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[killatopak]

Tell that to Nintendo

They aren’t getting the CODs, Battlefields, Assasin’s Creeds and RDR2 type of games.

 

[Vognerful]

Microsoft has lost a ton of money on Xbox, since it launched.

Forbes: Xbox lost Microsoft $4 billion (and counting)

Forbes takes stock of Microsoft and asks what the behemoth is gonna do about some of its woes. The biggest problem facing Microsoft is its size. At 60,000 employees and $40 billion in revenues, the company isn't as nimble as it once was, and newer products are not yet earning the company much...

www.engadget.com

Analyst: Microsoft losing $2 billion on Xbox annually

Hiding losses thanks to extremely profitable Android royalties Microsoft is losing billions of dollars on its Xbox business, Nomura analyst...

www.destructoid.com

Microsoft loses $1 billion for 360 repairs

"Three red rings" now covered by three-year warranty

www.gamesindustry.biz

Microsoft loses $400m on the Xbox One in just ten months

Microsoft spent $2.1 billion on the production and launching of the Xbox One console

www.independent.co.uk

Did people forgot all the money they dumped in a quiring those studios? Do they think they bought them from Xbox revenue?

 

[yurinka]

1. We don't know the size of the Lockart system nor what it will look like. However, considering how small and quiet the X1X is, I have no doubt they can make the Lockhart system fit in a similar size box.

If we look at official information or facts, it doesn't exist. It's all rumors.
In all the points I was talking about what is mentioned in the OP or linked video. In this case the size shown in the OP viddeo thumbnail image/video.

2. The cost would be high for the first year or so, but as the system is rumored to be all digital and the fact that they market Xbox GamePass as being an essential Xbox service, they may be willing to take the temporary loss (they can eat the 2 or so billion dollar loss and make it back easily with their services). They already have 10 million GP subscribers, and selling a cheap all-digital console that also provides a service that gives all Xbox games for a relatively low monthly price will be a surefire way to get more subs. Once those subs start paying full price they have a lot of extra revenue.

Being all digital removes only like $10 of the disc drive. Let's say $15 being generous and also removing stuff like nuts and bolts, or making the plastic case smaller or something like that. A Series X being sold at $499 it already would mean thay they are already selling it at a loss, and maybe in a few years in the future they would be able to be sell it at a profit, that would be realistic. But not to cut it until $200. It's too much. On top of that, even if Zen 2 and RDNA 2 may be capped, they still are new and expensive stuff: just because they use a slower clock won't cut their price by the half. And well, then there's the SSD which aren't cheap and their price shouldn't go down very fst.

And they have 10 million GP but many of them (we don't know how much of them) are paying $1 for 3 years. And we don't know how much of them will convert to a full normal priced subscription.

3. X1, X1S and X1SAD are all pretty much the same system other than a slightly boosted clockspeed on the S. The X1X is also very similar architecture wise and the fact that the games are being released on PC means the games will be inherently scalable in relation to graphics. Additionally, the Xbox first party studios will only be supporting the Xbox One family for the first year or so of Series X (basically finishing all games that started development on Xbox One) and again, since they have PC versions, it is not like the stress is that high anyway (the devkit Dante literally has modes for all Xbox systems and PC)

To develop for consoles it's more complicated than it seems. Sometimes even special editions or some consoles, that in theory are the same console with another case, or slim-like console revisions, that in theory are the same console but with cheaper components, have specific bugs that happen in this version and not in the other ones or viceversa. The more SKUs you throw to the mix, the more potential bugs may appear.

4. How would it hold back the "entire generation"? It will still have the same CPU, the same SSD, a similar amount of RAM and will support all the same GPU technology (RT, VRS, etc) the only main difference is that the GPU will be targeting a different resolution. Since graphics are inherently scalable (changing resolution, adjusting game settings, etc) as shown on PC, this will not affect game design in any meaningful way. It's just like on PC, if I want to game at 1080p, there is no reason for me to buy an RTX2080Ti, I would be much better off just getting an RTX2060 or 2070 if I wanted my build to last longer.

Having a way slower CPU and GPU means some stuff won't be able to be done even if having the same GPU tech, memory and SSD and running in a lower resolution. I mean, try putting 16GB of RAM and an SSD to a PC with one of the slowest possible CPU and DirectX 11 (XBO GPU family) card and try to run a top XBO game like RDR2. It won't, and if it does it will work awfully.

5. Unless you are a financial analyst or investor in Microsoft, I don't know why you are worried. I am absolutely certain that they are focusing on a long term plan (that they can absolutely afford) which is already beginning to work for them. They have 10 million Xbox Game Pass subscribers already, and they have not even gotten their consistent releases ready. It doesnt take much to see that their subs will rise as the Series X and Lockhart sell more (as Xbox markets it as essential for an Xbox owner) and for that plan to be effective they have to be willing to take a loss on hardware sales and to not see the fruits of their studio investments for a given period of time

I am not worried about them. I just say that I think they won't do this because it doesn't make sense in business terms and they are a company so they will want to get profit from the gaming division.

But they will be taking a loss at Game Pass (during 3 years), at the games putting them 'free' day one at Game Pass (the MS ones and the 3rd party ones they moneyhat to be there day one), at hardware selling Series X at $499 (I think this one they may turn it into a profit around mid or late gen) and buying studios, so I think it would make sense to on top of that to release a capped Series X SKU at $200.

 

[John Wick]

No console will be 399.
Not even the digital version.
500 is the base price.

How do you know 500 is the base price? Are you setting the prices?
If the normal PS5 is 500 then the digital edition will be about 50-100 cheaper and not 500. Sony will lose a bit of money knowing they can make that back from digital sales and subs.

 

[Jtibh]

How do you know 500 is the base price? Are you setting the prices?
If the normal PS5 is 500 then the digital edition will be about 50-100 cheaper and not 500. Sony will lose a bit of money knowing they can make that back from digital sales and subs.

Its 2020 my man.
You are chasing 7 year old prices.

 

[TheCrimsnFuckr]

If we look at official information or facts, it doesn't exist. It's all rumors.
In all the points I was talking about what is mentioned in the OP or linked video. In this case the size shown in the OP viddeo thumbnail image/video.


Being all digital removes only like $10 of the disc drive. Let's say $15 being generous and also removing stuff like nuts and bolts, or making the plastic case smaller or something like that. A Series X being sold at $499 it already would mean thay they are already selling it at a loss, and maybe in a few years in the future they would be able to be sell it at a profit, that would be realistic. But not to cut it until $200. It's too much. On top of that, even if Zen 2 and RDNA 2 may be capped, they still are new and expensive stuff: just because they use a slower clock won't cut their price by the half. And well, then there's the SSD which aren't cheap and their price shouldn't go down very fst.

And they have 10 million GP but many of them (we don't know how much of them) are paying $1 for 3 years. And we don't know how much of them will convert to a full normal priced subscription.


To develop for consoles it's more complicated than it seems. Sometimes even special editions or some consoles, that in theory are the same console with another case, or slim-like console revisions, that in theory are the same console but with cheaper components, have specific bugs that happen in this version and not in the other ones or viceversa. The more SKUs you throw to the mix, the more potential bugs may appear.


Having a way slower CPU and GPU means some stuff won't be able to be done even if having the same GPU tech, memory and SSD and running in a lower resolution. I mean, try putting 16GB of RAM and an SSD to a PC with one of the slowest possible CPU and DirectX 11 (XBO GPU family) card and try to run a top XBO game like RDR2. It won't, and if it does it will work awfully.


I am not worried about them. I just say that I think they won't do this because it doesn't make sense in business terms and they are a company so they will want to get profit from the gaming division.

But they will be taking a loss at Game Pass (during 3 years), at the games putting them 'free' day one at Game Pass (the MS ones and the 3rd party ones they moneyhat to be there day one), at hardware selling Series X at $499 (I think this one they may turn it into a profit around mid or late gen) and buying studios, so I think it would make sense to on top of that to release a capped Series X SKU at $200.

1. That's fair, I did not see that image, and I agree fan mockups are pointless and it won't be that small.

2. Being all digital will likely remove around $15-$20 from the purchasing price, but it also forces gamers to only buy from their store giving them a larger cut of revenue for every single game that a person buys on the console. And again, they will absolutely market the hell out of Game Pass with Lockhart hoping to sell the two together, and being all digital will further convince people to sign up for Game Pass.

Also, paying $1 for three years? You do realize that to do that people had to give Microsoft $180 for three years of gold and then converted it to Ultimate for $1. So following GAAP they would count $5 a month for every subscriber that did that. Come June 2022 when those three years of Ultimate expires for most people, they will then need to pay full price, so MS basically has until E3 2022 to impress with Game Pass and truly begin to make money. But even if every GP sub is subbed because of the gold conversion, that is still $50 million a month in revenues earned from Game Pass alone. Again, this is part of their investment into the future, and they have the numbers and we do not, but I trust they are making the right business call.

3. That's true, but it is a limited number of games and it still is not very different from developing a game for PC.

4. Who said anything about Lockhart having a way slower CPU? By all accounts, it is supposed to have the same 8c/16t Zen 2 CPU and the only thing that will likely be different is the clockspeed (it won't be decompressing as big of files, so will not need to be as fast) I expect it to be around 3-3.2Ghz which is not very far from the PS5's max CPU speed of 3.5Ghz. And again, you are comparing something completely different with the GPU. I currently game at 1080p on PC, so my GTX 1060 is a card that works great and can still push games to frame rates around 70-90fps with some tweaks. But if I wanted to play the same games at 4k, I would only upgrade my GPU to a GTX 1080ti for a similar level of performance (in this example only obviously) at 4k from my 1060 at 1080p.

