. But again, if you're in the phone business, the way you make money is selling people phones. It's not like gaming where your goal is to move lots of software; you want to be profiting at every individual sale.

If there's a "platform" here, it's not really intended to be something like PSN where there's lots of expenditure on building the platform, lots of development poured into it, etc. At most it's maybe like Apple's Game Center where there's a thin API that lets you do basic friendlist/leaderboard/achievement-type functionality.

Would the userbase on this device be substantial enough to warrant developers including support for this framework in their Android games?

There basically aren't Android games. What you'd really be looking at here is (more optimistically) whether you could get people to add Android ports of games that would otherwise be iPhone-exclusive or (more cynically) SE not caring whether it gets any software support since their goal is to profit on the hardware and most people who buy it will just be buying it to have a phone that has a real D-pad so they can actually use all the emulators on the Android marketplace with good controls.

But again, I think the issue here is you're trying to graft SCE-style business models onto a smartphone here when the smartphone market is very different. If you're not a platform-holder (Apple, Google, or Microsoft) or a network provider (Verizon, AT&T, etc.) pretty much the entirety of your goal in the smartphone market is to make an individual device that's desirable, hook it into a good network provider co-promotion deal, and then make as much money as you can selling units of it during the year or so that it's still current.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
charlequin said:
There basically aren't Android games. What you'd really be looking at here is (more optimistically) whether you could get people to add Android ports of games that would otherwise be iPhone-exclusive or (more cynically) SE not caring whether it gets any software support since their goal is to profit on the hardware and most people who buy it will just be buying it to have a phone that has a real D-pad so they can actually use all the emulators on the Android marketplace with good controls.
I suspect it is the latter with perhaps some token launch support from SCE and that's why this is being branded as an Xperia phone instead of a PlayStation phone, since it's not actually going to get real SCE or third party support, and thus Sony doesn't want it harming the PlayStation name.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
charlequin -

Well between the two options, at least you went with most logical one :) There has to be a dependency on another platform at least, be it Android or Playstation, because I think we all agree a single SE SKU won't support a software platform on its own.

Fair enough about selling phones vs selling software, but - and I know you disagree on this - I don't know if SCE would allow their 'stuff' to be used to sell phones on the basis that it'll be a good d-pad for emulators or software that they won't profit from. Interally there was resistance to SE being allowed to use the Playstation brand because of fears of diluting said brand, and that kind of approach would precisely risk that outcome. Surely SCE would want to find a point of leverage here to support their own business and make it win-win, rather than really just a win for SE?

A light framework like that, I'm also not sure why there'd be much issue about publisher licensing and such per Nordberg's comment. They could (and should) in a case like that just release the thing for free and make it generally available to any developer without needing SCE's kind of expertise in publisher relations. Yet Nordberg thinks they need that...

I also don't know how it jives with Peter Dille's comments earlier in the year, when asked about Playstation and mobile devices and whether the brand could be extended to other devices (when he was interviewed just after the first Playstation phone rumours). He said:

"Our strategy is to maintain the PlayStation brand on Sony devices and provide experiences that are exclusive and proprietary."

On a side note, I think the reference to Sony devices vs 'SCE devices' was somewhat telling at the time but more importantly to my point is the second bit. Now we can perhaps argue that playstation d-pads and playstation buttons on regular Android games or some plugged-in extra functionality from a light software framework constitutes a 'exclusive experience', but I think that is kind of tenuous. It's not remotely the same kind of proprietariness and exclusivity that Playstation strategy has hitherto dealt with.

(I know what you're going to say - 'this isn't going to be 'Playstation''! But Dille is clearly accomodating the possibility of the Playstation brand on Sony devices in general in his comment and the strategy that would surround that.)

It also doesn't jive with various other parts of other rumours (like Sony showing games like LBP on the device) - unless SCE is going to make Android games - but I guess I won't put too much stock into more peripheral/uncorroborated parts of different rumour stories.

I don't know, we'll see. But SCE has really nothing to gain in the scenario suggested, and potentially more to lose.
 
Shouldn't Sony make the PS Phone fully compatible with the PSP 2 to maximize the strength of a potential Sony phone? Just make the PS Phone a PSP 2 with added phone circuitry.

If there isn't any compelling reason to pick the PS Phone over the iPhone or other android devices, the thing isn't going to sell at all. I am not sure having games at just PSP levels will cut it.
 

Sipowicz

Banned
gofreak said:
So to clarify, you do think it's more likely SCE will launch two entirely disjoint new mobile platforms next year instead of this phone having a relationship to one or other of their existing or future platforms?


it's been obvious from the start that the PSP2 and PSPhone are pretty different. look at the pictures for fuck's sake

PSP 2
-two little analogues on the front
-a large regular tocuhpad on the back, that is easily accessible when open

PSP
-a little rectangular touchpad on the front
-a possible touch screen on the front that is practically useless when the device is open

there's no reason to replace the analogues on the PSP phone as they're tiny anyway, and the back touch pad on the back of the PSP2 is pretty different from a tocuh screen on the front. seriously, what logic would there be for making two different control schemes for devices that run the same games?

sony haven't proven themselves to be the most competent company in recent years, but even they're not that incompetent
 
I don't see how SCE are going to manage:

PS3 (and PS4 development)
PSP2 launch and games development
Playstation Move as a platform
Playstation Home
Playstation Network
Playstation Phone

I thought they managed PSP, PS3, PSN and Home badly. They've turned it around, but chucking more shit on the fire won't help.
 

Sipowicz

Banned
Galvanise_ said:
I thought they managed PSP, PS3, PSN and Home badly. They've turned it around, but chucking more shit on the fire won't help.

they've turned home around? i didn't even know theys till had it
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Galvanise_ said:
I don't see how SCE are going to manage:

PS3 (and PS4 development)
PSP2 launch and games development
Playstation Move as a platform
Playstation Home
Playstation Network
Playstation Phone

I thought they managed PSP, PS3, PSN and Home badly. They've turned it around, but chucking more shit on the fire won't help.
I imagine the answer is that they will largely ignore Home and this phone, and continue to get third parties and indies for most of their PSN output, since their major studios haven't been releasing PSN games in ages.

I imagine most of their forward going Move support will also just be including it in their existing line-up and using the people they were using for things like Singstar, Buzz, and EyePet to make their more casual Move games.

The only major question I have is where their PSP2 support is going to come from.
 
Sipowicz said:
they've turned home around? i didn't even know theys till had it

It is a much better service now, and Sony are raking in the cash judging by the fact that every time I visit, everyone is wearing a paid for outfit. I recommend taking a look in there at the very least. There are some decent games to play in there. I heard recently that they've increased their investment in the platform.

Would be better if they had Home unlock DLC for games and more content for Home unlock from retail games.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Sipowicz said:
sony haven't proven themselves to be the most competent company in recent years, but even they're not that incompetent

I'll not deny that some games or applications might 'play' more ideally with one or other of the interfaces, but as I said to you before in another thread, with some fairly reasonable/practical rules about usage in the interface specification you could have functional equivalence between the two. An example of one rule you'd want here would, for example, be to limit the simultaneous use of front face buttons with the back touchpad to one button (this would map to a shoulder button and the front touchpad on the phone). Or rules about how many analog sticks an app can use simultaneously with the touchpad. Stuff like that. With such rules you could guarantee anything designed to this spec would be playable on either device, even if some games have a better 'feel' on one device vs the other. So I don't think these differences in arrangement inherently rules out the idea that they might support the same software.

But let's put all that aside. In this thread, and in the quote you reply to specifically even, I'm making the more general case argument for a relationship between this device and one or other of SCE's existing or future platforms.
 

Sipowicz

Banned
Galvanise_ said:
It is a much better service now, and Sony are raking in the cash judging by the fact that every time I visit, everyone is wearing a paid for outfit. I recommend taking a look in there at the very least. There are some decent games to play in there. I heard recently that they've increased their investment in the platform.
.

what do you actually do in it? i remember they were bringing it to the PSP at some point so i was curious to try it out

gofreak said:
I'll not deny that some games or applications might 'play' more ideally with one or other of the interfaces, but as I said to you before in another thread, with some fairly reasonable/practical rules about usage in the interface specification you could have functional equivalence between the two. An example of one rule you'd want here would, for example, be to limit the simultaneous use of front face buttons with the back touchpad to one button (this would map to a shoulder button and the front touchpad on the phone). Or rules about how many analog sticks an app can use simultaneously with the touchpad. Stuff like that. With such rules you could guarantee anything designed to this spec would be playable on either device, even if some games have a better 'feel' on one device vs the other. So I don't think these differences in arrangement inherently rules out the idea that they might support the same software.


aye, but why would you do any of that?

the reason that the PSP2 back touchpad sounds so good is that you can use it while playing games with the normal controls. it's not either/or it's an additional, more accurate way to control games. something the 3DS or the PSPhone dont have

the little touchpad on the PSPhone meanwhile sounds unusable. the one on my laptop is bigger and even that's quite hard to use. i fail to understand how a tiny one like that is going to allow you to control one thing effectively never mind two. it also seems to be a very poor subsititue for two analogues. imagine controlling rathcet and clank with a little touchpad
 

yurinka

Member
I bet it will support:
-Android games
-PS1 games
-Minis
-PS Phone + PS Pad exclusive games

And it won't support:
-PS2 games
-PSP games
-PSP2 games
 
Sipowicz said:
what do you actually do in it? i remember they were bringing it to the PSP at some point so i was curious to try it out

Playstation Room was cancelled or put on hold if I remember correctly. I think it'll be a PSP2 thing, especially if the PSP2 is always web connected. Graphics will be better too.

Home is a blend of socialising/gaming now. Some spaces are outright gaming spaces like the SodiumOne game which has a microtransaction model and is very popular. There is also a rather good golf game called Dragon's Green. SodiumOne is so successufl that the developers are making a sequel. I think it has 1,000,000 paying users.

The Audi space has games inside. Vertical Run is a WipEout-esque game where you have to get as far as you can and the best users get added to the leaderboards.

I'm addicted to Robo-goalie (a Penalty shootout game) based in one of the two shopping centres.
 

Lonely1

Unconfirmed Member
gofreak: I believe the licenses issue they were talking about are due to SE wanting (some of) the PSX library in the device. It would be an easy, trivial really, way to bulk up significantly the software library for this device. But they need the software rights to do so.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Sipowicz said:
aye, but why would you do any of that?

the reason that the PSP2 back touchpad sounds so good is that you can use it while playing games with the normal controls. it's not either/or it's an additional, more accurate way to control games. something the 3DS or the PSPhone dont have

It's an additional even with some restrictions. Some are mandated simply by physical dexterity anyway, or practicality. For example, I cannot think it anything but completely pointless or disorientating to try and use two analog sticks and the trackpad simultaneously - controlling 3 vectors of motion simultaneously. It's like the case for putting an analog stick on the move controller - a setup that would require the user to control two sticks and the touchpad simultaneously would similarly be just too confusing. Something like that just isn't practical anyway, so mandating a developer doesn't do that - only uses one stick with the touchpad simultaneously - isn't exactly a big loss.

Actually, a simple rule they could use to keep things usable on both, I think, would be to simply say that the same limitations that already apply to a second analog stick apply to the touchpad - e.g. with the second stick, you don't ever simultaneously require the user to have a finger on more than one button with their right hand. You only ever have simultaneous use of it with one other stick. etc. etc. The same rules could apply to the touchpad, it would be easy for devs to understand that, and it would make the phone layout compliant. And it wouldn't be detrimental to the kind of advantages and use cases we've discussed...like better camera control in FPS. With that kind of rule-set you are no worse off from a button access POV as you are when you use dual analog, and you still have the better control the pad could give.*

The point about using the touchpad to mimic dual analog functionality is fair enough. But if anything it only raises more questions about why they're doing that with a trackpad...it would surely be more straightforward to put in two nubs. Why have the trackpad? I wonder... (and I digress terribly :p)


* actually, it strikes me as I type this, that the layout in the PSP2 shot we saw would make it quite uncomfortable to use two sticks and the touchpad simultaneously, for example. They've deliberately put the right side buttons in a bottom position to accommodate comfortable touchpad access while keeping a thumb over those buttons...controlling it with your hand holding the machine to use the second stick would be a lot less comfortable. Maybe it's designed like this because they know the user will never have to do that? Anyway...just thinking out loud...


Lonely1 said:
gofreak: I believe the licenses issue they were talking about are due to SE wanting (some of) the PSX library in the device. It would be an easy, trivial really, way to bulk up significantly the software library for this device. But they need the software rights to do so.

That's a possibility. And from the point of view of my argument in this thread, it is an improvement on the other situation, it does bring in a link to a past platform at least, and a 'win' for SCE (even if a far more limited one than other possibilities could bring).
 
Why are people thinking this thing will play PS1 games? They don't hold up at all graphically or in performance, playing them on a phone type device seem really unattractive to me.

I really don't know what can they bring to the smartphone market but I hope it's something that separates them from the rest and the Playstation branding is not just something to grab attention. I was thinking better controls than the competition (analog nub and buttons), so something like the psp go but with a more phone like size. But, if I think of a product like that I just don't know why would they release a psp2.
 
gofreak said:
Well between the two options, at least you went with most logical one :) There has to be a dependency on another platform at least, be it Android or Playstation, because I think we all agree a single SE SKU won't support a software platform on its own.

The prototype we saw is definitely an Android phone, it's got the Android home button row and everythng.

bytesized said:
Why are people thinking this thing will play PS1 games?

Well, it'd be easy to do -- you can download PSX emulators on Android phones right now. :lol
 
charlequin said:
The prototype we saw is definitely an Android phone, it's got the Android home button row and everythng.



Well, it'd be easy to do -- you can download PSX emulators on Android phones right now. :lol

really? and they have to be played with touchscreen controls?
 
bytesized said:
really? and they have to be played with touchscreen controls?

You have to press virtual buttons on the screen. I've never used it but it looks pretty shitty. At the very least this phone will be a great way to play ps1 classics.
 
H_Prestige said:
You have to press virtual buttons on the screen. I've never used it but it looks pretty shitty. At the very least this phone will be a great way to play ps1 classics.

I cannot see sony letting their own games be played like that. I think a PSP Go kinda phone is what's going to end up being and PSP2 will be like a big brother of that.
 
I keep swinging back and forth on this. Sometimes I think it'll work and other times I don't.

But it seems the most logical solution - which, given that this is Sony, is not necessarily tied to how likely it is - is that the PSP2 plays Z-system games, but not vice versa. The PSP2 will be sold on its technical power and multifunctional nature, and possibly its back panel touchpad. The phone will be a direct competitor to the iPhone.

I don't think it's the most crazy solution in the world. But the thing I'm most skeptical of is that there's a large enough market for $30-40 mobile games with high-end graphics/production values to justify Sony's investment in R&D, marketing and everything else that goes into launching and maintaining a new platform.
 

Takao

Banned
bytesized said:
I cannot see sony letting their own games be played like that. I think a PSP Go kinda phone is what's going to end up being and PSP2 will be like a big brother of that.

The PlayStation Android emulator obviously isn't something SCE approved. As for the phone, the design is basically that based off those leaked shots from before.
 

Batongen

Banned
Look, I used to work for SE as a consultant and they and SCE are completely different subsidiaries and are barely working together as a company. As some people have stated, it might be branded a "playstation" logo, but it is certainly not planned alongside SCE's PSP2 as something to break in the games/entertainment realm. SCE gives fuck all about SE and SE do the same about SCE.

If they somehow would pull this off as a joint project, I am willing to eat crow, but realistically it is not happening. I also fully expect this phone to be customized with SE's own Android UI, Timescape and Mediascape, and for it to be the first phone in their line to use Gingerbread and a successor to perhaps X10i. Anyone looking for an exciting new gaming device will be burned, but they might want to be labeled as the Android phone for games and an answer to Apple's reign in that perspective.
 
Batongen said:
Look, I used to work for SE as a consultant and they and SCE are completely different subsidiaries and are barely working together as a company. As some people have stated, it might be branded a "playstation" logo, but it is certainly not planned alongside SCE's PSP2 as something to break in the games/entertainment realm. SCE gives fuck all about SE and SE do the same about SCE.

If they somehow would pull this off as a joint project, I am willing to eat crow, but realistically it is not happening. I also fully expect this phone to be customized with SE's own Android UI, Timescape and Mediascape, and for it to be the first phone in their line to use Gingerbread and a successor to perhaps X10i. Anyone looking for an exciting new gaming device will be burned, but they might want to be labeled as the Android phone for games and an answer to Apple's reign in that perspective.

Couldn't possibly agree with this post more. The two devices have next to nothing in common in terms of joint development - as will be made resoundingly clear within the next 2 months.

The close to final PSP2 specs are well known inside the dev community and let's just say that a certain first-party PS3 title is up and running on the test kits that will surprise a lot of people. It's about as far removed from PS Phone as you can imagine.
 
MassiveAttack said:
Couldn't possibly agree with this post more. The two devices have next to nothing in common in terms of joint development - as will be made resoundingly clear within the next 2 months.

The close to final PSP2 specs are well known inside the dev community and let's just say that a certain first-party PS3 title is up and running on the test kits that will surprise a lot of people. It's about as far removed from PS Phone as you can imagine.

This is pretty bad, there's no point to that phone then. And Uncharted running on PSP2 won't surprise anybody.
 
MassiveAttack said:
Couldn't possibly agree with this post more. The two devices have next to nothing in common in terms of joint development - as will be made resoundingly clear within the next 2 months.

The close to final PSP2 specs are well known inside the dev community and let's just say that a certain first-party PS3 title is up and running on the test kits that will surprise a lot of people. It's about as far removed from PS Phone as you can imagine.

Oh shit, portable Gran Turismo!!!!!!!!
 

thcsquad

Member
AranhaHunter said:
This is pretty bad, there's no point to that phone then. And Uncharted running on PSP2 won't surprise anybody.

This comment is so gaf. There's no point to the phone from a gaf perspective, but it makes a lot of sense from a phone perspective.
 
thcsquad said:
This comment is so gaf. There's no point to the phone from a gaf perspective, but it makes a lot of sense from a phone perspective.

No it doesn't. It will flop. A 2nd gen snapdragon launching up against 4g capable dual core phones is laughable, game controls or not; and let's not forget that SE is likely to lag behind on android updates.
 

spwolf

Member
Batongen said:
Look, I used to work for SE as a consultant and they and SCE are completely different subsidiaries and are barely working together as a company. As some people have stated, it might be branded a "playstation" logo, but it is certainly not planned alongside SCE's PSP2 as something to break in the games/entertainment realm. SCE gives fuck all about SE and SE do the same about SCE.

If they somehow would pull this off as a joint project, I am willing to eat crow, but realistically it is not happening. I also fully expect this phone to be customized with SE's own Android UI, Timescape and Mediascape, and for it to be the first phone in their line to use Gingerbread and a successor to perhaps X10i. Anyone looking for an exciting new gaming device will be burned, but they might want to be labeled as the Android phone for games and an answer to Apple's reign in that perspective.

Few years ago Sony Music didnt want to license music to SCE, but that has changed a lot recently... now same team works on all of their customer hardware, which is quite the difference.

I would be quite surprised if PSP Phone and PSP2 had nothing in common at all.
 
Byakuya769 said:
No it doesn't. It will flop.

Indeed.

spwolf said:
Few years ago Sony Music didnt want to license music to SCE, but that has changed a lot recently... now same team works on all of their customer hardware, which is quite the difference.

I would be quite surprised if PSP Phone and PSP2 had nothing in common at all.

Singstar Community Manager Nina S. said in a comment on the blog a few months ago that it's not any easier to get music from SME to the singstore than it is getting music from Universal, Warner or EMI. If that was the case, the singstore would be full of Usher, Michael Jackson, Chris Brown, Kings of Leon, Justin Timberlake, etc... Stringer has improved it, but even he would tell you that SNE profit margins and synergy between sister companies is far from his original goal.
 
charlequin said:
On the contrary, the rumors we've had to date have been extremely consistent:

PSP2:

  • Devkits in numerous developers' hands and have been since relatively early in 2010.
  • Powerful system with a high-resolution screen that suffers from potential overheating issues.
  • System will eliminate the UMD for cartridge-style storage like the DS/3DS.
  • Full complement of PSP controls, plus dual analog nubs and touch.
  • Continues the PSP legacy of delivering console-style gaming on a handheld device and will be supported by the same type of developers who supported the original PSP.
  • Is not at all close to release and will be revealed to the world in January or later.

Playstation Button Phone:

  • Has Sony Ericsson branding prominently on the system (and will reportedly be sold under the Xperia name); uses the Playstation buttons but does not feature the PS logo or Playstation name on its body (or reportedly in any of its external branding.)
  • Runs a relatively stock version of Android as its native OS and has standard Android buttons on the outside.
  • Exists in a near-final production state, with hardware that fits in a small slider-phone form factor -- which pretty much guarantees it's not the same as the running-hot PSP2.
  • Will be revealed at a Sony Ericsson event in December.
  • Will reportedly not run PSP software, PSOne games from PSN, or PSP2 software, but instead will run Android-native games developed specifically for the system.
  • Instead of full-price, large-scale titles, will target sub-$10 digital software (i.e. the sort of things that sell on the App Store.)
  • Is intended to play on the brand reputation of the Playstation brand but definitely not positioned as a piece of the "Playstation family" -- it's a SE product intended to attack a specific part of the smartphone market and doesn't have to do with any long-term planning in terms of positioning in the handheld gaming space.

Trying to say "oh, well, we don't know what's going on with anything, this could still be the PSP2!" has to involve extremely selective reading. The rumors we've been receiving over the last six months are actually surprisingly coherent and consistent with one another -- they're just also consistent with a status quo in which two different and largely unrelated mobile products are coming out from Sony over the next year.

/thread.

great summary of current evidence and what we can realistically expect. i'm getting sick of the word playstation being tossed in there unwarranted.
 
AranhaHunter said:
This is pretty bad, there's no point to that phone then. And Uncharted running on PSP2 won't surprise anybody.

There is a definitely a point to the PS Phone and there is a definite link between the two in terms of hardware. The main difference will be how they are branded, marketed and sold.
 

Ponn

Banned
MassiveAttack said:
There is a definitely a point to the PS Phone and there is a definite link between the two in terms of hardware. The main difference will be how they are branded, marketed and sold.

Well, you'd be right on both counts if all the evidence we have so far points in the completely opposite direction you are going.

Seriously there is no point for this phone if it doesn't share PSP2 or hell even PSP architecture and doesn't even utilize the PSP software or PSN software out there. What possible reason could they give someone to choose this over an iphone? They missed their slim opportunity by not making the PSPGO a phone and this is just an abomination of very awful decison making going on at Sony.
 
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