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Poor optimization or is the Series X/PS5 underpowered? Dying light 2 as reference

ethomaz

Banned
In the gaming industry and modern displays, 2K is commonly referred to as 1440p as you damn well know.

You also damn well know that the person you originally responded to also meant 1440p when he said DL2 can't do 2K / 60

Let me get technical with you.. DL2 does not do 1440p @ 60fps on current gen consoles.

Get a life.
1440p is named QuadHD or QHD or 2.5k.
1080p is 2k.

And just a search on Google with 2.5k… first 2 results on mobile.



BTW 2k is a film maker industry alias… it is used to cameras with 2048 pixels in horizontal.
1080p is the standard 16:9 resolution in TVs that are close to that and so it is called 2k.

In 4:3 the 2k is 2048 x 1536.
 
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RydarGaf

Member
Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal has one of best if not best optimised engine ever, i saw vids when with proper hardware u could have temporary get well over 500fps :)
And about 6600xt being 1080p gpu, true, but as we get proof by actual game, dying light 2 is 1080p60fps on ps5/xsx(and no, nowhere near close to max settings either) so yup, 1080p too just like 6600xt :)

proof with settings/res and ingame fps 6600xt and r5 3600 combo
On console, Dying light 2 was built from the ground up targeting last gen xbox and PS4. Its obviously not tapping into the full power of Series X and PS5. Do you remember assassin's creed black flag? It was a cross genre game back in 2013 for both Xbox 360 and the base PS4. It's resolution was 900p. People who judged the capability of the PS4 by their game had egg on their face as the last generation went and we started seeing games that were graphically demanding running at higher resolunion on the PS4. Look God of War 2018, yet people believed in the early days that the PS4 couldnt do 1080p oh nice looking games. The point we have to wait until devs start making next gen only games to get a real sense of the PS5 hardware limitations
 

VFXVeteran

Banned
That GPU specifically targets 1080p resolution. Has much lower bandwidth than PS5 Gpu. Other than that, you are correct about them being in the same ballpark.

However, techland engine is mostly to blame here for the terrible performance, not the console hardware. Doom Eternal runs 1800p 60fps with Ray Tracing on while not having any frame rate dips. The techland engine isn't as efficient in utilizing all CPU cores like ID Tech 7 that powers DOOM Eternal.

Wait a couple of years, game engines from first party studios, updates to frostbite, and ID Tech will show us what next gen consoles are really capable of doing.
DOOM Eternal is only RT 1 specific feature - reflections. DL2 is RT it's entire lighting pipeline and therefore WILL be more expensive to render.
 

Chronos24

Member
Really think it all comes down to development. The hardware is fine but also look at the times. Transitioning to new gen hardware during a global pandemic and supply shortages and labor issues, honeslty surprised we get much of anything lately.
 

VFXVeteran

Banned
On console, Dying light 2 was built from the ground up targeting last gen xbox and PS4.
There is no evidence of this. They have a full RT lighting pipeline which is completely different code than the conventional screenspace lighting pipeline. Just because a game has a PS4/X1X version doesn't mean it's not advanced or able to implement advanced features for the next-gen systems.
 

PeteBull

Member
On console, Dying light 2 was built from the ground up targeting last gen xbox and PS4. Its obviously not tapping into the full power of Series X and PS5. Do you remember assassin's creed black flag? It was a cross genre game back in 2013 for both Xbox 360 and the base PS4. It's resolution was 900p. People who judged the capability of the PS4 by their game had egg on their face as the last generation went and we started seeing games that were graphically demanding running at higher resolunion on the PS4. Look God of War 2018, yet people believed in the early days that the PS4 couldnt do 1080p oh nice looking games. The point we have to wait until devs start making next gen only games to get a real sense of the PS5 hardware limitations
2 things- first of all AC Black Flag got patched to full 1080p fairy quickly on ps4, great game btw ;)

Visuals and overall performance gonna be visibly better than multiplat games like DL2, thats a given, since we already got sony's first party studios doing it, dunno who were ppl who didnt believe ps4 couldnt have great looking games, but it definitely wasnt me, bought mine with Infamous SS and that game was a looker, came out in march 2014 so basically launch window- but again- thats exclusive so made by sony first party dev studio, they can give 100% of time and effort to just that version of the game, so exactly opposite to multiplatform title like DL2.
 
