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[Draugoth]

Developers who were originally involved in the making of Metroid Prime have criticised this month’s remaster for omitting them from its credits.

Zoid Kirsch, who was a senior gameplay engineer on Metroid Prime and Metroid Prime 2 on the GameCube, tweeted his disappointment that the original staff aren’t listed in the credits of Metroid Prime Remastered, which was released last week.

Rather than listing everyone who worked on the original game, Remastered’s credits simply include a single screen that says: “Based on the work of Metroid Prime original Nintendo GameCube and Wii Version development staff.”

Kirsch wrote:

While many studios did amazing work on the remaster, I’m let down Metroid Prime’s Remaster does not include the full original game credits.

I worked with so many amazing people on the game and everyone’s name should be included in the remaster, not just a single card like this.

He was then backed up by Jack Mathews, who was a technical lead engineer on Metroid Prime 1 and 2, and a principal engineer on Metroid Prime 3.

This is a travesty. Not just for my credit (even though most of my code was probably replaced), but for people whose code and work are largely unchanged, like Mark HH, Steve McCrea, all of the uprezzed art and concepts, the game design. Shameful.

 

[trikster40]

Gotta agree. If you’re doing a remaster and not a remake, you should give credits to the devs.

It’s like working on a museum and you restore a Van Gogh, then tell people you painted it.

 

[John Bilbo]

We should respect the work of those before us

 

[Kilau]

Guess they didn’t get the note that it’s a full remake.

/s

 

[deriks]

Gotta agree. If you’re doing a remaster and not a remake, you should give credits to the devs.

It’s like working on a museum and you restore a Van Gogh, then tell people you painted it.

 

[phaedrus]

 

[Northeastmonk]

They should have had a 2nd credits screen devoted to those people. They put in the years of work crafting the world, gameplay, and etc. Having their hard work summed up as an “et al” is pretty lazy.

 

[SaintALia]

This is an industry wide practice(probably within the arts in general).

Still though, while it does feel bad to not have your name listed in the credits, you did get your name listed in the OG game and can still use it in your CV.

I saw people saying it's to hold over people's heads in case they leave, but I can't fathom how that works, as it's just to display your name, the company can't actually prevent you from using it in their CV or portfolio when seeking jobs. It seems entirely ego based as a hold.

Unless I'm mistaken?

 

[01011001]

this is especially fucked up because almost 100% of the original underlying game logic is still used

 

[Beer Baelly]

Nintendo did them dirty

 

[yurinka]

this is especially fucked up because almost 100% of the original underlying game logic is still used

And same game design, same concept art, same OST etc.

It's 90%+ the original game, with only upgraded visuals and tweaked controls on top.

The original devs should be credited.

 

[Teslerum]

This is an industry wide practice(probably within the arts in general).

Still though, while it does feel bad to not have your name listed in the credits, you did get your name listed in the OG game and can still use it in your CV.

I saw people saying it's to hold over people's heads in case they leave, but I can't fathom how that works, as it's just to display your name, the company can't actually prevent you from using it in their CV or portfolio when seeking jobs. It seems entirely ego based as a hold.

Unless I'm mistaken?

It's not. There are plenty of remaster devs crediting the original team.

 

[crackajack]

Credits of Ubisoft remasters will be fun then. Several Are you still there? messages on PS streaming incoming.

I am working in an industry where work isn't much credited, certainly not to that extend, so I don't quite get why it is important. Your CV shows that you worked at Retro and created that game. That is important for you and your future employers, but being shown to us, the plebs, is utterly pointless beyond a marketability of a game director, head writer and composer name, because no one really cares after them. It's tradition from movies but actually just a waste of time and energy. For the person having to track the names down and especially having us force to watch them until the end.
But yeah, if we do credits, of course it should include all, ALL people involved in the tools you work with, so a ton of Autodesk employees, speedtree, scaleform, quixel etc, ALL people required to make your workstation, monitor, chair etc. ALL people in infrastructure to allow you getting to work or home office, providing electricity ... but i'd rather have just the main people. Which are already not senior lead something something guys. They are important, sure, but no one really cares to remember their names, and even less likely the actual work bees which are equally important but just some Jon, Jessie, Jack Nguyen etc ie people among many many others.

 

[Alexios]

Lol, that guy was comparing the doors with a sharp dolphin image of the original and a compressed youtube snapshot of the remaster saying it's "fucked up" and implying it was the same asset with some error or whatever but we've all seen it's all brand new stuff and the effect in motion is much more than a blue transparent layer he didn't deem transparent enough. Guess he should be glad his name is not linked to fucked up doors though. Anyway, the full credits are in the original game referenced in the credits so it's not like they were omitted altogether, it's readily available information.


Folks were shitting on its graphics saying they thought it's reversed and it's so blurry and awful and he didn't once clarify the intent, just enjoyed it. It's meant as a shield and the new effect is much more than just a blue light at the edges (incidentally later Prime games also had it more prominent).

 

[SaintALia]

It's not. There are plenty of remaster devs crediting the original team.

But it is though, I've seen devs complaining about it for years.

We know that Xseed did it
https://kotaku.com/jrpg-publisher-removes-producer-from-new-games-credits-1835346097

The Washington Post did a story about it focused on Rockstar, but it was about the game industry itself:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/video-games/2021/05/18/video-game-credits-policy/

'“That has been a consistent policy because we have always felt that we want the team to get to the finish line,” Jennifer Kolbe, head of publishing at Rockstar, told Kotaku in 2018. “A very long time ago, we decided that if you didn’t actually finish the game, then you wouldn’t be in the credits.”'

We know Insomniac did it
https://www.inverse.com/gaming/developer-credits-special-thanks
“When you leave the studio, they treat you as a kind of pariah.”

Even IGN did a story on it
https://www.ign.com/articles/video-...e-group-of-volunteers-is-working-on-solutions
And it goes back years
https://www.videogameschronicle.com/features/opinion/game-credits-are-still-a-broken-mess/
https://kotaku.com/they-worked-on-the-game-you-played-but-didnt-get-credi-5427863

And it's a problem in Japan, though for some other reasons
https://www.timeextension.com/featu...companies-often-didnt-credit-their-developers


I think between Resetera and NeoGaf we've had threads covering this in detail with even individual devs weighing in. This should be widely known by now. It's shitty, but I figured a lot of people at least knew about it.

I didn't mean that it was a blanket wide policy across the entire industry, just that it has been known to be fairly common industry practice.

 

[Miyazaki’s Slave]

I am not weighing in one way or another here but I will say in these cases you do need the PERMISSION of the people you put into the credits before you can do that.

This is simple when you have specific folks you can reach out to (that live in your country for example) but the sticky situation is when you have to track down ALL the folks, some who could have been contractors for a larger outsourcing organization etc.

It isn't always "the publisher is screwing people out of credit here", in some cases the publisher can put themselves in hot water by not getting the proper clearance before using someone's name/likeness/etc.

 

[01011001]

Lol, that guy was comparing the doors with a sharp dolphin image of the original and a compressed youtube snapshot of the remaster saying it's "fucked up" and implying it was the same assets with some error or whatever but we've all seen it's all brand new stuff and the effect in motion is much more than a blue transparent layer he didn't deem transparent enough.

the doors in the new one are basically fully blue, the original design intent was a blue hue around the borders of the door.

and that doesn't change wether it's a blurry image or a sharp one.

 

[systemr123]

But it is though, I've seen devs complaining about it for years.

We know that Xseed did it
https://kotaku.com/jrpg-publisher-removes-producer-from-new-games-credits-1835346097

The Washington Post did a story about it focused on Rockstar, but it was about the game industry itself:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/video-games/2021/05/18/video-game-credits-policy/

'“That has been a consistent policy because we have always felt that we want the team to get to the finish line,” Jennifer Kolbe, head of publishing at Rockstar, told Kotaku in 2018. “A very long time ago, we decided that if you didn’t actually finish the game, then you wouldn’t be in the credits.”'

We know Insomniac did it
https://www.inverse.com/gaming/developer-credits-special-thanks
“When you leave the studio, they treat you as a kind of pariah.”

Even IGN did a story on it
https://www.ign.com/articles/video-...e-group-of-volunteers-is-working-on-solutions
And it goes back years
https://www.videogameschronicle.com/features/opinion/game-credits-are-still-a-broken-mess/
https://kotaku.com/they-worked-on-the-game-you-played-but-didnt-get-credi-5427863

And it's a problem in Japan, though for some other reasons
https://www.timeextension.com/featu...companies-often-didnt-credit-their-developers


I think between Resetera and NeoGaf we've had threads covering this in detail with even individual devs weighing in. This should be widely known by now. It's shitty, but I figured a lot of people at least knew about it.

I didn't mean that it was a blanket wide policy across the entire industry, just that it has been known to be fairly common industry practice.

Not trying to be insensitive here but aren’t the people that created the original credited in the original game? They had nothing to do with the remake and did no work for it, why should they be credited again? As far as I understand credits are a thing you get when you do a good job in something and not because of something you did in the past while you were already credited for the original.

I worked at Guerilla for a few days on Killzone 3, I was not credited and that is absolutely fine. I didn’t create anything for the game or had some significant input so why should I be credited? People are way too sensitive and entitled nowadays. If I’d work on the game for a few weeks months years and I had a useful contribution to the game, then I’d like and should be credited. Not people that just intern for a day, I mean come on, it devalues the whole credits system where technically someone who ever got a cup of coffee for someone should become credited.

 

[01011001]

And same game design, same concept art, same OST etc.

It's 90%+ the original game, with only upgraded visuals and tweaked controls on top.

The original devs should be credited.

well that's the obvious part of course, but the game's code like player movement, enemy behaviour etc. is also basically the same

 

[MagiusNecros]

Guess they didn't have the budget to list the OG squad in a Special Thanks portion of the Credits.

 

[Iced Arcade]

Update an add them! As long as there is a skip option (Can honestly say I never sat and read credits at the end of a game.)

 

[01011001]

Not trying to be insensitive here but aren’t the people that created the original credited in the original game? They had nothing to do with the remake and did no work for it, why should they be credited again?

because everything that's not related to the graphics still basically uses the original work done by them. this is a remaster, it's not a remake, it uses a new coat of graphics on top of the original work done by the original team with only slight modifications to said work.

scripting for enemies and environmental scripting, player movement, level design, game design, boss design, puzzle design, all of that is basically a 1 to 1 copy from the original game

 

[Shifty1897]

I'm of two minds on this. On one hand, dude already got credited for his work on the original game and contributed nothing to this one. On the other hand, they definitely lifted the source code this dude wrote as a starting point for the remaster. IMO, you should get credited for work you actively did on a project, but after the initial release, that work is owned by Nintendo and you don't get any more credit on it.

 

[K' Dash]

this is especially fucked up because almost 100% of the original underlying game logic is still used

how do you know that?

in your eyes something could be seen the same but the logic could be very different from the first game.

even if they refactored the logic, you should always credit all the staff from the first game.

 

[MiguelItUp]

Considering the game is a remaster, I think it's fair to say the original team should be credited, I mean, it'd also be a sign of good faith and respect. Even if it was a remake, it'd be based on something that had come before it. This game is the SAME game aside from some changes in geometry, some new textures, and a new lighting engine. Well, resolution and shit as well, but that's a given. Other than that, same everything. Models, sounds, music, renders, etc. This isn't a case of being insensitive, I think it's a case of just doing something the "right" thing. Not to mention, implementing credits is not a hard process, lmao. I've never understood situations where people from departments weren't included, or departments in general. Credits are vetted by multiple people, at least in my experience. QA, production, legal, etc. So, if something was missed, it was missed by multiple people, lol.

 

[01011001]

how do you know that?

in your eyes something could be seen the same but the logic could be very different from the first game.

even if they refactored the logic, you should always credit all the staff from the first game.

well given that the behaviour of almost everything in the game is basically identical, with the biggest difference being the new control schemes, why would they change anything? it's still running on the same engine albeit a newer version of it.

and even if we assume everything was recreated/replaced under the hood, there are other things about this remaster that are clearly unchanged. Leveldesign, audio, gamedesign etc. the stuff you can actually see and hear, those are clearly not replaced.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Since creative types at media companies want recognition, does anyone have experience working at a movie studio or game company?

Do the old sales and marketing and finance teams tell management to ensure their names are credited for all the groundwork they put into place for newer employees to take over when they leave? You got foundational processes that are worth millions of dollars which are constantly being built and improved upon by everyone who touches it.

Do they mandate their name on every file or PPT slide even if they worked at the company 20 years ago?

Does the IT team who implemented SAP data systems get their name engraved on the home page since they did the work 10 years ago?

 

[K' Dash]

well given that the behaviour of almost everything in the game is basically identical, with the biggest difference being the new control schemes, why would they change anything? it's still running on the same engine albeit a newer version of it.

and even if we assume everything was recreated/replaced under the hood, there are other things about this remaster that are clearly unchanged. Leveldesign, audio, gamedesign etc. the stuff you can actually see and hear, those are clearly not replaced.

There are a number of reasons for refactoring logic, depending on the language you wrote it and how much has changed since the first time there could be new libraries, new features to write functions that save memory and improves performance, reduce the amount of code, remove or reduce dependencies, etc.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Guess I’m going to go against the grain by saying I don’t feel everyone that was involved with the original game needs their name listed in the credits of remakes.

Are you telling me if they did a 4K remaster on Switch 3, that everyone who worked on the Gamecube originsl, Wii Trilogy port, and Switch Remake have to have their names in too?
Should Resident Evil 4’s remake list everyone who worked on the eighteen Resident Evil 4 ports?

At what point do you just put a blurb saying based on the works of the original release?

