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Opinion Business Game Dev Phil Spencer Says The Gaming Industry Needs More Black Leaders

Somnium

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Pandering and platitudes :rolleyes:

Why not more exceptionally talented & skilled leaders in the industry period?
I'm for anyone taking on leadership roles within the industry, so long as it's based on merit and not immutable characteristics or affirmative action.
Equal opportunity > equal outcome. I don't give a damn if you're black, white, green, or purple.
 
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Demon2blades

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Phile says whatever PR bullshit it takes to be the Golden Boy of Xbox fans.

I don't think he's saying it for Xbox fans because most fans of anything despise virtue signaling he's saying it because company's somehow think it's what normal people want to hear and that's the current narrative churned out by the far left I guess .
 
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Twinguistics

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How about appointing whoever is best for the jobs, regardless of colour. Checklist culture will fail long term imo.
The problem is that people aren't doing that. Unless, of course, you believe that white males make better games and that's why the industry is majority white males (in the us and Europe at least I imagine).

He's being an advocate of appointing the best person for the job and so essentially, you're just agreeing with him.
 
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PlayerPurple

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See I had not heard of these guys before. I think some people take this to the extreme when thinking about it ( even based off a few posts in this thread there are some with a "they will not replace us vibe in the posts"). There is no need for that. Spencer is saying they want to be more inclusive, but this isn't about making or changing anyone in a majority. This happens by Race, language, gender, all the time. It needs to stop.
Sure it’s sad, but maybe not surprising that a place like Neogaf isn’t a great place for professional advice. Especially after taking away the “college email” requirement.
 
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N30RYU

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Maybe that's what Ubi thought about it's indian studio to remake the prince of persia...


Possitive discrimination... is still discrimination
 
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Deaconstanjesusman

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As a non white anglo person I hate these comments and this attitude. It’s applied to women and minorities. They should want the job based on their merits, not because they fill a checkbox. The person in charge at Xbox or manager in a certain role should be there because they’re the best person for the job
 

The Hamburglar

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I've noticed a correlation between xbox fans and this forums right leaning members. It must really rile up xbox fans that their deity is saying stuff like this.

I didn't even realise gaming had 'leaders' other than a few heads of the the console publishers. For example, I would hardly call bobby kotick a leader, more a fat cunt who collects his paycheque and counts his money.
 
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This way of thinking makes everything even more racist. Do the people that say this actually hear themselves?

You think that a black person isn't able to get the job only on merits so you have to make it more accessible for them?

Da fuck?
 

Twinguistics

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This way of thinking makes everything even more racist. Do the people that say this actually hear themselves?

You think that a black person isn't able to get the job only on merits so you have to make it more accessible for them?

Da fuck?
You're missing the point.

The theory is that people aren't hiring the best people for the job. They are hiring the best person that looks like them, i.e the best white person available when they aren't the best person to interview.

It's supposed to be combating something called unconscious bias.

Look it up.
 
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Valued Gamer

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No. MS needs the best leaders they can find. If it turns out they are black, or women, so be it.
Maybe if 343 hired the best talent they could find, Halo would have launched.

Reality is this. Say I or my family member needed a life saving operation, and the best surgeon in the world was a black, trans, Muslim then I want that person doing the operation. I don't care who you are, I just want the best person for the job.
 

The Alien

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funny how these virtue signalling types supposedly striving for more diversity are never willing to give up their own jobs, just those of their subordinates.
Yes very similar to wealthy elites and millionaire celebrities (like Ruffalo) preaching to us that the economy is broken and unbalanced....we should try socialism, etc. Lol.
 

MrFunSocks

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We need the best people for the job, regardless of skin colour. Just because you're black shouldn't mean you now get preference because some people have white guilt.

That's why I hate "diversity hire enforcement". You should only ever be trying to hire the best person for the job. If the best person for the job is white, that's just unlucky for the black guy that was second best. If the best guy is black then unlucky for the white guy.
 

Umbral

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The problem is that people aren't doing that. Unless, of course, you believe that white males make better games and that's why the industry is majority white males (in the us and Europe at least I imagine).

He's being an advocate of appointing the best person for the job and so essentially, you're just agreeing with him.

That’s a very big accusation. In-group preference is in everyone. If what you are saying is true, then the black people hired will hire more black people instead of the best person, women will only hire other women, and so on. It doesn’t cut only one direction.

You're missing the point.

The theory is that people aren't hiring the best people for the job. They are hiring the best person that looks like them, i.e the best white person available when they aren't the best person to interview.

It's supposed to be combating something called unconscious bias.

Look it up.
The studies for unconscious bias actually show that it makes things worse and more racist.

Who would have thought that telling people they’re racist and don’t even know it makes things worse.

Edit: You also have the bonus of others thinking that you only got the position because of “diversity hiring” and you yourself may indeed wonder if you were actually qualified or if you were just hired for superficial characteristics. It’s not good.
 
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It's about giving people opportunities, not jobs. When it comes to choosing the right candidate to promote/hire, skin colour shouldn't matter.
Nope, it shouldn't matter, but it appears that you are staying what it should be like. In fact if you read what diversity consultants write about their work and how you approach hiring/ promotion under "diversity and inclusion" you would know that this is not at all about giving everybody a fighting chance, but about the specific representation quotas, at all levels of all organizations all the time (anyway, with the awards putting in place representation requirements any corporation that aspire to even be considered for one needs to meet these requirements).

My problem is with the word "need", saying that they would like more "American black culture" in their games, or something like that.

To be fair though, MSs output as a publisher is irrelevant, so trying something different can only help them improve.

On the other hand I definitely feel that if some manager was caught discriminating based on race in their hiring/promoting process, any business should fire them on the spot, this kind of attitude should not be tolerated at work--no matter what company policy and laws are... The problem at the moment is that the definition of the word racism itself is at play, which makes it pretty hard to have a fair discussion on the topic.
 

RoyalLaFlame

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I'm all for more inclusion of people of various skin colors, beliefs, whatever. It's good for multi cultural exchange and debate, keeping ideas and approaches fresh.


But hiring a black person just for being black? Uh, how about merit? How about work? Yes, you can make it a little easier for them to get on board (like they do here for some things), but I think just the skin color is not enough.
 

reinking

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Phil. Hire me.

 
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TeezzyD

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Why is it always black? Why not natives, why not mexican, latino, middle eastern, aboriginal, etc etc etc.

It's like there's only two ethnicities to some people. Black and white.

Because native Americans arent gonna have antifa light your house on fire if you buy the wrong brand of pancakes for breakfast
 

Jigsaah

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Hate things like this people should be hired on their own merit not the colour of Thier skin .
But people get hired all the time because of the color of their skin. Were you complaining when those people were white? Did you sit down and think to yourself "that black guy over there is damn near overqualified, why'd they hire that white guy?" 20 bucks say you have never said that.

My point is that Phil is coming at the problem wrong altogether. It shouldn't be "I need to give more black people a chance". Black People don't want special treatment. We want equal treatment.
 

EDMIX

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Soon.

Its not a overnight type thing. I also feel because even in the US where gaming is big, we in the Black community still make up a small percentage of the population, so I think it will happen over time with the next generation. Being a leader in the gaming industry is hard period.
 

Dr Bass

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But people get hired all the time because of the color of their skin. Were you complaining when those people were white? Did you sit down and think to yourself "that black guy over there is damn near overqualified, why'd they hire that white guy?" 20 bucks say you have never said that.

My point is that Phil is coming at the problem wrong altogether. It shouldn't be "I need to give more black people a chance". Black People don't want special treatment. We want equal treatment.

I've personally never seen that situation, for anyone of any color or gender, with a career spanning almost 20 years now. Do you think this is common?
 

Jigsaah

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I've personally never seen that situation, for anyone of any color or gender, with a career spanning almost 20 years now. Do you think this is common?
Absolutely. Not only is it common, but it's normal. So people who aren't affected by it don't realize it's even happening.

To be clear, it's not everybody's fault. Not everyone is in charge. Before Trump, racism was still here, but it wasn't as visible as it has been thee last 4 years. No people are starting to see how it happens, and it's blatant. Good people want it to change, but I don't they fully understand how to go about it.
 
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Dr Bass

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Absolutely.

BTW, if it comes to being overqualified, a good reason to not hire someone is fear they will leave the position when they find something that's a better fit. Hiring is incredibly tough, time consuming and expensive. You don't want to hire someone who should be doing something else. I've never seen an over qualified candidate come through in my line of work, or see someone be ignored because of any kind of identity trait (which would be completely reprehensible), but yeah, the overqualified thing would cut across all demographics for the reasons I stated above. If you have seen it, ascribing it to race right off the bat seems strange to me.

Edit: Not saying I am 100% right here at all either.
 
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Porcile

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About as one dimensional and thoughtful as this guy's desire to get more Japanese game exclusives is.
 
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Bogroll

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But people get hired all the time because of the color of their skin. Were you complaining when those people were white? Did you sit down and think to yourself "that black guy over there is damn near overqualified, why'd they hire that white guy?" 20 bucks say you have never said that.

My point is that Phil is coming at the problem wrong altogether. It shouldn't be "I need to give more black people a chance". Black People don't want special treatment. We want equal treatment.
I never have no. But I never thought like that all. 30 years later I realised (because of BLM) most of my friends at School where Black and Asian. To me they are my friends. Are I suppost to now think of them as my Black and Asian friends because I sure am not going to. They are my friends.
 
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EDMIX

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I've personally never seen that situation, for anyone of any color or gender, with a career spanning almost 20 years now. Do you think this is common?

I've not only seen it before, I heard a manager joking about it when I used to work for Best Buy in 2009-2011. At the time, I never really heard anything like that in person as I knew it happened, but not so direct. I built PC's part time before I got hired at Best Buy and I used that experience to get a sales job, but they also hired me because I worked at a K-Mart and Toys R Us prior to that, keep in mind that was between 2007-2008. So the person that was going in for the same Sales Job at the PCHO department that I was in legit had 20 years experience with PCs, I felt like (oh shit, that man has seen some shit lol).

The manager legit stated he is more qualified then the entire PCHO team combined, then proceeded to joke about "we have enough homeboyz in PCHO" laughs, "brothas of PCHO" proceeds to laugh more. I laughed too, I was young, ignorant, I didn't get that he wasn't simply joking, but this man really didn't get hired and the process continued.

Only when I saw a bunch of other new people did I realize this person was for real. Its unfortunate and sad, but it really does happen sometimes.

Keep in mind I agree with your other post though, I get why sometimes that can happen, but the way the manager made those jokes came across like he had a issue with black people, even if it was in a joking way. The overqualified thing for sure is a whole different conversation of ethics. I hate hearing that shit, imagine punishing a person down on their luck because they spent decades of their life building a solid portfolio of a resume? That shit is depressing.
 
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Dr Bass

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I've not only seen it before, I heard a manager joking about it when I used to work for Best Buy in 2009-2011. At the time, I never really heard anything like that in person as I knew it happened, but not so direct. I built PC's part time before I got hired at Best Buy and I used that experience to get a sales job, but they also hired me because I worked at a K-Mart and Toys R Us prior to that, keep in mind that was between 2007-2008. So the person that was going in for the same Sales Job at the PCHO department that I was in legit had 20 years experience with PCs, I felt like (oh shit, that man has seen some shit lol).

The manager legit stated he is more qualified then the entire PCHO team combined, then proceeded to joke about "we have enough homeboyz in PCHO" laughs, "brothas of PCHO" proceeds to laugh more. I laughed too, I was young, ignorant, I didn't get that he wasn't simply joking, but this man really didn't get hired and the process continued.

Only when I saw a bunch of other new people did I realize this person was for real. Its unfortunate and sad, but it really does happen sometimes.

Keep in mind I agree with your other post though, I get why sometimes that can happen, but the way the manager made those jokes came across like he had a issue with black people, even if it was in a joking way. The overqualified thing for sure is a whole different conversation of ethics. I hate hearing that shit, imagine punishing a person down on their luck because they spent decades of their life building a solid portfolio of a resume? That shit is depressing.

Yeah, the manager in your story sounds like a total bum. I don't think anything is off limits when it comes to comedy, but his "jokes" aren't funny at all. I really, genuinely hope that people not getting hired because of "who they are" is an incredibly small statistic, percentage wise. That kinda thing is rage inducing.

And yeah, being overqualified, "ageism", all of those things are real and yeah, kinda scary as you start getting older. :)
 
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Jigsaah

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BTW, if it comes to being overqualified, a good reason to not hire someone is fear they will leave the position when they find something that's a better fit. Hiring is incredibly tough, time consuming and expensive. You don't want to hire someone who should be doing something else. I've never seen an over qualified candidate come through in my line of work, or see someone be ignored because of any kind of identity trait (which would be completely reprehensible), but yeah, the overqualified thing would cut across all demographics for the reasons I stated above. If you have seen it, ascribing it to race right off the bat seems strange to me.

Edit: Not saying I am 100% right here at all either.
"Over-qualified" at some point becomes an excuse rather than a reason. I'm not saying this happens in all cases either. It's difficult to find hard proof. Typically a person won't know about the inner workings of some corporation and their hiring practices. However, once you're in a position at a company and faced withthe challenge of moving up the ladder it can become very apparent, very automatic and interestingly, under-identified.

I think Phil has realized this and is trying to change it, but again I feel like the way he's doing it is by giving blacks special treatment. No, just stop looking at us as just "black people". Don't feel guilty, black people don't care about your guilt. Just start the process to make a change where everyone is on equal footing. Giving black people special treatment does nothing to help that. Then white folks, asian folks, hispanic folks start feeling discriminated against, which then in turn causes white folks to retaliate and the viscous cycle begins again


I never have no. But I never thought like that all. 30 years later I realised (because of BLM) most of my friends at School where Black and Asian. To me they are my friends. Are I suppost to now think of them as my Black and Asian friends because I sure am not going to. They are my friends.

More people need to think like you.
 

Dr Bass

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I think Phil has realized this and is trying to change it, but again I feel like the way he's doing it is by giving blacks special treatment. No, just stop looking at us as just "black people". Don't feel guilty, black people don't care about your guilt. Just start the process to make a change where everyone is on equal footing. Giving black people special treatment does nothing to help that. Then white folks, asian folks, hispanic folks start feeling discriminated against, which then in turn causes white folks to retaliate and the viscous cycle begins again

Couldn't agree more really.
 
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Hugare

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Seeing the forest for the trees

You got to look for the root of the problem: education and social/economic background

This is ridiculous. This doesnt solve anything.

If anything, this will lead to worse products > bad sales > less jobs