No it can not. I already said that RT is more expensive than the highest end graphics cards available and that it will take a couple more generations before we see raw 4k/60FPS with the full RT lighting implementation without any reconstruction technique.
Why would we ever not resort to reconstruction techniques in the future though?
 

PeteBull

Member
I just wanted to say that i think we all can agree we arent screwed like ninny fans, those guys suffer on a daily basis with their shitty switch thats is 3x weaker from xbox one, and look how their new pokemon game looks like, keep in mind its a game that sells tens of milions copies every time, but with huge hardware constraint+ not very gifted/experienced in the actual tech, dev studio u get such an abnomination, early 2022 game dat pop in ;D
 

RydarGaf

Member
There is no evidence of this. They have a full RT lighting pipeline which is completely different code than the conventional screenspace lighting pipeline. Just because a game has a PS4/X1X version doesn't mean it's not advanced or able to implement advanced features for the next-gen systems.
You can't be serious! Digital Foundry literally has a video up on their channel saying it primarily targeted last gen with a little bit of polishing for next gen. Digital Foundry Video the game has been in development for several years lol
 

RydarGaf

Member
2 things- first of all AC Black Flag got patched to full 1080p fairy quickly on ps4, great game btw ;)

Visuals and overall performance gonna be visibly better than multiplat games like DL2, thats a given, since we already got sony's first party studios doing it, dunno who were ppl who didnt believe ps4 couldnt have great looking games, but it definitely wasnt me, bought mine with Infamous SS and that game was a looker, came out in march 2014 so basically launch window- but again- thats exclusive so made by sony first party dev studio, they can give 100% of time and effort to just that version of the game, so exactly opposite to multiplatform title like DL2.
2 things- first of all AC Black Flag got patched to full 1080p fairy quickly on ps4, great game btw ;)

Visuals and overall performance gonna be visibly better than multiplat games like DL2, thats a given, since we already got sony's first party studios doing it, dunno who were ppl who didnt believe ps4 couldnt have great looking games, but it definitely wasnt me, bought mine with Infamous SS and that game was a looker, came out in march 2014 so basically launch window- but again- thats exclusive so made by sony first party dev studio, they can give 100% of time and effort to just that version of the game, so exactly opposite to multiplatform title like DL2.
Didn't Ubisoft release watch dogs over a year after that game with a resolution of permanent 900p??? LoL
 

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
Two words: cross generation.

No matter what people say about cross gen and “scaling” and stuff, cross gen games never look as good as single gen only dedicated games.
This. And this is one of the reasons nothing can compete with games like Rachet And Clank Rift Apart and Demon's Souls.

If not for cross-gen support,incompetent devs and multi format support DL2 would fare much better on the two current gen consoles.
 

PeteBull

Member
Didn't Ubisoft release watch dogs over a year after that game with a resolution of permanent 900p??? LoL
Indeed they did, we all remember famous downgrade-gate of epic proportions and 900p was the least of the whole package- mind u i finished and truthfully enjoyed that game somehow, and i played it on my ps4, later got free copy for pc and it does look better there, maxed, but still not even half as good as their fake trailer :)
 

Hawk269

Member
We have already seen some incredible looking games running at higher than 1080p and 60fps or variants of that. Metro Exodus with RT comes to mind. This is more on the dev.

With that said, we all know the PS5/Series X are not powerhouses when it comes to Ray Tracing. AMD is pretty well behind the curve when compared to Nvidia when it comes to RT.
 

