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[Ri'Orius]

I'm sure cops are thinking about "The Deadliest Jobs Graph" when they're wrestling an armed individual on the ground.

No, but we should be when we're determining appropriate training for, behavior of, and discipline towards officers.

Police officers are more worried about the possibility of getting shot than is supported by the statistics. This leads them to 'fear for their lives' more often and thus shoot civilians more often. If we taught cops 'hey, turns out not everyone on the street is a bloodthirsty animal who's going to Hulk out and murder you,' maybe we could avoid some of those civilian deaths.

Also, while this specific scenario is less egregious than many, keep in mind: the dude was shot with his own gun. Meaning he wasn't armed when he was killed. Sure, adrenaline and whatnot: it's an understandable mistake to make, but we shouldn't be coddling the cop and pretending it wasn't a mistake at all.

 

[Zen Aku]

If it takes 15 shots to make sure a HUMAN BEING is not longer a threat then :

A. Your aim is fucking garbage and you need SERIOUS training

B. You're fighting a vampire

C. You need serious fucking training and your aim is fucking garbage

C2. Or they're Stormtroopers.

 

[shoelacer]

What's with cops and handcuffing dead bodies? Shit seems like some macabre theatrics imo

 

[Almighty]

Where did this occur at? I grew up in Roy and Riverdale (live in SLC now), but I couldn't tell where they were. Maybe one of the gas stations on 1900 W like Triple Stop?

Triple Stop is on 3500 W. This is the gas station across the street from the Ogden Airport and kitty-corner from 7-Eleven and Del Taco.

 

[O Canada Our Home and Native Land]

What's with cops and handcuffing dead bodies? Shit seems like some macabre theatrics imo

Haven't you seen Goodfellas? People who you think should be dead can still be alive. Better safe than sorry.

 

[clockworkinyou]

Did the police officer really have to unload 15 shots into him? One or two would have been enough if you're trained.

Fuck outta here with this shit.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Yeah, because all 15 shots are laser trained onto their target, No possible way this cop firing like some maniac in an action movie can have a stray bullet do some collateral damage.



If it takes 15 shots to make sure a HUMAN BEING is not longer a threat then :

A. Your aim is fucking garbage and you need SERIOUS training

B. You're fighting a vampire

C. You need serious fucking training and your aim is fucking garbage

This is a dumb argument. Shooting a gun isn't like a fps game. No one gets VATS and a real time readout of percentage hit chance to any given area. You're moving, adrenaline is flowing, pistols aren't the easiest thing to aim, and if it's not a hit that incapacitates the central nervous system they're still moving, fighting, running, etc.

I'm just saying of all the things to complain about 15 shots shouldn't be on the list.

 

[BiGBoSSMk23]

I just saw the second officer's bodycam footage and it's even more clear that it was absolutely excessive.

They ended a guy's life just like that.

That was a fucking execution.

Guy runs, gets shoved falls and gets a full magazine shot into him... And they still have the idiocy to tell not to move.

These guys are pussies with guns.

Cops are supposed to be steeled individuals able to de-escalate situations skillfully, not spray and pray like a fuckin' skunk at the first sign of danger.

Should've just tased or pepper sprayed the guy.

Nothing open and shut about this.

 

[Ekdrm2d1]

Fuck outta here with this shit.

Surejan.gif

 

[clockworkinyou]

Surejan.gif

Guess you live in some fantasy world where movies are real. Stay there, the real world is nothing like you think it is and people like you make it worse.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Same here. It's too bad that is happened though.

I believe it's justified though.

The very fact they shot him with his own gun means he was unarmed. Why can't two trained cops do better?

 

[Ekdrm2d1]

Guess you live in some fantasy world where movies are real. Stay there, the real world is nothing like you think it is and people like you make it worse.

Spoiler

I'm not a gun owner and in favor of dismantling the 2nd amendment

If you have a career at something, odds are you are highly trained at your job, no? Seems like a LEO would be trained to stop somebody with only a few bullets.

 

[Skinpop]

Police should be trained to minimise the risk of violence to all parties.

Other countries manage it.

tbf in civilized countries handguns are banned and so police rarely have to worry about the possibility of getting shot.

 

[Future]

Lmao at people saying to shoot fewer bullets from the safety of neogaf. This isn't a video game where if you fuck up you just bandage yourself up good as new. If dude has a gun and you think you might get shot then you make sure you survive and don't bother counting the bullets

 

[kirblar]

tbf in civilized countries handguns are banned and so police rarely have to worry about the possibility of getting shot.

You've hit the real underlying issue. Police using a disproportionate amount of force in the US relative to other similar countries is due to the US having a disproportionate amount of guns in the population relative to other countries. It's a rational response to our laws and culture. The presumption behind police protocol is that anyone could be armed.

 

[SkyOdin]

You've hit the real underlying issue. Police using a disproportionate amount of force in the US relative to other similar countries is due to the US having a disproportionate amount of guns in the population relative to other countries. It's a rational response to our laws and culture. The presumption behind police protocol is that anyone could be armed.

