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Pred: Microsoft may announce an Xbox Series S price cut to $269.99 at gamescom (links incl.)

yazenov

Member
I think you're not understanding what people were actually saying, it's not that hardware sales aren't important at all but probably for MS they are less important than the competition as Gamepass subscribers don't need Xbox hardware to access the subscription.

I would like to see the breakdown of PC Gamepass subscribers vs. console Gamepass subscribers. I think the great majority of those subscribers are from the consoles, hence why MS is so aggressive with the Xbox series S pricing. Unfortunately, we may never know since MS is so secretive with numbers for obvious reasons.

Still, doesn't change the fact that hardware sales don't matter was such an absurd statement. Every sale matters, no matter from where it comes, be it from consoles, PC, or other means. Sounds more like sour grapes from being outsold by the competition by a large margin ( more than 2x from their own mouths).
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?

leo-j

Member
Nah if anything a price increase, Sony discretely is selling ps5 for $549 now with there digital game bundle. And 2017 tech switch is selling for $349 with a 720p OLED screen.
 

DarkMage619

Report me if I continue to console war
Yeah, it makes sense that more hardware sales leads to software sales, MTX and increase subscriptions as more customers mean more potential income and revenue.

That's why everyone was laughing at the notion that hardware sales were not important when MS said so. Glad you're now seeing how absurd that statement was.
MS can do all the things you are talking about without selling hardware too. I don't think MS ever said selling hardware wasn't important only that they aren't forcing you to buy new hardware which is something no other platform holder is doing.
 

Schmick

Member
I would like to see the breakdown of PC Gamepass subscribers vs. console Gamepass subscribers. I think the great majority of those subscribers are from the consoles, hence why MS is so aggressive with the Xbox series S pricing. Unfortunately, we may never know since MS is so secretive with numbers for obvious reasons.

Still, doesn't change the fact that hardware sales don't matter was such an absurd statement. Every sale matters, no matter from where it comes, be it from consoles, PC, or other means. Sounds more like sour grapes from being outsold by the competition by a large margin ( more than 2x from their own mouths).
I don't think Phil ever said he doesn't care about Xbox sales. It's kinda weird that this point keeps coming up on GAF. In the past he said his focus is on building the 'Xbox Community', a community that is not solely built around a console but around console, PC, cloud and mobile.
 

Eddie-Griffin

Gold Member

Microsoft didn't even have their event yet, and I didn't say they would, but predicted they might since there's strong evidence that they may, especially when taking to account historical precedent.

But it could also not happen.

Is it though? If they are lowering the price, it clearly didn't meet their expectations, especially after the recent launch and the so-called "shortages".

There's more than one reason to lower the price. It's also nearly two years into the gen an we already knew ahead of time the S was the entry level hardware that would handle price cuts the best.

price cut already? At this rate its gonna be free by the end of the gen.

It may be the first time a home gaming console has reached the $99 price point since 2011.
 
I thought these were flying off the shelves?

Lol Man, they might as well give them away with Gamepass subs.
They have to selling pretty well though. The ps5 wins in revenue while the xbox wins in units sold. Probably means the units skew to series s a fair bit (or at least a little bit). So they must be selling decently
 

Topher

Gold Member
They have to selling pretty well though. The ps5 wins in revenue while the xbox wins in units sold.

That trend stopped the last couple of months in the US where PS5 had more units sold than Xbox. I'm guessing Xbox still leads in units sold YTD though.
 
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Eddie-Griffin

Gold Member
how about releasing a disk version of the S?

Hope you mean disc, I don't want any console using floppies lol.

Really the Xbox One X is similar to the Series S in power, so that would be the disc-based Series S. The problem is, assuming you can find a store that still carries stock of it since it's been discontented, it costs $200 more than the Series S at $500.

I don't think marginally weaker specs and a disc drive is worth a $200 premium.
 

Neo_game

Member
lol. Not sure why it needs a price cut. I hope we get the SS to SX ratio. Unbelievable if this is Microsoft main console this gen 🤦‍♂️
 

Riky

My little VRR pleasure pearl goes vrrrooommm.
Man a Series S at £199 in UK would be awesome, also a model with 1TB SSD for £250 would be nice too.

Original white version for £199 with 512gb SSD.

New black version for £249 with 1tb SSD.

That would be a good deal.
 

Wohc

Banned
lol. Not sure why it needs a price cut. I hope we get the SS to SX ratio. Unbelievable if this is Microsoft main console this gen 🤦‍♂️
Pretty sure they will sell more S than X. Why? If EA and so on stop making crossgen games, the casuals need a new console and i bet that most of them are going for the cheapest next gen console.
 

Jigsaah

Gold Member
Get the prices down? It's been two years, you're expecting a price drop in this environment? Highly unlikely. However I'm keeping my options open for a PS5 Pro. I do believe they will come out with one. Last Gen I went Xbox One X and left alone the PS4 Pro. This time I would switch it up if I buy a console at all.

