• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Police shooting of Nicolas Sanchez in Utah

Status
Not open for further replies.

Ekdrm2d1

Member
ROY — Over a month after the fatal shooting of a 38-year-old man by Roy Police Department officers, body camera footage of the incident has been released.

The footage included below is two of four police body camera videos released Friday, March 31, after a press conference put on by Heather White, an attorney with Snow, Christensen & Martineau hired by Roy City. Two of the videos, which were recorded as police began investigating after the shooting, did not show the incident and aren’t included in this post.

The names of the police officers involved in the shooting are not being released at this time, White said during the press conference.

At about 10 p.m. Feb. 21, two Roy police officers responded to a trespassing call at a Texaco gas station at 4395 S. 1900 West. Following the incident, police said Nicolas Sanchez, 38, of Layton, was fatally shot after raising a gun toward officers and engaging in a fight with them.

After being shot, Sanchez was transported to a local hospital and later pronounced dead, according to Roy Police Department Deputy Chief Aaron Perry.

The body camera video from the first officer to arrive at the scene shows him approach the convenience store and stand near a curb outside. Sanchez is several feet away, standing near the business’ open doorway.

The video from the second officer to respond shows him get out of his vehicle and approach Sanchez and the first officer.

Two customers’ faces were blurred out of the videos, and the audio for both starts at about the 15 second mark. A statement from White says this is because “the camera is programmed to recapture video, but not audio, fifteen seconds prior to the activation of the camera.”

The officers — who White described as “younger” — ask Sanchez to come over to where they’re standing and speak with them. Sanchez asks the officers what he did and what they want to speak with him about.

A few moments later, Sanchez moves away from the doorway and puts his right hand in his pocket.

“Keep your hands out of your pockets for me,” the second police officer says.

“Oh, sorry, I ain’t got nothing,” Sanchez says. While he’s speaking, Sanchez takes his hand out of his pocket, lifts his sweatshirt to show his waistband and places his hands on the outside of his pockets.

“You’ve got a gun on you, do not reach for it,” the second officer says.

“Yeah, do not reach for it,” the first officer says.

The first officer approaches Sanchez, and Sanchez asks what he’s doing. Sanchez begins to move away from the officer, and the officer chases him.

As he’s chasing Sanchez, the first officer grabs him by the back of his hoodie and appears to punch him. The two men fall to the ground.

At the same time, the second officer yells, “Let me see your hands, let me see your hands.” He fires his weapon in Sanchez’s direction once. There’s a brief pause before about 15 more shots are heard.

The first officer and Sanchez were on the ground for about three seconds before gunfire started. There’s a flurry of activity in those moments, and the first officer’s body camera video doesn’t offer a clear view of what happened.

In a written statement provided at the press conference, White said officers saw a handgun tucked into the left side of Sanchez’s waistband when he lifted his sweatshirt.

The first officer was trying to get Sanchez’s gun away from him during their “struggle,” the statement says. “At one point, the officer trying to wrestle the gun from Sanchez’s hands saw the gun pointing at his face,” it reads.

The second officer believed his partner’s life was in danger and fired his gun, the statement says. The first officer got the gun away from Sanchez around that time, the statement says, and shot Sanchez with the deceased’s weapon.

White said the first officer decided to shoot Sanchez because he heard shots being fired and didn’t know if Sanchez had another weapon.

The first officer did not fire any shots with his own gun — only the gun he took from Sanchez, the statement says.

The entire incident lasted just over a minute. White was unable to provide information about how many times Sanchez was shot or where. White said the first officer fired two or three rounds, but didn’t provide more specific information about how many shots were fired.

White’s statement — as well as previous statements from police — says Sanchez had an “extensive criminal history.”

Before coming to Utah, Sanchez lived in California and was involved with gangs there, according to Annette Olsen. Olsen, a close friend from Layton who employed Sanchez at her dog kenneling business, said he left that life behind when he moved to Utah.

Heather White, a Salt Lake City attorney hired by Roy City, fields questions Friday, March 31, 2017, at a press conference called to release body cam footage showing the shooting death of Nicolas Sanchez by two Roy police officers. The press conference was held at the Salt Lake City offices of her law firm, Snow, Christensen & Martineau.

