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[Kenpachii]

It's true tho, its basically a guy fantasy movie series.

A guy rescuing a princess, going on a epic adventure beats the big evil guy and saves the universe and princess all while being a cool fighter.

They tried to do it with that chick and basically put her in a male fantasy role because america has this dumb ass idea that woman and men all like the same shit because they are "the same". well guess what, a guy cant project himself in a girl no matter how hard you try, and a girl can't project herself in a guy. put a cute baby or a badass gun next towards each other and 99% of the girls will floke towards the baby and men won't even see the the baby.

Why is the mandalorian a good hit with chicks? yoda the cute baby with daddy protecting that little kid.

Girls are different then guys, no matter what holywood tries to push, its the simple the reality and as long as disney keeps ignoring it the less interesting they will become over the years.

Look i walked my dog every single night for 3 miles around a huge block for years and here in the netherlands people have there windows open so u can see in there house what they are doing. And what do you see? every single time? girls infront the television watching song shows or drama shows where billy betrayed her and she's sad. every single fucking time everywhere. And what are the guys watching a movie with explosions and destruction.

What is star wars?

there you go.

 

[oagboghi2]

It's true tho, its basically a guy fantasy movie series.

A guy rescuing a princess, going on a epic adventure beats the big evil guy and saves the universe and princess all while being a cool fighter.

They tried to do it with that chick and basically put her in a male fantasy role because america has this dumb ass idea that woman and men all like the same shit because they are "the same". well guess what, a guy cant project himself in a girl no matter how hard you try, and a girl can't project herself in a guy. put a cute baby or a badass gun next towards each other and 99% of the girls will floke towards the baby and men won't even see the the baby.

Why is the mandalorian a good hit with chicks? yoda the cute baby with daddy protecting that little kid.

Girls are different then guys, no matter what holywood tries to push, its the simple the reality and as long as disney keeps ignoring it the less interesting they will become over the years.

Look i walked my dog every single night for 3 miles around a huge block for years and here in the netherlands people have there windows open so u can see in there house what they are doing. And what do you see? every single time? girls infront the television watching song shows or drama shows where billy betrayed her and she's sad. every single fucking time everywhere. And what are the guys watching a movie with explosions and destruction.

What is star wars?

there you go.

There is nothing magical about the story in Star Wars that make it impossible for a female to write a good adventure story, or a female to direct something that is compelling film in this universe.

After multiple garbage movies, directed and written by men, I'm suprised anyone would say something so dumb.

Especially after the Mandolatian, the show everyone is constantly praising for being more star wars than anything in the sequel trilogy, had a ton of female directors. Should we condemn and dismiss those projects.

I have my doubts about Jenkins, like everyone else, but this is stupid.

 

[Kreen101]

This is one of the most pathetic post I’ve read in a while. Holy shit

Your response would be more intellectually stimulating to me, in the context of our debate of ideas, had you actually explained why. Maybe next time!

 

[Porcile]

5/5 The Guardian.

 

[Kreen101]

There is nothing magical about the story in Star Wars that make it impossible for a female to write a good adventure story, or a female to direct something that is compelling film in this universe.

After multiple garbage movies, directed and written by men, I'm suprised anyone would say something so dumb.

Especially after the Mandolatian, the show everyone is constantly praising for being more star wars than anything in the sequel trilogy, had a ton of female directors. Should we condemn and dismiss those projects.

I have my doubts about Jenkins, like everyone else, but this is stupid.

It's not about who the director is, it's about the direction that has been decided upon by Disney and the producers, which the directors are tasked with executing. It's not that a woman director couldn't direct freakin Rambo 4 -- although she would have to be an unusual female director to have the right sensitivity/instincts to be able to do it -- , it's that neither she nor a male director could do it if they received a directive to make the movie more interesting to female audiences.

 

[INC]

Red Wing 5 reporting in

 

[oagboghi2]

It's not about who the director is, it's about the direction that has been decided upon by Disney and the producers, which the directors are tasked with executing. It's not that a woman director couldn't direct freakin Rambo 4 -- although she would have to be an unusual female director to have the right sensitivity/instincts to be able to do it -- , it's that neither she nor a male director would do it if they received a directive to make the movie more interesting to female audiences.

The direction of star wars is what? Despite having a female lead, what is uniquely "female" about the sequel trilogy. It's the same old shit, explosions, light saber duels, a bunch of jedi talk and spaceships going "pew pew".

What is wrong with the "male minds" of Rian Johnson, J.J. Abrams, Ron Howard and Gareth Evans?

Or is it that it just boils down to Kennedy, in which case, explain Mandolorian?

 

[Batiman]

Your response would be more intellectually stimulating to me, in the context of our debate of ideas, had you actually explained why. Maybe next time!

Can I ask what “male elements” SW downplays?

 

[Evangelion Unit-01]

Star Wars was always male: it came from male minds, dealt with male fantasies, was inspired by serials made for boys, and had for its audience mostly guys. It doesn't mean there were no exceptions, or that women couldn't like SW, but what they enjoyed was a male product, in the same way some guys like books or movies made with a female audience in mind. Nothing wrong or uncommon about any of this, it was always thus.

When you take a male product like SW and change it in a way that downplays its male elements, or makes it more interesting to a female audience, you change it. You don't necessarily make it worse per say, especially depending on your point of view. But you change its essence.

Star Wars appeals to men more than women yes, the overwhelming majority of sci-fi and action fans are men. There isn't anything wrong with that. The people working on Star Wars media should be people who understand why fans love it and I would imagine that the overwhelming majority of those people would be men. You are correct in saying that Star Wars shouldn't change its identity to court more female viewers. A franchise should stay true to itself and not compromise its tone to chase after a different market.

All of that differs strongly from your initial statement which was: "Keep women off Star Wars. It's not complicated." As others have pointed out, women, like Lucas' wife were involved in the creation of the universe that we enjoy. Moreover Rian Johnson and JJ Abrams, both men, are ultimately the ones who created such a poor trilogy of movies. I want people who understand Star Wars and love the series to be the ones leading it forward, men or women, choose those who can produce a good Star Wars story and let them lead. Given that Star Wars has vastly more male fans than female I imagine that the majority of those who meet that qualification of being able to tell a good Star Wars story would be men. Your statement differs wildly from the reality that women have always been involved in Star Wars and the policy of hiring good Star Wars writers regardless of gender. Your words suggest that no woman should be allowed to create Star Wars content. I do not believe that my argument is with you as so much as it is with your words. I think you're a reasonable person who wants whats best for Star Wars. What you likely mean to say is, "Keep people who wish to contort and compromise the integrity of Star Wars in a futile attempt to gain more female viewership away from the the franchise". That's a very different statement from what you initially wrote. Maybe it seems like I am being pedantic but I really believe that words matter and statements like your first one do not accurately convey the real problem with Star Wars but rather provide ammo to those who are actively damaging the series.

Then again, not sure how much of this matters since OP was making a joke.

 

[Lupingosei]

Then again, not sure how much of this matters since OP was making a joke.

Female empowerment is never a joke. How dare you, how dare you.

And all spaces must be welcoming for everyone:

That is why Hallmark movies will feature more action scenes in the future to be more welcoming to the male audience.

Also, all action movies will be rated PG to be more welcoming for the younger audience

And all porn movies will feature prayers to be more welcoming for the Christian audience. (of course the prayer oh yes! oh yes! oh god! already counts)

 

[TrainedRage]

How do these people get their hands on franchises like this? And what is a good reason why? I'm done with it. Im done paying to watch trash with its only redeeming value based on a license.

 

[Kreen101]

What is wrong with the "male minds" of Rian Johnson, J.J. Abrams, Ron Howard and Gareth Evans?

Let's just say none of those guys are Sam Peckinpah, John Huston or Don Siegel...

But even if they were, a decision was made by Disney to make Star Wars more appealing to girls, women and minorities. And that changed the product, especially since they were very, very unsubtle about it.

Listen, I love doom metal. Ever been to a doom metal concert? It's about 90% male, and 95% white. Let's say some producer said, "let's make doom metal more appealing to women and black kids by adding acoustic interludes, relatable, emotional lyrics and hip-hop sounds". Maybe that would work in making doom metal more interesting to those demographics. Some might argue it would make the music better. But it would no longer be doom metal as previously understood, and it would drive off a lot of former doom metal fans.

Granted, the changes with the new Star Wars are not as drastic as that, and my profound dislike of those new movies has much more to do with a lack of originality and creativity, and the general "made-by-committee-with-an-eye-to-market-research" philosophy that pervades every aspect of those new films. But the pandering to the new desired demographics is part of that.

 

[sol_bad]

Let's just say none of those guys are Sam Peckinpah, John Huston or Don Siegel...

But even if they were, a decision was made by Disney to make Star Wars more appealing to girls, women and minorities. And that changed the product, especially since they were very, very unsubtle about it.

Listen, I love doom metal. Ever been to a doom metal concert? It's about 90% male, and 95% white. Let's say some producer said, "let's make doom metal more appealing to women and black kids by adding acoustic interludes, relatable, emotional lyrics and hip-hop sounds". Maybe that would work in making doom metal more interesting to those demographics. Some might argue it would make the music better. But it would no longer be doom metal as previously understood, and it would drive off a lot of former doom metal fans.

Granted, the changes with the new Star Wars are not as drastic as that, and my profound dislike of those new movies has much more to do with a lack of originality and creativity, and the general "made-by-committee-with-an-eye-to-market-research" philosophy that pervades every aspect of those new films. But the pandering to the new desired demographics is part of that.

How do you tell when a movie is "made by committee" and made by a passionate individual?

 

[Kreen101]

Can I ask what “male elements” SW downplays?

The new, Disney Star Wars? It downplays the male fantasy elements of being a guy and wanting to leave your responsibilities behind, get to play with all kinds of cool technology, shoot at bad guys, save and kiss the girl and explode a whole lot of stuff with bad guys inside it. And also of not being beaten over the head with "female empowering" and even "male-bashing" messaging, which tends to kill off the fun of male fantasies reeeeeal quick.

Basically imagine the movie Predator with an anti-violence message. Not as fun, eh?

 

[Kreen101]

How do you tell when a movie is "made by committee" and made by a passionate individual?

By watching what's on the screen and assessing the "creative" decisions made every step of the way in the writing and filming of the picture.

I'd rather watch the incompetently written and awkwardly conceived and filmed "Phantom Menace" than any of the Disney SW films, because at least, for better or for worse, it's one man going with his own ideas, naysayers be damned.

 

[oagboghi2]

Let's just say none of those guys are Sam Peckinpah, John Huston or Don Siegel...

But even if they were, a decision was made by Disney to make Star Wars more appealing to girls, women and minorities. And that changed the product, especially since they were very, very unsubtle about it.

Listen, I love doom metal. Ever been to a doom metal concert? It's about 90% male, and 95% white. Let's say some producer said, "let's make doom metal more appealing to women and black kids by adding acoustic interludes, relatable, emotional lyrics and hip-hop sounds". Maybe that would work in making doom metal more interesting to those demographics. Some might argue it would make the music better. But it would no longer be doom metal as previously understood, and it would drive off a lot of former doom metal fans.

Granted, the changes with the new Star Wars are not as drastic as that, and my profound dislike of those new movies has much more to do with a lack of originality and creativity, and the general "made-by-committee-with-an-eye-to-market-research" philosophy that pervades every aspect of those new films. But the pandering to the new desired demographics is part of that.

Okay so what is the "acoustic interludes, relatable, emotional lyrics and hip-hop sounds" equivalent of the sequel trilogy? Rey being a woman or Finn being black? Would you have enjoyed these movies if Rey was a dude and Finn was a white man?

I would argue these movies are terrible for far more reasons than a woman and a black guy being in the starting roles.

Also, you did get that movie in Solo, and no one gave a shit

 

[Stouffers]

Chance of nudity?

like an xwing “car wash” scene?

 

[Batiman]

The new, Disney Star Wars? It downplays the male fantasy elements of being a guy and wanting to leave your responsibilities behind, get to play with all kinds of cool technology, shoot at bad guys, save and kiss the girl and explode a whole lot of stuff with bad guys inside it. And also of not being beaten over the head with "female empowering" and even "male-bashing" messaging, which tends to kill off the fun of male fantasies reeeeeal quick.

Basically imagine the movie Predator with an anti-violence message. Not as fun, eh?

So your saying the main protagonist has to me a male pretty much. Everything you said could apply to every other movie and has nothing to do with what sex the characters are. You’re just using what you think girls should be into as a complaint You just seem to need male protag in your movies for some reason.

 

[e&e]

That trailer that shows the director talking about being a "daughter of a fighter pilot" is fucking lol. How about just be a fighter pilot. Could give fuck less what you're daddy did. Jeez.

Sarcasm or salt? I can’t tell!

 

[oagboghi2]

By watching what's on the screen and assessing the "creative" decisions made every step of the way in the writing and filming of the picture.

I'd rather watch the incompetently written and awkwardly conceived and filmed "Phantom Menace" than any of the Disney SW films, because at least, for better or for worse, it's one man going with his own ideas, naysayers be damned.

The Last Jedi, written and directed solely by Rian Johnson.

 

[BaneIsPain]

Oh boy, similar scene will come up.

 

[Stiflers Mom]

I liked the Mandalorian episodes by Dallas Bryce Howard and that Deborah Chow.
They were even among the best of that series so far.

I guess what K Kreen101 says is somewhat true, in that the final product is some boy's fantasy, and should stay like that.
But on the production side, I don't see that gender has any influence on that if the outcome is good.

 

[Lady Bird]

I'd rather watch the incompetently written and awkwardly conceived and filmed "Phantom Menace" than any of the Disney SW films, because at least, for better or for worse, it's one man going with his own ideas, naysayers be damned.

But that's exactly what The Last Jedi is, though. A single man going with his own ideas and style, for better or for worse.

 

[GreyHorace]

But that's exactly what The Last Jedi is, though. A single man going with his own ideas and style, for better or for worse.

Actually, it's a single man enforcing his ideas on another's. Rian Johnson didn't create Star Wars and his creative decisions were not compatible with the world that George Lucas created.

And man a lot of you are giving K Kreen101 hell for stating the truth, like it or not. Star Wars at it's core is a space opera much like Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon. It's a genre whose main audience has always been men and young boys. Disney are deluding themselves in thinking that building up the female elements will somehow change the demographics. Give me a break. The crowds gathered outside a theater to watch a Star Wars movie are overwhelmingly male. As are those who buy the fucking toys. If women were buying the toys, how come there's a ton of unsold Rose Tico are *blech* Admiral Holdo figures?

But who says female characters have no place in Star Wars? Are we going to forget that Princess Leia has been there since the beginning and was a great example of a strong woman who fought alongside the men? Hell, The Mandalorian gave us numerous badass women like Cara Dune, Ahsoka Tano, Fennec Shand and Bo Katan. But why no complaints from men? Well maybe because men like badass women so long as they're well developed and not written as some attack on men.

But back on topic, I don't mind if Patty Jenkins is directing Rogue Squadron. And if the main character is female, so be it. Just quit with the virtue signaling and just give us a good time in the cinema.

 

[Lady Bird]

And man a lot of you are giving K Kreen101 hell for stating the truth, like it or not. Star Wars at it's core is a space opera much like Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon. It's a genre whose main audience has always been men and young boys. Disney are deluding themselves in thinking that building up the female elements will somehow change the demographics. Give me a break. The crowds gathered outside a theater to watch a Star Wars movie are overwhelmingly male. As are those who buy the fucking toys. If women were buying the toys, how come there's a ton of unsold Rose Tico are *blech* Admiral Holdo figures?

But who says female characters have no place in Star Wars? Are we going to forget that Princess Leia has been there since the beginning and was a great example of a strong woman who fought alongside the men? Hell, The Mandalorian gave us numerous badass women like Cara Dune, Ahsoka Tano, Fennec Shand and Bo Katan. But why no complaints from men? Well maybe because men like badass women so long as they're well developed and not written as some attack on men.

But back on topic, I don't mind if Patty Jenkins is directing Rogue Squadron. And if the main character is female, so be it. Just quit with the virtue signaling and just give us a good time in the cinema.

You don't even need "strong, badass women" to attract a female audience. Isn't being "badass" mostly a manly trait, anyways? Not to say that women can't or shouldn't be badass, but that it generally fulfills a niche relatively to badass guys, which is a very popular male fantasy. I'd even go as far as say that badass men attract a bigger female audience than badass women, as long as they have some other traits that make them very appealing to the opposite sex (mystery, charm, etc).

Mandalorian is possibly the Star Wars show that is the most attractive to a female audience, and not because it has badass women in it, but because it has a cute child doing cute things and a protagonist that is learning how to be a father. That is the number 1 reason why my female friend became addicted to it.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Well, that's the last time we'll hear from OP. Guy no doubt has a bunch of offers from Hollywood to pen scripts for any billion dollar franchise he wants.

Don't let your life pass you by OP.

 

[Stiflers Mom]

I have never met a woman who watched a movie because a woman did men things in it.
I don't even understand where that completely dumb idea comes from.

 

[Thaedolus]

Rian Johnson is a dude. Fuck off

Allegedly

 

[Kenpachii]

There is nothing magical about the story in Star Wars that make it impossible for a female to write a good adventure story, or a female to direct something that is compelling film in this universe.

After multiple garbage movies, directed and written by men, I'm suprised anyone would say something so dumb.

Especially after the Mandolatian, the show everyone is constantly praising for being more star wars than anything in the sequel trilogy, had a ton of female directors. Should we condemn and dismiss those projects.

I have my doubts about Jenkins, like everyone else, but this is stupid.

That's not what i am saying. That's what u are hearing.

This is what i am saying, just watch the 30 seconds. "we don't care about that, we just care about the child"



Woman and males are different ( by far the majority of them ) and everybody that interacted with the opposite gender at one point would have realized this instantly. Hollywoods idea of woman and men are the same is beyond disturbing delusional.

 

[LaughingStock]

So...do i clap at each strong woman moment or wait until the end of the movie?

Do jazz hands instead you fucking nazi.

 

[NeoGiffer]

 

[Kreen101]

Okay so what is the "acoustic interludes, relatable, emotional lyrics and hip-hop sounds" equivalent of the sequel trilogy? Rey being a woman or Finn being black? Would you have enjoyed these movies if Rey was a dude and Finn was a white man?

It's complicated. Rey is a woman, but at the same time, she's written as a male character, because it's obvious -- precisely because of the agenda Disney has imposed -- that the writers went out of their way to write her WITHOUT any trait that are conventionally associated with women, because they were probably afraid people would go "oh OF COURSE, because she's a girl, she needs to be rescued", or "oh OF COURSE, because she's a girl, she can't do everything herself", or "she has maternal feelings", or "she wants a boyfriend", or anything of the sort.

So we ended up with the worst of both worlds. We got a female character where the fact she even was female was basically unsaid and un-used (compare with, say, the Charlize Theron character in Fury Road, where the fact she's a woman is intrinsic to her mission of saving the bad guy's wives and thus informs and enriches her character), so we got a typical, Stallone-esque unbeatable, unflappable machine played by a 5 foot 4 little girl, which ruined the character's appeal for boys and young men who otherwise who have flocked to embrace such an unstoppable killing machine, had it been a guy. I hear that the sales of the Rey action figures bear me out on this.

 

[Nymphae]

The first act is a 20-25 minutes is a flashback of their fights during the attacks on the first and second Death Star. How they did all the work and how Luke, Han and Lando got all the glory.

Please bury this franchise even further. holy shit they're doing Hidden Figures Star Wars Edition

 

[Kreen101]

I liked the Mandalorian episodes by Dallas Bryce Howard and that Deborah Chow.
They were even among the best of that series so far.

Those are TV directors, who are mere executors of the scripts and at the orders of the producers.

As for Ryan Johnson, his script still had to be approved by Disney; do you think it wouldn't have been sent for a heavy rewrite had he written a story with even a hint a male chauvinism or the slightest offence against identity politics? I mean, the last Rambo was blasted for depicting gangs in Mexico as both Mexican and involved in gang-related activities. That's where we are right now in terms of political correctness.

 

[AJUMP23]

I would still pay money to watch this unfortunately.
I can’t wait to see these elite pilots smiling.

 

[Kreen101]

But who says female characters have no place in Star Wars? Are we going to forget that Princess Leia has been there since the beginning and was a great example of a strong woman who fought alongside the men?

Princess Leia was a "princess" (the word itself has become taboo in some circles) and she did need rescuing, which means she would have no place in the new Disney Star Wars. She's a strong female character in the real, plain sense of the words, but she's not a "strong female character" as understood by Disney and the Twitter hordes today. She also kisses Luke right before he's about to leap across the wide chasm in the Death Star. That's a big no-no in the SJW Disney world. It's almost like she's a woman who is grateful to a man for having saved her and expresses it in a sensual, male-pleasing way. That is unacceptable.

 

[cryptoadam]

Excuse me, bigot!?

Ackshuwalllyyyyy,

Haveaseat

The Fn titties though. Holy shit you need the Force to hold those puppies up. Not even Yoda and Darth combined could do it.

 

[LaughingStock]

Star Wars was always male: it came from male minds, dealt with male fantasies, was inspired by serials made for boys, and had for its audience mostly guys. It doesn't mean there were no exceptions, or that women couldn't like SW, but what they enjoyed was a male product, in the same way some guys like books or movies made with a female audience in mind. Nothing wrong or uncommon about any of this, it was always thus.

When you take a male product like SW and change it in a way that downplays its male elements, or makes it more interesting to a female audience, you change it. You don't necessarily make it worse per say, especially depending on your point of view. But you change its essence.

I agree with this. It doesn't mean women can't enjoy star wars or haven't contributed to its success. But star wars is essentially a male thing.

What is happening to most classic franchises is that the people in charge are trying to reach an imaginary audience in detriment to its real main audience. Men.

 

[Kusanagi2086]

Moff Grump ??? ok I know many star wars names are silly but GRUMP ???

 

[Kusanagi2086]

The Fn titties though. Holy shit you need the Force to hold those puppies up. Not even Yoda and Darth combined could do it.

 

[Halo is Back]

Who cares, SW is shit now. This is what happens when a corporation squeezes every last drop of an IP for profit. Fans and legacy of the material be damned.

 

[Unknown Quantity]

My favourite female character in SW is Mara Jade (Legends), then Leia. The Squadron has to have a decent amount as Alien (comparatively) for it to make sense to me as a SW fan. Quarren & Mon Cals I'd like to see. Twi'leks have interesting stories. Correllian women (human & Rodian).

If a decent effort is done I'll watch.

 

[GreyHorace]

Princess Leia was a "princess" (the word itself has become taboo in some circles) and she did need rescuing, which means she would have no place in the new Disney Star Wars. She's a strong female character in the real, plain sense of the words, but she's not a "strong female character" as understood by Disney and the Twitter hordes today. She also kisses Luke right before he's about to leap across the wide chasm in the Death Star. That's a big no-no in the SJW Disney world. It's almost like she's a woman who is grateful to a man for having saved her and expresses it in a sensual, male-pleasing way. That is unacceptable.

It's funny and hypocritical that Disney thinks the word Princess is a dirty word now. They make a shit ton of dough on their Disney Princess merchandise line.

Who cares, SW is shit now. This is what happens when a corporation squeezes every last drop of an IP for profit. Fans and legacy of the material be damned.

As if Lucasfilm didn't squeeze the franchise for every last drop before it was sold to Disney. I seem to recall there was a ton of novels, comics, videogames and other media based on Star Wars that came out after the success of Timothy Zahn's Heir to the Empire trilogy. By comparison, Disney hasn't released as much material. The new comics under Marvel started out strong but have been slowly declining in quality. The new tie-in novels have largely been trash from what I hear. And on the videogame front Disney partnership with EA has yielded two meh multiplayer shooters (Battlefront 1 & 2), one excellent single player Soulslike game (Jedi Fallen Order) and an okay flight-sim game (Squadrons).

Not denying that Disney hasn't botched things on the movie front, but at least we got The Mandalorian on streaming TV.

 

[MilkyJoe]

So is this a joke thread, i can't tell any more.

 

[GeorgPrime]

With prejudiced behaviour of the black woman that would offend everyone if a man did this movie. lol

 

[GymWolf]

Let me guess, it's utter shit isn't?!

 

[GeorgPrime]

Let me guess, it's utter shit isn't?!

Its an all women movie. History can tell you how that worked out before.