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PlayStation 5's first beta firmware update rolling out (Full changelog in OP)

Kuranghi

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Unless I'm misunderstanding you, you can choose a channel output from the settings.
Be it 2.0/5.1/7.1 and so forth.
those settings appear when connected to a AV Receiver

No not at all, I get that. I'm just wondering whether it sends out height data or if the height effect is just recreated by modifying the existing 2.1-7.1 channels. The other replies here saying that DTS:X/Atmos isn't implmented/relevant in games seems to indicate you won't get any real height data though.

So for instance, disregarding the 3D audio, if you have a 7.1.2 receiver with real in-ceiling speakers connected to a PS5 I think it just has to use its own in-receiver processing (DTS Neural:X or the confusingly named "Dolby Surround" upmixing solutions) to get audio into the real ceiling speakers.

So I'm wondering if when you use, for example, a 5.1 soundbar (3.1 bar with two rear speakers) but with the new 3D audio turned on, will the audio signal sent out contain extra height channel information generated by the Tempest audio system from the original audio output from the game that the soundbar can use to aid its own internal 3D audio processing or will it just send out a 5.1 signal with frequency modifications.

I'm thinking the latter now I've heard from others. Its probably just not how game audio output works, as kyliethicc kyliethicc says below, ie never contains height data. I'm just wondering if it does because I did tests with Sonys Vertical Surrouns 3D spatial audio system on its soundbars and the only content that actually sounded like it had height channels was the audio sources which already had height channels, even if I didnt have the physical speakers to output it.

Hope that all makes sense.

Yeah its all just pointless DTS/Dolby encoding by the console on a system level. Has nothing to do with the game.

My understanding of it this:

Console can send the game audio out as PCM or as DTS / Dolby.
PCM means no work for TV/AVR... Done, simple.
Using DTS/Dolby means the TV/AVR has to decode that signal... Why bother?

Kinda a waste of time given the source content wasn't mastered in either one. We'd basically just be asking the console to say, encode a DTS signal for the receiver to then decode again. Kinda pointless double work for no real gain. I just use PCM for games on my PS4. Sounds great. Only downside is my AVR's little blue light doesn't light up (since its not decoding.) Oh well lol.

Sounds good.

Its a constant source of pointless pain that I can't get the decoding logos when using PCM/LPCM lol, as you say its just pointless decoding though. I hear no difference in mix/quality/whatever between LPCM output and DTS-HD from VLC (Which is easier to test than comparing on PS5).

Off Topic: This came up while I was searching just now and I forgot about it. I think its why my 1080p blurays have been looking like toasted shit compared to VLC/mpv on the PC (I swapped back and forth on the same frame of the disc in the PS5 and an ISO of it on PC and it was night and day different in terms of image quality, which baffled me), so just a headsup for others to turn this awful crap off when watching good quality content:

 

Shmunter

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Yeah I get that the compression wouldn't matter and I've always not really understood DTS/Dolby output (whether its compressed, uncompressed or the newer object-based codecs) in games anyway, it doesn't seem to make any sense to me since you aren't listening to a fixed soundtrack but rather something thats different depending on where you are/face in a game.
For games it acts as nothing more than a container format. It’s relevance is non existent.

Edit kyliethicc kyliethicc beat me to it
 
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kyliethicc

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sucks man I've got a pretty good 1440/120fps monitor but the PS5 won't just allow me to use it that resolution because it doesn't support the 1440p resolution and thus stuck with 1080p/120fps output
Big Jimbo Sony don't give a fuck lol. They'd recommend you buy one of their new Sony TVs. (Preferably the one with the highest price.)

The reality is Sony's own TVs don't support 1440p. That's why they don't care and why PS4/5 don't support 1440p output res. Sony only focus on 720p, 1080p, and 2160p since those are what like 95% of their users use (on TVs).
 
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Kuranghi

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So wait, just to sum up, no game has ever output any actual real height channel data then? Regardless of whether its Dolby, DTS or LPCM.

Whats Atmos support in RE2/3R doing? Is that just a software solution for headphones?

edit - I found this where they say that it does produce proper height channels on an X.X.2 system but its very sparingly used, they also mentioned Shadow of the Tomb Raider has much better Atmos support, I'd like to see what that sounds like on my PC as I'm guessing the PS5 version doesn't support it:


Maybe Xbox Series supports it in SotTR?
 
