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PlayStation 5 [OT] Taking Over The World One SSD At A Time

yurinka

Member
I got few questions for PS5:

Backwards Compatibility:
1) Are PS4/PS4Pro games enhanced in any way shape or form without patches? Enhanced includes but not limited to:
1a. Checkboard 4k to True 4k
1b. HDR Implementation
1c. Raytracing Implementation
1d. 30fps to 60fps
1e. Variable Refresh Rate implementation with AMDfreesync (due to HDMI 2.1 out with HDMI 2.1 compatible 4K UHD TV's with AMD Freesync/Variable Refresh Rate)

2) Is PS4 Dualshock controller compatible with PS5?
3) Can you use PS5 Controller Haptic feedback to play PS4/PS4Pro games?
4) Are PS4/PS4Pro games loading times decreased due to PS5 custom SSD drive, and faster 4k ultra-blu ray disk player?


Additional SSD Drive for game data Storage
Is there any PS5 compatible SSD drive which is 2TB+ which is the same or faster speed of its internal SSD drive which
includes:

-I/O Bottle Neck Removal
-Cache Scrubbers and coherency processors, and other customizations similar to the internal SSD Drive


Arigato Gozaimasu
1a. Like in Series X, BC games with dynamic resolutions will see their native resolution increased, up to 4K (I don't think they allow them to go 8K). They didn't announce if they replaced checkerboard with something else to upscale games with less than 4K resolution, so it's likely they'll continue using checkerboard for BC.
1b. Some PS4 Pro games featured HDR. They didn't mention if like Series X they'll add HDR to some games that didn't have it, so it's likely that they won't.
1c. Exactly like in Series X, in PS5 some native games will feature raytracing, their BC games don't. Both PS5 and Series X have some crossgen games which feature raytracing in their next gen version. Most of them are released more or less at launch, some are older like cases as Gears 5 or the Spiderman remaster (none of these cases are BC games, they are native next gen games).
1d. Exactly like in Series X, some current gen games have unlocked framerate, so they will have way higher framerate in the next gen console. Or if they have capped 30 or 60 fps, they will have less and smaller (or no) framedrops. Some crossgen games 30 in previous gen and 60fps (or up to 120fps) in both next gen consoles.
1e. HDMI 2.1 features VRR, so both Series X and PS5 feature have confirmed VRR support.
2) Yes, you'll be able to use DualShock 4 to play PS4 games on PS5, but not to play PS5 games because it doesn't support haptic feedback, adaptative controllers, mic, improved input delay time, extra precision for motion controller or touchpad. All officially supported PS4 specialized controllers (wheels, arcade sticks...) will work with both PS4 and PS5 games.
3) No, because it's a PS5 feature. If you play PS4 games in PS5 with a DS4 will have the same rumble, if you play them using a DualSense it's very likely that it will mimic the traditional rumble using its haptic feedback.
4) Exactly like in Series X, BC games on PS5 will have shorter loading times compared to the PS4 ones. But PS5 loads from its SSD more than twice as fast as Series X so they will load faster than in Series X both from the internal and external SSD bay. And PS5 uses USB 3.2 gen 2 (10Gbps) instead of Series X USB 3.1 gen 1 (5 Gbps) so it will run games from external USB pendrive/HDD/SDD storage faster, too.

We still don't have any official confirmation if they are going to be compatible with PS5, but as I remember someone announced a NVMe PCIe 4.0 SDD that seems will fit in the PS5 bay (this are some of the requirements) and is fast enough (7GB/s raw seed). Cerny said that they should be at least as fast as as the PS5 one (5.5GB/s raw speed), and more if they don't have at least the same amount of priority levels that the PS5 has (6 levels, while all the PC ones have 2) to compensate it. I don't remember the name of that potential candidate to be the first one (try to search it, there was a neogaf thread about it), but before buying it I'd suggest you to wait the compatibility list that Sony announced that they will do listing the supported ones.

Other than that, Cache Scrubbers and coherency processors, and other I/O customizations aren't part of the SSD, but part of the I/O engine of the cansole. Which measn the external SSD would take advantage of them too.
 
Other than that, Cache Scrubbers and coherency processors, and other I/O customizations aren't part of the SSD, but part of the I/O engine of the cansole. Which means the external SSD would take advantage of them too.

I am so glad you cleared that up. I thought third party external SSDs would need the cache scrubbers and coherency processors inside the SSD. I guess the minimum requirement is speed of 5.5 GB/sec, but why does Sony need to certify third party external SSD's? Besides speed, what else needs to be put in place for it to be compatible with PS5?

With Xbox Series X, the external SSD is:

A) Proprietary + Custom
B) Partnered with specific SSD manufacturer: Seagate

Versus Sony........ (!?!)
 

Gediminas

Banned
I am so glad you cleared that up. I thought third party external SSDs would need the cache scrubbers and coherency processors inside the SSD. I guess the minimum requirement is speed of 5.5 GB/sec, but why does Sony need to certify third party external SSD's? Besides speed, what else needs to be put in place for it to be compatible with PS5?

With Xbox Series X, the external SSD is:

A) Proprietary + Custom
B) Partnered with specific SSD manufacturer: Seagate

Versus Sony........ (!?!)
at least 7 GB/sec.
 

Neo Blaster

Member
The industry in general is so secretive with ridiculous rules so it’s not a Sony issue only. If they want “fair access” as you say then it is not fair that some outlets can show the box and others can’t because they didn’t receive it yet going by your logic. Put an NDA over the whole thing until everyone receive theirs and they can show more than the damn box.
Oh, my God, how unfair for some outlets to be able to show a box that everyone have seen before first...

C'mon.
 

Grinchy

Banned
Naughty dog updated the last of us remastered. Loading screens are now much shorter. To first load into the beginning of the game, it used to take 1 minute 30 seconds. After an update, it takes just 13 seconds

I find this so odd. I don't know why they even bothered unless this is going to be to show off like a 1 second load on PS5 or something. Why go back to such an old game and make it load so much faster, and then how did they make it load so much faster? It's all confusing.
 
I find this so odd. I don't know why they even bothered unless this is going to be to show off like a 1 second load on PS5 or something. Why go back to such an old game and make it load so much faster, and then how did they make it load so much faster? It's all confusing.

Engine optimization. Hearing PS5 SDK is an evolution of the PS4 SDK.
 
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edotlee

Member

-CEO Keith Lee (worked on games such as Diablo 2, Resistance: Fall of Man, Ratchet and Clank, MyTown, Duelyst)
-Godfall runs on Unreal Engine 4.
-Counterplay Games largely works remotely.
When people came to visit our office, they said, “You really don’t have a lot of people here. How are you building this game?” But we really didn’t need an office, even back in 2017. If you have a big office and all this fancy glass exterior, that doesn’t mean anything to the end user or the product itself. In a lot of ways, it’s just higher operating expenses. We spent a lot of time thinking about how we could put as much of our resources and time into more cranks on the wheel for design and iteration. It’s allowed us to be more scrappy.
-Bulk of the game was built with 30 people (First 24 months, it was 30 people. Last 12 months, closer to 60)
-Team is now 85 people, and plans to move on to bigger things.
-On how Godfall turned into a PS5 launch game:
When we were working on it last summer, that was when I started to showcase Godfall. I had it on my laptop at GDC last year, and also E3 last summer. That was when we met with Sony. I was able to show Godfall to John Drake, before he left, and a bunch of other folks. It hit a lot of the bullet points, some of the aspects of what they would want for next-gen.
From a timing perspective, we also had the good fortune to meet with Gearbox. Of course, they had tons of experience building out action-RPGs with Borderlands. They also knew the Sony guys. The three of us converged and locked down an agreement where Sony could support us and ensure that we’d be a PS5 launch title. A lot of it was timing, and being able to fill a potential gap that all parties wanted to hit for next-gen.
-Their goal was to combine skill-based combat (Souls games) with gear-driven, stat-driven RPG aspects (Diablo games).
-It seems they will take advantage of the PS5 UI's new Activity system.

He goes into more specifics on how they use the haptics in the new controller, the 3D audio, and how Sony and Gearbox helped them.
 

Lethal01

Member
Atom View provided Epic Games the Nanite tech that transforms how games are made with one single, high polygon assets instead of old school LOD system that it's unnecessary game size with usually lesser quality LOD-0 (highest version).

Do you have any confirmation on this claim, haven't heard anything about any onnovations heavily shared between this and Lumen.
 

Pantz

Member
Really hope to see some reviews or hands on impressions for Godfall, Sackboy, and Destruction AllStars before launch. I just can't figure how these are going to turn out from the previews.
 

-Arcadia-

Banned
I find this so odd. I don't know why they even bothered unless this is going to be to show off like a 1 second load on PS5 or something. Why go back to such an old game and make it load so much faster, and then how did they make it load so much faster? It's all confusing.

The SSD is so fast the benefits apply to PS4 games too. Cerny did it again.
 

bitbydeath

Member
I got few questions for PS5:

Backwards Compatibility:
1) Are PS4/PS4Pro games enhanced in any way shape or form without patches? Enhanced includes but not limited to:
1a. Checkboard 4k to True 4k
1b. HDR Implementation
1c. Raytracing Implementation
1d. 30fps to 60fps
1e. Variable Refresh Rate implementation with AMDfreesync (due to HDMI 2.1 out with HDMI 2.1 compatible 4K UHD TV's with AMD Freesync/Variable Refresh Rate)

2) Is PS4 Dualshock controller compatible with PS5?
3) Can you use PS5 Controller Haptic feedback to play PS4/PS4Pro games?
4) Are PS4/PS4Pro games loading times decreased due to PS5 custom SSD drive, and faster 4k ultra-blu ray disk player?


Additional SSD Drive for game data Storage
Is there any PS5 compatible SSD drive which is 2TB+ which is the same or faster speed of its internal SSD drive which
includes:

-I/O Bottle Neck Removal
-Cache Scrubbers and coherency processors, and other customizations similar to the internal SSD Drive


Arigato Gozaimasu

I’ve added a link in the OP which addresses many of your BC questions.

 

Nitty_Grimes

Made a crappy phPBB forum once ... once.
Naughty dog updated the last of us remastered. Loading screens are now much shorter. To first load into the beginning of the game, it used to take 1 minute 30 seconds. After an update, it takes just 13 seconds


???

I’m not buying a PS5 to install an almost 7 year old game just because it loads in 13 seconds.

Who else is?
 
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Bo_Hazem

Banned
Do you have any confirmation on this claim, haven't heard anything about any onnovations heavily shared between this and Lumen.

Nothing sites it directly, but Sony Atom View (bought by Sony in 2019) came with that in 2017, and it could be used as a plugin in UE4 or Unity, but I believe Sony has stopped that since they bought them and put them under their Sony Innovation Studios and they also work with their Sony Pictures division.

Wanna check it out for yourself? Here:





According to Sweeney, they've been in deep collaboration with Sony since around 2017, and had to rework their UE5 to take full advantage of the PS5. If that tech is patented, then they need to pay Sony to have their own version of it. If not, then it's a ripoff of Atom View innovative solution they have since 2017 (Sony since 2019 the acquisition).

More about it:

Atom View is a revolutionary point-cloud rendering, editing, and coloring software solution for volumetric virtual production. Atom View enables content creators to visualize, edit, color correct and manage volumetric data. Atom View can combine multiple volumetric data sets captured from different angles producing a single output for use in virtual film productions, video games, and interactive experiences with true photoreal cinematic quality. This advanced software engine is giving content creators incredible technology to tell stories in new and amazing ways.


Sony already have their own version in some of their proprietary engines already, and probably some of the games already took advantage of it.
 
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Nitty_Grimes

Made a crappy phPBB forum once ... once.
WTF? Even if it was the case, I don't get the outrage.

There’s no outrage in my post. I’m not installing a 7 year old game to see if it loads in 13 seconds. Where’s the outrage? No swearing, no CAPS I’m not seeing outrage - maybe your interpretation? Do you read a text message in the same way?

Edit: if you are referring to ‘I’m chilled now’ it was a sarcastic response to telling me to relax.
 
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Bo_Hazem

Banned
There’s no outrage in my post. I’m not installing a 7 year old game to see if it loads in 13 seconds. Where’s the outrage? No swearing, no CAPS I’m not seeing outrage - maybe your interpretation? Do you read a text message in the same way?

Edit: if you are referring to ‘I’m chilled now’ it was a sarcastic response to telling me to relax.

It loads in 13sec on PS4's HDD actually, expect 0.8-2sec on PS5
 

Bo_Hazem

Banned
I am so glad you cleared that up. I thought third party external SSDs would need the cache scrubbers and coherency processors inside the SSD. I guess the minimum requirement is speed of 5.5 GB/sec, but why does Sony need to certify third party external SSD's? Besides speed, what else needs to be put in place for it to be compatible with PS5?

With Xbox Series X, the external SSD is:

A) Proprietary + Custom
B) Partnered with specific SSD manufacturer: Seagate

Versus Sony........ (!?!)

Current top-tier NVMe SSD's 7GB/s is still inferior to the internal SSD due to two major issues:

1. 8-channel for 16 modules (1:2 ratio), could lead to data cramping and overheating = throttling vs 12-channel for 12-modules (1:1) on PS5.
2. 2 priority levels (number orders you can make, which could cause pop-ins, lip sync problems, audio effect lag, etc) vs 6 priority levels.

Cerny said that the 7GB/s should use that overhead to compensate for the lack of 4 priority levels via the main I/O, but they need to qualify/benchmark them first.

We should wait for Sony to certify and benchmark those NVMe SSD's. We might see some doing something similar in design to PS5's internal SSD, which still works perfectly on the PC's as well with 825GB.
 
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Bryank75

Banned
Some news, I am under the impression that Quentin Cobb (ND vet) is the studio head or director for the new Uncharted studio at San Diego.

I also have doubts that Kojima is working on a PS exclusive... which (if it is a decision on Sony's part) is a terrible, shortsighted call and will be regretted....just like all the other developers they had in the palm of their hands with incredible potential but never formally made part of PS Studios.
 

yurinka

Member
I am so glad you cleared that up. I thought third party external SSDs would need the cache scrubbers and coherency processors inside the SSD. I guess the minimum requirement is speed of 5.5 GB/sec, but why does Sony need to certify third party external SSD's? Besides speed, what else needs to be put in place for it to be compatible with PS5?

With Xbox Series X, the external SSD is:

A) Proprietary + Custom
B) Partnered with specific SSD manufacturer: Seagate

Versus Sony........ (!?!)
Regarding the required speed for external SSDs introduced on the SSD bay, Cerny said on his talk that would need to be at least as fast as the internal one if they have the same priority levels than the PS5 one (6 priority levels). So 5.5GB/s would be enough if they ever release SSDs for PC with 6 priority levels, which until now isn't the case.

He said that if they have less priority levels, which is the case of all the existing and announced SSDs for PC (they have 2 priority levels) their speed must be higher than 5.5GB/s, because it will have to do certain work to compensate it. He explained some extra details in the talk but didn't mention specifically the speed required for NVMe PCIe 4.0 SSDs with 2 priority levels.

He mentioned that in the future they would share all the details and a related website listing all the compatible SSDs with PS5. All 3rd party SSDs from any brand that fit these requirements and fit in the bay will work on PS5. Unlike the Series X one, they don't need to be approved or licensed by Sony because won't use any propietary stuff as it is the connection that the propietary Series X external SSD will use (which means only a handful brands will make Series X external SSDs so they won't reduce their price over time as fast as the other ones).

Like Series X, PS5 will also support external storage mostly for BC games, captured stuff and so on via USB. PS5 features USB 3.2 gen 2 (10Gbps) vs the 3.1 gen 1 (5 Gbps), so USB pendrives, HDD and SSD will perform faster on PS5 too. Notice that Gbps is smaller than GB/s, so this means that USB SSDs won't be fast enough to run PS5 games because the USB max speed will be a bottleneck.
 
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Some news, I am under the impression that Quentin Cobb (ND vet) is the studio head or director for the new Uncharted studio at San Diego.

I also have doubts that Kojima is working on a PS exclusive... which (if it is a decision on Sony's part) is a terrible, shortsighted call and will be regretted....just like all the other developers they had in the palm of their hands with incredible potential but never formally made part of PS Studios.

I would rather they put their money someplace else and let Kojima do his own thing, MGSV was one of the most overrated games I have ever played and I had no interest in Death Stranding, it didn't seem to do all that well either so I think that would be enough to have Sony hold back on furthering that relationship.
 

INC

Member
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