 

[Great Hair]

"i dont want to advertize any youtuber talking about dis"

A youtube video at the end of his OP, for emphasis

 

[yurinka]

1. That's fair, I did not see that image, and I agree fan mockups are pointless and it won't be that small.

2. Being all digital will likely remove around $15-$20 from the purchasing price, but it also forces gamers to only buy from their store giving them a larger cut of revenue for every single game that a person buys on the console. And again, they will absolutely market the hell out of Game Pass with Lockhart hoping to sell the two together, and being all digital will further convince people to sign up for Game Pass.

Also, paying $1 for three years? You do realize that to do that people had to give Microsoft $180 for three years of gold and then converted it to Ultimate for $1. So following GAAP they would count $5 a month for every subscriber that did that. Come June 2022 when those three years of Ultimate expires for most people, they will then need to pay full price, so MS basically has until E3 2022 to impress with Game Pass and truly begin to make money. But even if every GP sub is subbed because of the gold conversion, that is still $50 million a month in revenues earned from Game Pass alone. Again, this is part of their investment into the future, and they have the numbers and we do not, but I trust they are making the right business call.

3. That's true, but it is a limited number of games and it still is not very different from developing a game for PC.

4. Who said anything about Lockhart having a way slower CPU? By all accounts, it is supposed to have the same 8c/16t Zen 2 CPU and the only thing that will likely be different is the clockspeed (it won't be decompressing as big of files, so will not need to be as fast) I expect it to be around 3-3.2Ghz which is not very far from the PS5's max CPU speed of 3.5Ghz. And again, you are comparing something completely different with the GPU. I currently game at 1080p on PC, so my GTX 1060 is a card that works great and can still push games to frame rates around 70-90fps with some tweaks. But if I wanted to play the same games at 4k, I would only upgrade my GPU to a GTX 1080ti for a similar level of performance (in this example only obviously) at 4k from my 1060 at 1080p.

2. The getting a higher revenue share from digital games is a good point to get a digital only console, I didn't consider that.

Regarding Players paying $180 for Gold, that's another service that already has its own costs like servers costs for online or save data cloud, paying the devs for the games put on Gold, etc. I understand their Game Pass offer is a bet for the future, but we still have to see the conversion to full price sub once it ends. Same goes with the stuff of putting AAA games there day one: I assume they will only do it during a few years while trying to grow the Series X and Gamepass userbase, and once they achieve a good enough userbase -or once they decide they won't achieve that critical mass and can't afford to continue losing more money- they will stop doing it.

4. In that PC (or in mine, I have a i7+1070 laptop with 1080p display) you may achieve these framerates with current gen game. But it won't be the case with mid-late next gen games.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

44 percent more gpu power by what measurement?

The ps5 can do 85 percent of the floating point operations per second the Xbox sx can. That's the gpu gap. The fill rate gap is in favor of clock. The ray tracing gap is likely similar to the tflop gap as likely the ray tracing units clock with the chip, no indicator that they are decoupled. Meaning if the CUs do 85 percent then likely the raytracing units do too. Don't get me wrong it's still an advantage but... I think you'll be disappointed if you expect a gap like the Xbox one and ps4 had. This gap is smaller, outside of the i/o speed gap in the other direction. . .

RT gap might be larger than that; AFAIK MS have added some Tensor core-like hardware to their system for ML and RT purposes. They mentioned this a long time back. It's kind of where the ridiculous 25 TF figure came from ("ridiculous" because that additional hardware is not for general graphics or CU tasks; it's specialized).

So far we don't know if Sony have done similar to this. Seeing they don't have as much of a need for these types of features (ML in particular) aside from what is a given with the standard CU architecture of RDNA2, I don't think they have those particular customizations on their GPU. But they do have other customizations, like the cache scrubbers, in their design.

 

[Gamer79]

Floating point operations per second is a measurement itself. A Ford mustang 55mph and a Ford fiestas 55mph are the same . So are tflops. The difference is clock per volt and performance per volt and clock metrics are Better on rdna2. The actual measurement is equal .

This man is correct but Teraflops only tell half the story on how "powerful" as system is. There are a ton of components like ram, memory,architecture, etc that have to come together for a system to perform at it's peak.

So cause your GPU is 12 teraflops does not mean your system can push 12 teraflops. It means your system has the potential to push that much.

 

[93xfan]

None of that comes close, I mean it's not even a debate. Ask any developer and they'll say SSD is biggest thing. Of course it is.

I can prove that is false. The Scorn developer says it’s the CPU, for example.

Also, which developers are saying the difference between both SSDs/IO is the biggest difference between next gen consoles? Are you mistaking them for comparing it to gen 8 HDDs?

They do have NDAs so I’d be surprised to see it be the former.