I don't think it can be defended as rational when the response is heavily warped by factors such as racism. White people are seen as safe to approach while people of color are treated as dangerous even when they are unarmed and cooperate. That isn't rational in the least. There is some serious paranoia at play as far as US police are concerned. Calling their behavior "rational" gives them too much credit and distracts away from some severe underlying issues.

 

[norm9]

If a dude shoots a cop and decides to use the "the police have a violent history, over 200 years of it," he'd be laughed out the courtroom.

 

[HiiiLife]

Damn I used to live in Layton too. Crazy

 

[Springhettios]

I just saw the second officer's bodycam footage and it's even more clear that it was absolutely excessive.

They ended a guy's life just like that.

That was a fucking execution.

Guy runs, gets shoved falls and gets a full magazine shot into him... And they still have the idiocy to tell not to move.

These guys are pussies with guns.

Cops are supposed to be steeled individuals able to de-escalate situations skillfully, not spray and pray like a fuckin' skunk at the first sign of danger.

Should've just tased or pepper sprayed the guy.

Nothing open and shut about this.

Dumbest thing I've ever read. Use a taser or pepper spray when the suspect has a firearm. What kind of logic is that.

 

[kirblar]

I don't think it can be defended as rational when the response is heavily warped by factors such as racism. White people are seen as safe to approach while people of color are treated as dangerous even when they are unarmed and cooperate. That isn't rational in the least. There is some serious paranoia at play as far as US police are concerned. Calling their behavior "rational" gives them too much credit and distracts away from some severe underlying issues.

I don't disagree that there are plenty of irrational elements at play when we have incidents like Philandro Castle and that one w/ the female cop in OK.

That doesn't make their training/procedures irrational, though. The US and its gun culture permeate and warp everything, including police responses to judging how threatening people are in a vacuum. Every one gets treated like they have a WMD because we live in a country where Toddlers shoot a person every month.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

Yet dude had a gun and made a really bad decision to try anything with a cop that sees you have a gun...

Soon as he made a move they didn't give him a chance to pull. They wet him up really fast.

Guy had a gun, which is illegal because he is a felon. He realized that, and so instead of going back to prison he decided to run with his gun and they shot him.

This might be the most open and shut case ever.

I watched this video the other day, can't say I'm surprised with the outcome. He had a gun, resisted arrest.

Dumbest thing I've ever read. Use a taser or pepper spray when the suspect has a firearm. What kind of logic is that.

Serious question but can you point in the video or on Sanchez where he has a gun?

 

[jdstorm]

As someone who watches too many action movies. Wouldnt the correct police response be to ask the suspect (sanchez) to put his hands behind his head and slowly go to the ground. The suspect shouldnt even need to be reaching to lift up his jacket if the cops were in control of the situation.

Seems like they were just really poorly trained and got lucky that this guys history (something they didnt know at the time) will allow them to get away with being shitty cops.

 

[kirblar]

As someone who watches too many action movies. Wouldnt the correct police response be to ask the suspect (sanchez) to put his hands behind his head and slowly go to the ground. The suspect shouldnt even need to be reaching to lift up his jacket if the cops were in control of the situation.

Seems like they were just really poorly trained and got lucky that this guys history (something they didnt know at the time) will allow them to get away with being shitty cops.

They're trying to talk to the guy and get him to calm down. They don't have control of the situation - that's what they are trying to establish. They don't have telepathic powers- the situation is only going to be stable if the other party is calm and cooperating fully, which he is not. I'm not sure why you think that if they just asked nicely for this guy to put his hands behind his head and go to the ground that he would just do so willingly.

The issue w/ that guy is that he's a felon holding onto a gun. He doesn't want to be searched because if he is, they'll find the gun on him and he's screwed. That's why he flashes them in an attempt to de-escalate the situation himself. It doesn't work, and that's when he panics and runs.

This has nothing to do with "bad training". The fact that they were called in on this guy means that this guy's in a "try to run" or "surrender" situation w/ no good options ahead of him. They are attempting to de-escalate, but it doesn't work here because of factors that are entirely out of their control. They likely can intuit that something's up w/ him based on his behavior, but again, they're not telepathic- they don't and can't know just how bad a no-win position this call has put this guy in.

And once he runs, it escalates and ends in a matter of seconds. The cop closer to him makes contact, the gun becomes visible, and the closer cop tries and eventually succeeds in wresting it away. The cop further away starts shooting after the gun becomes visible out of fear that it (or another weapon) will be used on his partner. His partner uses the weapon that he wrested away on the man because he doesn't know where all the shots are coming from and doesn't know if all. (This happens a lot- if one person starts shooting others are often joining in because in the moment you can't distinguish the source of the sounds.) The situation devolves into chaos once the guy starts running, and looking at their actions, none of them appear to be malicious or go far beyond what's necessary in the situation, considering the context.

 

[GaimeGuy]

The situation devolves into chaos once the guy starts running, and looking at their actions, none of them appear to be malicious or go far beyond what's necessary in the situation, considering the context.

The situation devolves into chaos because the cops escalate the situation rather than de-escalate it.