Heather White, a Salt Lake City attorney hired by Roy City, fields questions Friday, March 31, 2017, at a press conference called to release body cam footage showing the shooting death of Nicolas Sanchez by two Roy police officers. The press conference was held at the Salt Lake City offices of her law firm, Snow, Christensen & Martineau.

However, in August 2010, Sanchez was sentenced to five years in federal prison and three years probation after police found guns at his Clearfield home and in a storage unit on Olsen’s business property. Court records say he admitted the weapons — including three handguns, five rifles, a shotgun and ammunition — were his.

“What frustrates me is he was in possession of firearms. He wouldn’t have hurt anyone, he liked to go target shooting,” Olsen told the Standard-Examiner after Sanchez’s death. “I can see if he were robbing someone and he had a gun, but he just had (guns) in his house.”

Because of felony convictions in California, Sanchez was not allowed to have the weapons.

According to previous Standard-Examiner reporting, information about Sanchez’s criminal record in California isn’t immediately available because the state doesn’t have a public online court records system. However, White’s statement says his criminal history includes assault, battery, robbery, drug possession, possession of stolen property, gang activity, weapons violations, parole violations, unlawful discharge of a weapon at a person from a car, attempted murder and more.

It was not immediately clear Friday afternoon whether White’s statement referred to criminal convictions or charges that didn’t ultimately result in convictions.

After Sanchez served his prison time for the Utah gun conviction, a probation officer recommended he be released from supervision two years early. A judge granted the request Jan. 27, 2017 — about a month before Sanchez’s death.

Per protocol, the Weber County Attorney’s Office is investigating whether the shooting was justified and the two officers who were involved have been placed on paid administrative leave. A toxicology report has been ordered on Sanchez’s body, but White wasn’t sure Friday if it had been completed.

It was also unclear when the Weber County Attorney’s Office’s investigation will conclude, White said.

“We believe that the officers acted appropriately,” White said at the Friday press conference. “They did what they were trained and expected to do under the circumstances.”

She said the officers “were dealing with a man with a violent criminal history,” but said she didn’t know whether the officers knew about Sanchez’s background at the time of the shooting.

White said since the officers were called to the store, they had a responsibility to investigate.

“There is a store clerk and a witness inside the store who reported (Sanchez) was acting suspiciously,” she said. “And there are two individuals right in the immediate vicinity there. So the officers...were entitled to conduct their investigation and had to ensure that he did not get away.”

As of Friday afternoon, it wasn’t clear why Sanchez wasn’t allowed at the gas station and was deemed a trespasser.

Through a Government Records Access and Management Act (GRAMA) request, the Standard-Examiner obtained 911 audio of a gas station employee calling Weber County emergency dispatchers to report a man named Nick was trespassing.

In the recording, the employee says Sanchez was told not to come to the business, but had been there multiple times over the past two weeks. She says he was near the store’s front window using a “quarter pusher machine.”

White’s written statement says a clerk and customer saw Sanchez “loitering in the store and acting suspiciously,” with his car’s engine still running in the parking lot.

This is a developing story that will be updated with more information soon.

http://www.standard.net/Police-Fire...-footage-from-fatal-officer-involved-shooting


Body camera footage from the killing of Nicolas Sanchez by Roy police
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAsqafNxILs
 
Yet dude had a gun and made a really bad decision to try anything with a cop that sees you have a gun...

Soon as he made a move they didn't give him a chance to pull. They wet him up really fast.
 

Ekdrm2d1

Member
I'm confused. Did Nicolas Sanchez have a gun or not?

Did the police officer really have to unload 15 shots into him? One or two would have been enough if you're trained. RIP to Laquan McDonald who had the same thing happen to him.
 

sk3

Banned
Guy had a gun, which is illegal because he is a felon. He realized that, and so instead of going back to prison he decided to run with his gun and they shot him.

This might be the most open and shut case ever.
 

kirblar

Member
This escalates super quickly and doesn't appear at first glance to be an unjustified shooting due to the circumstances.
I'm confused. Did Nicolas Sanchez have a gun or not?

Did the police officer really have to unload 15 shots into him? One or two would have been enough if you're trained. RIP to Laquan McDonald who had the same thing happen to him.
He did have a gun. The first officer tried to get it from him, the second officer starts shooting in the middle of the tussle and the second officer ends up shooting the guy with his own gun. It all happens really fast after the guy tries to run.

