• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Phil Spencer says he spends ‘zero energy’ on console wars - ‘doesn’t envision’ a time when every Xbox user subscribes to Game Pass

DarkMage619

Member
It really is less complicated than that. Spencer was clearly talking about Sony.

Eurogamer completely agrees even you pretend otherwise.

“Spencer doesn't name Sony in his comments, but it's clear which company he is talking about here.”
Perception is reality. People again are looking for conflict when there isn't any. Sony barely cares about PC releases anyway.
 

ZywyPL

Gold Member
Spencer and co were the ones who started saying their TFLOP dick was the biggest in the world, you can't talk that down... They fabricated hype about a meaningless stat for their fans to get rabid behind.

At least Sony went the "be quiet and let the fans/franchises create the hype" route, just dropping a exquisitely dry "deep dive" video.

Maybe after all those years of reading all the 1.3 vs 1.8TF and 900p vs 1080p debates he came to conclusion that processing power and resolution is what people really care a lot about.

I see that many people here still can't get over the fact that after 1X launched the PS consoles lost the power crown ever since, and see it as MS' initiative to fuel console wars, but that's how the console landscape always has been, who has the better, faster hardware - bits, megahertz, megabytes, it always has been about who has the higher numbers on the spec sheet, because A) you can leverage the marketing with it, and B) that what used to drive the devs to make games on you system, because they could make stuff on your console that's not possible elsewhere.
 

Topher

Gold Member
Maybe after all those years of reading all the 1.3 vs 1.8TF and 900p vs 1080p debates he came to conclusion that processing power and resolution is what people really care a lot about.

I see that many people here still can't get over the fact that after 1X launched the PS consoles lost the power crown ever since, and see it as MS' initiative to fuel console wars, but that's how the console landscape always has been, who has the better, faster hardware - bits, megahertz, megabytes, it always has been about who has the higher numbers on the spec sheet, because A) you can leverage the marketing with it, and B) that what used to drive the devs to make games on you system, because they could make stuff on your console that's not possible elsewhere.

That's all fine, but promoting the "world's most powerful console" is factually spending energy on the console war. This is really the only problem I have with Spencer. He talks as if he is above such things, but he engages in it so often that is so easy to call him out on his bullshit. Spencer is in competition with Sony and clearly he wants to differentiate Xbox from PlayStation. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. It is what he should do. But he needs to stop pretending he doesn't dirty his hands with console war narratives because that is just bullshit.
 

DarkMage619

Member
In that quote......"Others bring console games to PC years later, not only making people buy their hardware up front but then charging them a second time to play on PC" what "hardware" do you think Spencer is talking about?
Again what makes this 'warring'? Was it 'warring' when Sony execs did the PS4 game sharing hand off? Phil is promoting the benefits of his company's platform. Just like when Reggie was selling Nintendo products. It isn't any attack on anybody.
 

Tschumi

Member
Maybe after all those years of reading all the 1.3 vs 1.8TF and 900p vs 1080p debates he came to conclusion that processing power and resolution is what people really care a lot about.

I see that many people here still can't get over the fact that after 1X launched the PS consoles lost the power crown ever since, and see it as MS' initiative to fuel console wars, but that's how the console landscape always has been, who has the better, faster hardware - bits, megahertz, megabytes, it always has been about who has the higher numbers on the spec sheet, because A) you can leverage the marketing with it, and B) that what used to drive the devs to make games on you system, because they could make stuff on your console that's not possible elsewhere.
... Nah, that's just the narrative they wanted to establish, Nintendo disproves the value of power wars
 

DarkMage619

Member
... Nah, that's just the narrative they wanted to establish, Nintendo disproves the value of power wars
Not sure how much we can use Nintendo to gage anything in the console market currently. They rely almost entirely on first party software when no other platform would survive with that business model. They also rarely if ever drop prices on their software and are focused on mobile gaming. They are clearly marching to the beat of their own drum.
 

Topher

Gold Member
Again what makes this 'warring'? Was it 'warring' when Sony execs did the PS4 game sharing hand off? Phil is promoting the benefits of his company's platform. Just like when Reggie was selling Nintendo products. It isn't any attack on anybody.

"Promotion" becomes "warring" when the narrative becomes "my product is better than theirs". Yes, the PS4 game sharing video was absolutely "warring" on Sony's part. I'd rather Spencer just engage in his comparisons and not pretend he is above the fray. There is nothing wrong with any of this outside of Spencer saying he spends "zero energy" on any of it. He factually does.
 

Tschumi

Member
Not sure how much we can use Nintendo to gage anything in the console market currently. They rely almost entirely on first party software when no other platform would survive with that business model. They also rarely if ever drop prices on their software and are focused on mobile gaming. They are clearly marching to the beat of their own drum.
I just think they show that it's not techno-sink or techno-swim, i think xbox made it seem that way with their tflop obsession because they knew that the only thing they could conceivably win on was power... turned out ps5 MAY HAVE beat power with innovation
 
That's all fine, but promoting the "world's most powerful console" is factually spending energy on the console war. This is really the only problem I have with Spencer. He talks as if he is above such things, but he engages in it so often that is so easy to call him out on his bullshit. Spencer is in competition with Sony and clearly he wants to differentiate Xbox from PlayStation. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. It is what he should do. But he needs to stop pretending he doesn't dirty his hands with console war narratives because that is just bullshit.
That’s not console warring, that’s selling your brand. He isn’t in forums shit talking any other console or making delinquent YouTube videos to fanboy over his own console. He is the leader of Xbox and has to back his own products. He can’t just go out and say “ah our console is great and powerful, but others are just as good too!”. That’s not his job and neither is it in his description.

On top of that, he says plenty of good things of the “competition” and in no way does he go out to shit talk them or make them look bad. It’s simply that his job is to make and sell Xbox as a brand, no more no less.

Accusing him of console warring is verging on stupidity.
 

Topher

Gold Member
That’s not console warring, that’s selling your brand. He isn’t in forums shit talking any other console or making delinquent YouTube videos to fanboy over his own console. He is the leader of Xbox and has to back his own products. He can’t just go out and say “ah our console is great and powerful, but others are just as good too!”. That’s not his job and neither is it in his description.

On top of that, he says plenty of good things of the “competition” and in no way does he go out to shit talk them or make them look bad. It’s simply that his job is to make and sell Xbox as a brand, no more no less.

Accusing him of console warring is verging on stupidity.

I'll let Phil Spencer elaborate on what he means:

“But I’d say for us, it’s not about somebody else getting smaller so that we get bigger.”

Whether Spencer is bragging about his console being "more powerful" or criticizing Sony for "making people buy their hardware up front but then charging them a second time to play on PC" then yeah, he does exactly what he says he does not.
 
Last edited:

FeldMonster

Member
I do not believe the statement about not having all users on GamePass. As a longtime loyal Gold member, Microsoft just sent me a message as an "All-Star Gold Member" gifting me 5 months of Game Pass Ultimate. Fuck that. I will never subscribe to GamePass. Though I assume one day, they will force me if I want to stay on Xbox.
 

Hawking Radiation

Gold Member
It's not that complicated dude. If Capcom for instance releases Street Fighter 5 on PC and PS4 you have to buy it twice. If MS releases Forza Horizon 5 on PC and Xbox you have to buy it once. He isn't 'warring' against Capcom because he is stating that MS is offering a better value. He is selling his platform not attacking anyone.


You see 'warring' I see simple promotion. Warring is the 'Xbox suxors' crap I see posted from fanboys time to time.
Promotion huh? You must have not been around when Xbox had their foot on PlayStations neck at the start of the PS3/360 era 😂
 

ReBurn

Gold Member
What Phil is doing is called marketing. It becomes warring when we take marketing and use it to call each other delusional idiots on the website NeoGaf.com. The difference is subtle.
 
Last edited:

DarkMage619

Member
"Promotion" becomes "warring" when the narrative becomes "my product is better than theirs". Yes, the PS4 game sharing video was absolutely "warring" on Sony's part. I'd rather Spencer just engage in his comparisons and not pretend he is above the fray. There is nothing wrong with any of this outside of Spencer saying he spends "zero energy" on any of it. He factually does.
Seems like a pretty low bar to call something 'warring' if declaring your product or service offers something no other product or service offers. Phil never said he spent zero energy promoting the products his company makes. If he didn't he'd be a poor employee. You should check Twitter if you feel like saying you only have to buy one games once is warring. We have people declaring that MS is defrauding their customers. Now THAT is warring.

Promotion huh? You must have not been around when Xbox had their foot on PlayStations neck at the start of the PS3/360 era 😂
Sure I was. Just like I was around at the start of the PS2 era and PS4 era. It is not new to see companies extol the virtues of their platforms. It's hardly 'warring'. Again see Twitter or even here a few months back if you'd like to know what actual 'warring' looks like.

What Phil is doing is called marketing. It becomes warring when we take marketing and use it to call each other delusional idiots on the website NeoGaf.com. The difference is subtle.
This I can stand behind. There is a difference between marketing and attacking something or someone.
 

Topher

Gold Member
Seems like a pretty low bar to call something 'warring' if declaring your product or service offers something no other product or service offers. Phil never said he spent zero energy promoting the products his company makes. If he didn't he'd be a poor employee. You should check Twitter if you feel like saying you only have to buy one games once is warring. We have people declaring that MS is defrauding their customers. Now THAT is warring.

Again, this isn't about "promoting the products his company makes". Not sure why that keeps getting repeated. That's not what is being said at all. If Phil Spencer only talked about Xbox and never threw shade at Sony for its PC strategy then I wouldn't have even brought it up. When I read his words, that is the sort of thing I hear him saying he doesn't do.

To perhaps come to common ground here, I will say that if Spencer is talking about the mindless, petty console warrior squabbling that Twitter idiots engage in then yes, that is a different thing altogether. It might be revealing to know what the actual question that was asked of Phil Spencer here.

Either way, my opinion of Phil Spencer remains mostly positive despite the disconnect I see in what he says. I certainly don't think he is blatantly lying or anything like that.
 

ReBurn

Gold Member
Seems like a pretty low bar to call something 'warring' if declaring your product or service offers something no other product or service offers. Phil never said he spent zero energy promoting the products his company makes. If he didn't he'd be a poor employee. You should check Twitter if you feel like saying you only have to buy one games once is warring. We have people declaring that MS is defrauding their customers. Now THAT is warring.
Phil lifting up play anywhere as a benefit of Microsoft's ecosystem definitely is not "warring" as has been suggested. It's true that they're the only company of the three doing it.

Gamers have been asking for things like backward compatibility, play anywhere and smart delivery to be able to keep playing the best versions of their games. Microsoft responded with solutions. Pointing out that his team has a solution and the others don't is not warring. It's just the truth. Microsoft doesn't charge extra to upgrade first party games from One to Series. They release day and date on PC. They let you move seamlessly between where you play. These are all features nobody else is offering.

Warring is saying that Phil Spencer is no longer allowed to point out the benefits of the ecosystem he and his team are building. If he were lying that would be one thing. It's not like he's out there posting screenshots where his console hits 60 FPS at the same moment another console drops to 59 FPS and other stupid things people get banned for here.
 

DarkMage619

Member
Again, this isn't about "promoting the products his company makes". Not sure why that keeps getting repeated. That's not what is being said at all. If Phil Spencer only talked about Xbox and never threw shade at Sony for its PC strategy then I wouldn't have even brought it up. When I read his words, that is the sort of thing I hear him saying he doesn't do.

To perhaps come to common ground here, I will say that if Spencer is talking about the mindless, petty console warrior squabbling that Twitter idiots engage in then yes, that is a different thing altogether. It might be revealing to know what the actual question that was asked of Phil Spencer here.

Either way, my opinion of Phil Spencer remains mostly positive despite the disconnect I see in what he says. I certainly don't think he is blatantly lying or anything like that.
Anything said can be taken in many ways. You are choosing to hear some sort of 'shade' at Sony when I hear simple marketing and promotion. All products get compared to other products it's how marketing is done. Otherwise some wouldn't even know there was a difference. It's cool, we can just agree to disagree at least we can see a distinction between what I think warring is, Twitter, and what you might think warring is.

Phil lifting up play anywhere as a benefit of Microsoft's ecosystem definitely is not "warring" as has been suggested. It's true that they're the only company of the three doing it.

Gamers have been asking for things like backward compatibility, play anywhere and smart delivery to be able to keep playing the best versions of their games. Microsoft responded with solutions. Pointing out that his team has a solution and the others don't is not warring. It's just the truth. Microsoft doesn't charge extra to upgrade first party games from One to Series. They release day and date on PC. They let you move seamlessly between where you play. These are all features nobody else is offering.

Warring is saying that Phil Spencer is no longer allowed to point out the benefits of the ecosystem he and his team are building. If he were lying that would be one thing. It's not like he's out there posting screenshots where his console hits 60 FPS at the same moment another console drops to 59 FPS and other stupid things people get banned for here.
Yup that's my thinking as well. He is selling his platform and that's his job.
 

Topher

Gold Member
Seems like people believe DF when they say some they agree with. Plenty called them 'lairs' and 'shills' so I wonder why they'd have new credibility here.

What does that have to do with my post? I've never said anything like that.
 
Last edited:
Seems like people believe DF when they say something they agree with. Plenty called them 'lairs' and 'shills' so I wonder why they'd have new credibility here.
Calling Spencer a warrior is complete BS anyways. If Spencer was warring, why would he congratulate Sony to games like Bloodborne, God of War or the PS5? I wouldn't even call the "how to trade games" video from Sony warring. It's just healthy competition.
 

DaGwaphics

Member
That’s not console warring, that’s selling your brand. He isn’t in forums shit talking any other console or making delinquent YouTube videos to fanboy over his own console. He is the leader of Xbox and has to back his own products. He can’t just go out and say “ah our console is great and powerful, but others are just as good too!”. That’s not his job and neither is it in his description.

On top of that, he says plenty of good things of the “competition” and in no way does he go out to shit talk them or make them look bad. It’s simply that his job is to make and sell Xbox as a brand, no more no less.

Accusing him of console warring is verging on stupidity.

100%

Weirdest thing is Sony makes similar statements selling their brand (as they should), but those statements don't seem to get scrutinized. Both of these companies sell what they have to sell at any given moment and will play down things they currently don't offer. Basic business.
 

Topher

Gold Member
100%

Weirdest thing is Sony makes similar statements selling their brand (as they should), but those statements don't seem to get scrutinized. Both of these companies sell what they have to sell at any given moment and will play down things they currently don't offer. Basic business.

That's not what is under scrutiny. If Sony got on their soapbox and wagged their finger at those who made "similar statements" then that would be comparable.
 

DaGwaphics

Member
That's not what is under scrutiny. If Sony got on their soapbox and wagged their finger at those who made "similar statements" then that would be comparable.
GIF by Achievement Hunter



A bit of shade throwing when contrasting brand offerings is completely normal (most of the time simply implied, but sometimes specifically stated).
 

DaGwaphics

Member
Again, that isn't the point. The point is the hypocrisy of throwing shade and then saying you don't throw shade.

I don't even see that here. I think the console warring he is referring to is the craziness that happens on social media which often times can be very toxic and mean spirited (not the kind of joking humor typical here). Neither Sony, MS, or Nintendo have ever participated in that, for good reason.

Stretching that as if he is saying he isn't going to make efforts to sell the brand he represents over competitors is a bridge too far.
 

DarkMage619

Member
What does that have to do with my post? I've never said anything like that.
My point was DF has an opinion just like anyone else. Them saying Phil was throwing shade at Sony doesn't mean any more than you saying they were throwing shade or me saying they aren't. It's all up to interpretation. It isn't definitive.

Again, that isn't the point. The point is the hypocrisy of throwing shade and then saying you don't throw shade.
This isn't hypocrisy because he isn't warring. Products and services get compared and contrasted all the time.
 
The odd thing here is that anyone thinks this is a good thing. The "hotter" the console wars are, the more entertaining it is for us. Fire off all salvos Phil.
 

Topher

Gold Member
I don't even see that here. I think the console warring he is referring to is the craziness that happens on social media which often times can be very toxic and mean spirited (not the kind of joking humor typical here). Neither Sony, MS, or Nintendo have ever participated in that, for good reason.

Stretching that as if he is saying he isn't going to make efforts to sell the brand he represents over competitors is a bridge too far.

Nah.....Spencer has made these points before. This isn't new and hardly a bridge too far.

“We should focus on this industry that we love and see it continue to grow. And we should protect it from the issues that it does have,” said Spencer, adding that recent conversations around accessibility, inclusivity and addressing toxic, harmful communities have highlighted what truly undermines the industry. “If we’re going to spend energy, let’s go spend it on those things, not ‘my piece of plastic is better than your piece of plastic.’ I don’t think that’s a productive conversation.


I'll leave it at that.
 

Tripolygon

Member
"Promotion" becomes "warring" when the narrative becomes "my product is better than theirs". Yes, the PS4 game sharing video was absolutely "warring" on Sony's part. I'd rather Spencer just engage in his comparisons and not pretend he is above the fray. There is nothing wrong with any of this outside of Spencer saying he spends "zero energy" on any of it. He factually does.
Succinct. Own your shit. I remember when Sony trolled Nintendo with the costume character and Microsoft troll Sony at the PS3 launch. Shit was hilarious and fun. I just don't like the hypocrisy on display.
 

DarkMage619

Member
Nah.....Spencer has made these points before. This isn't new and hardly a bridge too far.

“We should focus on this industry that we love and see it continue to grow. And we should protect it from the issues that it does have,” said Spencer, adding that recent conversations around accessibility, inclusivity and addressing toxic, harmful communities have highlighted what truly undermines the industry. “If we’re going to spend energy, let’s go spend it on those things, not ‘my piece of plastic is better than your piece of plastic.’ I don’t think that’s a productive conversation.


I'll leave it at that.
There was nothing toxic or harmful in the quote you posted from Phil. In addition the other quote you had was talking about making a game available in multiple places without a requirement of buying hardware. That's kind of the opposite of my plastic is better than your plastic arguments had on the internet.
 

Duchess

Member
Xbox was released in 2001. People who born in that age, are 20 now. People who were 10 years old, are 30 years old now.
And those who were 23 are now approaching 45. They'll soon be selecting "Easy" when starting a new game, because the reaction times and patience will have largely evaporated :)

(for now, this guy has decided to actually play Elden Ring, so has decided to git gud one last time)
 

DaGwaphics

Member
Nah.....Spencer has made these points before. This isn't new and hardly a bridge too far.

“We should focus on this industry that we love and see it continue to grow. And we should protect it from the issues that it does have,” said Spencer, adding that recent conversations around accessibility, inclusivity and addressing toxic, harmful communities have highlighted what truly undermines the industry. “If we’re going to spend energy, let’s go spend it on those things, not ‘my piece of plastic is better than your piece of plastic.’ I don’t think that’s a productive conversation.


I'll leave it at that.

Again, that statement is referring to toxic, harmful communities. In no way is that implying that MS isn't going to basically advertise that their plastic box is the best plastic box for X reason. They are going to try and sell their box, they wouldn't have built it otherwise. MS doesn't outwardly demonize their competitors in advertising (though both Sega and Nintendo used that tactic in the past), but when they highlight their hardware they are going to contrast that against the competition when it makes sense to do so. Shouldn't come as a surprise.
 

Topher

Gold Member
What are you on about? When did Spencer say not to do it? You're just looking for a reason to be outraged.

I already quoted him:

"If we’re going to spend energy, let’s go spend it on those things, not ‘my piece of plastic is better than your piece of plastic.’"

No idea why a criticism of Phil Spencer is considered to be "outrage". Either way, you are late the conversation and I'm not rehashing it for your benefit.
 

DaGwaphics

Member
"Do as I say. Not as I do."

Jimmy Fallon Reaction GIF by The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon

It just isn't that hard to understand, tbh.

On one hand you have toxic fanboy-ism on the internet where a ton of energy is spent not on enjoying or sharing game experiences but in a constant game of one-upmanship over the consoles with a lot of that energy spent on hating the "other" at all costs. This is what Spencer is saying he doesn't support, this is the console warring he is talking about.

Then there is the completely separate subject of a corporation advertising their product. Anytime you hear "best value" or really any reason provided for buying any product, that is basically selling the idea that object X is better than object Z because....

You can do one without supporting the other. When one truck brand says their new pickup is the best because of XYZ, that does not equate to them supporting a group of fanboys that go around the internet trashing all other truck brands and their owners. It's a very simple concept.

The toxicity that exists around consoles and even gaming storefronts on PC is obvious for anyone to see. I don't have a problem with it when it is playful and brotherly, but it does go a lot further than that on social media.
 

Topher

Gold Member
It just isn't that hard to understand, tbh.

On one hand you have toxic fanboy-ism on the internet where a ton of energy is spent not on enjoying or sharing game experiences but in a constant game of one-upmanship over the consoles with a lot of that energy spent on hating the "other" at all costs. This is what Spencer is saying he doesn't support, this is the console warring he is talking about.

Then there is the completely separate subject of a corporation advertising their product. Anytime you hear "best value" or really any reason provided for buying any product, that is basically selling the idea that object X is better than object Z because....

You can do one without supporting the other. When one truck brand says their new pickup is the best because of XYZ, that does not equate to them supporting a group of fanboys that go around the internet trashing all other truck brands and their owners. It's a very simple concept.

The toxicity that exists around consoles and even gaming storefronts on PC is obvious for anyone to see. I don't have a problem with it when it is playful and brotherly, but it does go a lot further than that on social media.

I don't think the point I'm making is hard to understand either, but we are not on the same page on this one. That's fine. We don't have to agree.
 

ReBurn

Gold Member
Nah.....Spencer has made these points before. This isn't new and hardly a bridge too far.

“We should focus on this industry that we love and see it continue to grow. And we should protect it from the issues that it does have,” said Spencer, adding that recent conversations around accessibility, inclusivity and addressing toxic, harmful communities have highlighted what truly undermines the industry. “If we’re going to spend energy, let’s go spend it on those things, not ‘my piece of plastic is better than your piece of plastic.’ I don’t think that’s a productive conversation.


I'll leave it at that.
So are you saying that Phil Spencer can't talk about what he and his team are doing that differentiates the Xbox ecosystem from competing platforms because doing so constitutes console warring? Or is he supposed to say thay despite everything they're doing Sony and Nintendo are better? I don't understand the point you're trying to make.
 

Topher

Gold Member
So are you saying that Phil Spencer can't talk about what he and his team are doing that differentiates the Xbox ecosystem from competing platforms because doing so constitutes console warring? Or is he supposed to say thay despite everything they're doing Sony and Nintendo are better? I don't understand the point you're trying to make.

Again, that isn't the point. The point is the hypocrisy of throwing shade and then saying you don't throw shade.
 

Sosokrates

Founder of western console warring.
That's all fine, but promoting the "world's most powerful console" is factually spending energy on the console war. This is really the only problem I have with Spencer. He talks as if he is above such things, but he engages in it so often that is so easy to call him out on his bullshit. Spencer is in competition with Sony and clearly he wants to differentiate Xbox from PlayStation. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. It is what he should do. But he needs to stop pretending he doesn't dirty his hands with console war narratives because that is just bullshit.
Thats like a restaurant having a sign saying "we have the best burgers" and someone coming at them and being like "so you think your better then Gordon ramsay..."
 
Last edited:

ReBurn

Gold Member
Saying that Xbox is doing things the others aren't doing isn't throwing shade as long as what he says is true. And what he said in the quoted Eurogamer article is true. Microsoft is the only place where first party games are released day and date on PC. They aren't putting gamers in the position where they have to choose between buying now on console or maybe getting the game later on PC, plus they're generally supporting the model of buy once and play anywhere so you don't have to buy games twice.

If Sony is doing that the same thing and he's throwing shade then yeah, he's a hypocrite. But that's not what's happening.
 

Topher

Gold Member
Saying that Xbox is doing things the others aren't doing isn't throwing shade as long as what he says is true. And what he said in the quoted Eurogamer article is true. Microsoft is the only place where first party games are released day and date on PC. They aren't putting gamers in the position where they have to choose between buying now on console or maybe getting the game later on PC, plus they're generally supporting the model of buy once and play anywhere so you don't have to buy games twice.

If Sony is doing that the same thing and he's throwing shade then yeah, he's a hypocrite. But that's not what's happening.

Spencer is still engaging in plastic versus plastic while saying plastic versus plastic isn't "productive". If you think otherwise then fine. I'm not arguing the same point with ten different people. Sorry.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom