Spaceman292
Member
Yeah they should have just focused on that one rather than diluting it with all the other shit.
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One year anniversary of Ubisoft ignoring pompous open letter demanding 'change'
- Thread starter cormack12
- Start date
JackSparr0w
Member
Really you can? According to them you're an offender for posting in this forum and your life needs to be ruined.
Do you understand how these kind of people classify offenders?
STARSBarry
Gold Member
Sorry if your trying to convert me into some Kotaku In Action groupee I'm not buying it.
There was too much movement in their HR and too many senior heads rolling for their to be only smoke with no fire.
I also don't particularly care what they think, only what they produce, which I can choose to not buy if what they think bothers me enough, joys of a free market and all that.
The only Ubisoft game I have played recently is Valhalla, because it came as part of my PS Extra subscription so it got around my "never buy an Ubisoft title" rule i have maintained since Ghost Recon Wildlands.
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worldwithpyramids
Member
lmao
JackSparr0w
Member
If there was evidence of serious offences where are the police reports?
It is all a power grab move and nothing more and as you can see even with all the heads rolling they are still not happy.
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STARSBarry
Gold Member
Because sexual harassment is not a crime in most countries, certainly not France... why would the police write a report for something that is not a crime?
It is however a sackable offense due to company policy. Standard HR process.
JackSparr0w
Member
What? Sexual harassment laws in France are so strict that you can be fined for wolf-whistling.
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STARSBarry
Gold Member
Oh snap go France, never thought I'd see the day those cheese eaters had stricter laws on street harassment than the UK.
However that's specifically "in public"
And does not cover in office for example, that's a diffrent set of rules.
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Mister Wolf
Member
The best way to deal with the entitled mentally ill is to ignore them.
JackSparr0w
Member
Of course sexual harassment law is even stricter there and includes prison sentences. Do you always argue with baseless assumptions?
Seriously looking things up is not hard.
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STARSBarry
Gold Member
I mean sure, have you got hard evidence of no police reports or are you assuming that?
Ubisoft S'pore under probe over workplace complaints
The national watchdog for fair employment practices is investigating the Singapore office of French video-game developer Ubisoft - of Assassin's Creed fame - over claims of sexual harassment and workplace discrimination. Read more at straitstimes.com.
So let's call it quits here yeah? You assumed there was no police involvement, I assumed french still had the laws from back in the 2010's. OK
You could argue "well we don't know what's on those police reports" but then your just choosing to make an assumption, which I assume you would never do given your above comment. It does state the diffrence between what is seen as criminal and what should be held internally (which seems to just be sexual assualt).
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SmokedMeat
Gamer™
I haven’t followed the whole UbiSoft drama, but if people are fighting for better working conditions - then good on them.
Considering how disliked UbiSoft is, and how their games are derided as formulaic, I’m surprised people want to keep everything as is.
Considering how disliked UbiSoft is, and how their games are derided as formulaic, I’m surprised people want to keep everything as is.
JackSparr0w
Member
If there were police reports and court summons which are all public knowledge btw the media would be all over them.I mean sure, have you got hard evidence of no police reports or are you assuming that?
Ubisoft S'pore under probe over workplace complaints
The national watchdog for fair employment practices is investigating the Singapore office of French video-game developer Ubisoft - of Assassin's Creed fame - over claims of sexual harassment and workplace discrimination. Read more at straitstimes.com.www.straitstimes.com
So let's call it quits here yeah? You assumed there was no police involvement, I assumed french still had the laws from back in the 2010's. OK?
You could argue "well we don't know what's on those police reports" but then your just choosing to make an assumption, which I assume you would never do given your above comment.
I had a co worker who got called into the HR office after a complain and he had to show the texts from the coworker begging him to let her suck his dick. My friend kept his job but nothing happened to the woman.
I can assure you that's how most of the investigations went down at Ubisoft but some men lost their jobs or forced to quit over consensual affairs and flings.
Yes men lose their jobs over completely consensual affairs or flings with their subordinates or co-workers but I've never heard of a woman losing her job over that even if they do it just as often.
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Fuz
Member
wat
ZehDon
Member
Nailed it.