Officers are trained to shoot to kill. They don't go half-way.
 

johnsmith

remember me
This happened like 10 mins away from my house. Remember reading about it. Honestly hard to feel any outrage here. Of course it's sad that he died, but this guy shouldn't have had a gun and escalated the situation unnecessarily.
 

TheJLC

Member
Yup, a justified shooting. Armed offender, first officer tries to disarm him, second officer fires at the armed offender to protect partner. And now we know he was a convicted felon, which prohibits him from possessing a firearm.

This escalates super quickly and doesn't appear at first glance to be an unjustified shooting due to the circumstances.

He did have a gun. The first officer tried to get it from him, the second officer starts shooting in the middle of the tussle and the second officer ends up shooting the guy with his own gun. It all happens really fast after the guy tries to run.

Officers are trained to shoot to kill. They don't go half-way.

Officers are trained to shoot at many times as necessary to stop the threat. Not shoot to kill. However, shooting is lethal force so someone passing is very likely.
 
Justified or not, The entire fucking clip tho?

Is this a fucking video game or something? Is a motherfucker really gonna get up if you shot him 3 times already. Are people really bullet sponges?
 

F0rneus

Tears in the rain
There's been metric tons of unjustified shootings in the last few years. From what I've seen here, this isn't one of them. Still it's sad that the man died. Rest in peace.
 

TheJLC

Member
Justified or not, The entire fucking clip tho?

Is this a fucking video game or something? Is a motherfucker really gonna get up if you shot him 3 times already. Are people really bullet sponges?

I don't think we actually know how many bullets actually hit him. For all we know, only 1 bullet hit from the first officer.
 

Kettch

Member
I'd say the questionable part here is being shot with his own gun 15 times after having been disarmed. Is it really correct protocol to assume a suspect has a second gun and kill them after having been disarmed of it?
 

Ekdrm2d1

Member
He did have a gun. The first officer tried to get it from him, the second officer starts shooting in the middle of the tussle and the second officer ends up shooting the guy with his own gun. It all happens really fast after the guy tries to run.

Officers are trained to shoot to kill. They don't go half-way.

so they shot him with their burner and then planted it on him then said it was his?

i don't see a gun on him in the video...

GAF is telling me two different things!

I'm going with he had a gun. I may need to re-watch the video to see it.
 

NervousXtian

Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
They both said they saw a gun, something held up his hoodie on the side, it's hard to tell... but it's clear they saw something and he instantly reacted like "oh fuck". A guy who's done hard time, is a felon not allowed to own guns, he knew if they stopped him he was doing double digit years.

Looks like it was justified. Still, sad for everyone involved. Shit like that is tough on everyone around it.
 
Justified or not, The entire fucking clip tho?

Is this a fucking video game or something? Is a motherfucker really gonna get up if you shot him 3 times already. Are people really bullet sponges?


When you're shooting to kill though......does it matter if it's one in the head or 10 in the chest? If the officer is going to kill me, just kill me. Don't shoot me ten times in the stomach then leave me to suffer. I hope I'm good and dead when that mag is empty, not writhing in agony.
 

Akainu

Member
I'd say the questionable part here is being shot with his own gun 15 times after having been disarmed. Is it really correct protocol to assume a suspect has a second gun and kill them after having been disarmed of it?

Yeah I'm not seeing how this makes any sense to anyone.
 

Swig_

Member
This happened like 10 mins away from my house. Remember reading about it. Honestly hard to feel any outrage here. Of course it's sad that he died, but this guy shouldn't have had a gun and escalated the situation unnecessarily.

Where did this occur at? I grew up in Roy and Riverdale (live in SLC now), but I couldn't tell where they were. Maybe one of the gas stations on 1900 W like Triple Stop?
 

guek

Banned
I'd say the questionable part here is being shot with his own gun 15 times after having been disarmed. Is it really correct protocol to assume a suspect has a second gun and kill them after having been disarmed of it?
To play devil's advocate for a second -

It's really really easy to believe this kind of situation is like a movie. As much as cops often suck, they still do die on the job at a higher rate than just about any profession outside of the military. It's not like a video game with multiple lives or a movie that's pre scripted and shot with blanks. You wrestle someone for a gun assuming the other person is going to shoot you dead. So yeah, cops are taught to pull the trigger, because if you hesitate, the guy literally fighting you with a probable intent to kill could pull a knife or a another gun or even take his gun back and shoot you. And then you're dead. It's easy to watch a life or death situation and pretend you know what you would do but orders of magnitude more difficult to actually make complex decisions like trying to see if he's given up trying to kill you or if he's going for a weapon.
 
