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One year anniversary of Ubisoft ignoring pompous open letter demanding 'change'

STARSBarry

Gold Member
Really you can? According to them you're an offender for posting in this forum and your life needs to be ruined.

Do you understand how these kind of people classify offenders?

Sorry if your trying to convert me into some Kotaku In Action groupee I'm not buying it.

There was too much movement in their HR and too many senior heads rolling for their to be only smoke with no fire.

I also don't particularly care what they think, only what they produce, which I can choose to not buy if what they think bothers me enough, joys of a free market and all that.

The only Ubisoft game I have played recently is Valhalla, because it came as part of my PS Extra subscription so it got around my "never buy an Ubisoft title" rule i have maintained since Ghost Recon Wildlands.
 
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JackSparr0w

Banned
Sorry if your trying to convert me into some Kotaku In Action groupee I'm not buying it.

There was too much movement in their HR and too many senior heads rolling for their to be only smoke with no fire.

I also don't particularly care what they think, only what they produce, which I can choose to not buy if what they think bothers me enough, joys of a free market and all that.

The only Ubisoft game I have played recently is Valhalla, because it came as part of my PS Extra subscription so it got around my "never buy an Ubisoft title" rule i have maintained since Ghost Recon Wildlands.
If there was evidence of serious offences where are the police reports?

It is all a power grab move and nothing more and as you can see even with all the heads rolling they are still not happy.
 
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STARSBarry

Gold Member
If there was evidence of serious offences where are the police reports?

It is all a power grab move and nothing more and as you can see even with all the heads rolling they are still not happy.

Because sexual harassment is not a crime in most countries, certainly not France... why would the police write a report for something that is not a crime?

It is however a sackable offense due to company policy. Standard HR process.
 

JackSparr0w

Banned
Because sexual harassment is not a crime in most countries, certainly not France... why would the police write a report for something that is not a crime?

It is however a sackable offense due to company policy. Standard HR process.
What? Sexual harassment laws in France are so strict that you can be fined for wolf-whistling.
 
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STARSBarry

Gold Member
What? Sexual harassment laws in France are so strict that you can be fined for wolf-whistling.

Oh snap go France, never thought I'd see the day those cheese eaters had stricter laws on street harassment than the UK.

However that's specifically "in public"

And does not cover in office for example, that's a diffrent set of rules.
 
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Godot25

Banned
Jesus, that pronounce split is sad
NOT ENOUGH THEY/THEM REPRESENTATION!

It should be 33,3%/33,3%/33,3% split.

EQUALITY FOR EVERYONE

/s
 

JackSparr0w

Banned
And does not cover in office for example, that's a diffrent set of rules.
Of course sexual harassment law is even stricter there and includes prison sentences. Do you always argue with baseless assumptions?

Seriously looking things up is not hard.
 
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STARSBarry

Gold Member
Of course sexual harassment law is even stricter there and includes prison sentences. Do you always argue with baseless assumptions?

Seriously looking things up is not hard.

I mean sure, have you got hard evidence of no police reports or are you assuming that?


So let's call it quits here yeah? You assumed there was no police involvement, I assumed french still had the laws from back in the 2010's. OK

You could argue "well we don't know what's on those police reports" but then your just choosing to make an assumption, which I assume you would never do given your above comment. It does state the diffrence between what is seen as criminal and what should be held internally (which seems to just be sexual assualt).
 
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SmokedMeat

Gamer™
I haven’t followed the whole UbiSoft drama, but if people are fighting for better working conditions - then good on them.

Considering how disliked UbiSoft is, and how their games are derided as formulaic, I’m surprised people want to keep everything as is.
 

JackSparr0w

Banned
I mean sure, have you got hard evidence of no police reports or are you assuming that?


So let's call it quits here yeah? You assumed there was no police involvement, I assumed french still had the laws from back in the 2010's. OK?

You could argue "well we don't know what's on those police reports" but then your just choosing to make an assumption, which I assume you would never do given your above comment.
If there were police reports and court summons which are all public knowledge btw the media would be all over them.

I had a co worker who got called into the HR office after a complain and he had to show the texts from the coworker begging him to let her suck his dick. My friend kept his job but nothing happened to the woman.

I can assure you that's how most of the investigations went down at Ubisoft but some men lost their jobs or forced to quit over consensual affairs and flings.

Yes men lose their jobs over completely consensual affairs or flings with their subordinates or co-workers but I've never heard of a woman losing her job over that even if they do it just as often.
 
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JPSLotus97T

Member
Original thread: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/ubisoft-employees-demand-‘real-change’-in-open-letter-following-industry-misconduct-scandals.1614397/


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ZehDon

Member
That's why real issues will never be fixed, because they have to mix non-issues into it.
Nailed it.

Their first request is simple, clear, and very reasonable. Then they attach "And we want to run the company and we want a multi-industry blacklist that you unconditionally agree to" and all chance of change goes out the window. They see the chance to take an inch, and decide they want a mile.
 

STARSBarry

Gold Member

Sexual assualt is but harassment is not. These get thrown around interchangeably but yes it appears France had actually criminalised sexual harassment.

Very surprising given some people I have had the "pleasure" of working with.
 
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StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
If there were police reports and court summons which are all public knowledge btw the media would be all over them.

I had a co worker who got called into the HR office after a complain and he had to show the texts from the coworker begging him to let her suck his dick. My friend kept his job but nothing happened to the woman.

I can assure you that's how most of the investigations went down at Ubisoft but some men lost their jobs or forced to quit over consensual affairs and flings.

Yes men lose their jobs over completely consensual affairs or flings with their subordinates or co-workers but I've never heard of a woman losing her job over that even if they do it just as often.
Way back, there was a coworker who was on the firing line and everyone knew it (she was terrible and messed up vendor submission forms with the WRONG costs). Out of nowhere she pulled the sexual abuse thing against someone. And it wasnt even her boss. It was against one of her peer coworkers. She couldnt do it against her boss since she was female. So she did it against the closest worker male colleague in her department.

It took months to sort it out and various people had to get called into HR to see if they knew anything as she started tossing around names.

He was innocent. She BS'ed the whole thing to keep her job or get a pay out or whatever to get rid of her. He kept his job, and she got gassed. I highly doubt she got sued or anything for creating a stink. Just imagine if you were the guy who got accused. You won, but now everyone in the office knows you got grilled. And other people got dragged into it.

That's what you get with accusations. Most of the time it's a fail safe tactic. You either win and make bank. Or you lose and nothing happens.
 
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Droxcy

Member
It doesnt even have to be that serious of a topic like bad bosses and abuse.

Some employees just like to complain no matter what.

Case in point. At my company, we had about two years of WFH. The past 3 months we've been back to work hybrid style where management has asked employees to show up at the office one day a week. If you want to come in more go ahead, but please come in once a week. Were trying to set some cadence of person to person comraderie instead of everyone being robots on MS Teams where most people dont even go on cam. Many people in online meetings dont go on cam or say anything. You dont even know if they are sitting there listening or mowing the lawn.

You wouldnt believe the whining I've seen. Some people havent come in once. It's got so bad, the execs pushed down to all managers to take note who is coming in or not because they noticed when they come to the office there's almost nobody around. And they are right. I go to the office 2-3 times a week (never on a Friday) and there have been days there's 5 people in the office out of a max office pool of like 150 people. There is no way everyone shows up at least once a week. Thats all they ask.

And because of that, it's going to get to a point they fuck up the loose rules execs have set because they will at some point mandate more days and formal tracking.

For all your gaffers who had to go to work during covid like nothing happened, can you believe some WFH people who were lucky enough to not commute dont even want to go back one day per week? Insane.

Seriously this. I've been trying to go remote for the last 3 years and nothing sticking which most of us are fully capable if not better off doing.

I just left my last job industrial engineering/controls due to this reason, I had the one month off that mostly everyone had and then it was right back to the site for me I was even pushing for 1-2 days on site and rest of the week at home make code changes etc based of reports lower level people gathered onsite but the vocal minority of the idiots that always ruin shit messed that up real quick. Trust me at the end of the day face to face contact and being right down the hall or in the same building as someone is monumentally easier but leads to a lot of fatigue driving there, annoying people, etc.

It's always the people who can't do their jobs that ruin it for everyone else honestly they push their issues on everyone else and make it a company wide issue instead of just dealing with the 1-5 people that shouldn't even be there in the first place.
 

Rykan

Member
That's 25% of the letter signees. Actual ubi turnover has been worse in 2021 from what I've heard, but that's been a problem across all of tech in last 18 months.
I'm aware of that. I meant that a number of those people have, most likely, left for other reasons.

Having said that, I'm a bit surprised at the hostility of some of the the reactions here. I'm sure a lot of people take issue with the whole pronouns nonsense, but surely we can all agree that every employee deserves a safe work space?
 

Tams

Gold Member
I'm aware of that. I meant that a number of those people have, most likely, left for other reasons.

Having said that, I'm a bit surprised at the hostility of some of the the reactions here. I'm sure a lot of people take issue with the whole pronouns nonsense, but surely we can all agree that every employee deserves a safe work space?
If they decide to wrap it in the mental illness that is the pronouns nonsense and the sexism disguised as 'equality', then why should we care?
 

Rykan

Member
If they decide to wrap it in the mental illness that is the pronouns nonsense and the sexism disguised as 'equality', then why should we care?
Because the primary reason this campaign started is because of widespread abuse in Ubisoft. The fact that whoever runs the twitter account decides to use the silly pronouns thing doesn't take away from that. Just because I disagree with someone on pronouns usage doesn't mean that I don't think they deserve to do their jobs in peace without being harassed. The company is being investigated by a national employment watchdog (Yes, we all love irony) in Singapore.
 

Tumle

Member
I must be the luckiest guy on Earth.

Every company I've worked for (small ones when I was doing shitty summer jobs) and Fortune 500 kinds of companies (last 20+ years) all seem pretty goof to work for. No giant protests, no twitter battles, no CEO/Manager/Subordinate abuse lawsuits, no leadership roles quitting the company due to scandals etc....

That's wild west video game and tech culture for ya.

Maybe if bosses acted more maturely and employees did the same, where they all treated the workplace like professionals for 8 or 9 hours per day, you wouldnt get so much weird shit going on.
Art and artists express emotion. So a lot of people in that industry are maybe hyper emotional, but they have to be to get the best work done..

the problem is trying to fit those kind of people into a corporate culture/structure..

I’m pretty sure with out knowing the data, that most of the people that signed the partition and are not working there anymore are from one of there artistic departments and not coding departments or financial departments 😊
 
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StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Jesus i can feel the vertigo just by watching these dudes.

The big mistery is how they manage optimal balance on that thing with their gigantic 100 pounds testicles...
I can never understand or feel the bravery and balance anyone has doing those kinds of jobs. No safety harnesses. Nada. All it takes is a big gust of wind or you stumble your feet and you plunge to your death.

When I go to a baseball game and sit in the level 500 rafters, if I look down over the railing I get queasy already!
 

Tams

Gold Member
Because the primary reason this campaign started is because of widespread abuse in Ubisoft. The fact that whoever runs the twitter account decides to use the silly pronouns thing doesn't take away from that. Just because I disagree with someone on pronouns usage doesn't mean that I don't think they deserve to do their jobs in peace without being harassed. The company is being investigated by a national employment watchdog (Yes, we all love irony) in Singapore.
Who you allow to be your spokesman, sorry, spokesperson :rolleyes: does matter. If that person attaches issues onto your concerns and complaints and they will be seen as one package.

As I'll amply show here: I now don't care about their plight and wish Ubisoft luck in quashing them. And I'm sure there are quite a few who agree with me here.
 
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Fafalada

Fafracer forever
I'm aware of that. I meant that a number of those people have, most likely, left for other reasons.
I mean yes, but likewise on the other end - I would be willing to bet money that a lot of other leavers that never signed the letter also left for same/related reason. So the total % of people leaving for the concerns cited is impossible to determine, and could just as well be higher than 25%.

When shit hits the fan, companies will trim the fat and maybe after all of this, people saw where they really fit into those companies and felt they can do better on their own or something. I think it sucks that it had to happen this way, but I don't think many should have been putting so much faith in those companies in the first place, but a topic for a different day.
It's bigger than that. The unifier has been the big shift in working conditions (be it WFH or something else, including those that ended up furloughed etc.) during Covid - leading to people reassessing their work, life etc. in a new light. So it doesn't matter if that led to losing faith in companies, or realizing you could do much better financially, or that you were absolutely miserable in the job you were doing, or 1001 other reasons - it got people to stop and think on a global scale, something that just hasn't happened before.
The side-effect of it leading to job-seekers holding more power in the market for a change, which snowballs into even more people rethinking their place etc.
 

JonSnowball

Member
"Stop Promoting Known Offenders"? Is the Ubisoft board made up of date rapists? What the fuck is that about, or is it like the Rockstar report talking about how the company culture is borderline felonious because the guys at the studio go to bars together?

 

Ladioss

Member
The best way to deal with the entitled mentally ill is to ignore them.
And that's precisely how clown world came into being : you try to not pay too much attention to what the special people are doing for 20 or 25 years, and you wake up one morning to learn that they are running the asylum from now on because our oligarchs have realized that they are cheaper and more loyal than regular politicians.
 
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Rykan

Member
Who you allow to be your spokesman, sorry, spokesperson :rolleyes: does matter. If that person attaches issues onto your concerns and complaints and they will be seen as one package.

As I'll amply show here: I now don't care about their plight and wish Ubisoft luck in quashing them. And I'm sure there are quite a few who agree with me here.
I doubt someone who has such an extreme reaction to the pronouns thing was even a big supporter of their plight to begin with.
 

Tams

Gold Member
I doubt someone who has such an extreme reaction to the pronouns thing was even a big supporter of their plight to begin with.
Actually yes, I do care for workers' rights. My country currently has a lot of strikes happening or being warned of and I am behind the strikers completely. Not to go into forbidden territory here, but the US's approach to unions is a sick joke.

I have no time for it if they bandwagon issues other than pay and basic decent and safe working environments onto it though. No, recognising gendered pronouns is not part of that.

But hey, thanks for trying to tell me my opinion. Cunt.
 
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It doesnt even have to be that serious of a topic like bad bosses and abuse.

Some employees just like to complain no matter what.

Case in point. At my company, we had about two years of WFH. The past 3 months we've been back to work hybrid style where management has asked employees to show up at the office one day a week. If you want to come in more go ahead, but please come in once a week. Were trying to set some cadence of person to person comraderie instead of everyone being robots on MS Teams where most people dont even go on cam. Many people in online meetings dont go on cam or say anything. You dont even know if they are sitting there listening or mowing the lawn.

You wouldnt believe the whining I've seen. Some people havent come in once. It's got so bad, the execs pushed down to all managers to take note who is coming in or not because they noticed when they come to the office there's almost nobody around. And they are right. I go to the office 2-3 times a week (never on a Friday) and there have been days there's 5 people in the office out of a max office pool of like 150 people. There is no way everyone shows up at least once a week. Thats all they ask.

And because of that, it's going to get to a point they fuck up the loose rules execs have set because they will at some point mandate more days and formal tracking.

For all your gaffers who had to go to work during covid like nothing happened, can you believe some WFH people who were lucky enough to not commute dont even want to go back one day per week? Insane.
Maybe because they realized that WFH allows them to save a small fortune in gas prices, saves them 1-2 hours a day from not commuting, gives them flexibility to do stuff at the house at break time, allows them to save on food by eating at home, saves them from interacting with annoying co-workers, all while still doing their jobs properly...should I keep going?

Also, EVERYONE knows that the "one day per week" will quickly turn into 3 days per week, and eventually into "everyone back to the office full time".
 

Rykan

Member
Actually yes, I do care for workers' rights. My country currently has a lot of strikes happening or being warned of and I am behind the strikers completely. Not to go into forbidden territory here, but the US's approach to unions is a sick joke.

I have no time for it if they bandwagon issues other than pay and basic decent and safe working environments onto it though. No, recognising gendered pronouns is not part of that.

But hey, thanks for trying to tell me my opinion. Cunt.
Someone who completely dismisses someone's right to a safe work environment based entirely on fucking pronouns usage in a photo on twitter doesn't give a fuck about "workers rights".

"I only support your right to a safe workspace if you agree with me something unrelated and if you don't, then I hope your company squashes you".
 

CuNi

Member
Maybe because they realized that WFH allows them to save a small fortune in gas prices, saves them 1-2 hours a day from not commuting, gives them flexibility to do stuff at the house at break time, allows them to save on food by eating at home, saves them from interacting with annoying co-workers, all while still doing their jobs properly...should I keep going?

Also, EVERYONE knows that the "one day per week" will quickly turn into 3 days per week, and eventually into "everyone back to the office full time".
Since covid We also had a wfh policy that just recently became a "you can come back to the office of you want".

I don't wanna go back because of the reasons you said. My work has considerably improved as I'm not a morning person at all and we're now allows to work whenever we want. I work mostly in the evenings now. No pointless meetings to take part in, no loud crammed offices. I can work on my own terms. Motivation feels like it doubled for me. If they were to demand ppl back in office, I think many would protest. We even hired so many new pplin the pandemic, i don't think we'd all fit into the offices as they are at the same time rn.

WFH is one of the best things that came out of covid and I hope it's here to stay as long as it takes no impact on company finances by means of less or worse work.
 

Soodanim

Member
Someone who completely dismisses someone's right to a safe work environment based entirely on fucking pronouns usage in a photo on twitter doesn't give a fuck about "workers rights".

"I only support your right to a safe workspace if you agree with me something unrelated and if you don't, then I hope your company squashes you".
I wonder who this mysterious "someone" is in your back and forth direct replies to and from one person
 

Tams

Gold Member
Someone who completely dismisses someone's right to a safe work environment based entirely on fucking pronouns usage in a photo on twitter doesn't give a fuck about "workers rights".

"I only support your right to a safe workspace if you agree with me something unrelated and if you don't, then I hope your company squashes you".
If you want something, but then want something else as well and package it all together, then you should not be surprised if the entire thing is dismissed.

Clearly more people need to learn how to pick their battles and just work on basic social skills.
 
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Since covid We also had a wfh policy that just recently became a "you can come back to the office of you want".

I don't wanna go back because of the reasons you said. My work has considerably improved as I'm not a morning person at all and we're now allows to work whenever we want. I work mostly in the evenings now. No pointless meetings to take part in, no loud crammed offices. I can work on my own terms. Motivation feels like it doubled for me. If they were to demand ppl back in office, I think many would protest. We even hired so many new pplin the pandemic, i don't think we'd all fit into the offices as they are at the same time rn.

WFH is one of the best things that came out of covid and I hope it's here to stay as long as it takes no impact on company finances by means of less or worse work.
We had a meeting this week about forcing everyone back to the office 3 days a week, every few weeks. There was over 350 angry comments down in the chat. People are not happy at all, as many of us were hired during the pandemic, and have never been to the office yet. Plus you still have some people panicking about getting sick, people who work out of state and can't commute 4 hours to work every day. It's really getting people angry.
 
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