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kyliethicc

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Give me Folders

We have bigger issues ahead of us than fucking folders.


 

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
Jun 1, 2013
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isnt 5500mb slower than internal?
wouldnt that mean ratchet stutter?

btw - the 3d audio sounds fantastic on pulse 3d. Better than it did to dualsense connected headphones but that's probably because of headphones quality.
I am skeptical how it will work on speakers
The physical drive in the PS5 is exactly 5.5GB/s. Its the I/O tech and whatnot that boosts it past that number.

 
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Kuranghi

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Big Jimbo Sony don't give a fuck lol. They'd recommend you buy one of their new Sony TVs. (Preferably the one with the highest price.)

The reality is Sony's own TVs don't support 1440p. That's why they don't care and why PS4/5 don't support 1440p output res. Sony only focus on 720p, 1080p, and 2160p since those are what like 95% of their users use (on TVs).

A lot of them do actually support 1080p & 1440p 120hz output but it always has to be forced via custom resolutions or EDID editing, but you'd think they could make their own machine do forced resolutions with their own TVs but hey-ho:



edit - The models that supports it are from 2016-2019, they made the 1080p@120hz support native from the X900H onwards (S0 the X90J does it natively) but they removed ANY 1440p 120hz support from those models, even forced. So I presume they want to pretend it doesn't exist, pile o shite for non 2.1 users since I'm not interested in going back to 1080p just to get 120hz, I can still do that in almost every game I play on PC but I choose not to for IQ reasons.
 
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Inviusx

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Is the Sony 3D Audio option a new format in addition to PCM/Dolby/DTS or is it just a separate on/off function?
 

TrebleShot

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I wouldn't get too excited on the 3D audio front, most likely and the way this is worded I think the support is for TV stereo speakers only, I don't think this is the 5.1/7.1 update many of us have been waiting for.

I believe the roadmap was like this:

Headphones
TV
Soundbars
5.1/7.1

Still a ways to go, and I am unconvinced the psychoacoustics of the Tempest engine will have much effect. This will sound similar to the "Surround Mode" on most smart TV sound settings.
 

CyberChulo

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I had to plug mine straight into the Dualsense so maybe thats why it was so disappointing, now you've made me think it might have activated that horrible "headset mode" you get on PC if you don't use the right source in the audio settings by doing this.

Can I ask how was the experience wired into the controller for you? If you could test it and compare to the USB dongle I'd be really grateful. Oh and which dongle did you buy?
Amazon.com: Creative BT-W3 Bluetooth 5.0 USB-C Audio Transmitter, aptX LL and aptX HD, 3.5 mm Analog Mic for Voice Chat Support, Codec Indicator and Selection, Plug-and-Play for PS4, Nintendo Switch, PC, and Mac: Computers & Accessories

WF-1000xm3's are only wireless so I wouldn't be able to test them connected to the dual sense.
 

kyliethicc

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I wouldn't get too excited on the 3D audio front, most likely and the way this is worded I think the support is for TV stereo speakers only, I don't think this is the 5.1/7.1 update many of us have been waiting for.

I believe the roadmap was like this:

Headphones
TV
Soundbars
5.1/7.1

Still a ways to go, and I am unconvinced the psychoacoustics of the Tempest engine will have much effect. This will sound similar to the "Surround Mode" on most smart TV sound settings.
The roadmap was actually:

1. Headphones at launch (2.0 channel)
2. Stereo speakers (2.0 channel) like TVs / most soundbars
3. Multi-channel speakers (3.1, 5.1, 7.1) like surround setups (and some soundbars)

They're past step 1 and now adding step 2. Which are far more important. Sony's goal is clearly to add spatial sound to 2.0 setups because most gamers use headphones, stereo TV speakers, or stereo soundbars. Multi-channel surround setups are already in the best position for a good 7.1 PCM mix that PS4 and PS5 already support, so of course they'll get the least priority. And I imagine adding 3D audio to a 7.1 setup is far more complex than adding it to a pair of headphones. It'll take time.
 
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Jul 15, 2020
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Fuck, finally 3d audio out through HDMI, and you use the Dualsense mic to measure your soundstage for accurate reproduction! Expected as such. Great news, now I wish I signed up for the beta.
Do I need to enable 3D audio when hooked up to a 5.1 system? Or is it just for headphones and TV speakers?
 