 

[tryDEATH]

MS makes a ton of money off of Azure, but don't think its profits or its partnership with Sony effects anything with Xbox. Each division pretty much operates as an independent company with their own revenue goals. More than likely, the Azure side charges Xbox side to use their services. Probably at a reduced rate, and yes the money stays within the same corporation overall, but for tracking revenue, it is an expense for Xbox to use Azure, and considered sales for Azure.

Not saying that xCloud is not going to be huge or make money for MS, but think of that as a subdivision of Xbox, which would be leasing servers from Azure.

I agree, but Xbox will play an integral role in bringing gamers through Xcloud to Azure thus MS will be double dipping so to say, for much larger profit margins as every think will be under one roof.

 

[tryDEATH]

True.
We’ll see what the future brings.
They might prefer to be a service and cloud provider if there 1st party games bomb and the console console bombs with it. Investors will invest more into Azure servers etc.
If the xbox consoles sell well and 1st party does well than they have alot more choices and routes they can go.

Who knows what happens when Nintendo to do the same service, and Playstation and steam improves on there.
Xbox is leading the way atm, but Games is all Nintendo are and what brings the most money for Sony atm

Both will most likely be going through MS anyway and as Sony already does.

 

[Killer Sakoman]

Why would the budget lockhart bes digital only? Correct me if I am wrong, but those who are interested in budget console most likely do noy have good internet? .

Ps5 digital edition is little different as it doesn't really target budget gamers as the price is not really that much low. It feels more like a push toward digital instead. This is more like a deal. You don't need disc, you can save a 100 and buy two more games.

 

[The Hamburglar]

If they do sell it at 400 dollars will they finally admit Sony is their competition instead of constantly lying saying google is

 

[93xfan]

Why would the budget lockhart bes digital only? Correct me if I am wrong, but those who are interested in budget console most likely do noy have good internet? .

Ps5 digital edition is little different as it doesn't really target budget gamers as the price is not really that much low. It feels more like a push toward digital instead. This is more like a deal. You don't need disc, you can save a 100 and buy two more games.

if it was $200, I’ll be a lot of my casual gaming friends may start next gen earlier than they normally would’ve.

And then you have people buying it as their second console, or for their kids.

it may even bring in some non-gamers influenced by their friends to buy one, especially as COVID 19 limits what we can do outside

 

[93xfan]

If they do sell it at 400 dollars will they finally admit Sony is their competition instead of constantly lying saying google is

You’re referring to a half truth. They said long term Google and Amazon are the competition. Short term they believe Sony is.

 

[mckmas8808]

Microsoft has lost a ton of money on Xbox, since it launched.

Forbes: Xbox lost Microsoft $4 billion (and counting)

Forbes takes stock of Microsoft and asks what the behemoth is gonna do about some of its woes. The biggest problem facing Microsoft is its size. At 60,000 employees and $40 billion in revenues, the company isn't as nimble as it once was, and newer products are not yet earning the company much...

www.engadget.com

Analyst: Microsoft losing $2 billion on Xbox annually

Hiding losses thanks to extremely profitable Android royalties Microsoft is losing billions of dollars on its Xbox business, Nomura analyst...

www.destructoid.com

Microsoft loses $1 billion for 360 repairs

"Three red rings" now covered by three-year warranty

www.gamesindustry.biz

Microsoft loses $400m on the Xbox One in just ten months

Microsoft spent $2.1 billion on the production and launching of the Xbox One console

www.independent.co.uk

But they didn't go into those situations KNOWING they'd lose that much money. It wasn't "the" strategy.

 

[Dr Bass]

But they didn't go into those situations KNOWING they'd lose that much money. It wasn't "the" strategy.

I dunno, I think that would be even worse for them. Obviously the RROD debacle wasn't a strategy but I think buying their way into "the home" absolutely was the strategy, initially. I don't think they lose money anymore though, so going back to that doesn't seem like a great idea unless they are really feeling the heat.

 

[The Hamburglar]

You’re referring to a half truth. They said long term Google and Amazon are the competition. Short term they believe Sony is.

That’s fine but they keep saying Sony isn’t which it is.

 

[Dr Bass]

You’re referring to a half truth. They said long term Google and Amazon are the competition. Short term they believe Sony is.

I still can't believe they said this. Yeah a couple of companies that have demonstrated zero ability to produce a quality game, even on local hardware, are going to be the "real competitors." It is comments like this that seem to underline the fact MS still doesn't understand the market. You can't just buy your way into an artistic field, you have to actually care about the medium, know where it came from to be able to contribute to where it's going, etc. There is a finite amount of true expertise out there, which is why "buying studios" also isn't a strategy. People come and go from those studios, and you could be left with empty shells of what they were with IP you can't really use (I.E. Rare, now look what they are doing with Battletoads). Once the talented people are gone, what use is "the studio"? I don't think Google or Amazon, two companies that also display next to near zero taste with consumer product development, are going to put together AAA quality streaming platforms and exclusive titles to go with it and leave Sony and Nintendo behind. Completely delusional.