If the price is higher than 500 then I'll opt to just upgrade my PC

Well that aged like spoiled milk. That was me yesterday.

I already have an Xbox Series X. I don't play it. Nice if true for those interested.
 

ReBurn

Gold Member
Were is the data to back that up? Has Xbox released the individual numbers for Series X and S sold?

If the Series S is selling so well why would they lower the price further when its already being sold at a discount at most stores?

Xbox isn't a charity, they are a business and there goal is to make money like any other business so they wouldn't lower the price unless they felt they had to do that.
It's simple. To enable software sales and Gamepass adoption. There's no charity to it. Loss leader pricing isn't exactly a new marketing tactic for video games.
 

Roxkis_ii

Member
IMO that is the best price for a brand new machine.

I've seen them dip under the $200 mark on the second hand market. Very tempting...
I just checked out Facebook market place, and holy crap, seen one for $185.

I wonder if a lot of people are just buying these as placeholder consoles.
 

Topher

Gold Member
Oh did it? I thought I read something recently about ms having it

Yeah, Xbox had a string of nine months (I think it was nine) selling more units while taking in less revenue, but that changed the last two. Switch still had more units sold. PS5 was second. Xbox third.
 
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DarkMage619

Report me if I continue to console war
I don't think Phil ever said he doesn't care about Xbox sales. It's kinda weird that this point keeps coming up on GAF. In the past he said his focus is on building the 'Xbox Community', a community that is not solely built around a console but around console, PC, cloud and mobile.
Should be pretty to provide a quote of Phil saying he doesn't care about hardware sales and that will give us the truth. I've never seen it.
 

Neo_game

Member
Pretty sure they will sell more S than X. Why? If EA and so on stop making crossgen games, the casuals need a new console and i bet that most of them are going for the cheapest next gen console.

There was a report last year SS outsells the SX but Microsoft are doing this themselves by making more SS than SX. One of the reason was due to chip shortage they can make SS than SX. PS5 is probably still going to outsell SS+SX, in fact PS5 to SX is already 2:1 ? I don't understand what they are going to achieve by selling more SS and then hide behind the numbers. Their target should to sell as much SX as possible and hopefully have mid gen refresh in few years time. They are not going to increase their core fanbase by selling SS to average joe.
 

twilo99

Member
I just checked out Facebook market place, and holy crap, seen one for $185.

I wonder if a lot of people are just buying these as placeholder consoles.

Oh yeah, until people can get the x

But yes, under $200 is great value and most of these can't really be in bad shape considering the timing.
 

lachesis

Member
In this day and age of inflation - or stagflation, or whatever you want to call it... seeing a price drop is actually pretty refreshing.
 

Eddie-Griffin

Gold Member
Should be pretty to provide a quote of Phil saying he doesn't care about hardware sales and that will give us the truth. I've never seen it.

Phils was directly referencing sales numbers specifically, which is why when the thread was made about the Microsoft CEO touting winning sales 3 quarters in a row or something, people kept thinking that Microsoft was turning back on their statement, but they still never gave any numbers.

There was a report last year SS outsells the SX but Microsoft are doing this themselves by making more SS than SX. One of the reason was due to chip shortage they can make SS than SX. PS5 is probably still going to outsell SS+SX, in fact PS5 to SX is already 2:1 ? I don't understand what they are going to achieve by selling more SS and then hide behind the numbers. Their target should to sell as much SX as possible and hopefully have mid gen refresh in few years time. They are not going to increase their core fanbase by selling SS to average joe.

For the only numbers we received from various countries, there's no proof that the XS is outselling the XX and old data suggest the opposite. The only recent data we got that's not outdated suggests that the SS is outselling the SX in the US and UK, and barely in Japan, but that's all the latest info we have.

I think that people will be surprised once stock is more plentiful that the Series X will probably be the bigger seller. The S will still sell millions they will cater to the parent or the gamer on a budget that doesn't want to overspend or who doesn't have a 4K TV.
 

Wohc

Banned
There was a report last year SS outsells the SX but Microsoft are doing this themselves by making more SS than SX. One of the reason was due to chip shortage they can make SS than SX. PS5 is probably still going to outsell SS+SX, in fact PS5 to SX is already 2:1 ? I don't understand what they are going to achieve by selling more SS and then hide behind the numbers. Their target should to sell as much SX as possible and hopefully have mid gen refresh in few years time. They are not going to increase their core fanbase by selling SS to average joe.
Their target is to sell as many subs as possible. PS5 outsells Series 3:1? MS doesn't give a shit as long as they achieve their Game Pass goals.
 