Their first request is simple, clear, and very reasonable. Then they attach "And we want to run the company and we want a multi-industry blacklist that you unconditionally agree to" and all chance of change goes out the window. They see the chance to take an inch, and decide they want a mile.
STARSBarry
Gold Member
dDoc
Member
A push back might be a better idea, otherwise they'll never shut up and demand even more insanities.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Way back, there was a coworker who was on the firing line and everyone knew it (she was terrible and messed up vendor submission forms with the WRONG costs). Out of nowhere she pulled the sexual abuse thing against someone. And it wasnt even her boss. It was against one of her peer coworkers. She couldnt do it against her boss since she was female. So she did it against the closest worker male colleague in her department.
It took months to sort it out and various people had to get called into HR to see if they knew anything as she started tossing around names.
He was innocent. She BS'ed the whole thing to keep her job or get a pay out or whatever to get rid of her. He kept his job, and she got gassed. I highly doubt she got sued or anything for creating a stink. Just imagine if you were the guy who got accused. You won, but now everyone in the office knows you got grilled. And other people got dragged into it.
That's what you get with accusations. Most of the time it's a fail safe tactic. You either win and make bank. Or you lose and nothing happens.
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JackSparr0w
Member
Indeed and guys that got falsely accused and won are the "serial offenders" they mention at their number 1 demand.
Droxcy
Member
Seriously this. I've been trying to go remote for the last 3 years and nothing sticking which most of us are fully capable if not better off doing.
I just left my last job industrial engineering/controls due to this reason, I had the one month off that mostly everyone had and then it was right back to the site for me I was even pushing for 1-2 days on site and rest of the week at home make code changes etc based of reports lower level people gathered onsite but the vocal minority of the idiots that always ruin shit messed that up real quick. Trust me at the end of the day face to face contact and being right down the hall or in the same building as someone is monumentally easier but leads to a lot of fatigue driving there, annoying people, etc.
It's always the people who can't do their jobs that ruin it for everyone else honestly they push their issues on everyone else and make it a company wide issue instead of just dealing with the 1-5 people that shouldn't even be there in the first place.
Rykan
Gold Member
I'm aware of that. I meant that a number of those people have, most likely, left for other reasons.
Having said that, I'm a bit surprised at the hostility of some of the the reactions here. I'm sure a lot of people take issue with the whole pronouns nonsense, but surely we can all agree that every employee deserves a safe work space?
Tams
Member
If they decide to wrap it in the mental illness that is the pronouns nonsense and the sexism disguised as 'equality', then why should we care?
Rykan
Gold Member
Because the primary reason this campaign started is because of widespread abuse in Ubisoft. The fact that whoever runs the twitter account decides to use the silly pronouns thing doesn't take away from that. Just because I disagree with someone on pronouns usage doesn't mean that I don't think they deserve to do their jobs in peace without being harassed. The company is being investigated by a national employment watchdog (Yes, we all love irony) in Singapore.
Men_in_Boxes
Member
Tumle
Member
Art and artists express emotion. So a lot of people in that industry are maybe hyper emotional, but they have to be to get the best work done..
the problem is trying to fit those kind of people into a corporate culture/structure..
I’m pretty sure with out knowing the data, that most of the people that signed the partition and are not working there anymore are from one of there artistic departments and not coding departments or financial departments
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GymWolf
Gold Member
Jesus i can feel the vertigo just by watching these dudes.
I think we're just skeptical of what "workplace safety" actually means.
The big mistery is how they manage optimal balance on that thing with their gigantic 100 pounds testicles...
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
I can never understand or feel the bravery and balance anyone has doing those kinds of jobs. No safety harnesses. Nada. All it takes is a big gust of wind or you stumble your feet and you plunge to your death.
When I go to a baseball game and sit in the level 500 rafters, if I look down over the railing I get queasy already!
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
Tams
Member
Who you allow to be your spokesman, sorry, spokesperson
does matter. If that person attaches issues onto your concerns and complaints and they will be seen as one package.As I'll amply show here: I now don't care about their plight and wish Ubisoft luck in quashing them. And I'm sure there are quite a few who agree with me here.
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SlimySnake
The Contrarian
Harrassment is a no no but some of these demands.... Just shut the fuck up and do your fucking job.
cinnamonandgravy
Member
make good games first.
I mean yes, but likewise on the other end - I would be willing to bet money that a lot of other leavers that never signed the letter also left for same/related reason. So the total % of people leaving for the concerns cited is impossible to determine, and could just as well be higher than 25%.
It's bigger than that. The unifier has been the big shift in working conditions (be it WFH or something else, including those that ended up furloughed etc.) during Covid - leading to people reassessing their work, life etc. in a new light. So it doesn't matter if that led to losing faith in companies, or realizing you could do much better financially, or that you were absolutely miserable in the job you were doing, or 1001 other reasons - it got people to stop and think on a global scale, something that just hasn't happened before.
The side-effect of it leading to job-seekers holding more power in the market for a change, which snowballs into even more people rethinking their place etc.
JonSnowball
Member
"Stop Promoting Known Offenders"? Is the Ubisoft board made up of date rapists? What the fuck is that about, or is it like the Rockstar report talking about how the company culture is borderline felonious because the guys at the studio go to bars together?
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
Man, demand #2 is something else, but #3 is insane. Industry wide? Bitch, you did fuck all in a year for one company, you want to drag the whole industry with you??
Ladioss
Member
And that's precisely how clown world came into being : you try to not pay too much attention to what the special people are doing for 20 or 25 years, and you wake up one morning to learn that they are running the asylum from now on because our oligarchs have realized that they are cheaper and more loyal than regular politicians.
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Rykan
Gold Member
I doubt someone who has such an extreme reaction to the pronouns thing was even a big supporter of their plight to begin with.Who you allow to be your spokesman, sorry, spokesperson
As I'll amply show here: I now don't care about their plight and wish Ubisoft luck in quashing them. And I'm sure there are quite a few who agree with me here.
Tams
Member
Actually yes, I do care for workers' rights. My country currently has a lot of strikes happening or being warned of and I am behind the strikers completely. Not to go into forbidden territory here, but the US's approach to unions is a sick joke.
I have no time for it if they bandwagon issues other than pay and basic decent and safe working environments onto it though. No, recognising gendered pronouns is not part of that.
But hey, thanks for trying to tell me my opinion. Cunt.
The Eradicator
Member
Maybe because they realized that WFH allows them to save a small fortune in gas prices, saves them 1-2 hours a day from not commuting, gives them flexibility to do stuff at the house at break time, allows them to save on food by eating at home, saves them from interacting with annoying co-workers, all while still doing their jobs properly...should I keep going?
Also, EVERYONE knows that the "one day per week" will quickly turn into 3 days per week, and eventually into "everyone back to the office full time".
Rykan
Gold Member
Someone who completely dismisses someone's right to a safe work environment based entirely on fucking pronouns usage in a photo on twitter doesn't give a fuck about "workers rights".
"I only support your right to a safe workspace if you agree with me something unrelated and if you don't, then I hope your company squashes you".
CuNi
Member
Since covid We also had a wfh policy that just recently became a "you can come back to the office of you want".
I don't wanna go back because of the reasons you said. My work has considerably improved as I'm not a morning person at all and we're now allows to work whenever we want. I work mostly in the evenings now. No pointless meetings to take part in, no loud crammed offices. I can work on my own terms. Motivation feels like it doubled for me. If they were to demand ppl back in office, I think many would protest. We even hired so many new pplin the pandemic, i don't think we'd all fit into the offices as they are at the same time rn.
WFH is one of the best things that came out of covid and I hope it's here to stay as long as it takes no impact on company finances by means of less or worse work.
Soodanim
Member
I wonder who this mysterious "someone" is in your back and forth direct replies to and from one person
Tams
Member
If you want something, but then want something else as well and package it all together, then you should not be surprised if the entire thing is dismissed.
Clearly more people need to learn how to pick their battles and just work on basic social skills.
The Eradicator
Member
We had a meeting this week about forcing everyone back to the office 3 days a week, every few weeks. There was over 350 angry comments down in the chat. People are not happy at all, as many of us were hired during the pandemic, and have never been to the office yet. Plus you still have some people panicking about getting sick, people who work out of state and can't commute 4 hours to work every day. It's really getting people angry.