 

[Gravemind]

Why would the budget lockhart bes digital only? Correct me if I am wrong, but those who are interested in budget console most likely do noy have good internet? .

Ps5 digital edition is little different as it doesn't really target budget gamers as the price is not really that much low. It feels more like a push toward digital instead. This is more like a deal. You don't need disc, you can save a 100 and buy two more games.

Unless Lockhart releases in the year 1995, I seriously doubt that is going to be much of a concern.

 

[93xfan]

That’s fine but they keep saying Sony isn’t which it is.

They’ve repeatedly shown an interest in competing with Sony. It’s pretty much why they’re holding off on price, why they’re pushing BC so hard, as well as smart delivery, why they went on about clocks being consistent, etc.

It’s very clear they view Sony as the competition. Even Phil Spencer has watched and spoken about the PS5 reveal in March. Are you just taking one statement and basing all of this off of that?

 

[Fawst]

It's easy to beat playing Halo at a lower resolution: you can just play something else at a higher resolution.

 

[oldergamer]

Why discuss an article from 2005???

 

[Vawn]

I haven't read through these 7 pages of comments, as I noted the OP seemed to have zero source for these rumors.

But, is there actual smoke to this? Is there actual a basis for this "rumor" to warrant this much discussion?

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I haven't read through these 7 pages of comments, as I noted the OP seemed to have zero source for these rumors.

But, is there actual smoke to this? Is there actual a basis for this "rumor" to warrant this much discussion?

Pure speculation.

 

[D.Final]

New rumors from some insiders and reported by some reliable youtubers I do not wish to advertise here about the Price of Series S.

Rumors suggesting the base model could sell for a super aggressive price at $399 and the Lockhart model for a crazy $200.

The lockhart is said to have a more powerful gpu than the One X but all digital and not on the level of a Series S.

Microsoft has the pockets to do something crazy like this if they choose too. If a person can play the new Halo for $200 with a lower resolution, holy shit that's impossible to beat. Stay tuned!

Here is one of the fellows I am talking about, and respect him.

I don't know.

 

[pasterpl]

Microsoft has lost a ton of money on Xbox, since it launched.

Forbes: Xbox lost Microsoft $4 billion (and counting)

Forbes takes stock of Microsoft and asks what the behemoth is gonna do about some of its woes. The biggest problem facing Microsoft is its size. At 60,000 employees and $40 billion in revenues, the company isn't as nimble as it once was, and newer products are not yet earning the company much...

www.engadget.com

Analyst: Microsoft losing $2 billion on Xbox annually

Hiding losses thanks to extremely profitable Android royalties Microsoft is losing billions of dollars on its Xbox business, Nomura analyst...

www.destructoid.com

Microsoft loses $1 billion for 360 repairs

"Three red rings" now covered by three-year warranty

www.gamesindustry.biz

Microsoft loses $400m on the Xbox One in just ten months

Microsoft spent $2.1 billion on the production and launching of the Xbox One console

www.independent.co.uk

all of these articles are over 5 years old, some are even referring to the launch period of the new console when all manufacturers (except N) are loosing money.

here are some fresher links/data;

2018

How Microsoft’s record-setting $10B gaming year compares to rivals Sony and Nintendo

In a fiscal year littered with firsts, Microsoft's gaming division hit a new high water mark.

www.geekwire.com

2019

Xbox revenue dips to $2.05 billion as Xbox LIVE users rise

Microsoft's Xbox division pulls in less money in Q4, but Xbox LIVE active users are up to a record high.

www.tweaktown.com

they have also recorder the record high xblive usage and game pass is also growing, it is a marathon not a sprint, they have the luxury of being able to think and plan long term. There is a lot of ventures that require huge investments to gain foot in the market and are aimed to be profitable long term. Microsoft is in business of making money, they are publicly traded company, they have responsibility to their shareholders. No CEO would be able to defend an ongoing loss like the one you have showed with your links if this wouldn’t be a part of wider strategy. Especially now, when companies like Google and Amazon are also looking to step into gaming market, Microsoft is in much better position to lead this pack. If ms play this right, xcloud might become for games, what Android became for smartphones (and google).