 

[01011001]

Guess I’m going to go against the grain by saying I don’t feel everyone that was involved with the original game needs their name listed in the credits of remakes.

it's not a remake

 

[01011001]

There are a number of reasons for refactoring logic, depending on the language you wrote it and how much has changed since the first time there could be new libraries, new features to write functions that save memory and improves performance, reduce the amount of code, remove or reduce dependencies, etc.

that's of course true. I guess we won't know for sure

 

[Draugoth]

That 'restoration' ironically made the painting much higher in value due to it's meme status.

 

[BlackTron]

Pretty obvious some of the people in this thread have never done any creative work.

Design a level/map in a game. Someone else puts new polygons over it. Clearly, your creative work did not appear in this game and it is only the work of the new guard being enjoyed.

Quite frankly, absolutely insane.

 

[yurinka]

well that's the obvious part of course, but the game's code like player movement, enemy behaviour etc. is also basically the same

True, the game mechanics, enemy AI, level design etc are the same the same.

Pretty likely the only changes are related to coding was to adapt the controls to Switch, to port it to Switch and to upgrade its visuals (shaders, rendering, lighting).

Over 90% of the work was made in the original game. This is only a good looking remaster.

 

[The Cockatrice]

There is a fine line nowadays between remake/remasters but I have to wonder, why shouldnt remakes also credit the OG team? Its based on the work of the original devs and without that work, the remake would not exist.

 

[Gorgyles]

I'd love to see the code.
I bet it's 99% similar to the GameCube original.
If that's anywhere close to the case then the original devs need credit.

 

[systemr123]

Pretty obvious some of the people in this thread have never done any creative work.

Design a level/map in a game. Someone else puts new polygons over it. Clearly, your creative work did not appear in this game and it is only the work of the new guard being enjoyed.

Quite frankly, absolutely insane.

You already got credited for your original work and did nothing for the new version. Now if it’d be a blatant 1 on 1 copy of the original, then yes you should be credited once more probably and not the new person since that one didn’t do anything.

 

[Robb]

Yeah, kinda strange to not include the people who actually made the game in the credits. I feel like adding a list of people is one of the easiest things you can do, not sure why you’d omit that of all things.

 

[K' Dash]

that's of course true. I guess we won't know for sure

correct, it's all speculation.

 

[BlackTron]

You already got credited for your original work and did nothing for the new version. Now if it’d be a blatant 1 on 1 copy of the original, then yes you should be credited once more probably and not the new person since that one didn’t do anything.

You are factually incorrect. You did nothing to marginally update the old work in the new game, correct. But the old work is still in the game.

Imagine writing a critically acclaimed book. Based on this work, a new writer adds several chapters and/or translates it to a different language. Because you did not participate in the new version, you are not credited.

It's called stupidity.

 

[Dirk Benedict]

At the very least, give credit to where it is due.

 

[diffusionx]

First of all, not all original devs, this one guy Zoid trying to get some followers on his Twitter. It’s pretty embarrassing actually because he states doing it about 12 minutes after this launched. Anyway, needless to say, they didn’t work on this. They don’t deserve a credit on a 2023 release because they worked on something in 2002, give me a break. They have the credit from 2002.

 

[hyperbertha]

First of all, not all original devs, this one guy Zoid trying to get some followers on his Twitter. It’s pretty embarrassing actually because he states doing it about 12 minutes after this launched. Anyway, needless to say, they didn’t work on this. They don’t deserve a credit on a 2023 release because they worked on something in 2002, give me a break. They have the credit from 2002.

I wonder if it were japanese dev, would they be complaining?

 

[BlackTron]

I wonder if it were japanese dev, would they be complaining?

Not with Nintendo's Yakuza around

 

[nial]

Pretty obvious some of the people in this thread have never done any creative work.

I don't understand some of those defending it, why is that? Do they just not want to feel bad for the product they're consooming, even though they don't have to?

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Credits are narcissistic trash anyway, that one line saying it's based on the original work is more than enough, it literally encapsulates everyone and you can still tell people you made it.

 

[kiphalfton]

Sue them for plagiarism

 

[kvltus lvlzvs]

Wow, that is incredibly lame and I feel sad for the original devs. They absolutely should have been included. Its actually shocking that they werent.

 

[BlackTron]

I don't understand some of those defending it, why is that? Do they just not want to feel bad for the product they're consooming, even though they don't have to?

It's completely weird, especially given that nothing has to be taken away or sacrificed in order to include credit.

It's simply doing the obviously proper thing, with absolutely no further expense or obligation whatsoever.

And people are like "why do it?"

 

[Shifty1897]

I also want to say, I've worked on ERP software for four fucking years and there's no credit on the software anywhere for me or anyone at my company. Maybe calm down.