Knitted Knight
Banned
This thread is for a branched off discussion about some of the topics that were discussed in Geoff Keighley's interview with Eric Lempel earlier today. Many good questions were asked that are outside the scope of the Dualsense controller and I think those topics merit discussion considering the clear contrast in strategies both Microsoft and Sony are employing to distance themselves from each other.
If you want to solely discuss the Dualsense hand-ons please visit the other thread here: Dualsense Thread
At your leisure read up the dirty homemade transcription of the interview (don't ask
). The bold parts are the topics that I find of interest to this discussion. I want to know if you agree or disagree with the promise of Playstation as laid out by Eric Lempel, or broadly speaking; do you believe in generations as they've come before? The alternative of course is Microsoft's strategy for this upcoming generation. That is to blur the lines of generations with cross-generational support as laid out by Phil Spencer and Team Xbox. In case you don't know already, or need a refresh here is Team Xbox official stance: Xbox Wire, Future of Gaming and Phil here: Recent WaPo Interview
Transcript:
Geoff:
Well I had a lot of fun playing with the Dualsense controller and Astro's Playroom and I wanted to get a little bit more of information. So joining me now is the worldwide head of marketing for PS Eric Lempel… Eric..
Skipping to the Juicy part:
Eric Lempel:
It’s true. As we’ve said many times, with PS5 it’s a brand new generation and we believe in generations. So we want to evolve every part of the experience and the controller is really the most intimate part of the experience. It’s the extension of the player.
So you know we thought a lot about this. One of the things we could have done is iterate on the Dualshock. We’ve done that for many years. You know the gamers absolutely love the Dualshock. They tell us it’s the best controller we’ve ever made. But we thought, no, lets go a step further. Lets see how a new generation makes press a whole new feeling. And that is how the Dualsense came about. So early on the plan was to evolve the experience. And you know there are many parts to that experience. But this is a really unique part that truly takes a step forward in gaming.
Geoff:
You’ve mentioned you believe in generations. I guess it’s a bit of a controversial opinion to some people about this idea that generations sort of break with the past. And I wanted you to maybe talk a bit about that because it does seem like this is a cardinal sort of virtue of the Playstation promise. That there is this sort of break with the past with a new generation; with a new console game optimized for that system versus kind of working across, you know, multiple devices and multiple generations. Can you maybe give us a little bit more perspective on the controller being a part of that view which is obviously counter to what we see in Xbox (saying something different around that)? Why is that so important to Playstation as a principle of this architecture for the PS5?
Eric Lempel:
Well specifically for us, a big pillar of our company is innovation. It’s a pillar of Sony Corporation. It’s also a pillar of the Playstation company. We’re always trying to push the boundaries. You know we push the boundaries of play. That’s what we say internally, wanting to excite gamers, wanting to deliver new experiences. So as we go into a new piece of hardware it really has to check a box on a lot of different areas to fulfill those promises. And we've talked to a lot of developers about this. We’ve gone out there and talked to people about what they want in a next-generation console. To do that you really gotta deliver a lot. And I think what’s really unique about the Dualsense is that it plays into another one of your senses. We’re covering a lot of the senses with PS5. First and foremost I think gaming fidelity, the first sense is seeing, it's the visuals, it’s the graphics. Naturally with every generation the graphics improve and with the PS5 we’re taking a step forward there. Then there is Sound. And we’re introducing a new form of 3D-Audio, which will be really powerful no matter what you’re playing or how you’re playing. And then the next piece is touch.
And you know touch has been around for a while and we’ve had force feedback. We’ve had different types of force feedback, the rumble in the dualshock but this takes that to a whole new level. Similar to leaps in gaming graphics from previous generations. This brings it to a whole new place. It’s haptic feedback, it’s the adaptive dynamic triggers. It’s something no one’s ever experienced before. And it brings you closer to the game.
You know the biggest joy for us is putting it in the hands of developers because developers want to push the technology as far as it can go. They do this to tell stories and really bring the gamer into their worlds. We believe all of these things combined as well as all the other great PS5 features we’ve spoke about really lead to a next generation experience. And in many cases we can’t take everybody with us from previous consoles into that experience. You need new hardware, you need new devices to experience what these developers want you to experience.
Geoff:
And so I imagine, you know, PS4 will still have games coming out for it. It’s not like the pipeline stops there. But there is a new set of experiences that will be exclusive to PS5 right?
Eric Lempel:
Exactly, PS4 is a big part of everything we do and it will continue to be part of everything we do. There is a lot more to come on Playstion 4. I think most recently we’re seeing some of the greatest titles this generation. They have released in recent weeks. And it will continue. There is a lot to come for people in PS4. There is a ton of life in that product.
Geoff:
When I was playing Astro's Playroom one of the things that my mind started racing with was thinking how this is going to apply to a game like Ratchet. You know a similar gameplay style, but with the audio, the speaker in the Dualsense, and the haptics and the adaptive triggers. One feature we haven’t talked much about is the SSD, and that sort of input/output on the device and how that’s going to allow a lot of interesting things. When I saw the event in June; that Ratchet trailer just blew me away. Like jumping between those worlds so quickly. Could you maybe talk a bit about like that feature? Which I really didn’t you know; I don’t think Astro's Playroom is a game that really needs the SSD to function the way it’s. Can you talk a little bit about the SSD and how that’s gonna impact the experience?
Eric Lempel:
Sure, sure. And this ties back nicely to your question about generations because when you look at a game like Ratchet and we’ve talked about a lot of different features today. But as you’ve mentioned, we haven’t mentioned the SSD. That is another thing that will make the whole gaming experience different. It will make it better but it also allows the developer do new things. It isn’t just about faster loading times. You take a great developer like Insomniac and they found a way to say “Ok look, here is a game that can only be made on PS5, on this generation, using this technology”. A lot of what you saw on the show; jumping through those different worlds, instantly, just can’t be done in most cases. It needs new hardware, it needs new power. So that is something we’re looking forward to. All of these things come together. You combine that with 3D audio, with the controller, Raytracing. These are great experiences. And these developers know how to harness every piece of those features to really bring you a unique experience. And that really speaks to what next-gen is for us.
Geoff:
So in that Ratchet game like, couldn’t be done on PS4? I guess if you did you would have to fundamentally change the architecture and gameplay of it?
Eric Lempel:
You would have to change it. You would have to change the way the game works. It’s just, it would be a different experience. According to everything that Insomniac has told us this hardware allows them to deliver on this vision. They could NOT make otherwise. If they did it would be different. You would be playing a different type of game and the experience would be different.
Geoff:
I have to say, after playing with the controller, dualsense, the experience, I guess I’ve a sense of where you’re taking things moving forward. And lets talk a bit about that. You guys had the big event. So many great titles. Gamers are very excited about PS5. There were rumours this week that pre-orders were happening and twitter lit up. I don’t know where these rumours start but I have to ask you. Are you about to press a button for pre-orders? When can we get expect to get our PS5?
Eric Lempel:
No, definitely not now. We don’t know what happened there . We had nothing to do with it. I got a message from someone saying “people are lining up at stores” and we had no idea why. So I think it’s safe to say to your viewers that we’ll let you know when pre-orders will happen. It’s not gonna happen with a minute’s notice. We’re going to at some point let you know when you can pre-order a PS5. So please don’t feel like you have to go run out and line up anywhere until you receive official notice in how all of that works. Don't know what happened, or who did it (we do). It wasn’t us. (busted "insider")
Geoff:
But look I mean as a marketer you must love to see so much anticipation for your product?
Eric Lempel:
No look, we absolutely love all the playstation fans and we’re thrilled that they’re excited about this product. And again with the PS5 we’re trying to bring them experiences they didn’t think were possible. And you know you’re experiencing some of that. I’m glad you had the experience that you did because that’s what we’re hoping to get out of this. You know unfortunately given the situation in the world we would of loved to be out there having gamers start to touch the product. We would of done that in normal years. We can’t do that now. It’s really hard. I know there are a lot of people watching this and they’re gonna really wonder like, what are they talking about?
Geoff:
They’re gonna be angry at me. Saying why why…
Eric Lempel:
Why did Jeff get to do it? I think it’s really hard to describe. You’ve heard us talk about it but now you’ve gone through the experience and you can see it. It’s different.
Geoff:
One thing I wanted to ask you about. We’ve known each other a long time and I’m excited that you’re in this worldwide role for Playstation, to kind of unify the messaging around the world. There is a new tag line around Playstation that showed up in the event in June. I think it was the first time that people have seen it. Can you maybe talk us about this new tag-line that’s global for Playstation.
Eric Lempel:
Certainly, and thanks for noticing that. That was actually the last bit of the show, the last thing we showed. This new line which is “Play has no Limits”. As you’ve said we’ve known each other a long time and you’ve known how the Playstation organization is structured. And in the past we were really separate groups around the world that all worked together and laddered up to a parent company. In recent years we started to globalize and we’ve seen great benefits from that in many parts of the organization. So another part of this was the marketing piece. And really if you look at great brands around the world they all feel similar, or at least to a great degree similar. A part of that is the global brand line and these lines, if they’re good, they stand the test of time and they stick with the brand for a long time. This was a hard job for the team. We went back and we looked at this and we thought what type of line will really satisfy the world and at the same time live up to our ambition as a company, as a brand. That was “Play has no Limits”. That is what we believe. And there is many different ways to interpret it. I’ll leave it to the viewers to interpret it the way they like.
For us it’s about speaking to innovation, and speaking about new experiences you can have with Playstation that you never expected. Really it’s how we push ourselves. We don’t constraint ourselves. We want to push the limits of gaming all the time. Right up to the end of everything we do, we’re constantly pushing to deliver something new, something best in class.
I’m excited about this. I would say Jeff, "you’ve been around the industry for a long time". I would challenge you to name all the Playstation tag-lines this past generation around the world. You couldn’t because there were a ton of them.
Geoff:
I was gonna say I know “Greatness Awaits” but beyond that… it’s like…
Eric Lempel:
There were a lot of them. That’s why we really wanted to get this together. And of course the line will be localized.
Geoff:
Was “4 the Players” something in the UK maybe?
Eric Lempel:
Yes exactly, it was the line that was used across most parts of Europe, but there were a lot of them. So we looked at this and we said lets get one line that solidifies the brand. Also the look and feel of the brand is changing slightly and you saw some of that in the event a few weeks ago and that will also be global. So it will be a strong global ________ . (if you understood what word came out of his mouth here, please leave a reply and help me expand my English vocab lmao).
Geoff:
Again there is a lot of love for Playstation, and what you guys have teased us with for PS5. It has been an interesting rollout where you never know what’s going to pop out on twitter. The box art itself trending? Who knows what’s next? I can’t let you go without asking. Everyone online wants to know if we’re gonna get other colors of controllers or consoles? I imagine for launch it’s very hard just to get one out but…… Is that on the roadmap?
Eric Lempel:
We’ll talk about it as some point. As you’ve mentioned it’s a hard enough job to get the unit that we’ve showed out but we’ll talk about it at some time. (Looks like we're not getting that black baby at launch).
Geoff:
Well we know there will be two of them come out. A digital one as well coming out. We’re excited to see what’s in store for playstation and I’m sure there are more surprises. It’s an exciting year for the industry with these new consoles are coming out. I never thought that there will be a console launch in the middle of a pandemic. I never thought my first hands on would be in my own place, with the controller for PS5 but I'll take it. And they quickly took it away so I don't have it anymore. And that's a wrap for me.
The video interview
If you want to solely discuss the Dualsense hand-ons please visit the other thread here: Dualsense Thread
At your leisure read up the dirty homemade transcription of the interview (don't ask
). The bold parts are the topics that I find of interest to this discussion. I want to know if you agree or disagree with the promise of Playstation as laid out by Eric Lempel, or broadly speaking; do you believe in generations as they've come before? The alternative of course is Microsoft's strategy for this upcoming generation. That is to blur the lines of generations with cross-generational support as laid out by Phil Spencer and Team Xbox. In case you don't know already, or need a refresh here is Team Xbox official stance: Xbox Wire, Future of Gaming and Phil here: Recent WaPo InterviewTranscript:
Geoff:
Well I had a lot of fun playing with the Dualsense controller and Astro's Playroom and I wanted to get a little bit more of information. So joining me now is the worldwide head of marketing for PS Eric Lempel… Eric..
Skipping to the Juicy part:
Eric Lempel:
It’s true. As we’ve said many times, with PS5 it’s a brand new generation and we believe in generations. So we want to evolve every part of the experience and the controller is really the most intimate part of the experience. It’s the extension of the player.
So you know we thought a lot about this. One of the things we could have done is iterate on the Dualshock. We’ve done that for many years. You know the gamers absolutely love the Dualshock. They tell us it’s the best controller we’ve ever made. But we thought, no, lets go a step further. Lets see how a new generation makes press a whole new feeling. And that is how the Dualsense came about. So early on the plan was to evolve the experience. And you know there are many parts to that experience. But this is a really unique part that truly takes a step forward in gaming.
Geoff:
You’ve mentioned you believe in generations. I guess it’s a bit of a controversial opinion to some people about this idea that generations sort of break with the past. And I wanted you to maybe talk a bit about that because it does seem like this is a cardinal sort of virtue of the Playstation promise. That there is this sort of break with the past with a new generation; with a new console game optimized for that system versus kind of working across, you know, multiple devices and multiple generations. Can you maybe give us a little bit more perspective on the controller being a part of that view which is obviously counter to what we see in Xbox (saying something different around that)? Why is that so important to Playstation as a principle of this architecture for the PS5?
Eric Lempel:
Well specifically for us, a big pillar of our company is innovation. It’s a pillar of Sony Corporation. It’s also a pillar of the Playstation company. We’re always trying to push the boundaries. You know we push the boundaries of play. That’s what we say internally, wanting to excite gamers, wanting to deliver new experiences. So as we go into a new piece of hardware it really has to check a box on a lot of different areas to fulfill those promises. And we've talked to a lot of developers about this. We’ve gone out there and talked to people about what they want in a next-generation console. To do that you really gotta deliver a lot. And I think what’s really unique about the Dualsense is that it plays into another one of your senses. We’re covering a lot of the senses with PS5. First and foremost I think gaming fidelity, the first sense is seeing, it's the visuals, it’s the graphics. Naturally with every generation the graphics improve and with the PS5 we’re taking a step forward there. Then there is Sound. And we’re introducing a new form of 3D-Audio, which will be really powerful no matter what you’re playing or how you’re playing. And then the next piece is touch.
And you know touch has been around for a while and we’ve had force feedback. We’ve had different types of force feedback, the rumble in the dualshock but this takes that to a whole new level. Similar to leaps in gaming graphics from previous generations. This brings it to a whole new place. It’s haptic feedback, it’s the adaptive dynamic triggers. It’s something no one’s ever experienced before. And it brings you closer to the game.
You know the biggest joy for us is putting it in the hands of developers because developers want to push the technology as far as it can go. They do this to tell stories and really bring the gamer into their worlds. We believe all of these things combined as well as all the other great PS5 features we’ve spoke about really lead to a next generation experience. And in many cases we can’t take everybody with us from previous consoles into that experience. You need new hardware, you need new devices to experience what these developers want you to experience.
Geoff:
And so I imagine, you know, PS4 will still have games coming out for it. It’s not like the pipeline stops there. But there is a new set of experiences that will be exclusive to PS5 right?
Eric Lempel:
Exactly, PS4 is a big part of everything we do and it will continue to be part of everything we do. There is a lot more to come on Playstion 4. I think most recently we’re seeing some of the greatest titles this generation. They have released in recent weeks. And it will continue. There is a lot to come for people in PS4. There is a ton of life in that product.
Geoff:
When I was playing Astro's Playroom one of the things that my mind started racing with was thinking how this is going to apply to a game like Ratchet. You know a similar gameplay style, but with the audio, the speaker in the Dualsense, and the haptics and the adaptive triggers. One feature we haven’t talked much about is the SSD, and that sort of input/output on the device and how that’s going to allow a lot of interesting things. When I saw the event in June; that Ratchet trailer just blew me away. Like jumping between those worlds so quickly. Could you maybe talk a bit about like that feature? Which I really didn’t you know; I don’t think Astro's Playroom is a game that really needs the SSD to function the way it’s. Can you talk a little bit about the SSD and how that’s gonna impact the experience?
Eric Lempel:
Sure, sure
. And this ties back nicely to your question about generations because when you look at a game like Ratchet and we’ve talked about a lot of different features today. But as you’ve mentioned, we haven’t mentioned the SSD. That is another thing that will make the whole gaming experience different. It will make it better but it also allows the developer do new things. It isn’t just about faster loading times. You take a great developer like Insomniac and they found a way to say “Ok look, here is a game that can only be made on PS5, on this generation, using this technology”. A lot of what you saw on the show; jumping through those different worlds, instantly, just can’t be done in most cases. It needs new hardware, it needs new power. So that is something we’re looking forward to. All of these things come together. You combine that with 3D audio, with the controller, Raytracing. These are great experiences. And these developers know how to harness every piece of those features to really bring you a unique experience. And that really speaks to what next-gen is for us.Geoff:
So in that Ratchet game like, couldn’t be done on PS4? I guess if you did you would have to fundamentally change the architecture and gameplay of it?
Eric Lempel:
You would have to change it. You would have to change the way the game works. It’s just, it would be a different experience. According to everything that Insomniac has told us this hardware allows them to deliver on this vision. They could NOT make otherwise. If they did it would be different. You would be playing a different type of game and the experience would be different.
Geoff:
I have to say, after playing with the controller, dualsense, the experience, I guess I’ve a sense of where you’re taking things moving forward. And lets talk a bit about that. You guys had the big event. So many great titles. Gamers are very excited about PS5. There were rumours this week that pre-orders were happening and twitter lit up. I don’t know where these rumours start but I have to ask you. Are you about to press a button for pre-orders? When can we get expect to get our PS5?
Eric Lempel:
No, definitely not now. We don’t know what happened there . We had nothing to do with it. I got a message from someone saying “people are lining up at stores” and we had no idea why. So I think it’s safe to say to your viewers that we’ll let you know when pre-orders will happen. It’s not gonna happen with a minute’s notice. We’re going to at some point let you know when you can pre-order a PS5. So please don’t feel like you have to go run out and line up anywhere until you receive official notice in how all of that works. Don't know what happened, or who did it (we do). It wasn’t us. (busted "insider")
Geoff:
But look I mean as a marketer you must love to see so much anticipation for your product?
Eric Lempel:
No look, we absolutely love all the playstation fans and we’re thrilled that they’re excited about this product. And again with the PS5 we’re trying to bring them experiences they didn’t think were possible. And you know you’re experiencing some of that. I’m glad you had the experience that you did because that’s what we’re hoping to get out of this. You know unfortunately given the situation in the world we would of loved to be out there having gamers start to touch the product. We would of done that in normal years. We can’t do that now. It’s really hard. I know there are a lot of people watching this and they’re gonna really wonder like, what are they talking about?
Geoff:
They’re gonna be angry at me. Saying why why…
Eric Lempel:
Why did Jeff get to do it? I think it’s really hard to describe. You’ve heard us talk about it but now you’ve gone through the experience and you can see it. It’s different.
Geoff:
One thing I wanted to ask you about. We’ve known each other a long time and I’m excited that you’re in this worldwide role for Playstation, to kind of unify the messaging around the world. There is a new tag line around Playstation that showed up in the event in June. I think it was the first time that people have seen it. Can you maybe talk us about this new tag-line that’s global for Playstation.
Eric Lempel:
Certainly, and thanks for noticing that. That was actually the last bit of the show, the last thing we showed. This new line which is “Play has no Limits”. As you’ve said we’ve known each other a long time and you’ve known how the Playstation organization is structured. And in the past we were really separate groups around the world that all worked together and laddered up to a parent company. In recent years we started to globalize and we’ve seen great benefits from that in many parts of the organization. So another part of this was the marketing piece. And really if you look at great brands around the world they all feel similar, or at least to a great degree similar. A part of that is the global brand line and these lines, if they’re good, they stand the test of time and they stick with the brand for a long time. This was a hard job for the team. We went back and we looked at this and we thought what type of line will really satisfy the world and at the same time live up to our ambition as a company, as a brand. That was “Play has no Limits”. That is what we believe. And there is many different ways to interpret it. I’ll leave it to the viewers to interpret it the way they like.
For us it’s about speaking to innovation, and speaking about new experiences you can have with Playstation that you never expected. Really it’s how we push ourselves. We don’t constraint ourselves. We want to push the limits of gaming all the time. Right up to the end of everything we do, we’re constantly pushing to deliver something new, something best in class.
I’m excited about this. I would say Jeff, "you’ve been around the industry for a long time". I would challenge you to name all the Playstation tag-lines this past generation around the world. You couldn’t because there were a ton of them.
Geoff:
I was gonna say I know “Greatness Awaits” but beyond that… it’s like…
Eric Lempel:
There were a lot of them. That’s why we really wanted to get this together. And of course the line will be localized.
Geoff:
Was “4 the Players” something in the UK maybe?
Eric Lempel:
Yes exactly, it was the line that was used across most parts of Europe, but there were a lot of them. So we looked at this and we said lets get one line that solidifies the brand. Also the look and feel of the brand is changing slightly and you saw some of that in the event a few weeks ago and that will also be global. So it will be a strong global ________ . (if you understood what word came out of his mouth here, please leave a reply and help me expand my English vocab lmao).
Geoff:
Again there is a lot of love for Playstation, and what you guys have teased us with for PS5. It has been an interesting rollout where you never know what’s going to pop out on twitter. The box art itself trending? Who knows what’s next? I can’t let you go without asking. Everyone online wants to know if we’re gonna get other colors of controllers or consoles? I imagine for launch it’s very hard just to get one out but…… Is that on the roadmap?
Eric Lempel:
We’ll talk about it as some point. As you’ve mentioned it’s a hard enough job to get the unit that we’ve showed out but we’ll talk about it at some time. (Looks like we're not getting that black baby at launch).
Geoff:
Well we know there will be two of them come out. A digital one as well coming out. We’re excited to see what’s in store for playstation and I’m sure there are more surprises. It’s an exciting year for the industry with these new consoles are coming out. I never thought that there will be a console launch in the middle of a pandemic. I never thought my first hands on would be in my own place, with the controller for PS5 but I'll take it. And they quickly took it away so I don't have it anymore. And that's a wrap for me.
The video interview
Last edited:
