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[FatKingBallman]

Not to mention Sony of old would have purchased Kojima's new studio a heartbeat after he started it and made it an exclusive PlayStation studio. Instead, we are hearing reports that Kojima's pitch for a new game was rejected by Sony and that he is in negotiations to work with outside partners. That would have been unheard of even just 5 years ago.

Not to mention Sony of old would have purchased Kojima's new studio a heartbeat after he started it and made it an exclusive PlayStation studio. Instead, we are hearing reports that Kojima's pitch for a new game was rejected by Sony and that he is in negotiations to work with outside partners. That would have been unheard of even just 5 years ago.

Kojima Productions hiring people with UE4 knowledge for quite some time. They were never going to work only with Decima of they wanted to go Multiplatform or work with another publisher not named Sony. Also, Kojima stated that Kojima Productions is working on multiple project. You think that Hermen Hulst isn't in good relationship with Kojima??? Btw. happy birthday :

 

[Negotiator101]

They need Bluepoint go. They let Ready At Dawn Go. They let KojiPro go. Quantic Dream. Supermassive. All third party studios who were effectively first party studios making Sony IPs for them for over a decade.

not to mention all the studio closures like Japan Studios, Evolution Studios, Zipper, Guerrilla Cambridge, Incognito, and Sony Liverpool.

They went from 20 studios to like 5 studios. Only 4 of which are deemed worthy to work on what they want since Sony Bend's Days Gone 2 pitch wasnt picked up. 4 Studios means 4 games every 4 years. This means over the next 4 years, we will only see 4 real AAA games from Sony. 1 AAA game a year.

ND recently gave an interview saying how they are still a 1 team studio because multiple development is so hard with just 300 people. How the fuck does ND only have 300 people in 2021? WTF is Sony doing with all those billions?

You've made some good points, too early to predict game output over the next few years however. This does really highlight that Sony simply don't have the depth of talent to even consider a Gamepass competitor currently. It's just more of the same from Sony, but this time they're losing 3rd parties who worked exclusively with them for years.

 

[Zeroing]

Based on GG's past comments about how Sony execs had issues with Aloy being the protagonist of a risky AAA game. We do know the decision making behind the scenes of the original Horizon. GG had to fight tooth and nail to keep a red haired girl as their lead. So yes, it's definitely my opinion but its based on a fact and behind the scenes decision making straight from the horse's mouth. If anything, Sony today is a lot more risk averse.

So not exactly ignorant. What else is ignorant in my post? Did Horizon 2 not take 4+ years to make? What's ignorant about that? What is ignorant about literally asking how Sony aims to release first party AAA titles in the next 6 years when the same studios took 5 to 6 to 7 years to put out those games?

I am literally asking questions based on the facts that we do know about how long games take to develop and inviting discussion, and you call that ignorant? If anything, I literally went out of my way to not make any claims about Sony's lineup. I would love to know if you know of any other games GG, SSM and ND have in development besides Horizon, GoW and TLOU Factions and when you think those games will be released based on what we know about their previous releases.

I have a plausible explanation for this! The fault is us gamers!!!

that was at the time a lot of uproar about “women’s depiction”

we gamers demand better graphics

most said indie games were not games

And so on.. really, what kind of signals does this produce on a gaming company?

also had to the fact that anything is a good cause for a console war and here we are, one company being risk averse, another one who can’t even produce new big IPs so they need to buy 3rd party studios...


It’s a mess.

 

[SlimySnake]

The “too big to fail” narrative is a bunch of bullshit

Demons Souls
Astros Playroom
Returnal
Ratchet and Clank
Kena
Sifu
Little Devil Inside
Etc..

Ignoring the fact that half of those games arent made by Sony first party studios, these arent really games I would consider AAA. We are talking about games that were far bigger than indie games no gave a shit about. Ico, SOTC, The Last Guardian, Death Stranding, Days Gone, Detroit, The Order, Until Dawn, Bloodborne, Warhawk, MAG, Socom. These are not the kind of games Shu will be able to greenlight as head of indie games. This is all on Herman, and unless I am mistaken because of Sony being tight lipped like they are guarding nuclear secrets instead of running an entertainment company, Sony has not replaced any of these games or studios.

I am not even one of those guys who want to play Mario, Zelda and Metroid until the day i die. I want them to go and do new IPs, but what I dont like to see is Sony cut relationships with studios and cut down teams to focus on studios that are simply not going to be able to churn out games. They didnt last gen and they wont this gen. Bend, SSM, PD all released a total of 1 game last gen. Sucker Punch released 2 and they barely made the end of the gen. They are due for their next game in 2026 if history is any indication.

Sony relied on those Japan Studio games to fill in the gaps. This is the argument in this video. They relied on KojiPro. They relied on Sony Bend which was literally their only first party AAA game in 2019. in 2015, they had zero first party titles. The Order, Bloodborne and Until Dawn were all third party studios making Sony IPs, and Sony killed the relationship with all those studios. If you take out DriveClub from 2014, Infamous is the only Sony exclusive that year. if you take out Knack, PS4 only launches with KZSF. Let's look at what the PS4 AAA lineup would look like without these studios.

2013 - KZSF
2014 - Infamous
2015 - Nothing
2016 - Ratchet, Uncharted 4
2017 - Horizon, Uncharted Lost Legacy, GT7
2018 - GoW, Spiderman
2019 - Days Gone
2020 - Dreams, Miles, TLOU, Ghost

Thats it. 3 years with just one AAA game. (Thats MS levels of bad)
1 with ZERO games. (worse than Microsoft)
2 years with just 2 games. OK at best.
and 2 years with 3-4 games. Literally 2 great years out of 8.

Clearly, their first party AAA studios arent equipped to do it alone. Which explains why Jimbo was trying to go all Phil Spencer a la Rise of Tomb Raider and paying off companies to keep third party multiplatform games off of Xbox.

 

[dcmk7]

Based on GG's past comments about how Sony execs had issues with Aloy being the protagonist of a risky AAA game. We do know the decision making behind the scenes of the original Horizon. GG had to fight tooth and nail to keep a red haired girl as their lead. So yes, it's definitely my opinion but its based on a fact and behind the scenes decision making straight from the horse's mouth. If anything, Sony today is a lot more risk averse.

So not exactly ignorant. What else is ignorant in my post? Did Horizon 2 not take 4+ years to make? What's ignorant about that? What is ignorant about literally asking how Sony aims to release first party AAA titles in the next 6 years when the same studios took 5 to 6 to 7 years to put out those games?

I am literally asking questions based on the facts that we do know about how long games take to develop and inviting discussion, and you call that ignorant? If anything, I literally went out of my way to not make any claims about Sony's lineup. I would love to know if you know of any other games GG, SSM and ND have in development besides Horizon, GoW and TLOU Factions and when you think those games will be released based on what we know about their previous releases.

They had to do some focus testing and Yoshida was nervous, that's correct. There were a lot of unknowns for them.

But they took the risk back then and in today's political climate, where games are steering towards female protagonists, it wouldn't even be a concern for them anymore.

So ironically it's probably more likely to be green lit than originally. Basing it on that part of the equation.

I'm not concerned with development times. It's always exaggerated. Since projects can get stuck in pre-production for years with a skeleton staff.

The actual production stage is where the main expenditure costs are involved.

GoW took 3 years in production, if I remember correctly.

So I think you're exaggerating a bit.

I don't know where got the idea of Sony being risk adversed from. Nothing has been cancelled from what I'm aware of. We will have to wait and see how that storyline plays out. But those stories are based on rumours.

 

[Dabaus]

I specifically remember being let down at the Ps5 reveal because they showed so many indies. This article is nothing more than fake news driven by a smear campaign against PlayStation.

There was also another state of play that focused on Godfall and it was like a half hour of indies as well.

 

[SlimySnake]

I have a plausible explanation for this! The fault is us gamers!!!

that was at the time a lot of uproar about “women’s depiction”

we gamers demand better graphics

most said indie games were not games

And so on.. really, what kind of signals does this produce on a gaming company?

also had to the fact that anything is a good cause for a console war and here we are, one company being risk averse, another one who can’t even produce new big IPs so they need to buy 3rd party studios...


It’s a mess.

I think it's just straight up greed. We see this all the time from corporations. I dont think gamers or consumers are to blamed. We went out and bought 5 million copies of Days Gone. WTF more can we do?

Sony made their name on better graphics and showing everyone what their consoles could do. I brought up the MGS2 E3 demo earlier. It's what defined an entire generation and set expectations for every generation leap going forward.

it's not unfair to expect Sony to keep doing what they have been doing. Sony is doing what men and women usually do after getting married. They get complacent. They stop doing things that made them attractive to the other person. They either let themselves go or just stop making an effort to please the other person. People buy consoles on faith. People buy PS consoles knowing Sony would continue to make games that made them who are today. Team Ico games. Kojima games. If you marry a woman who is outgoing, loves seeing the world, and then lock her in a suburban house while you sit home all day and play video games, shes not gonna wanna stick around. It usually leads to a bitter divorce.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Ignoring the fact that half of those games arent made by Sony first party studios, these arent really games I would consider AAA. We are talking about games that were far bigger than indie games no gave a shit about. Ico, SOTC, The Last Guardian, Death Stranding, Days Gone, Detroit, The Order, Until Dawn, Bloodborne, Warhawk, MAG, Socom. These are not the kind of games Shu will be able to greenlight as head of indie games. This is all on Herman, and unless I am mistaken because of Sony being tight lipped like they are guarding nuclear secrets instead of running an entertainment company, Sony has not replaced any of these games or studios.

I am not even one of those guys who want to play Mario, Zelda and Metroid until the day i die. I want them to go and do new IPs, but what I dont like to see is Sony cut relationships with studios and cut down teams to focus on studios that are simply not going to be able to churn out games. They didnt last gen and they wont this gen. Bend, SSM, PD all released a total of 1 game last gen. Sucker Punch released 2 and they barely made the end of the gen. They are due for their next game in 2026 if history is any indication.

Sony relied on those Japan Studio games to fill in the gaps. This is the argument in this video. They relied on KojiPro. They relied on Sony Bend which was literally their only first party AAA game in 2019. in 2015, they had zero first party titles. The Order, Bloodborne and Until Dawn were all third party studios making Sony IPs, and Sony killed the relationship with all those studios. If you take out DriveClub from 2014, Infamous is the only Sony exclusive that year. if you take out Knack, PS4 only launches with KZSF. Let's look at what the PS4 AAA lineup would look like without these studios.

2013 - KZSF
2014 - Infamous
2015 - Nothing
2016 - Ratchet, Uncharted 4
2017 - Horizon, Uncharted Lost Legacy, GT7
2018 - GoW, Spiderman
2019 - Days Gone
2020 - Dreams, Miles, TLOU, Ghost

Thats it. 3 years with just one AAA game. (Thats MS levels of bad)
1 with ZERO games. (worse than Microsoft)
2 years with just 2 games. OK at best.
and 2 years with 3-4 games. Literally 2 great years out of 8.

Clearly, their first party AAA studios arent equipped to do it alone. Which explains why Jimbo was trying to go all Phil Spencer a la Rise of Tomb Raider and paying off companies to keep third party multiplatform games off of Xbox.

most of the games you listed were either extremely disappointing or took a decade to make

a title like Kena looks much better than something generic like WarHawk to me

like I said, the games I listed may not be AAA simply because AAA is now AAAA

but they are definitely a tier above most indies and taking more risks with better production values

 

[FatKingBallman]

Ignoring the fact that half of those games arent made by Sony first party studios, these arent really games I would consider AAA

Sony relied on those Japan Studio games to fill in the gaps. This is the argument in this video. They relied on KojiPro. They relied on Sony Bend which was literally their only first party AAA game in 2019.

Lol. How about MLB 19? :/

Btw. 2019

• • Concrete Genie
  • Days Gone
  • Death Stranding
  • MediEvil
  • MLB The Show 19
  • Monkey King: Hero Is Back (Published by Sony Interactive Entertainment in Asia only)
• PlayStation Network
  • Dreams (Early Access)
  • Erica
  • ReadySet Heroes
• PlayStation VR
  • Blood & Truth
  • Everybody's Golf VR
  • Immortal Legacy: The Jade Cipher

Your post is ignorant just like that IGN video. Full of crap! Lol, Sony relied just on KojiPro and Bend.... :/

 

[Bonfires Down]

It seems that Sony is moving toward funding or buying exclusivity from other developers for mid budget games like Returnal, Kena and Little Devil Inside. I reckon they will consider acquiring the studios if the games sell well. Seems like a sound plan to me. No need to bloat your payroll before the developer has proven themself.

 

[Zeroing]

I think it's just straight up greed. We see this all the time from corporations. I dont think gamers or consumers are to blamed. We went out and bought 5 million copies of Days Gone. WTF more can we do?

Sony made their name on better graphics and showing everyone what their consoles could do. I brought up the MGS2 E3 demo earlier. It's what defined an entire generation and set expectations for every generation leap going forward.

it's not unfair to expect Sony to keep doing what they have been doing. Sony is doing what men and women usually do after getting married. They get complacent. They stop doing things that made them attractive to the other person. They either let themselves go or just stop making an effort to please the other person. People buy consoles on faith. People buy PS consoles knowing Sony would continue to make games that made them who are today. Team Ico games. Kojima games. If you marry a woman who is outgoing, loves seeing the world, and then lock her in a suburban house while you sit home all day and play video games, shes not gonna wanna stick around. It usually leads to a bitter divorce.

While I agree I think what you said can be apply to any other gaming companies and we gave everyone one a “ok you can do it” in the name of brand loyalty. Microtransations, lootboxes, pay for online, ads on the UI etc etc.

Can we truly just blame one company when for example the others done worse or the same? and we done nothing about it?

while we are here discussing it, we all missed how gaming websites are no longer unbiased, how hidden marketing is becoming a norm...

So yeah I still think we gamers are the ones to blame because gaming is not just one company, it’s the sum of everything!

 

[SlimySnake]

something generic like WarHawk to me

OMG. That's blasphemous! I am glad Lost had a shit ending. lol

Funny thing about Warhawk is that in 2007 there was pretty much else nothing like it. Battlefield did not become big on consoles until 2009, and cod was just boots on the ground back then.

 

[Banjo64]

No such thing as a sure fire hit, which is why you need more studios, not less.

Santa Monica’s last game before GoW 2018; GoW Ascension. 80 metacritic.

Guerrilla’s last game before Horizon Zero Dawn; Killzone Shadow Fall. 73 metacritic.

Sucker Punch’s last game before Ghost of Tsushima; Infamous Second Son. 80 metacritic.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

OMG. That's blasphemous! I am glad Lost had a shit ending. lol

Funny thing about Warhawk is that in 2007 there was pretty much else nothing like it. Battlefield did not become big on consoles until 2009, and cod was just boots on the ground back then.

I credit it for being unique but it just wasn’t very fun to play imho.

and while I love TLG, it’s clear that project was a train wreck

 

[McCarth]

The stupidity is endless. Too big to fail in a consumer product? Someone tell that to MS with Halo: Infinite.

There is no such thing. This industry' media is beyond hope; forever juvenile.

 

[Dream-Knife]

The problem is games are too expensive to make, and the market like the same stuff until it doesn't.

I have a gut feeling there will be another video game crash. Not horribly bad, but significant enough that it will change the industry.

 

[Dr Kaneda]

I don't know if this list was supposed to back up the fact PS5 has good exclusives coming or reinforce the doom and gloom side?

You basically just listed Demons Souls (there's an S in DemonS, for god's sake) which isn't for everybody and a remake to boot, kiddy cartoony platformers, Fortnite on wheels that couldn't get anybody to play it even after making it free, a horrible looter with a 12 month exclusive window, and a AA roguelite that admittingly looks pretty good.

This is not a list I personally would boast about but you do you.

No one is boasting about the list, they're using it as evidence for the variety of games Sony has released in just 6 months of this new gen.

People can't complain about Sony's output lacking "variety" then in the same breath moan that a certain game "isn't for everybody", others are a "kiddy cartoon", another is selling poorly and the last is "AA". Loool. That's what "variety" gets you, take it or leave it.

Sony bend literally took 7.5 years to ship days gone. Their last game was uncharted vita which launched in December 2011.

Ghost of Tsushima came out 6.5 years after infamous. Again, your math is off.

My math is fine, you just need to engage your brain a little instead of being a spacker that's desperate to spin a narrative. By your shoulder licking conceptualisation here that would mean Ratchet and Clank A Rift Apart is only going to take Insomniac 6 months to make since their last games Miles Morales came out in Nov 2020

Days Gone started development in 2015. Read and educate yourself

news

news

www.gamasutra.com

I know it must be tricky for you to do research beyond a cursory level, but I'm afraid it's going to take a little more effort than if you want to have a serious discussion in which you don't get buried.

Kojima is also very good at developing games fast but he's not a ps studio and jimbo said no to his game. That's a huge part of the issue.

Insomniac games were not a PS Studio either until 2019. Since becoming a PS Studio they're about to release 2 games in less than two years so it looks like being acquired by Sony increased your output going by your braindead logic here again.

Being a PS Studio is completely irrelevant when Sony funds and overseas a project IN FULL FROM START TO FINISH. So as Death Stranding proves, Sony can easily provide the funding AND support to release a brand new IP from the ground up in a matter of years.

And we have no idea if Sony said no to Kojima's next game or not, there's not even been a single rumour even alluding to anything like that. The opposite in fact, rumours suggest Sony are still working with KojiPro to release Death Stranding Extended Edition.

If you think I'm using only horizon, you aren't paying attention.

Killzone Shadow Fall released 2013, Horizon released 2017. 4 years for GG to release games.
Uncharted TLL released 2017, TLoU2 released 2020. 3 years for ND to release games.
Shadow of the Colossus released 2018, Demon's Souls released 2020. 2 years for BluePoint to release games.

Even when we play you spastic game you still lose. It's not remotely how game development works but have it your way.....

 

[Neo Blaster]

 

[Lokaum D+]

Ignoring the fact that half of those games arent made by Sony first party studios, these arent really games I would consider AAA. We are talking about games that were far bigger than indie games no gave a shit about. Ico, SOTC, The Last Guardian, Death Stranding, Days Gone, Detroit, The Order, Until Dawn, Bloodborne, Warhawk, MAG, Socom. These are not the kind of games Shu will be able to greenlight as head of indie games. This is all on Herman, and unless I am mistaken because of Sony being tight lipped like they are guarding nuclear secrets instead of running an entertainment company, Sony has not replaced any of these games or studios.

I am not even one of those guys who want to play Mario, Zelda and Metroid until the day i die. I want them to go and do new IPs, but what I dont like to see is Sony cut relationships with studios and cut down teams to focus on studios that are simply not going to be able to churn out games. They didnt last gen and they wont this gen. Bend, SSM, PD all released a total of 1 game last gen. Sucker Punch released 2 and they barely made the end of the gen. They are due for their next game in 2026 if history is any indication.

Sony relied on those Japan Studio games to fill in the gaps. This is the argument in this video. They relied on KojiPro. They relied on Sony Bend which was literally their only first party AAA game in 2019. in 2015, they had zero first party titles. The Order, Bloodborne and Until Dawn were all third party studios making Sony IPs, and Sony killed the relationship with all those studios. If you take out DriveClub from 2014, Infamous is the only Sony exclusive that year. if you take out Knack, PS4 only launches with KZSF. Let's look at what the PS4 AAA lineup would look like without these studios.

2013 - KZSF
2014 - Infamous
2015 - Nothing
2016 - Ratchet, Uncharted 4
2017 - Horizon, Uncharted Lost Legacy, GT7
2018 - GoW, Spiderman
2019 - Days Gone
2020 - Dreams, Miles, TLOU, Ghost

Thats it. 3 years with just one AAA game. (Thats MS levels of bad)
1 with ZERO games. (worse than Microsoft)
2 years with just 2 games. OK at best.
and 2 years with 3-4 games. Literally 2 great years out of 8.

Clearly, their first party AAA studios arent equipped to do it alone. Which explains why Jimbo was trying to go all Phil Spencer a la Rise of Tomb Raider and paying off companies to keep third party multiplatform games off of Xbox.

Can u educate me how often MS realeses exclusives Goty quality games ?

 

[SlimySnake]

My math is fine, you just need to engage your brain a little instead of being a spacker that's desperate to spin a narrative. By your shoulder licking conceptualisation here that would mean Ratchet and Clank A Rift Apart is only going to take Insomniac 6 months to make since their last games Miles Morales came out in Nov 2020

Days Gone started development in 2015. Read and educate yourself

I know it must be tricky for you to do research beyond a cursory level, but I'm afraid it's going to take a little more effort than if you want to have a serious discussion in which you don't get buried.

Killzone Shadow Fall released 2013, Horizon released 2017. 4 years for GG to release games.
Uncharted TLL released 2017, TLoU2 released 2020. 3 years for ND to release games.
Shadow of the Colossus released 2018, Demon's Souls released 2020. 2 years for BluePoint to release games.

Even when we play you spastic game you still lose. It's not remotely how game development works but have it your way.....

So On one hand, you you bring up time between releases like for Horizon, TLOU, and Demon Souls, and then completely ignore the time between releases in the following games I brought up:

- Days Gone - 7.5 years between releases
- Ghost of Tsushima - 6.5 years between releases
- GoW - 5+ years between releases
- Horizon 2 - 4+ years between release and likely 5 since it doesnt look to be coming out this year, but lets say it comes out in November, thats only 3 months short of a 5 year dev cycle.

Thats 4 out of the 6 AAA studios Sony has. Taking 5-7 years. I literally replied to you saying Insomniac is the only sony studio that gets games out fast. And thats because they have multiple teams and a history of releasing games every 2 years. ND is also productive and they will release a last gen multiplayer game and last gen remake this year. But when is their first full next gen game? Lets give it three years after 2021, we are looking at 2024.

If you are saying that all six studios will release games every 3 years like ND and Insomniac going forward, hey we can end the discussion right here. I couldnt be happier. Just one clarification though, Is Sony Bend's new game going to come out next April in 2022? Surely, your math points to it. And I guess Horizon 2 already came out in February 2020. GoW2 came out this April 2021. Except they didnt and likely wont for another 2 years after 2020.

Bringing up SOTC and Demon Souls as examples of AAA game dev cycles is pretty disingenuous. They famously literally copied and pasted the entire game both times, and run the original game's logic in the background. The 2 year dev time (close to 3 since SOTC came out in Feb 2018 and Demon Souls launched in November 2020) is basically them rebuilding the assets and making little to no changes to the gameplay. No additional levels. No additional bosses. No new weapons. No new enemies. Nothing. They are both the same exact game with fancier graphics. I love Demon Souls and beat it almost 15 times, but lets not pretend that it is even remotely the same as developing a game like Horizon, ghost, Days Gone or Gow. They aren't even full remakes like RE2, RE3 and FF7.

And yes, it's best that we dont even get into Sony ending their relationship with Kojima, Bluepoint and other studios because I can barely even tolerate kind of feminine snark seeping from the rest of your post. Literally every other sentence is snarky and bitchy lmao. If i wanted to argue with someone arguing like a woman on her period, I'd visit era.

 

[Dream-Knife]

If games are doing "more than fine" on PC and supposedly more titles are coming, then Sony should shut the PlayStation department down and become a software company.

Why? They sell plenty of $500 budget PCs to people and make 30% of all sales on those boxes.

console sales dont matter to microsoft, yet a majority of subscribers to gamepass are subscribed through an xbox console! if you take away xbox ones 50m consoles sold. how many gamepass subscribers would there be? if xbox one sold 150m consoles, how many gamepass subscriber would there be? think people! its pretty simple basic understanding! microsoft absolutely want to sell as many systems as possible! i get why hardcore xbox fans say the opposite but it just isnt true.

MS is trying to go the service route. Hopefully it fails for the greater good of gaming, but that model has little to do with console sales.

Exactly.... if I could make two corrections to their strategy it would be.... no AAA games go to PC but price hike remains.

and I would acquire either a publisher or several hand picked studios to bolster the 1st party.
Some of these games from the expansion would go to PC but not all.... if there were strategy games for instance or a multiplayer only game that needed a big playerbase.

They really need to reinforce their Japanese gaming scene and add diversity to their lineup.

"Muh plastic box"

They only made 25 million from Death Stranding on PC.... and that took resources away from updates for the PS5 version.

I think it is a waste porting the big AAA singleplayer games. They should just port MLB and games with multiplayer incorporating many mtx..... like the new factions game (TLOU).
That would bolster the community size and make good money.

Yes, they made 25 million vs making nothing as a free upgrade to some people who have already played the game.

It apparently made back it's money on console anyway, after that I don't know the exact figures.
The problem is.... it pissed off a lot of people to see games like Horizon and Days Gone go to PC. Those exclusives are supposed to be reasons to buy a PlayStation console. To have a PS4/5 beside your PC.... now they are undermining that especially with the AAA exclusive story games.

It also angers a good portion of PlayStation fans. I am not buying Returnal or any game at launch now except for R&C and that's cause I have a kid who I introduced to gaming through the 2016 R&C..... so I have a soft spot. I'll probably get attacked for saying that.... but I don't care, that's how I feel and I will act on it.

It's up to the people running PlayStation after that to figure out if it's worth it. But I will give them a 'slap in the face' every time I can.

So you're mad people can play games without buying the same budget box you own?

Maybe for you its difficult to understand, but since 15 years ago (approx.) just "selling products" doesn't work. Companies have been selling "solutions", which comprise not only the product, but service as well. That scheme allows companies to have a constant stream of revenue, while maintaining "brand loyalty". IBM and Dell were the first ones, and soon other software and tech companies followed (seeing how much more money they made that way).

Heck, just look at Adobe: they don't even sell you their star product (Adobe Photoshop), but rather sell you a subscription to their products and to Adobe Cloud.

Software subscriptions are the way to go, even if gamers dislike it. The entire software industry is already there and games are the last ones getting there.

That will just lead to piracy and an industry crash, or at the very least a collapse of the core gamer market.

In a single gen on PS2, in the space of 4 years, Sony released the following character/mascot platformer/action adventures exclusive games

Jak and Daxter
Jak II
Jak 3

Ratchet and Clank
Going Commando
Up your Arsenal
Ratchet: Deadlocked

Sly Cooper
Sly Cooper 2
Sly Cooper 3

In the space of 7 years Sony released the following FPS games (all put 1 were in a single gen as well)

Resistance 1
Resistance 2
Resistance 3

Killzone 2
Killzone 3
Killzone Shadow Fall

MAG

This idea that Sony were churning a new IP/genre of game every year is false. They've ALWAYS gone with trends and rode them until they weren't successful, and as evidenced above they did it in a more aggressive manner then they do now. Imagine if they released TEN 3rd person cinematic shooting games in a single gen? They released just 3 in TLoU2, Uncharted 4 and TLL last gen and people are going crazy.

Across the entire industry input is down on pervious gens, particularly the PS1/PS2 eras, that's an issue for EVERYONE, not just Sony. So yeah I agree I'd like Sony and R* and Microsoft etc.. and everyone to release more games like they used and that would lead to more variety but it's just not going to happen with the costs involved. So that means fewer games and that means focusing on games you know are going to be successful. That's just the reality.

Those games were in response to what the industry was doing at the time with the exception of Sly Cooper.

Not to mention Sony of old would have purchased Kojima's new studio a heartbeat after he started it and made it an exclusive PlayStation studio. Instead, we are hearing reports that Kojima's pitch for a new game was rejected by Sony and that he is in negotiations to work with outside partners. That would have been unheard of even just 5 years ago.

Kojima wasn't for sale.

 

[SlimySnake]

Can u educate me how often MS realeses exclusives Goty quality games ?

You must not know my post history.

 

[Lokaum D+]

You must not know my post history.

its really a simple question, can u aswer ?

 

[Outrunner]

Are we now complaining that Sony is making lots of BIG successful games? Where is the concern of MS almost not making anything worthwhile for more than a decade? Funny

It's a weird timeline to be in.

 

[SlimySnake]

its really a simple question, can u aswer ?

I couldnt care less about Microsoft. I am a sony fan. This is about Sony, and their output.

And I have made that GOTY argument more times than your post count over the last 8 years or so on this very board.

 

[LMJ]

The very fact that Sony is preparing to release a PSVR 2 seems to disagree with this sentiment...

Like I've said I'm not happy about the Store closures or the downsizing/restructuring of Japan Studios...but I get it, but Sony is clearly still supporting smaller projects, or I doubt each console would have come with that amazing Astrobots game, or they would have bothered with Destruction Allstars or LBP...Let alone Kira, Deathloop and that's not including the exclusive indie titles...

(get it)

 

[SlimySnake]

It's a weird timeline to be in.

It's really not. Microsoft has been raked over the coals for their awful output this gen by hundreds of gamers like myself on this very board. Xbox fans here can attest to that. It's bizarre for me to here that MS was somehow let off scot free because I myself have spent years shitting on Microsoft along with the rest of Sony gaf who make up 90% of this board.

The difference is that MS has gone out of its way to change that by acquiring studios left and right. While Sony seems to be doing the opposite and shutting down or gutting beloved internal studios, and ending relationships with studios that produced GOTY winners.

I will be the first one to say that if Sony shows up at E3 with the following games, I would have zero issues with ANYTHING they have done recently:

- KojiPro - Death Stranding 2 or a new IP
- Bluepoint Games - MGS remake
- Next Gen GOW2 ( They can have a third party studio downport the game to last gen if they want)
- Next Gen Horizon 2 (ditto)
- Next Gen GT7
- Next Gen TLOU remake/Factions.
- New IP teaser from Cory
- New IP teaser from ND
- New IP teaser from Guerrilla Games

Those teasers shouldnt be hard to produce if the dev has been going on simultaneously and if they are trying to convince us that they can get games out every 3 years or so.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

I hope they go all in on AAA how ever many As

Invest in your studios Jim, get those aquisitions rolling.

Turn Media Molecule into a support studio or something. Don't care about their games.

If I want low budget crap i'll buy a Nintendo Switch

 

[GametimeUK]

The reason I loved the PS3 so much was because of Sony's exclusives and the fact they pushed their console to have the most features. If you would have told me back then that I would be more of a MS guy in 2020 I would have called you crazy. It seems a lot of the reasons I loved the PS3 are the same reason I love my Series X. It's like MS are pushing the more interesting ideas, but Sony are playing it way too safe.

It's even the simple things like digital refunds and being able to output 1440p. Backwards compatibility and game preservation etc. It used to be Sony who had the more flexible features. What the hell happened?

There's no denying that the Sony 1st party games will still more than likely be my fave of the generation, but the actual platform itself isn't compelling.

 

[FatKingBallman]

While Sony seems to be doing the opposite and shutting down or gutting beloved internal studios, and ending relationships with studios that produced GOTY winners.

Which studios are?

 

[Outrunner]

thoughts and prayers for sony but mostly for all the people who jumped in the fake concern band wagon.

 

[FatKingBallman]

It's like MS are pushing the more interesting ideas, but Sony are playing it way too safe.

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong..........WRONG! PSVR wasn't safe at all. It was a damn risk, PSVR 2 isn't safe play, Returnal isn't safe play, DualSense alone with it features isn't safe, new Bend Studios IP isn't safe, new unannounced game from Insomniac isn't safe ( if it is new IP ), and what else....SSD, yeah. Sony didn't bet on GPU must be more powerful ( which is SAFE ), but on SSD and like John Linneman said : "it's a fundamental shift" regarding game designs and i think, while 3rd party devs ( not referring to 3rd party funded exclusive games, but multiplatform ones ) won't use it like it should, 1st party studios will surely change their game designs heavily. I think Returnal is something we should see soon. And after that Ratchet.

Btw. what Jeff Ross said :



I'll bet that Jeff wouldn't be that kind about Jim and surely he would go to Schreier if he was left from WWS under bad terms.

 

[SLB1904]

S are pushing the more interesting ideas, but Sony are playing it way too safe.

It's even the simple things like digital refunds and being able to output 1440p. Backwards compatibility and game preservation etc. It used to be Sony who had the more flexible features. What the hell happened?

 

[Flutta]

The reason I loved the PS3 so much was because of Sony's exclusives and the fact they pushed their console to have the most features. If you would have told me back then that I would be more of a MS guy in 2020 I would have called you crazy. It seems a lot of the reasons I loved the PS3 are the same reason I love my Series X. It's like MS are pushing the more interesting ideas, but Sony are playing it way too safe.

It's even the simple things like digital refunds and being able to output 1440p. Backwards compatibility and game preservation etc. It used to be Sony who had the more flexible features. What the hell happened?

There's no denying that the Sony 1st party games will still more than likely be my fave of the generation, but the actual platform itself isn't compelling.

LMAO

 

[Bryank75]

Why? They sell plenty of $500 budget PCs to people and make 30% of all sales on those boxes.

MS is trying to go the service route. Hopefully it fails for the greater good of gaming, but that model has little to do with console sales.

"Muh plastic box"

Yes, they made 25 million vs making nothing as a free upgrade to some people who have already played the game.

So you're mad people can play games without buying the same budget box you own?

That will just lead to piracy and an industry crash, or at the very least a collapse of the core gamer market.

Those games were in response to what the industry was doing at the time with the exception of Sly Cooper.

Kojima wasn't for sale.

I just want the install base to be as big as it can be.... why are you making it about me?
I find their approach to business to be frustrating, they undermine their own work. Particularly people like Jim Ryan who are just salesmen and have no passion for the industry.

The console model is best when it has more users, as it can use economies of scale to get better parts for cheaper through bigger order quantities and then the install base can support bigger more ambitious games and more experimental titles due to the model of the platform holder taking 30% from all sales.

It makes sense if you think about it...

 

[reinking]

How original....













..what? months ago when this narrative started?

 

[The Hamburglar]

Hmmm game pass circle jerk threads everyday by random posters or websites saying why its amazing.

Jim Ryan/Sony/PlayStation fud or concern threads everyday

And people unironically saying sonygaf lol!

Also for those people on the first page saying console says don’t matter any more.. these are the types they believe anything out of Phil and ms mouth.

Xbox stopped reported sales because they were losing . Then all of a sudden they started saying console sales don’t matter any more. Repeat the lie enough times and people will believe it.

 

[megreotsugua]

I don't know if this list was supposed to back up the fact PS5 has good exclusives coming or reinforce the doom and gloom side?

You basically just listed Demons Souls (there's an S in DemonS, for god's sake) which isn't for everybody and a remake to boot, kiddy cartoony platformers, Fortnite on wheels that couldn't get anybody to play it even after making it free, a horrible looter with a 12 month exclusive window, and a AA roguelite that admittingly looks pretty good.

This is not a list I personally would boast about but you do you.

Do they look like hollywood movies to you?

 

[Hobbygaming]

I always liked Sony for investing into less mainstream games like:
ICO, SotC, Tha Last Guardian, Gravity Rush, Nier, Motorstorm etc.

Thanks to that we are got whole Souls genre - Demon's Souls is what it started. Beside huge AAA games they were always trying something niche and some of those games were trully brilliant. I really don't like focus only on BLOCKBUSTERS. I like Uncharted but is pretty medicore to me - fun shooting with good graphic. Bloodborne and Shadow of The Colossus on the other hand are masterpieces that I absoluetly love.

The problem is the game-developing cost are too high right now and it's better (from financial perspective) to do safe bet. But without those risks the PlayStation brand would not be where it is now.

The moment Sony stop making interesting new titles is the momen when they will start going downhill. You can see what happened to Microsoft when they tried to continue they brands like Gow and Forza for years withoout anything new... If all Sony has to offer is MORE Uncharted, GOW, Horizon, GoT - i think some players will burn out.

 

[Banjo64]

Looks like a

 

[The_Mike]

Sony feels like it’s going for the causal market that only buys the big games like last of us and uncharted. Leaving the more hardcore gamers getting there fix elsewhere.

Sonys being going for the casual market since always with the exception of Bloodborne.

Hardcore gamers and hardcore fanboys ain't the same thing.

 

[TheGodfather07]

It's really not. Microsoft has been raked over the coals for their awful output this gen by hundreds of gamers like myself on this very board. Xbox fans here can attest to that. It's bizarre for me to here that MS was somehow let off scot free because I myself have spent years shitting on Microsoft along with the rest of Sony gaf who make up 90% of this board.

The difference is that MS has gone out of its way to change that by acquiring studios left and right. While Sony seems to be doing the opposite and shutting down or gutting beloved internal studios, and ending relationships with studios that produced GOTY winners.

I will be the first one to say that if Sony shows up at E3 with the following games, I would have zero issues with ANYTHING they have done recently:

- KojiPro - Death Stranding 2 or a new IP
- Bluepoint Games - MGS remake
- Next Gen GOW2 ( They can have a third party studio downport the game to last gen if they want)
- Next Gen Horizon 2 (ditto)
- Next Gen GT7
- Next Gen TLOU remake/Factions.
- New IP teaser from Cory
- New IP teaser from ND
- New IP teaser from Guerrilla Games

Those teasers shouldnt be hard to produce if the dev has been going on simultaneously and if they are trying to convince us that they can get games out every 3 years or so.

patience. consoles usually last for atleast 5-6 years. with covid it could possibly be much longer this time round. we are barely 6 months in. have some patience. havent sony earned some trust after being in the industry for over 25 years? after giving us some amazing games and consoles during that time? if ps5 is lacking games by 2023, than we can complain.

 

[TheGodfather07]

Sonys being going for the casual market since always with the exception of Bloodborne.

Hardcore gamers and hardcore fanboys ain't the same thing.

define whats casual and whats hardcore? difficulty? camera perspective? cutscenes? gameplay? i would say sony's games capture both the hardcore and casual. a good mix of the two.

 

[The_Mike]

define whats casual and whats hardcore? difficulty? camera perspective? cutscenes? gameplay? i would say sony's games capture both the hardcore and casual. a good mix of the two.

Can you mention the games you categorise as for the hardcore audience?

 

[TheGodfather07]

Can you mention the games you categorise as for the hardcore audience?

can you not answer my question with a question and answer it first before asking me a question?

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

What the fuck is a hardcore game lmao?

 

[The_Mike]

define whats casual and whats hardcore? difficulty? camera perspective? cutscenes? gameplay? i would say sony's games capture both the hardcore and casual. a good mix of the two.

I define games like TLOU and uncharted as casual.

Games in general where gameplay is secondary and the story is the main driven the game.

I know there's also other games as well like spider man, but let's be real it's mostly games like TLOU and uc Sony is known for and does well.

Now its your turn.

 

[Magnific0giganticus]

Actually Microsoft made PS4 so succesful with tvtvtv, always on, copy protection and number 1 reason: 100 bucks more expensive on release. Sony would have sold easily 90-100 million consoles without a single exclusive game. Casuals don't give a shit about exclusive games.

Exclusive sell HARDWARE. Spider-Man would like a word with you. It seems you think investing in exclusive games isn't worth it. Even MS got tired of fighting that losing war, my friend, why do you think they shelled out 7.5B on Zenimax?

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

I define games like TLOU and uncharted as casual.

Games in general where gameplay is secondary and the story is the main driven the game.

I know there's also other games as well like spider man, but let's be real it's mostly games like TLOU and uc Sony is known for and does well.

Now its your turn.

So, Sony's catered to the casuals because of PS3 gen naughty dog?

ohhhhh kay lol

ALl this time i thought casuals were the COD/Fifa crowd, but apprently they're the hardcore lol

 

[TheGodfather07]

I define games like TLOU and uncharted as casual.

Games in general where gameplay is secondary and the story is the main driven the game.

I know there's also other games as well like spider man, but let's be real it's mostly games like TLOU and uc Sony is known for and does well.

Now its your turn.

but how is gameplay secondary? its like any other 3rd person game? you control a character. you have weapons and you shoot and kill enemies. just because it has cutscenes and a actual story and with realistic animations? i dont understand. can you explain further? uncharted even more so baffling. the ps3 trilogy especially is the definition of gameplay! all your doing is shooting for most of the game. i would understand if you said the games aint to your personal liking and taste but casual? i dont follow.