 

[Dr Bass]

all of these articles are over 5 years old, some are even referring to the launch period of the new console when all manufacturers (except N) are loosing money.

here are some fresher links/data;

2018

How Microsoft’s record-setting $10B gaming year compares to rivals Sony and Nintendo

In a fiscal year littered with firsts, Microsoft's gaming division hit a new high water mark.

www.geekwire.com

2019

Xbox revenue dips to $2.05 billion as Xbox LIVE users rise

Microsoft's Xbox division pulls in less money in Q4, but Xbox LIVE active users are up to a record high.

www.tweaktown.com

they have also recorder the record high xblive usage and game pass is also growing, it is a marathon not a sprint, they have the luxury of being able to think and plan long term. There is a lot of ventures that require huge investments to gain foot in the market and are aimed to be profitable long term. Microsoft is in business of making money, they are publicly traded company, they have responsibility to their shareholders. No CEO would be able to defend an ongoing loss like the one you have showed with your links if this wouldn’t be a part of wider strategy. Especially now, when companies like Google and Amazon are also looking to step into gaming market, Microsoft is in much better position to lead this pack. If ms play this right, xcloud might become for games, what Android became for smartphones (and google).

Yes of course those included old links, the point was to show the history of Xbox losing billions of dollars across generations. Like I mentioned in another post, it doesn't seem they are losing money now. But to act like it was "the plan" all along to lose billions of dollars for two decades only to start making a smallish profit in the grand scheme of things is disingenuous. They are trying to throw anything at the wall and seeing what sticks.

No CEO would be able to defend etc etc. Well a lot of people/shareholders wanted Xbox sold off or killed off for a long time. It was NOT a strategy. I know it's a publicly traded company, I have stock in them.

Microsoft Investor Wants To Fire Ballmer And Sell Xbox Division

A report by BizJournals claims that ValueAct, a $2 billion Microsoft investor with a 1% stake in the company, is seeking to achieve some major changes at Microsoft. Long-term Microsoft analyst Rick…

www.eteknix.com

Microsoft investors want new CEO to kill Xbox

Surface and Bing, too. Please do kill Bing. Microsoft’s new CEO Satya Nadella is under pressure to turn Microsoft around....

www.destructoid.com

You also mentioned "there is[sic] a lot of ventures that require huge investmenets to gain foot in the market and are aimed to be profitable long term." Were you around for the PS1 days? Sony's console came in and dominated the industry. On their first try. Of course there are reasons for this (software, software software, which MS still needs to prove it understands, which is ironic!) , but it also proves MS has basically bungled their time in the industry in a major (Nelson?) way.

 

[jimbojim]

So, same thread as this

Xbox Series S/Lockhart Will Be Half The Price Of The Series X

Speaking on the Beyond3D forums, eastmen, who has proved in the past to have access to Microsoft insider information, revealed that the Xbox Series S will be half the price of the Series X, come in a small form factor and it will be an all-digital console. The insider doesn't know the final...

www.neogaf.com

with also YT video whics leads to source from member eastmen from B3D which is a false rumor.

Looks like that member eastmen from B3D forum is just a fraud. Same thread on ERA, some journalist did some research and found this :

Cant believe a verified member made this post lol

Verified or not.. try going back in time and read this so called insider (eastmen) old inside scoop on xbox one .. he is way off all the time.. go back to Xbox one X speculation before the final reveal

Microsoft XBOX (XBox One X / Project Scorpio) - Prerelease News and Rumours

That might work for the launch period. You could always drop to $399 in early 2018 when demand softens.These are promium customers anyway, 50 bucks for six months extra of the fastest thing around isn't so bad. Is BOM likely to be more than $150 higher than the X1S though? ~$40 more for Ram...

forum.beyond3d.com

ps4 pro has been on sale already under the $399.99 price in the states . Also there is a year of improvements over the course of the year. I am sure the 14/16nm tech has improved where yields will be much better. Ram prices have also come down while speeds have gone up and so on and so forth. We will have to wait and see what MS does with scorpio and what if anything sony does in response. What the systems actually cost MS and Sony doesn't matter to us as a consumer. MS may decide it wants to price match the pro even taking a loss to do so or they might go and make something that can be considered a real generational leap over the current systems and charge a premium.

Hopefully we don't have to wait much longer

My wild guess

16GB of GRDDR +$20
No optical drive - $30
Split CPU / GPU +75

That's my thinking

He is no "insider "

[WCCFTECH-Rumor] Lockhart Will Be Half The Price Of The Series X; Series X prepared to be $400, July Event Will Be A “Night Of Mic Drops”

Seriously. I’m coming back to this thread after the event to see how wrong they were.

www.resetera.com

How in sweet baby jesus name is this thread not locked?

Let me answer this with an original eastmen post

Yea I can't say much maybe 50% of the time I can give more info but then the other 50% of the time is well the other half of the time? Makes sense ? Sometimes you gotta take that first step even when there is another 10 steps waiting for you and maybe you name each step something different but its all the same flight of stairs. But you know maybe that's a fat person thing ?

Xbox Series X|S Backward Compatibility Enhancements Detailed [XSX|S BC]

Key snippet: Ronald also spoke with IGN, and when asked if "thousands" meant that the goal was every single Xbox One game – in addition the hundreds of Xbox 360 and original Xbox games already compatible with Xbox One that will also play on Xbox Series X – Ronald said, "The goal is definitely...

forum.beyond3d.com

[WCCFTECH-Rumor] Lockhart Will Be Half The Price Of The Series X; Series X prepared to be $400, July Event Will Be A “Night Of Mic Drops”

Have you seen the specs of a standard PS4? And what TLOU2 looks like on it?

www.resetera.com

In short :

According to eastmen's post history, he is very Xbox related. So, surely he is pissed because PS5 gained so much momentum, then he said what he said just to diverts attention from the PS5 and maybe recently Oodle Kraken tweets. LOL

 

[VAL0R]

Nevermind, I replied to the wrong person.

 

[SaucyJack]

Also, paying $1 for three years? You do realize that to do that people had to give Microsoft $180 for three years of gold and then converted it to Ultimate for $1. So following GAAP they would count $5 a month for every subscriber that did that.

Don't go quoting GAAP if you don't know what you’re talking about.

If MS made a $1 sale for a 3-year Gamepass service then, under GAAP, they’ll book 33c a year to revenue. The $180 Gold sale has already been booked when it was made and not relevant to the accounting.

People have been willingly buying gold, in significant number, for well over a decade now. You can’t count those gold sales as somehow being the product of Gamepass because MS decided to give people, essentially, a free upgrade to drum up interest.

 

[SirTerry-T]

You can't just buy your way into an artistic field, you have to actually care about the medium, know where it came from to be able to contribute to where it's going, etc.

Any company that's wants to dip its feet into any venture that may make them profit, isn't doing it for altruistic reasons, that includes Microsoft, that includes Nintendo and it definitely includes Sony way back in 1988.

 

[D.Final]

I think that the Lockhart is just a Digital version of the console.
And that the price difference will be around 100$

 

[Arelyon]

How it's this a megaton?

 

[Dr Bass]

Any company that's wants to dip its feet into any venture that may make them profit, isn't doing it for altruistic reasons, that includes Microsoft, that includes Nintendo and it definitely includes Sony way back in 1988.

No but Nintendo and Sony still seem to have people who care about what video games can be. Yeah of course the point is to make a profit in the process. But do you not think the team at Nintendo working on Zelda care deeply about the medium? Microsoft never displayed this, and even though they don't have a monopoly on games they sure do behave in a way similar to the video I am linking below.

I don't know how many users here were playing when PS1 released but the stuff they came out with was amazing back in the day. The first shots of Final Fantasy 7 and Resident Evil 1 were mind blowing and showed what new things could be achieved in gaming with the design of the playstation. They were enabling creators to do their best work and they cared about the content. And that makes customers happy, and that earns you money!



Microsoft very much, still to this day, is focusing on speeds and feeds to sell the Xbox. It hasn't worked since Xbox 1 (you know, the actual first one). They have never won a generation, in fact, haven't they always ended up dead last every time? But they keep focusing purely on power, and releasing the same games every year. Buying up indie studios is fine, but again, none of these studios have big AAA hits or really show that they can do that sort of thing. It's not a problem you can throw money at various places and it gets solved. You have to have the best talent in the world essentially.

As it pertains to the above video, MS very much operates like a company controlled by marketing and sales people. Think of the difference in approach between MS and Sony (and Nintendo but they are obviously doing their own thing). The last Sony show was games, games, games. Here is our software. Something for everyone and there is a lot more coming. Think of how MS runs their shows. Talking heads telling us why we should want what they selling us. "Exclooosive," which that horrifically cheesy voice. They practically talk down to you. Again, it's completely run by marketing folk that clearly don't get the gaming world. Look how they destroyed Rare. Look how they have seemingly destroyed Battletoads. Did the makers of that game EVER play any of the originals?

Remember Iwata was the President of Nintendo and he was an extremely talented programmer and game designer. You have to have people at the top who first and foremost care about quality product.. Remember "The best lineup in Xbox History!" Can you even remember what games were included in that bunch? Nobody cared.

 

[DrAspirino]

Microsoft, the company, have a lot of money. How much of that money does the Xbox department see?

According to this, the Xbox brand alone is within the top 100 most valued brands in the world (above Nintendo and Sony), while Xbox division reports approx. $2.05 Billion in 2019 alone in revenues.

So... since the Xbox division actually makes them money (unlike some years ago), it wouldn't be a surprise if Phil Spencer do some crazy shit. They certainly have the money to do so.

 

[Max_Po]

I am not sure this is "M E G A T O N " news.

Who wants to get fucking excited for the weaker-half assed version of next gen.

Series X top end box is the megaton and better news. ...

This LockFart news is for wine-and-cheese omelet eating casuals who carry a glass eye and J-shapped twig so they can scratch their ass crack while eating breakfast.

When I imagine lockfart anticipate-rs this is what I have in mind...

 

[Slings and Arrows]

According to this, the Xbox brand alone is within the top 100 most valued brands in the world (above Nintendo and Sony), while Xbox division reports approx. $2.05 Billion in 2019 alone in revenues.

So... since the Xbox division actually makes them money (unlike some years ago), it wouldn't be a surprise if Phil Spencer do some crazy shit. They certainly have the money to do so.

Maybe, but revenue isn't profit

 

[supernova8]

This is just the rumor from Eastman on Beyond3D and there's already a thread about that, no? This is not "new" news per se.

 

[D.Final]

How it's this a megaton?

From a marketing aspect. Probably.
We need to wait for see

 

[iJudged]

Let me be the first to leak this.
One s and one x discontinued, series/s $199, series/x $399.

Not sure how reputable but here's something $199 leak?

 

[oldergamer]

Yes of course those included old links, the point was to show the history of Xbox losing billions of dollars across generations. Like I mentioned in another post, it doesn't seem they are losing money now. But to act like it was "the plan" all along to lose billions of dollars for two decades only to start making a smallish profit in the grand scheme of things is disingenuous. They are trying to throw anything at the wall and seeing what sticks.

No CEO would be able to defend etc etc. Well a lot of people/shareholders wanted Xbox sold off or killed off for a long time. It was NOT a strategy. I know it's a publicly traded company, I have stock in them.

Microsoft Investor Wants To Fire Ballmer And Sell Xbox Division

A report by BizJournals claims that ValueAct, a $2 billion Microsoft investor with a 1% stake in the company, is seeking to achieve some major changes at Microsoft. Long-term Microsoft analyst Rick…

www.eteknix.com

Microsoft investors want new CEO to kill Xbox

Surface and Bing, too. Please do kill Bing. Microsoft’s new CEO Satya Nadella is under pressure to turn Microsoft around....

www.destructoid.com

You also mentioned "there is[sic] a lot of ventures that require huge investmenets to gain foot in the market and are aimed to be profitable long term." Were you around for the PS1 days? Sony's console came in and dominated the industry. On their first try. Of course there are reasons for this (software, software software, which MS still needs to prove it understands, which is ironic!) , but it also proves MS has basically bungled their time in the industry in a major (Nelson?) way.

MS was fully aware it could cost between 4 - 7 Billion to enter the console game market with the original Xbox. They started with

1. no game franchises
2. no IP
3. no foothold in the console game market outside of an OS deal with Sega
4. no perception they could get support from publishers
5. no hardware distribution channel to many countries

All of that takes a ton of money to build up.

You seem to have an agenda, and that isn't to show the full facts. MS had a one time 1 billion write off during the Xbox 360 years for RROD. They made money in that generation as well. Xbox 360 was designed to be more custom to maximize performance after MS saw how Nintendo sold the least amount of units with gamecube and still managed to make a profit. That lead to using ATI at the time and designing custom hardware.

MS didn't just start making a profit after 20 years of losses. You are clearly exaggerating on that point. MS has been making money since the Xbox 360 (the second console).

 

[baphomet]

Not sure how reputable but here's something $199 leak?

110% not happening

 

[Rob_27]

Let's see the comparisons first before judging. Could be a nice little Machine. One for someone who doesn't want to spend lots or one for the bedroom.

Let's just wait and see first before saying its sh1t.

 

[Birdo]

I keep seeing "Megatron incoming" and shit myself.

 

[Mr Moose]

According to this, the Xbox brand alone is within the top 100 most valued brands in the world (above Nintendo and Sony), while Xbox division reports approx. $2.05 Billion in 2019 alone in revenues.

So... since the Xbox division actually makes them money (unlike some years ago), it wouldn't be a surprise if Phil Spencer do some crazy shit. They certainly have the money to do so.

Microsoft’s gaming division stalls as countdown to the next generation of consoles begins

The clock is ticking on the current generation of gaming consoles, and as Microsoft gets ready to release its next entry a little over a year from now,

www.geekwire.com

$11.4B according to the article, the $2.05B is for the quarter, not sure about the profit.
$20.84B for PlayStation ($2.81B profit).

 

[iJudged]

110% not happening

I don't see why not. $199 and $399 is absolutely possible.

 

[oldergamer]

Microsoft’s gaming division stalls as countdown to the next generation of consoles begins

The clock is ticking on the current generation of gaming consoles, and as Microsoft gets ready to release its next entry a little over a year from now,

www.geekwire.com

$11.4B according to the article, the $2.05B is for the quarter, not sure about the profit.
$20.84B for PlayStation ($2.81B profit).

Yup and that article doesn't go back very far. Some people have short memories. At one point sony wiped out years of profit on playstation when they ran into financial trouble. Anyway, people trying to claim MS has been losing money for 20 years are totally incorrect, and downright ridiculous. There's still people pushing that narrative ( negative narrative number 241) that MS should get out of the console biz. If they are totaling 10 Billion a year with Xbox, why the hell would they?

Where did you get the sony numbers from?