CyberChulo

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Exactly what I am doing. Nice to have the option to use whatever headphones I want rather than being forced to buy officially licensed stuff that is, frankly, subpar.
You know it! I'm just happy that I can equalize the headsets on my phone and they get carried over to the PS5. Deep base and wide sound stage which makes the 3D audio amazing!
 
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Kuranghi

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Thanks for the link mate, will have to order one of those soon.

Its weird, I had a gut feeling you would say that you believe its only wireless, because they don't really talk about in the description or on the box that it can be wired in.

Did you never wonder what the headphone port labelled "input" is on the bottom of the left ear cup? Or what the 3.5mm cable thats in the headphone case is for? I mostly use it for old portable audio players and when I connect them to a DAC/Headphone amp.


Sorry for the brain failure mate, just saw you wrote WF-1000XM3 and not WH-1000XM3 like I have, apologies.

How do you personally find the BT connection? Very stable? I had WF-1000X but they constantly disconnected, as did my main squeeze's pair. I heard the XM3 is much better but still not perfect and I saw the XM4 spec page is touting "L/R Simultaneous BT Transmission" so maybe thats their attempt to fully fix it if it still exists in the XM3 model.
 
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Kuranghi

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Apr 17, 2015
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I wouldn't get too excited on the 3D audio front, most likely and the way this is worded I think the support is for TV stereo speakers only, I don't think this is the 5.1/7.1 update many of us have been waiting for.

I believe the roadmap was like this:

Headphones
TV
Soundbars
5.1/7.1

Still a ways to go, and I am unconvinced the psychoacoustics of the Tempest engine will have much effect. This will sound similar to the "Surround Mode" on most smart TV sound settings.

Indeed, will be nice to see when its out of beta.

I don't really know how they will make it work well for TV speakers tbh, because the dualsense microphone acoustic setup is great for recognising the room space but TV speakers could be anywhere from 20cm to 2m apart depending on screen size and model and I think knowing the rough distance is important for forming the 3D effect, maybe it just means the closer the speakers are to each other the smaller the "sweet spot", ie where the effect actually works will be.

Similar issue with soundbars but they could at least have a list of the more popular models with information on speakers setup/distance, and with a proper speaker + receiver setup they could just assume the front channels are in the absolute corners of the room, using the information from the the DS microphone.
 

skit_data

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The audio stuff is the biggest thing for me personally, together with the better trophy list and trophy tracking in control center.
 

wvnative

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Feb 10, 2016
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Damn. My two most requested features aren't here, unless they are but not in the patch notes.

1. Need the option that's on PS4 to disable notifications for "Gameplay recording blocked for this scene", you can disable every other notification why is this missing?

2. Accessibility sub-menu in the control center needs a quick toggle for custom button mapping, just like PS4's quick menu
 
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CyberChulo

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Thanks for the link mate, will have to order one of those soon.

Its weird, I had a gut feeling you would say that you believe its only wireless, because they don't really talk about in the description or on the box that it can be wired in.

Did you never wonder what the headphone port labelled "input" is on the bottom of the left ear cup? Or what the 3.5mm cable thats in the headphone case is for? I mostly use it for old portable audio players and when I connect them to a DAC/Headphone amp.


Sorry for the brain failure mate, just saw you wrote WF-1000XM3 and not WH-1000XM3 like I have, apologies.

How do you personally find the BT connection? Very stable? I had WF-1000X but they constantly disconnected, as did my main squeeze's pair. I heard the XM3 is much better but still not perfect and I saw the XM4 spec page is touting "L/R Simultaneous BT Transmission" so maybe thats their attempt to fully fix it if it still exists in the XM3 model.
It can drop from time to time from my Galaxy note 10 phone but not very often. Sometimes the left ear bud would lose connection for a couple of seconds and then come back on is what I noticed.
I have tried a cheaper pair of sony wired earbuds with the dual sense and the 3d audio is still great. Just doesn't sound anywhere near the quality of the xm3's.
 
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omegasc

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no mention of VRR is a bummer for those that, like me, have a TV with it, but a great update nonetheless! I guess SSD expansion is indeed higher priority and is the better choice for way more users.
 
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Golgo 13

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From past experiences, does anyone know when this will launch worldwide to the general public? A month, two months, etc?
 

Reallink

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No not at all, I get that. I'm just wondering whether it sends out height data or if the height effect is just recreated by modifying the existing 2.1-7.1 channels. The other replies here saying that DTS:X/Atmos isn't implmented/relevant in games seems to indicate you won't get any real height data though.

So for instance, disregarding the 3D audio, if you have a 7.1.2 receiver with real in-ceiling speakers connected to a PS5 I think it just has to use its own in-receiver processing (DTS Neural:X or the confusingly named "Dolby Surround" upmixing solutions) to get audio into the real ceiling speakers.

So I'm wondering if when you use, for example, a 5.1 soundbar (3.1 bar with two rear speakers) but with the new 3D audio turned on, will the audio signal sent out contain extra height channel information generated by the Tempest audio system from the original audio output from the game that the soundbar can use to aid its own internal 3D audio processing or will it just send out a 5.1 signal with frequency modifications.

I'm thinking the latter now I've heard from others. Its probably just not how game audio output works, as kyliethicc kyliethicc says below, ie never contains height data. I'm just wondering if it does because I did tests with Sonys Vertical Surrouns 3D spatial audio system on its soundbars and the only content that actually sounded like it had height channels was the audio sources which already had height channels, even if I didnt have the physical speakers to output it.

Hope that all makes sense.



Sounds good.

Its a constant source of pointless pain that I can't get the decoding logos when using PCM/LPCM lol, as you say its just pointless decoding though. I hear no difference in mix/quality/whatever between LPCM output and DTS-HD from VLC (Which is easier to test than comparing on PS5).

Off Topic: This came up while I was searching just now and I forgot about it. I think its why my 1080p blurays have been looking like toasted shit compared to VLC/mpv on the PC (I swapped back and forth on the same frame of the disc in the PS5 and an ISO of it on PC and it was night and day different in terms of image quality, which baffled me), so just a headsup for others to turn this awful crap off when watching good quality content:


It almost definitely will NOT send height data to discrete ceiling/upfiring speakers, it'll be a virtualized/processed simulation using the basic ground plane 5 or 7 channels. You will also probably want to turn off the upmixing in your AVR/soundbars settings, as upmixing that places discrete sounds in height channel will conflict with the PS5s processing thats trying to simulate a similar effect. You will want your height speakers to be completely dead/silent when using PS5 games.
 
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Kuranghi

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It almost definitely will NOT send height data to discrete ceiling/upfiring speakers, it'll be a virtualized/processed simulation using the basic ground plane 5 or 7 channels. You will also probably want to turn off the upmixing in your AVR/soundbars settings, as upmixing that places discrete sounds in height channel will conflict with the PS5s processing thats trying to simulate a similar effect.

Lovely succint answer, thank you so much. I figured this considering other replies in the thread and what I found on google later in the thread. Cheers again though, makes sense you would disable the upmixing.

What do you think of this thread? They seem to say they got height channels sounds in SotTR and RE2R using the Atmos option, thats on PC ofc, but I'm just wondering how I can get a signal with height channels into my soundbar - which accepts Atmos and DTS:X but only to use the height channel/object data to create virtual channels - rather because I don't have physical height channels:


Of course I've no way of knowing if they are using the upmixing on their receivers or not, but I presume not if they are looking to see if the Atmos is really working. I'd really like to see a list of games that output true height data, but I can't find one anywhere, maybe because list of games that do it is so small.

It's the same concept as using a mic such as this (that comes with AV receivers) for home theatre sound calibration.

Ooft, you don't want to accidently leave that one on the couch and sit on it later, or maybe you do, each to their own!
 
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RCU005

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One thing I really don't like is showing different versions of the same game separately in the library. In the Home Screen is great, but in the library is going to make it a mess with many duplicates. I understand why they are doing it, but it is unnecessary.

I also liked a lot the trophies showing horizontally. People will complain about anything and of course, Sony will comply.

Other than that. It seems like a great update!
 

R6Rider

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Great news about the 3D audio through TV. I can finally use the feature while using my Elgato (requires Digital audio out to headphones).,

Although I'd still prefer an audio multi-output feature like the PS3 had.
 

mckmas8808

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Fuck, finally 3d audio out through HDMI, and you use the Dualsense mic to measure your soundstage for accurate reproduction! Expected as such. Great news, now I wish I signed up for the beta.

Me too. HaHa.
 
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