Arioco

Member
DOOM Eternal is only RT 1 specific feature - reflections. DL2 is RT it's entire lighting pipeline and therefore WILL be more expensive to render.

But... DL2 does not use RT for lighting on consoles, just for shadows (which in some cases are still screen space shadows full of artifacts) and ambient occlusion. And still it has much lower resolution and frame rate than Doom Eternal. 1080p@30fps vs dynamic 1800p@60fps.

To be clear, are you saying DL2 has better tech than Doom Eternal? Just that it looks better? Both?
 

Quezacolt

Member
I just wanted to say that i think we all can agree we arent screwed like ninny fans, those guys suffer on a daily basis with their shitty switch thats is 3x weaker from xbox one, and look how their new pokemon game looks like, keep in mind its a game that sells tens of milions copies every time, but with huge hardware constraint+ not very gifted/experienced in the actual tech, dev studio u get such an abnomination, early 2022 game dat pop in ;D
The thing with pokemon has nothing to do with the hardware itself. Just compare pokemon with other nintendo first party titles, or even switch 3rd party titles, and they look so much better than pokemon. Gamefreak is to blame here.
 

PeteBull

Member
The thing with pokemon has nothing to do with the hardware itself. Just compare pokemon with other nintendo first party titles, or even switch 3rd party titles, and they look so much better than pokemon. Gamefreak is to blame here.
I feel its combo of weak hardware + the dev with its limitations+ open world game that can easily emphasise its all graphical shortcommings, u can have in the very vid referenses to xenoblade and zelda too, they look better but still roughly on pair or in some aspects even worse from double A ps4 game like this which obviously isnt a looker (even tho again, i loved it, as a star ocean series fanatic :)
 
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Phunkydiabetic

Gold Member
I just wanted to say that i think we all can agree we arent screwed like ninny fans, those guys suffer on a daily basis with their shitty switch thats is 3x weaker from xbox one, and look how their new pokemon game looks like, keep in mind its a game that sells tens of milions copies every time, but with huge hardware constraint+ not very gifted/experienced in the actual tech, dev studio u get such an abnomination, early 2022 game dat pop in ;D

What in the hell is that?! Can we all take a break from arguing about 2.5k and ray tracing and just take a moment to witness this absolute shitshow?
 

rofif

Gold Member
No idea why you guys are using a TPS game to compare to a FPS game. Aren't FPS games way more demanding, especially textures?

With that said, Dying Light 2 should have had at least been 2k 60 FPS on next-gen consoles.
Nothing to do with view point
 

ethomaz

Banned
So the old IBM 1024x768 is 1k?
Yes.
But nobody used that naming before and so 1k and lower resolutions are not used these terms... but you can say 480p in CRT was 0.5k because 640 is closer to 500 than 1000.

BTW the standard.

Cinema resolution standards set by Digital Cinema Initiatives.
* only focusing in the most used (there are 3k, 5k, etc) without the variations (2k can be 2048x858 Scope 2.39:1 or 1998x1080 Flat 1.85:1).
  • DCI 1K = 1024(horizontal) x 540(vertical) = 552.960 pixels.
  • DCI 2K = 2048 x 1080 = 2.211.840
  • DCI 4K = 4096 x 2160 = 8.847.360
  • DCI 8K = 8192 x 4320 = 35.389.440
Our TV standard FullHD is a 1080p 16:9 very closer to 2K Flat 1.85:1... 16:9 is 1.78:1... you need little to no crop to converter to TV output.

 
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Redneckerz

Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
Maybe but I vote with my wallet. I'm not going back.
As an individual, your wallet does not matter to the developers. So all you are doing here is not playing these games by principle.

In which case, i hope you uphold it. Because statements like these are inviting enough to demand reciepts.
Don't bend over and take it. Demand better.
Developers aren't required to listen to demands - And i find it funny that you think they are.

What are you going to do if they don't (And as history shows, they won''t)? Keep on voting with your wallet?