To play devil's advocate for a second -

It's really really easy to believe this kind of situation is like a movie. As much as cops often suck, they still do die on the job at a higher rate than just about any profession outside of the military. It's not like a video game with multiple lives or a movie that's pre scripted and shot with blanks. You wrestle someone for a gun assuming the other person is going to shoot you dead. So yeah, cops are taught to pull the trigger, because if you hesitate, the guy literally fighting you with a probable intent to kill could pull a knife or a another gun or even take his gun back and shoot you. And then you're dead. It's easy to watch a life or death situation and pretend you know what you would do but orders of magnitude more difficult to actually make complex decisions like trying to see if he's given up trying to kill you or if he's going for a weapon.

Yea police officer isn't even close to the deadliest job in America. Any source for that claim?
 

shira

Member
The first officer did not fire any shots with his own gun — only the gun he took from Sanchez, the statement says.

Damn are cops allowed to shoot people with their own guns?
 

TheJLC

Member
Damn are cops allowed to shoot people with their own guns?

Yes. Lethal force is lethal force. Police can use a screwdriver, machete, squad car, pocket knife, etc, etc... Police aren't limited to the tools they carry in order to protect their life.
 
To play devil's advocate for a second -

It's really really easy to believe this kind of situation is like a movie. As much as cops often suck, they still do die on the job at a higher rate than just about any profession outside of the military. It's not like a video game with multiple lives or a movie that's pre scripted and shot with blanks. You wrestle someone for a gun assuming the other person is going to shoot you dead. So yeah, cops are taught to pull the trigger, because if you hesitate, the guy literally fighting you with a probable intent to kill could pull a knife or a another gun or even take his gun back and shoot you. And then you're dead. It's easy to watch a life or death situation and pretend you know what you would do but orders of magnitude more difficult to actually make complex decisions like trying to see if he's given up trying to kill you or if he's going for a weapon.

If you're talking about fatality rate

Loggers and fishers would be my guess for top 2
 

guek

Banned
Yea police officer isn't even close to the deadliest job in America. Any source for that claim?

If you're talking about fatality rate

Loggers and fishers would be my guess for top 2
Ok I'll come clean. That was an assumption. But it's also not the point. Cops have dangerous jobs and that's reflected in how they're trained. That training often leads to escalation but that's not what happened in this case.
 
To play devil's advocate for a second -

It's really really easy to believe this kind of situation is like a movie. As much as cops often suck, they still do die on the job at a higher rate than just about any profession outside of the military. It's not like a video game with multiple lives or a movie that's pre scripted and shot with blanks. You wrestle someone for a gun assuming the other person is going to shoot you dead. So yeah, cops are taught to pull the trigger, because if you hesitate, the guy literally fighting you with a probable intent to kill could pull a knife or a another gun or even take his gun back and shoot you. And then you're dead. It's easy to watch a life or death situation and pretend you know what you would do but orders of magnitude more difficult to actually make complex decisions like trying to see if he's given up trying to kill you or if he's going for a weapon.

literally less dangerous than garbageman, farmer, groundskeeper and truck driver.
imrs.php
 

guek

Banned
literally less dangerous than garbageman, farmer, groundskeeper and truck driver.
That's not the point! Are you saying cops should be trained to treat personal safety in a life or death situation the same way a garbage man would? Don't train cops to shoot in a life or death situation?
 

J-Rzez

Member
One or two would have been enough if you're trained.

A trained navy seal, ranger, or john wick perhaps. Are you a weapons trainer? Pistol master? These statements are just as wrong as those saying shoot the gun out of their hand, or shoot them in the knee. Its like you're stretching to find any type of fault you can.

If you think LE institutions have enough budget for this amount of training and ammo to do what you're asking you're wrong. Instead of slashing budgets and fighting for less weapons, start thinking about training, and paying enough to attract the type of candidates you think should be the standard. Then you never know how you and your body will react when in a stress situation.
 

holygeesus

Banned
I'm no expert, but I'd rather not live in a society that allows police officers to shoot someone running away from them, in the back, because they might still have a gun on them. They have disarmed the immediate threat, so why the need to then unload on an unarmed guy is beyond me. Keep assessing the situation as it develops.
 

Rest

All these years later I still chuckle at what a fucking moron that guy is.
so they shot him with their burner and then planted it on him then said it was his?

i don't see a gun on him in the video...
There's a glimpse of something at his waistband on his left hip when he raises his sweater that could be a gun, but I don't see him reach for it and am not sure that killing him was the right outcome. It's hard to say though, we don't know what the 9-11 call was, and there is a gun out as soon as they hit the ground, and it doesn't seem like the officer dropped it.

I'm no expert, but I'd rather not live in a society that allows police officers to shoot someone running away from them, in the back, because they might still have a gun on them. They have disarmed the immediate threat, so why the need to then unload on an unarmed guy is beyond me. Keep assessing the situation as it develops.
They didn't shoot him in the back as far as I can see.
 

Walshicus

Member
That's not the point! Are you saying cops should be trained to treat personal safety in a life or death situation the same way a garbage man would? Don't train cops to shoot in a life or death situation?
Police should be trained to minimise the risk of violence to all parties.

Other countries manage it.
 

ColdPizza

Banned
Justified or not, The entire fucking clip tho?

Is this a fucking video game or something? Is a motherfucker really gonna get up if you shot him 3 times already. Are people really bullet sponges?

Are you going out of your way looking for things to nitpick about? Do you honestly think judicious use of ammunition is going through the cop's minds in the heat of the moment?
 

SapientWolf

Trucker Sexologist
literally less dangerous than garbageman, farmer, groundskeeper and truck driver.
Statistically, logging is also more dangerous than being a marine. I guess the trees have learned to fight back.

I don't think they train you to shoot someone with their own gun, unless there's a super cop school. That's pure adrenaline.
 
Are you going out of your way looking for things to nitpick about? Do you honestly think judicious use of ammunition is going through the cop's minds in the heat of the moment?

Not the guy you're responding to, but I do think that's something they SHOULD be thinking about. 3-5 shots in a panic? Sure, that makes sense. But if you watch the video, he just keeps going, there's even a notable pause between the first shot fired and the remainder. Just because lethal force is justified in a situation doesn't mean you should empty an entire magazine. I doubt it would have made a difference in this particular case, but people can survive bullet wounds, so the fewer you fire to incapacitate someone, the better.
 

Sunster

Member
Basically what I want to say in this thread is that our cops don't get enough training. Justified or not, lack of training showed clear as day here.
 
yo Utah scares the ever-loving daylights out of me. I'm a mostly straight white male and I drove through Utah with long hair and I got pulled over and harassed and every single time I got out of the car at a gas station or a restaurant people would turn and openly stare at me like I was the Beatles and it was 1964. I've never felt more like I was living in a dystopian nightmare.

This was literally the look I kept getting:

Suther1.jpg


Don't stand out in Utah.
 

StayDead

Member
I would be on the side of the police here, but I honestly don't understand their decision to shoot the guy 15 times. Surely after the first shot when he was disabled they could've taken him to hospital and then arrested him for breaking the law.

What they did is pure brutality.
 

kirblar

Member
Basically what I want to say in this thread is that our cops don't get enough training. Justified or not, lack of training showed clear as day here.
This is what they're trained to do. The goal is to make sure the threat is no longer a threat.
 
Are you going out of your way looking for things to nitpick about? Do you honestly think judicious use of ammunition is going through the cop's minds in the heat of the moment?

Yeah, because all 15 shots are laser trained onto their target, No possible way this cop firing like some maniac in an action movie can have a stray bullet do some collateral damage.

This is what they're trained to do. The goal is to make sure the threat is no longer a threat.

If it takes 15 shots to make sure a HUMAN BEING is not longer a threat then :

A. Your aim is fucking garbage and you need SERIOUS training

B. You're fighting a vampire

C. You need serious fucking training and your aim is fucking garbage
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom