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Opinion Business Game Dev Phil Spencer Says The Gaming Industry Needs More Black Leaders

reptilex

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This thread is symptomatic of the reason why companies have to act against racism, the constant defence of racism from people who pretend not to be while daring to evoke merit and yet are triggered every time someone talks or tries to do things against racism.

That's because SJWs lost themselves in endless post-structuralist and Bourdieusian "magic thinking" shortcut, talking about in BS "diversity" marketing terms instead of saying things clearly: lots of people who work in video game companies are impostor with no merit, and they all "look alike", for many reasons, and racism is one of them.

They never talk about how their own structure "has a diversity problem" because in the first place they have consanguineous white-collar racist HRs who don't hire on talent, competency and merit...people should stop arguing or even buying into these diversity false-flags.
 
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Alan Wake

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I'm black. Fuck this pageantry of pandering. Hire based off of your skill set, accomplishments and credentials, not your race. This is racial discrimination taking precedent over being qualified to do the job. I hate this shit. If anything, just even the playing field for applicants when applying for a position and we're good.

Well said.
 

Demon2blades

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But people get hired all the time because of the color of their skin. Were you complaining when those people were white? Did you sit down and think to yourself "that black guy over there is damn near overqualified, why'd they hire that white guy?" 20 bucks say you have never said that.

My point is that Phil is coming at the problem wrong altogether. It shouldn't be "I need to give more black people a chance". Black People don't want special treatment. We want equal treatment.

Yeah sure I bet that has happend 100% unfortunately there are people that are like that and it needs to change but if I thought people like Phil Spenser and big company's in the public eye really thought that way and genuinely wanted to help wouldn't they be best setting up aid/education and family advice programmes spending some of those millions in the poorest parts of black America or around the world right at the source of actual poverty actually making a difference instead of playing up to today's narrative it just feels fashionable for company's and spokespersons to say these things publicly and it feels fake.
 

Jigsaah

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Yeah sure I bet that has happend 100% unfortunately there are people that are like that and it needs to change but if I thought people like Phil Spenser and big company's in the public eye really thought that way and genuinely wanted to help wouldn't they be best setting up aid/education and family advice programmes spending some of those millions in the poorest parts of black America or around the world right at the source of actual poverty actually making a difference instead of playing up to today's narrative it just feels fashionable for company's and spokespersons to say these things publicly and it feels fake.
You nailed it. Equality doesn't start at the corporate level. It starts at the source. Educational programs that help black people to even get to the point where they can qualify for these kind of positions to begin with. What black folks need is the same early opportunities at the same quality that others enjoy. To be honest it's not just black people either. There are white poor neighborhoods too that have terrible schools. I work for a University that has an online program. So I get to speak to people from all over the country daily. It is very apparent that there are people of all races who want to go into computer-based careers, but haven't had the proper education to begin with to prepare them to even take the first steps.

You have to start at the beginning. You're exactly right.
 

Jigsaah

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Most people do. It's sadly ironic that it was leftist racism and segregation ideology that finally forced me to realize that some of the people I grew up with, friends and colleagues had a different ethnicity.
I'd argue that it's not exclusive to the left or the right. It's what the country was founded on. It permeates media, government, education, criminal justice, societal norms, etc. The left and the right just have different way of deploying the idea in the first place.

I learned how different the world could be when I went to Japan. While there is a bias against foreigners in Japan, racism is much less apparent in everyday life. What I experienced was more that people thought I was "exotic". A lot of people there have never met a black person. That is changing more and more nowadays and it'll be interesting to see if racism becomes a thing in Japan.
 

danielJackson

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Imagine if a Jew said "we don't need more Jews like me in our organization".

White guilt (conveniently not putting his own job at risk, of course) is so blasé in America these days.

Yeah it is stupid.

It is always about "lets force these people into position x because of their skin color"

Instead of letting talent talk.

If 100% black company can make next hit game, no body stops them. If they dont, it is not fault of others. Not all companies succeed

Same madness as turning characters that have been white for decades into black on movies/series, it is just stupid and lazy shortcut.

Like, why not write a good new character with good origin story and they just happen to be non-white?

It is just racism against whites(and asians), otherwise making next black panther to be white would be completely normal.

If white -> black is ok, but black -> white is not = it is just racism in a disguise.

If gypsies dont happen to turn into gifted leaders or devs, then should we force them into positions?

if whites cant run 100m fastest, should we shoot others in the leg to make them win?

no.

People are different, cultures are different, and forcing people into positions because of how they look is just wrong.


Here at Finland there is one association that pushes the agenda of Africans into universities.

I know a person whom is professor in one of our universities, and his/hers boss have promised to be part of this, so soon they will have minimum of 50% of the class to be people brought from Africa, and non-africans that would have 100x more better papers to get in are not let in, before the quota is filled. They said they do this even when corona situation is bad, fly them from Africa to here.

And he/she have been teaching African exchange students among other and said that they are literally the most stupid students as a group from them all, not just average, but literally unable to learn basics, so many just let them trough. And middle-eastern students typically waste hours to write long emails how it is oppression if they have to do projects and they should be let trough or it is racism. That some cant even count and he/she had to explain math by using "counting apples as an example".

At university level.

This is the madness that happens when skin color is used as the main reason instead of talent.

I'm not saying that there arent smart and gifted people in all races, I'm saying that forcing quotas just by skin color leads often into shit show


Whites are already minority on earth (vs blacks + Asians) yet somehow whites are always portrayed as some evil majority, just because we have(had) our own successful countries.

Which is also wrong to have 100% white country, yet nobody says that it is wrong to have 100% black or asian country.

American obsession of skin color is ruining the world. Like reading american news, the race is always in the main part of the story, instead of just saying "man or woman".
 
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ruvikx

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Here at Finland there is one association that pushes the agenda of Africans into universities.

I know a person whom is professor in one of our universities, and his/hers boss have promised to be part of this, so soon they will have minimum of 50% of the class to be people brought from Africa, and non-africans that would have 100x more better papers to get in are not let in, before the quota is filled.

It's not just stupid, it's criminal. It's that moment when "positive discrimination" becomes straight-up discrimination against whites. Like a pogrom chasing whites out of university positions (in your example) or jobs (Phil Spencer's example).

It's also a testament to how much of a failure the diversity agenda has been, i.e. having to force quotas to reach a goal which equal opportunity & meritocracy cannot achieve is simply evidence of a totally unworkable situation. Throwing words like "racist", "bigot", "white privilege", "white fragility" or whatnot at whites who're losing their jobs & positions due to skin color will get old real fast. And the manner in which it's applied across the western world & Europe, even in places where whites are the indigenous people (like Finland) shows the old excuse they use in America (i.e. "whites aren't indigenous to America") is just bullshit because the same diversity agenda is applied everywhere.

Wait & see I suppose. But I know there's loads of people seriously pissed off in the west.
 
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Woopah

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Nope, it shouldn't matter, but it appears that you are staying what it should be like. In fact if you read what diversity consultants write about their work and how you approach hiring/ promotion under "diversity and inclusion" you would know that this is not at all about giving everybody a fighting chance, but about the specific representation quotas, at all levels of all organizations all the time (anyway, with the awards putting in place representation requirements any corporation that aspire to even be considered for one needs to meet these requirements).

My problem is with the word "need", saying that they would like more "American black culture" in their games, or something like that.

To be fair though, MSs output as a publisher is irrelevant, so trying something different can only help them improve.

On the other hand I definitely feel that if some manager was caught discriminating based on race in their hiring/promoting process, any business should fire them on the spot, this kind of attitude should not be tolerated at work--no matter what company policy and laws are... The problem at the moment is that the definition of the word racism itself is at play, which makes it pretty hard to have a fair discussion on the topic.
I've worked quite closely with a corporate Inclusion & Diversity team and there are no quotas whatsoever. It's all about removing barriers and building an inclusive place to work so you attract the best talent.

Ultimately we don't know what Microsoft's approach is, but far too many people in this thread are making assumptions about hiring people based on skin colour or choosing diversity over talent,when there's no evidence of that in Phil's interview.
 

kuncol02

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Industry don't need more black leaders in US. That will change shit.
Industry need more games made outside of US/Europe/Japan. Where are Indian/South American/African based games? They don't have stories to tell? Where are wuxia games? Or even games based on HK kung fu movies? There is no African myth worth telling in form of a game?
Almost everything we have is modern US (with it's wars)/future US/medieval Europe. Sometimes ancient Europe, maybe Egypt but nothing less known. Seriously that's all people can think about?
Am I only one who want's more diverse games? But culturally diverse not "let's have 50% of people in our black" diverse. That's not real diversity.
 

reptilex

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Industry don't need more black leaders in US. That will change shit.
Industry need more games made outside of US/Europe/Japan. Where are Indian/South American/African based games? They don't have stories to tell? Where are wuxia games? Or even games based on HK kung fu movies? There is no African myth worth telling in form of a game?
Almost everything we have is modern US (with it's wars)/future US/medieval Europe. Sometimes ancient Europe, maybe Egypt but nothing less known. Seriously that's all people can think about?
Am I only one who want's more diverse games? But culturally diverse not "let's have 50% of people in our black" diverse. That's not real diversity.

Oh sweet berry child, and soon you'll be discovering neo-colonialism and imperialism...
 

Soodanim

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This is one of those things that when you cut the publicity you find a nugget of truth.

Why diversity?

People draw from experiences, and if you have people from a range of backgrounds you have more to draw upon for the worlds you create. That doesn't mean employing a Ghanaian man because he's black. It can apply to two white people in England if one grew up rich and one grew up poor. That is the value of diversity, and it's a word that's thrown around so often it loses meaning.


Minority managers?

The problem with the approach of Phil Spencer's public statement is that it implies that throwing people into roles fixes the problem. You don't instantly become an effective manager by virtue of being an ethnic minority, this is something that needs to happen from below. Build people up and give them jobs they deserve, just like it should be for anyone else. Or, in a common phrase that already exists: grass roots.


"Why are there less people from X background in this industry?"

This is the only question that matters from Phil's statement. It's a question that could have various different answers, and the answers give you a place to start. Making people managers isn't the solution, but rather a shallow, short term facade that doesn't fix anything.
 

QuantumZebra

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I'm totally pro-diversity in gaming (and everywhere else)... but put your money where your mouth is.

The industry needs to be HIRING more diverse folks, not tweeting about it.
 

Woo-Fu

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Instead of saying you need more diversity hires say you need more diversity candidates to hire. There isn't a huge pool of educated and experienced talent out there that can't get a job because they're black, at least not in this industry. It's not racism preventing the hires, though racism might have partial responsibility for the candidates not existing in the first place.
 
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Saruhashi

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During a recent interview with Xbox chief Phil Spencer, I asked him about this. His company, Microsoft, had made several pledges, including to do better by its Black employees, to recruit more Black workers to the tech giant, and to “double the number of Black and African American people managers, senior individual contributors, and senior leaders in the United States by 2025.”

That was in June, when everyone was talking about racial justice.

“One of the worries is you kind of get hyper-focused at a certain time, and the election comes along and months go by and you almost just kind of shift,” Spencer told me. “The conversation turns to something else. And I do think it’s something that we should come back to.”

We came back to it when we were speaking last month, during a conversation that was set up ostensibly to talk about the next generation of Xboxes, which we talked about plenty. We put the Xbox hardware talk on pause, though, when I asked how Microsoft was following through on its pledges. At one point in the exchange Spencer and I talked about Black people’s prominence—or lack thereof—in game studios and in leadership.

“The area where I think we really need to focus more as an industry, including my own team, are, as you said, those visible leaders,” Spencer said. “Because there was a generation where this didn’t happen.”

For years, Spencer was noting, Black people have not been given many chances to lead in gaming. Other people—the implication being “white people”—have ascended in the ranks at Western game companies.

“And as those people move up inside of the organization, you get a lot of people like me,” Spencer said, acknowledging that he’s yet another white guy in power. “And we don’t need more people like me in our organization. We need a more diverse team. So I’d say, for our focus right now, I think about manager representation.”

Check the link for more.

I have no problem with this. Their company, their decisions. If its legal, of course.

What I don't get is why this dickhead is talking about it instead of just doing it.

Create 5, 10, 20 positions and bring in your preferred candidates. It's not like the company is short of money and it's not like Phil Spencer is some low level grunt. Create the positions and fill them or shut the fuck up.

Reminds me of Feminist Frequency doing all those videos then raking in some serious cash. So while they are bragging about all the money they are raking in your thinking "OK found an indie studio and let's see your games made by your chosen people". Hahaha. Nope.

"Oh wow its just not good that it's people like my who always end up as the head of xbox."

OK, you utter bellend, why not just hand in your resignation right now and someone who isn't like you can easily replace you?

Ah. Didn't think so.

It feels like almost a decade now since these companies started talking the big talk about this stuff. Kids who were just graduating back then will be approaching, or will be into, their 30s now. Surely it's time to just create some of these positions and fill them with good people?
 

Jeeves

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I'm not sure I understand what the tangible advantage of diversity is even supposed to be, but for argument's sake let's just assume for a moment that it is something worth striving for:

Doesn't it seem like putting the cart before the horse, to say "companies need to hire more blacks" instead of "we should foster their talents via better education/training so that when they apply to these companies their qualifications are more comparable to the usual hires"? In other words, why the push to go out of the way to hire less-qualified people instead of pushing to beef up those people's qualifications?

It's shortsighted. In the end, minorities will be set back when everyone can point to examples of bad games made by "diverse" teams of under-qualified people.

I guess the answer to my own question is probably that they don't actually care about the minorities in the long run, they just want to gain good press while diversity hires are fashionable.
 
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AJUMP23

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Why does everything have to revolve around skin color?

Individuals are obsessed with it. Some make it part of their identity, other part of their bias. Many feel guilt for how one skin color has held power over other skin colors for generations. It is also used by our media to influence and project certain imagery to evoke us to react a certain way when we an individual of a certain color. Our culture is obsessed with it and what it means to that person.
 
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SegaSnatcher

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Virtue Signaling at max levels. People shouldn't get hired or promoted simply by the basis of their skin color. Having quotas is stupid.

Judge people by their worth ethic I say.
 

Akuji

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now hes also racist towards white people?
luckily xbox is not really a thing in germany anyway.

if u want diversity, dont give a fuck about that shit and just hire the most qualified person for any given job. african american european asien doesnt matter.
Morgan Freeman ur lessons where for nothing :/
 
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mr.dilya

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Should they pay for scholarships for black people and not for white people?

I mean, opportunities should be given regardless of gender or color. Positive discrimination is still discrimination.

nah that’s one thing that would make sense....affirmative action is bullshit but for those black students who are already excelling academically there’s nothing wrong with rewarding them. Yes it is preferential treatment based on race but black Americans have a much greater impact and contribution to the legacy of this country than Asian Americans, who are the ones who would be affected the most by that kind of legislation.

white people are always going to be on top here, so that’s a moot point.
 
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If companies hired whoever was best for the job, every job, people would NOT need to have this conversation now. Fact is no industry has been untouched by race playing a factor in hiring.
That's a big accusation made on a lot of people right there, and it's impossible to falsify... pretty much something nobody can act upon, one way or the other.