This is why mid-terms even exist you know.
Look at how ID Tech 7 Game Engine runs DOOM Eternal on the new gen consoles.
Obviously, tech land engine isn't as sophisticated so the result is subpar performance.
Id Tech and Chrome Engine are very different pieces of tech and have a completely different design paradigm. Saying one isn't as sophisticated because it targets different strengths is just wrong.
However, techland engine is mostly to blame here for the terrible performance, not the console hardware. Doom Eternal runs 1800p 60fps with Ray Tracing on while not having any frame rate dips. The techland engine isn't as efficient in utilizing all CPU cores like ID Tech 7 that powers DOOM Eternal.
Ill give you a heads up: Most engines aren't truly parallelized. Yeah, they scale across a few cores, but multi-threading is the hardest part of any engine - And its a gargantuan effort.
 

BadBurger

Gold Member
I'd judge the consoles by their exclusives this early on, and both Miles Morales and Ratchet make it clear the PS5 at least is capable of far, far greater visuals than what Techland gave us in this game.
 

Justin9mm

Member
1440p is named QuadHD or QHD or 2.5k.
1080p is 2k.

And just a search on Google with 2.5k… first 2 results on mobile.



BTW 2k is a film maker industry alias… it is used to cameras with 2048 pixels in horizontal.
1080p is the standard 16:9 resolution in TVs that are close to that and so it is called 2k.

In 4:3 the 2k is 2048 x 1536.
You're replying to me like I don't know this.

My point was that people refer to 1440p as 2K anyway.. That is not going to change. The person you replied to meant 1440p.

No one calls 1080p 2K when we are talking about gaming resolutions, even if it technically is.
 

winjer

Member
You're replying to me like I don't know this.

My point was that people refer to 1440p as 2K anyway.. That is not going to change. The person you replied to meant 1440p.

No one calls 1080p 2K when we are talking about gaming resolutions, even if it technically is.

Only ignorant people call 1440p as 2K.
 

FlyyGOD

Member
It's using their rasterization prowess, which is the RDNA2 biggest strength. What tech you think would change that outcome? It's a matter of raw power, nothing else.
The game is clearly cross gen not using nearly any of the new systems strengths and is very poorly optimized for all systems including pc.
 

ethomaz

Banned
You're replying to me like I don't know this.

My point was that people refer to 1440p as 2K anyway.. That is not going to change. The person you replied to meant 1440p.

No one calls 1080p 2K when we are talking about gaming resolutions, even if it technically is.
So you know what is right and keep saying it wrong?

I’m the opposite it is not why other say it wrong that I will keep repeating it… I do my part to explain what is correct use of the word.
 
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ethomaz

Banned
Are you serious? It's standard in gaming!

Have you been living under a rock? Show me where people commonly call 1440p 2.5K in their discussions on GAF?
Something can’t be standard if it goes against the standard.

2K being wrong called 2560x1440 is at best an generic terminology and not standard.

But 1440p can be 2K in other aspect ratio but not 16:9.. for example:

4:3 1920x1440
 
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Inviusx

Member
As an individual, your wallet does not matter to the developers. So all you are doing here is not playing these games by principle.

In which case, i hope you uphold it. Because statements like these are inviting enough to demand reciepts.

Developers aren't required to listen to demands - And i find it funny that you think they are.

What are you going to do if they don't (And as history shows, they won''t)? Keep on voting with your wallet?

This is why mid-terms even exist you know.

With statements like this I weep for the future of this industry.
 
Ok I gotta time it when I get home, but there’s no way that it takes 26 seconds to load on PC, like that loading screen pops up for 5 seconds xD Maybe I should lay off the drugs.
 

Kacho

Gold Member
Shocking is to have to explain the “lot of people” are saying it wrong.
Guessing most people don’t actually care about something so trivial. Similar to how a lot of people say “I could care less” when it’s actually “I couldn’t care less”. You know what they mean using the former even if it’s wrong, and it’s used incorrectly so often it’s not even worth trying to correct people.
 

ethomaz

Banned
Guessing most people don’t actually care about something so trivial. Similar to how a lot of people say “I could care less” when it’s actually “I couldn’t care less”. You know what they mean using the former even if it’s wrong, and it’s used incorrectly so often it’s not even worth trying to correct people.
That is fine.
Just don’t try to “correct” others using incorrectly terms or pretend like everybody will understand “1440p = 2K”.

We are in a more technical forum with people from different countries talking about pixels where there is a clear different between 1080p and 1440p after all.

PS. That reply was not directly for you.
 
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Justin9mm

Member
Shocking is to have to explain the “lot of people” are saying it wrong.
You seem to not understand that it's different depending on the meaning you are applying it to.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/2k-definition,37641.html

No one is saying that 1080p isn't 2K within Cinema (DCI)

But in gaming terms 1440p is 2K and 1080p is HD or FHD. It's not wrong, you are just arrogant.

I'm done repeating it. You are a flog.
 

Justin9mm

Member
That is fine.
Just don’t try to “correct” others using incorrectly terms or pretend like everybody will understand “1440p = 2K”.

We are in a more technical forum with people from different countries talking about pixels where there is a clear different between 1080p and 1440p after all.

PS. That reply was not directly for you.
You clearly knew when you responded originally to the person saying DL2 is not 2K in performance mode that he meant 1440p. How dumb could you be to think otherwise if you knew anything about gaming.

For you to say performance mode is 2K is you being a smartass. No one cares about your technical pixel measurements.. And it's a gaming forum, if you can't get onboard with common accepted terminology in the gaming industry as a whole, then the problem is you.
 

adamsapple

Gold Member
Back to the topic on hand ...
It's not something that just applies to consoles, PC ports often come in hot and not fully optimized on PC either.

 
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winjer

Member
You seem to not understand that it's different depending on the meaning you are applying it to.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/2k-definition,37641.html

No one is saying that 1080p isn't 2K within Cinema (DCI)

But in gaming terms 1440p is 2K and 1080p is HD or FHD. It's not wrong, you are just arrogant.

I'm done repeating it. You are a flog.

Ever since Tom, sold it's site, that Tom's hardware has been riddle with non-sense like this.
Be it in gaming of cinema, 2K is for 1080p.
ethomaz ethomaz has already done a clear explanation of this.
It's ok to be ignorant of this. The vast amount of knowledge that exists means we are all ignorant of many things.
The issue is to insist in an mistake, despite others with clear knowledge explaining the standard.
 

BennyBlanco

aka IMurRIVAL69
Ray-tracing is hard to do without DLSS or other image reconstruction techniques. You have high end PC components only able to do 30fps in Dying Light 2 if it's run with native resolution.

Yup DLSS is carrying this game, and a few others. Nvidia is like 5 years ahead of their competition.
 

Ev1L AuRoN

Member
The game is clearly cross gen not using nearly any of the new systems strengths and is very poorly optimized for all systems including pc.
Let's agree to disagree, I don't think this game is poorly optimized at all. The game runs very well in a number of GPU's, the RT is very demanding, but to be fair, is also very impressive. As far as open world games go, I think DL2 is one of the prettiest, and that don't come cheap. No other game currently uses the new tech those consoles have, and we don't use that as a metric to call a game unoptimized, people are just salty the game needs to be at 1080p to achieve 60fps on consoles. If the game was ugly, or with severe performance issues, I might agree, but that's not the case. The only thing this really lacks on consoles is something similar to DLSS.
 

Neo_game

Member
I can't believe we already have a 1080P 30fps mode on these consoles. Loading times also being 25+secs is not great. Even the dev recommends to use Dx11 settings, it is more heavy on DX12. The game is poorly optimized and it is well know that there were issues with the game dev. The videos I have seen the game is not that good looking either too be so demanding.
 
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