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PC Builders - Consider Investing in Dedicated Sound

Sakura

Member
Sound cards are definitely better, but you also need some good headphones or speakers, otherwise it is just a waste.
A sound card will probably be way cheaper than a pair of good headphones anyway, so if you are willing to spend hundreds on headphones, I don't know why you wouldn't be willing to spend 1 or 2 hundred on a soundcard.
 
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AGRacing

Member
Maybe I should have not said "dedicated sound" and instead just recommended what I know... The Sound Blaster AE-5 vs my specific motherboard. I can only speak to that. Seems like there's a lot of unqualified "facts" being thrown around suggesting I'm delusional.

But we're getting dangerously close to calling me a liar when we claim (and in many cases with seemingly zero first hand knowledge) there is definitely zero difference.

So I'll clarify my claim below.

Again... This is comparing the
Sound Blaster AE5 Plus. VS the Gigabyte Aorus Pro Wifi Realtek ALC1220. Direct sound on BOTH (set in sound blaster as direct feed... ALC1220 "disabled audio enhancement").
Under those circumstances there IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE. On the HEADPHONES OUTPUT. Not "maybe". Not a little. Not placebo. Not hyperbolic. Massive.

And that's of course the only fact I can offer. Can't speak to the Asus sound cards. Cant speak for other motherboard implementations of the ALC1220.

So anyone claiming to know theres zero difference between any motherboard and any dedicated sound card is probably full of it.
 

AGRacing

Member
Sound cards are definitely better, but you also need some good headphones or speakers, otherwise it is just a waste.
A sound card will probably be way cheaper than a pair of good headphones anyway, so if you are willing to spend hundreds on headphones, I don't know why you wouldn't be willing to spend 1 or 2 hundred on a soundcard.
Yes.

I'd wager there's a higher probability of better sound by pairing $150 headphones and a $150 Sound Blaster than just buying $300 headphones.
 

Knightime_X

Member
Most hated post of this topic incoming !!!
pc builders - don't do that. It's a waste of money. There is absolutely 0 difference nowadays. I compared before I removed all that shit.
I've used onboard, used fiio e10k usb dac and you know what? Now I don't use anything. Besides - on-board cards don't suck for 15 years already.
Digital audio through hdmi goes directly from gpu to my lg c1 tv and it's speakers are pretty good for a tv in right mode. No setup, nothing needed.
Headphones? Never again audiophille bs, usb dac issues, crackling or cables. Sony pulse 3d usb wireless dongle is the sound card. Sounds fantastic, no hiss whatsoever, no delay, no cables. Turn on and go.

Ignorance is bliss. And I am happy that I've managed to escape pc audio hole. On-board disables in uefi, no usb crap dacs. Nothing. no problems.
Sound cards are something I absolutely do not miss from the 90s
Once you become obsessed with how something sounds you end up cursed, never satisfied until you spend mounds of cash on something most people find trivial.
Sad part? The curse doesn't end here, either.

Ignorance is truly a blessing.
 

Reallink

Member
Maybe I should have not said "dedicated sound" and instead just recommended what I know... The Sound Blaster AE-5 vs my specific motherboard. I can only speak to that. Seems like there's a lot of unqualified "facts" being thrown around suggesting I'm delusional.

But we're getting dangerously close to calling me a liar when we claim (and in many cases with seemingly zero first hand knowledge) there is definitely zero difference.

So I'll clarify my claim below.

Again... This is comparing the
Sound Blaster AE5 Plus. VS the Gigabyte Aorus Pro Wifi Realtek ALC1220. Direct sound on BOTH (set in sound blaster as direct feed... ALC1220 "disabled audio enhancement").
Under those circumstances there IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE. On the HEADPHONES OUTPUT. Not "maybe". Not a little. Not placebo. Not hyperbolic. Massive.

And that's of course the only fact I can offer. Can't speak to the Asus sound cards. Cant speak for other motherboard implementations of the ALC1220.

So anyone claiming to know theres zero difference between any motherboard and any dedicated sound card is probably full of it.

While there's a slight possibility your particular mobo's audio is in fact poorly designed, it's much more likely the swap out reset some kind of buried audio setting you're unaware of, the soundcard has some equalization curve or DSP mode baked (which doesn't require a soundcard to do), or it's just outright bias and placebo. Human aural memory is dogshit and doesn't even qualify as short term. Even extensive foreknowledge of how easily it's perverted doesn't change the outcome, the mind is a helluva drug. Anything below double blind exactly volume matched comparisons have less value than the toilet paper you wipe your ass with. There is so much blatantly unabashed snake oil in audio that takes advantage of this fact, I'm not sure how or why governments haven't stepped in with theft by deception or false advertising cases. Probably because it's so niche it's never made it on anyone that matter's radar.
 
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Fredrik

Member
Hi fellow music producer. What genre you producing?

BTW, I recommend the Apollo Twin!
Instrumental metal 👌

”Music producer” sounds way too serious though, it’s really just another hobby for me, therapy in many cases, love playing the guitar and getting lost in that creative bubble.
Started fiddling with Noise Tracker and samplers on the Amiga 500, then went to Tascam cassette recorders and then digital portas and eventually PC.

I had a completely computer free setup for many years. Used a Tascam DP24 porta studio for recording, a Peavey Ultra Plus tube amp lined into a Two Notes Torpedo Live to get some punch from the tubes and speaker emulation, and an effect processor for reverb and Boss drum machine etc. Was just a matter of hitting rec and play, it was refreshing.

Still in the early phase of trying to learn how to use Cubase. It’s easier to build music for sure but it’s easy to get stuck fiddling with plugins, I’m not quite a fan yet tbh.
 

hinch7

Member
Integrated mobo soundcards indeed suck, and have always sucked.
USB DAC + whatever real audio equipement you have (headphones, Hifi/HC amplifier or amplified speakers...) is generally the way to go.
This. I've been down the rabbit hole with amp/dacs/soundcards on portable and PC and the best investment for audio will always be the output device. Whether headphone or speakers.

With that said for people who want good audio, and want something to set and forget. Set aside $200-210 for some entry level Schiit Audio/JDS Atom dac amp stack, or a Topping DX3 Pro+/Fiio K7. And those will last you so long as it doesn't die on you. That or just grab a cheap USB-C dongle from Apple and match with low power (32ohm) headphones - something like a Philips Fidelio X2. Going further, look into getting some better headphones like Senheisser's 560's, 600, 650 (or Massdrop x Senheissers), Beyerdynamics or HifiMan Sundara's plus a good dac/amp combi.
 
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kurisu_1974

is on perm warning for being a low level troll
I've always kept using soundcards, always sounded better than the on-board sound and I often need ASIO drivers (for making music) which even SoundBlasters provide.

This is the one I'm using now, pretty cheap and great results

R.fc0e5f734b86c8d3298405d0ed121f8c
 

kurisu_1974

is on perm warning for being a low level troll
Yup, totally different quality than motherboards. Had the basic Schiit stack for so long, but..

Bought a Schiit Jotunheim 2 + Bifrost 2 dac/amp, black finish, to drive my Focal clear headphones. It’s not just for gaming, but listening to music on that setup is sublime

Happy Love It GIF by The Drew Barrymore Show


Also, buy the Dolby Atmos license on MS store. When a game supports it, it’s worth it.

I didn't know they stacked shiit that high.


(sorry it was stronger than my common sense)
 

PsyEd

Member
I use my gfx card(4080's) HDMI to push dolby atmos...does the job really well. No need here.
 

nemiroff

Gold Member
How about some actual tests. I mean, I use a USB DAC as my daily driver for my headphones. But it would be nice to see some tangible facts.

Edit: Look at this video f.ex. where the guy says "internal soundcards are horrible, don't use them"... (he says USB sound cards or optical is the only good way) so..

 
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lukilladog

Member
How about some actual tests. I mean, I use a USB DAC as my daily driver for my headphones. But it would be nice to see some tangible facts.

Edit: Look at this video f.ex. where the guy says "internal soundcards are horrible, don't use them"... (he says USB sound cards or optical is the only good way) so..



He mentions that you will notice noise when pluging your headphones directly into your motherboard after bumping the volume up. I don't notice any audible noise or distortion using my Senn HD directly plugged into the gigabyte h610m and Asus b660m (latest Alder Lake motherboards) from 0 to 100% volume, I guess that is fixed ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Ps.- Also another thing that used to give problems to onboard audio was the analog Line In, not a problem now (at least on these intel's anyway). I plug in my cellphone all the time to watch stuff by the side. It's pretty cool to play racing games and watch the F1 classic races I have on my PC at the same time (using the VLC player on the phone, setting the video file folder as shared on the PC, and the phone will pull it via Wifi).
 

Demigod Mac

Member
If the connector to the audio equipment is digital (TOSLINK, HDMI) - then does it matter at all what comes before it in terms of noise, signal clarity and sound quality?
I'd assume since all the information is digital up until that point, it shouldn't make any difference... that all the arguments flying back and forth are only applicable to analog connectors.

e.g.
[Motherboard sound output via TOSLINK or HDMI] vs [SoundCard, Video Card or external USB DAC that also connects to the audio equipment via TOSLINK or HDMI]
 
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Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
If the connector to the audio equipment is digital (TOSLINK, HDMI) - then does it matter at all what comes before it in terms of noise, signal clarity and sound quality?
I'd assume since all the information is digital up until that point, it shouldn't make any difference... that all the arguments flying back and forth are only applicable to analog connectors.

e.g.
[Motherboard sound output via TOSLINK or HDMI] vs [SoundCard, Video Card or external USB DAC that also connects to the audio equipment via TOSLINK or HDMI]
Was gonna ask the same question.
 
Its not that discrete sound isn't better, it is, rather that on board audio is now so good that 95% of users can't tell the difference to a degree that can justify spending extra on it, without also hooking it up to a decent sound system.
Audiophiles are a minority. Just as most gamers aren't counting pixels.
 

jshackles

Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
I've got a lot of hearing damage (probably from too many concerts when I was a young lad, also: I'm old). I used to be all about the dedicated sound card in all my PC builds. Nowadays, I just literally can't distinguish between dedicated and onboard sound.

Getting old sucks.
 

AGRacing

Member
Do sound cards come with a connector for hooking up the front panel headphone/mic sockets?
Yes. However in the case of the AE 5 there were also dedicated headphone and microphone jacks around back. I used those.


Was gonna ask the same question.
So if you're outputting sound via HDMI or USB headphones you will not see the benefits I'm describing. Only sound being output by the 3.5mm jacks are being processed and output with the sound card.

This is why I have to laugh at people saying they'll buy 300 dollar wireless headphones but not believe the soundcard can make a difference. Expensive wireless headphones use a quality DAC. The soundcard here does that job for wired headphones.. and on top of that uses a discreet amp for each channel. L & R.
 
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My headphones and earbuds aren't high-end. HD598-ish and $100 earbuds that I don't recall the name of, it was random Chinese but got good reviews (which could have been fake but I rather like them for the price).

Anyway, I have a Soundblaster X7 (USB), it was mostly purchased so I could grab the optical out from my Xbox alongside the PC audio via USB, and mix it together so that I could play games on Xbox but have party chat running on PC and mix them together (so I could use my Yeti mic and whatnot in party chat).

Of course Series X ditched the optical port and ruined the setup. I still use it for PC gaming. Quick test with some music doesn't really yield a noticeable difference. I thought I heard something in the X7 test after the mobo test... but when I went back to the mobo and consciously listened for it, sure enough it was there and just as clear.

Mobo is MSI MEG Unify X570, I think it had some bullet points about how wonderful the onboard audio hardware is.

90% of what goes through my speakers (decade old logitech 2.1 system, Z95 or something like that) is YouTube, or .mkv downloads running through PotPlayer with very aggressive audio normalization running, so super hi-fi just isn't a priority.

It all sounds better than music coming out of my Amazon Echo. And the Amazon Echo is "good enough" for my music purposes (convenience of voice commands to skip tracks and also not having to do anything special to keep my music out of game footage I clip outweighs the superior sound I'd get by playing it on my PC).
 

Puscifer

Member
Most hated post of this topic incoming !!!
pc builders - don't do that. It's a waste of money. There is absolutely 0 difference nowadays. I compared before I removed all that shit.
I've used onboard, used fiio e10k usb dac and you know what? Now I don't use anything. Besides - on-board cards don't suck for 15 years already.
Digital audio through hdmi goes directly from gpu to my lg c1 tv and it's speakers are pretty good for a tv in right mode. No setup, nothing needed.
Headphones? Never again audiophille bs, usb dac issues, crackling or cables. Sony pulse 3d usb wireless dongle is the sound card. Sounds fantastic, no hiss whatsoever, no delay, no cables. Turn on and go.

Ignorance is bliss. And I am happy that I've managed to escape pc audio hole. On-board disables in uefi, no usb crap dacs. Nothing. no problems.
Sound cards are something I absolutely do not miss from the 90s

Yeah I can confirm, I thought my dedicated desktop amp really saved my headphones with 80hm till I realized that both the amps and my onboard needed a +1 gaintoggled to be effective. It's a scam, don't do it unless you're driving professional equipment that makes you money.
 
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Brigandier

Member
https://www.smsl-audio.com/portal/product/detail/id/799.html

Unbelievable value for a DAC/AMP of that spec, plug and play on PC or PS5.

Plug some Beyerdynamic 900 pros or a AKG K712 or if on sale HiFiman Sundaras into that DAC and even Rofif will be able to tell the difference.

If you're budget is stretched then a Fiio KA3 usb dac dongle with a pair of Philips Fidelio X2HR is a great entry level investment that will still delight.

I listen to Tidal a lot and game on my PC and I wouldn't dream of using any other sound set up anymore.
 

Brigandier

Member
Turns out technology, especially audio, advances with time. To the point an apple usb-c dongle does the same job as full blown dedicated desk amps.

I can confirm in some ways I prefer the dongle to my JDS Labs Atom lol.

USB dongles have come a long way and are great, I love my Fiio KA3 but usb dongles won't drive power hungry headphones like Sundaras etc so need to be wary of that but for earphones and "gaming headsets" and any low impedance headphones then USB dongles are superb these days outside of the disgusting overpriced outdated dragonfly's
 
If the connector to the audio equipment is digital (TOSLINK, HDMI) - then does it matter at all what comes before it in terms of noise, signal clarity and sound quality?
I'd assume since all the information is digital up until that point, it shouldn't make any difference... that all the arguments flying back and forth are only applicable to analog connectors.

e.g.
[Motherboard sound output via TOSLINK or HDMI] vs [SoundCard, Video Card or external USB DAC that also connects to the audio equipment via TOSLINK or HDMI]
yeah a digital file is the same, no matter where it's stored. the quality doesnt change.
however, the device holding the digital file may add noise to the overall system, and this noise can make its way to the speakers.
additionally, cables tend to act as antennas (depending on what theyre made of, and how theyre made), which pick up noise, which makes it to your speakers (optical doesnt pick up noise, which is why people like it).
that said, in practice, it usually doesnt make a ton of difference... unless youre really picky and/or your system's really good.

but to be more comprehensive:
there's the issue of processing the digital signal.
all digital signals must be converted to analog in order to be played on speakers (which is why you always see a DAC... the Digital to Analog Converter).
Not all DACs perform the same, so the device's DAC will affect the sound quality.

then there's the issue of which device's DAC is doing the Digital-to-Analog Conversion.
the device storing the digital file may process the file, then send it to the next piece of audio equipment.
or the device storing the digital file may simply send over the 1s and 0s untouched (called "passthrough" or "bitstream"), which ignores the first device's DAC, and allows the next audio device's DAC to do the processing.
basically if your set up has multiple DACs, it's best to know which device has the best DAC.

so it all kind of matters.
 
that article isnt saying what you think it is, ha.

but... audio tech is definitely advancing.
class D amplification used to be absolute trash (and still sucks most of the time), but some companies have recently made massive improvements with it.
might have the potential to legit take the crown from class AB.
 

supernova8

Banned
Bit of a noob question but:

If I'm just hooking up my cheap wireless earphones via a cheap bluetooth dongle, I don't need to bother with a soundcard or USB dac, right? Personally I'm not going back to wired anything.
 
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I got a Cyrus Soundkey USB DAC a couple years ago and it sounds significantly better than on-board audio, and better than whatever is integrated in these WH-1000XM3 headphones for BT audio. But it's also not better enough that I bother taking the Soundkey and cables with me for listening on the bus or w/e.

I remember when games had settings to use proprietary sound card features and things like that... nowadays I'd be a little nervous about putting extra pci cards underneath my graphics card because that fat fuck needs all the airflow it can get lol
 

Kumomeme

Member
I think I know exactly who you are talking about LMAO.
just keep an eye when another audio related thread gonna come out later. he gonna popup, complaining and attacking people left and right like someone with deep grudge just because their audio preferences and ear is not same as him.
 
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Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Turns out technology, especially audio, advances with time. To the point an apple usb-c dongle does the same job as full blown dedicated desk amps.

I can confirm in some ways I prefer the dongle to my JDS Labs Atom lol.

that article isnt saying what you think it is, ha.

ELI5.

Would the Apple dongle be an upgrade in the event I plug my Headphones directly into shitty on-board audio?
My motherboard has a USB-C port on the back.
 

BlackTron

Member
I still use an external USB sound blaster that is like 25 years old. Not only is it superior but it instantly fixes any interference/buzzing issues that I seem to have a penchant for getting.

Still have sound blaster PCI cards and even driver CDs from antiquity though...simply too good to throw away. May actually get used again one day.
 

A.Romero

Member
I still use an external USB sound blaster that is like 25 years old. Not only is it superior but it instantly fixes any interference/buzzing issues that I seem to have a penchant for getting.

Still have sound blaster PCI cards and even driver CDs from antiquity though...simply too good to throw away. May actually get used again one day.

Same here!

I'd love to keep using it (Audigy 2 ZS) but it annoys me that it's too hard to also use the front panel because it uses a serial cable. Don't want to mess up the look and thermals of my build.

I ended up using integrated audio for when I'm sitting at the desk, an external Yamaha mixer (USB) to record and HDMI to a receiver when playing on the couch.
 

Puscifer

Member
ELI5.

Would the Apple dongle be an upgrade in the event I plug my Headphones directly into shitty on-board audio?
My motherboard has a USB-C port on the back.
It basically has a DAC on it's chip since it processes audio, I'm not saying it's the greatest thing on earth but honestly I have no real faults about it and feel like you should give it a try vs buying an entire amp first and I'm saying that as someone with a dedicated amp on his desktop.
 

Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Now, buy a BeyerDynamic DT770 Pro studio headset and thank me for the rest of your life.

mkoMw50.png

DT 770 PRO
Can attest to this.
I have the 80Ω version that I bought loike 10 years ago......still the best overall headsets ive ever used.
They handle pretty much anything, but when i moved from Australia I had to sell a bunch of my equipment so I dont have an amp no more.
These puppies dont get as much use as they used to so imma have to figure something out sooner rather than later.
nd feel like you should give it a try vs buying an entire amp first and I'm saying that as someone with a dedicated amp on his desktop.
For the price im all but willing to make the plunge.
Just shocking to me because from that thread it sounds like an absolutely perfect little device and im surprised ive never heard about these dongles being a thing.

So as long as Windows actually detects the fucker as a USB audio device I should be good to go, even with my 80Ω DT770s?
 

Zimmy68

Member
I'm very happy with my onboard sound. I used to buy every new SoundBlaster product but those days are over.
It is not only the cost, it is the unnecessary space taken.
 

DRB

Neo Member
I tried comparing onboard with a shiit stack (magni & modi), and after going back and forth I'm positive that I hear zero difference with the headphones I use (HD 6XX, DT 1770 PRO). I'm only using the magni amp because of the convenience ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 

Puscifer

Member
Can attest to this.
I have the 80Ω version that I bought loike 10 years ago......still the best overall headsets ive ever used.
They handle pretty much anything, but when i moved from Australia I had to sell a bunch of my equipment so I dont have an amp no more.
These puppies dont get as much use as they used to so imma have to figure something out sooner rather than later.

For the price im all but willing to make the plunge.
Just shocking to me because from that thread it sounds like an absolutely perfect little device and im surprised ive never heard about these dongles being a thing.

So as long as Windows actually detects the fucker as a USB audio device I should be good to go, even with my 80Ω DT770s?
Funny, those are the headphones I have 😆

Yeah you'll be fine
 
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