PlayStation 5's first beta firmware update rolling out (Full changelog in OP)

MaKTaiL

Member
How is the HDMi speed. Still capped? No HDR 4:4:4? : (
If you are talking about HDR 4:4:4 at 4K then you need a TV with HDMI 2.1. Otherwise your TV will only do it at 1080p. And honestly there is barely any difference between 4:4:2 and RGB. Stop whining.
 

Whitecrow

Gold Member
If you are talking about HDR 4:4:4 at 4K then you need a TV with HDMI 2.1. Otherwise your TV will only do it at 1080p. And honestly there is barely any difference between 4:4:2 and RGB. Stop whining.
Chill out dude.
I notice the difference in chroma subsampling and that's why I would like to have it with HDR too.
I have an LG C9 so I'm ready for it.
 

Venuspower

Member
How is the HDMi speed. Still capped? No HDR 4:4:4? : (

It is not capped. 32 Gbps is just the maximum the PS5 can handle due to the DP => HDMI converter chip the PS5 is using (DisplayPort 1.4 is limited to 32 Gbps).

However, because you are talking about HDR@444:
32 Gbps is enough for 4K@60@HDR@444.
Only when 120 Hz is used you will be limited to 422. But there are only a handfull of games that support 120 Hz output. So it
is not that big of a deal unless you are playing these games :D

Even DSC (which Sony has to add in the future in order to support 8K displays) won't help you because your C9 does not support DSC.
 
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kyliethicc

Member
Oh that’s good, where did I get the 7 from?

Yeah what RoadHazard RoadHazard said - it was this slide and us all guessing.

Thankfully it seems like 5.5 - 6 GB/s is gonna be enough.

 
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Whitecrow

Gold Member
It is not capped. 32 Gbps is just the maximum the PS5 can handle due to the DP => HDMI converter chip the PS5 is using (DisplayPort 1.4 is limited to 32 Gbps).

However, because you are talking about HDR@444:
32 Gbps is enough for 4K@60@HDR@444.
Only when 120 Hz is used you will be limited to 422. But there are only a handfull of games that support 120 Hz output. So it
is not that big of a deal unless you are playing these games :D

Even DSC (which Sony has to add in the future in order to support 8K displays) won't help you because your C9 does not support DSC.
Well that's big news for me. Thanks a lot for the clarification : 3
 

Venuspower

Member

Yep. Sony went with a really strange implementation with that coverter chip.
They actually did the same with the PS4. Here is a specsheet of the chip they used in the PS4 (MN86472A),
which is a DP 1.1a => HDMI 1.4b converter:

PS4 PRO is using an updated version of the chip that has support for HDMI 2.0b (MN864729).
For PS5 chip I have not seen a spec sheet. But PS5 is using a chip from Panasonic Nuvoton that is called "MN864739" which again is a newer version of the chip the PS4 PRO is using. Unless it is magically a DP 2.0 => HDMI 2.1 converter it is pretty safe to assume that this little chip is a DP 1.4 => HDMI 2.1 converter. This also explains why the PS5 is limited to 32 Gbps and not to 40 Gbps or 48 Gbps.
 
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martino

Member
I'm in !
edit : wrong alert it's ps4 v9.0 and i don't own a ps4 anymore....i have a code (eu) for that if anyone want it.
 
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Mr Moose

Member
Yep. Sony went with a really strange implementation with that coverter chip.
They actually did the same with the PS4. Here is a specsheet of the chip they used in the PS4 (MN86472A),
which is a DP 1.1a => HDMI 1.4b converter:

PS4 PRO is using an updated version of the chip that has support for HDMI 2.0b (MN864729).
For PS5 chip I have not seen a spec sheet. But PS5 is using a chip from Panasonic Nuvoton that is called "MN864739" which again is a newer version of the chip the PS4 PRO is using. Unless it is magically a DP 2.0 => HDMI 2.1 converter it is pretty safe to assume that this little chip is a DP 1.4 => HDMI 2.1 converter. This also explains why the PS5 is capped at 32 Gbps and not on 40 Gbps or 48 Gbps.
Then why isn't "VRR" (FreeSync) supported already? DisplayPort has had that stuff for years hasn't it?
 

Venuspower

Member
Then why isn't "VRR" (FreeSync) supported already? DisplayPort has had that stuff for years hasn't it?

Because for some reason Sony has decided not to enable these features yet.
Nobody actually knows. Rumors are going around this might have something to do with
their TV division. As you may know, Sony hasn't even delivered HDMI VRR with their TVs yet, even though they promised.

Also do not expect FreeSync support on PS5. Sony only mentioned VRR speficied by HDMI 2.1. Which of course is based on AMDs FreeSync via HDMI implementation. But the EDID is different. Traditionally Sony is a really conservative company when it comes to PC features. And FreeSync is a PC feature. So they might skip FreeSync and focus on HDMI VRR.

The whole thing regarding the Panasonic converter chip might also explain why Sony has never talked about stuff like ALLM. Displayport simply does not support ALLM unless they find another way to implement it.
 
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Darklor01

Might need to stop sniffing glue
well it seems like i didn't get in the beta... :(
Did any of us get in the beta? I know I didn't, and like I said yesterday, I never get invites or promotions for anything even though I have everything in place for them.
 

Whitecrow

Gold Member
Yep. Sony went with a really strange implementation with that coverter chip.
They actually did the same with the PS4. Here is a specsheet of the chip they used in the PS4 (MN86472A),
which is a DP 1.1a => HDMI 1.4b converter:

PS4 PRO is using an updated version of the chip that has support for HDMI 2.0b (MN864729).
For PS5 I have not seen a spec sheet. But PS5 is using a chip from Panasonic Nuvoton that is called "MN864739" which again is a newer version of the chip the PS4 PRO is using. Unless it is magically a DP 2.0 => HDMI 2.1 converter it is pretty safe to assume that this little chip is a DP 1.4 => HDMI 2.1. This also explains why the PS5 is capped at 32 Gbps and not on 40 Gbps or 48 Gbps.
Why in the hell would Sony do that???
Because for some reason Sony has decided not to enable these features yet.
Nobody actually knows. Rumors are going around this might have something to do with
their TV division. As you may know, Sony hasn't even delivered HDMI VRR with their TVs yet, even though they promised.

Also do not expect FreeSync support on PS5. Sony only mentioned VRR speficied by HDMI 2.1. Which of course is based on AMDs FreeSync via HDMI implementation. But the EDID is different. Traditionally Sony is a really conservative company when it comes to PC features. And FreeSync is a PC feature. So they might skip FreeSync and focus on HDMI VRR.

The whole thing regarding the Panasonic converter chip might also explain why Sony has never talked about stuff like ALLM. Displayport simply does not support ALLM unless they find another way to implement it.
How do you know so much about this? I'm really curious : D
 

Venuspower

Member
Why in the hell would Sony do that???

Who knows. Maybe it is cheaper for them.


How do you know so much about this? I'm really curious : D

A mix of different things I guess. First time I heard about the weird HDMI implementation on PS4 was years ago in a Digital Foundry video or so. Back when PS5 launched I did some more digging because I was curious about the 32 Gbps limit. Thanks to the disassembly video of TronixFix I noticed a similar Panasonic chip on the PS5. Some other people over at AVSForum also noticed the same thing.That probably sums it up pretty well.
 
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Darklor01

Might need to stop sniffing glue
They should invite everyone to the beta so we can use the storage slot if we want. This way, if something goes wrong, they can say .. hey.. beta! Y'know?!?! .. /s
 

Bojanglez

The Amiga Brotherhood
I'm in !
edit : wrong alert it's ps4 v9.0 and i don't own a ps4 anymore....i have a code (eu) for that if anyone want it.
I just got a PS4 v9.0 email too. I was hoping this would give access to the PS5 beta too, but I guess not.
 

martino

Member
I just got a PS4 v9.0 email too. I was hoping this would give access to the PS5 beta too, but I guess not.
The strange thing is my profile is up to date.
I removed my ps4 from it (before selling it) and only have a ps5 and a ps3 added there.
 
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Bojanglez

The Amiga Brotherhood
The strange thing is my profile is up to date.
I removed my ps4 from it (before selling it) and only have a ps5 and a ps3 added there.
Yeah maybe they are not that sophisticated. I still have a couple of PS4s that are used occasionally, but I just really really want to view my trophies properly on my PS5 and drop £400 on a 2TB NVMe drive :messenger_grinning_smiling:
 
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NickFire

Member
No beta for me and I've done almost all of them on PS4.

For some reason though, I'm still browsing the SSD's and wishing the Firecuda one was available. But I'm doubting they have any significant price drops or sales once every PS5 can be upgraded, so it would be ok to buy it early.
 

Nitty_Grimes

Made a crappy phPBB forum once ... once.
Still have £400 sitting in my Amazon account for the right drive. Probs gonna be 2tb 980. Do I buy it now or will all the scalpers hoover them up imminently I wonder.
 

Kuranghi

Gold Member
Anyone know how this "3D audio through TV speakers" works?

I'm assuming something like or an evolution of the "Vertical Surround Engine" they have in their soundbars, but they are doing the processing in the PS5 instead of in the soundbar:


I have it on my ZF9 soundbar from 2018 and for my Sony job I personally did a lot of testing of it on many different sources on different sound bar models, bottomline was the more information to work with the better it is so 2.1 boosted to "virtural 7.1.2" is probably going be as good as current 3D sound on mobile phones equipped with stereo speakers*, which is to say, its alright, but you don't get any height effects and rear effects are limited to it feeling like the sound is pasing by your ears rather than actually being behind you, like when a fly buzzes past your ears from front to back.

If you have an actual surround sound source (5.1/7.1) then the rear effect is much better but still not really as good as physical speakers, and sometimes you hear what you think is a height effect. So since almost all PS5 games will have 7.1 output before the 3D sound is applied it should be like that I'd imagine.

The time when it felt actually quite good was when I tried it with an actual Atmos or DTS:X source which has height channels and is "object based" rather than whatever the old method was called - which I understood to mean sounds sound more like they are inbetween the physical channels and can sound closer or further more realistically. Unfortunately no PS5 games will have that data afaik.

The caveat to all this is that the seating position is really important, you really need to be head onto the soundbar/speakers for it to really work properly. You can get an idea of how it "breaks" by doing trying with a mobile phone like I wrote below.

*I know its on the Samsung S20 at least, so if you have something similar try playing a video in landscape mode and tilt the screen away from you and you can hear the effect breaking, when its working you feel like some of the sound is right at your ears rather than coming from the speakers.

TL;DR - VSE is alright with a stereo source, its good with a 7.1 source and it can be great with an Atmos/DTS:X source and a perfect seating position. Its a way of experiencing something akin to rear and height channels without having to put speakers around your room or mount speakers in the ceiling, which have a really low WAF. Its probably shite with most modern TV speakers because they fire downwards and generally sound like shit anyway (comparitively), so even with a good source it might not work well (certainly won't work well if the TV is wall-mounted with nothing below it), a bit better with a 2.1/3.1 soundbar and good with a proper 5.1/7.1 speaker setup.
 
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