ReBurn

Gold Member
There was a report last year SS outsells the SX but Microsoft are doing this themselves by making more SS than SX. One of the reason was due to chip shortage they can make SS than SX. PS5 is probably still going to outsell SS+SX, in fact PS5 to SX is already 2:1 ? I don't understand what they are going to achieve by selling more SS and then hide behind the numbers. Their target should to sell as much SX as possible and hopefully have mid gen refresh in few years time. They are not going to increase their core fanbase by selling SS to average joe.
I think reality is exactly the opposite of what you think needs to happen. You're implying that selling more of the most powerful hardware is what needs to happen to grow a core fan base and enable success. But is that really true? Microsoft is buying a core fan base by purchasing Zenimax and Activision/Blizzard and enabling revenue generation by not requiring a console purchase to play their games. They want to make as much money as possible without relying on XSX hardware total.

Microsoft's strategy, as a software company, is to maximize software sales across the board. That's why they have two console SKU's, a streaming service, and also release their games day and date on PC. Having an ecosystem where software sales are limited by how many hardware units they can sell is limiting across the board. They know they won't sell as many consoles as Sony, so why try to fight there? Having a lower spec console that can play the same games as the higher spec console is a way to enable people who can't justify the cost of a PC or Series X to continue to participate in the ecosystem. Casual gamers as a group spend billions, so why not make the effort to capture them with a lower cost option? The day Series S can't play the same games as Series X is the day Series S becomes irrelevant.

You can see this playing out with Sony's strategy, too. Because of the supply chain limitations Sony have had to keep cross-gen alive longer than normal and keep base PS4 production going because it's been literally impossible to make enough PS5 consoles to meet demand. No doubt this is because it is difficult to recoup their investment in the games they're making with PS5 sales alone at this point. In addition to more cross-gen, they're improving their subscription and cloud offerings and they're expanding to PC gaming to broaden their revenue sources. Things that people on this forum claimed Sony would never need to do because they sell The most consoles. Why? Because it's becoming too risky to be in a situation where their success is directly bound to their ability to manufacture hardware. If they can't get parts due to a global shortage they can't produce consoles and if they can't produce consoles they can't hit their revenue targets. It's as obvious as risk models get.

So, to the chagrin of the hardcore console warriors, the focus on who sells the most units of the most powerful hardware is starting to become irrelevant outside of list wars. The goal of these companies is going to be to increase access to software through subscriptions, cloud, PC, etc. so they can extract as much revenue from the total market as possible. At the end of the day that's what they'll care about more than who sells more plastic boxes.
 

DarkMage619

Report me if I continue to console war
Phils was directly referencing sales numbers specifically, which is why when the thread was made about the Microsoft CEO touting winning sales 3 quarters in a row or something, people kept thinking that Microsoft was turning back on their statement, but they still never gave any numbers.
Still doesn't sound anything like 'we don't care about hardware sales'. I think that idea is a false narrative. They obviously want to sell Xboxes or else they wouldn't have made them. They just have multiple avenues to generate revenue outside of consoles and he wanted it to be known gamers had options.

I think reality is exactly the opposite of what you think needs to happen. You're implying that selling more of the most powerful hardware is what needs to happen to grow a core fan base and enable success. But is that really true? Microsoft is buying a core fan base by purchasing Zenimax and Activision/Blizzard and enabling revenue generation by not requiring a console purchase to play their games. They want to make as much money as possible without relying on XSX hardware total.

Microsoft's strategy, as a software company, is to maximize software sales across the board. That's why they have two console SKU's, a streaming service, and also release their games day and date on PC. Having an ecosystem where software sales are limited by how many hardware units they can sell is limiting across the board. They know they won't sell as many consoles as Sony, so why try to fight there? Having a lower spec console that can play the same games as the higher spec console is a way to enable people who can't justify the cost of a PC or Series X to continue to participate in the ecosystem. Casual gamers as a group spend billions, so why not make the effort to capture them with a lower cost option? The day Series S can't play the same games as Series X is the day Series S becomes irrelevant.

You can see this playing out with Sony's strategy, too. Because of the supply chain limitations Sony have had to keep cross-gen alive longer than normal and keep base PS4 production going because it's been literally impossible to make enough PS5 consoles to meet demand. No doubt this is because it is difficult to recoup their investment in the games they're making with PS5 sales alone at this point. In addition to more cross-gen, they're improving their subscription and cloud offerings and they're expanding to PC gaming to broaden their revenue sources. Things that people on this forum claimed Sony would never need to do because they sell The most consoles. Why? Because it's becoming too risky to be in a situation where their success is directly bound to their ability to manufacture hardware. If they can't get parts due to a global shortage they can't produce consoles and if they can't produce consoles they can't hit their revenue targets. It's as obvious as risk models get.

So, to the chagrin of the hardcore console warriors, the focus on who sells the most units of the most powerful hardware is starting to become irrelevant outside of list wars. The goal of these companies is going to be to increase access to software through subscriptions, cloud, PC, etc. so they can extract as much revenue from the total market as possible. At the end of the day that's what they'll care about more than who sells more plastic boxes.
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