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Analysis Observer: System Redux is Simply Better on PS5 Than Xbox Series X

ethomaz

is mad because DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
Mar 19, 2013
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It makes perfect sense, it's the same logic that led to the Xbox One X.

What actually makes sense, and what you think does or does not make sense is entirely different.
Yeap it makes perfect sense for a last-generation machine.

We are in a new generation and Sony bring innovations to PS5 APU to reach new heights.

But seems like Ms wants to live in past “success” (if Xbox One X can be considered a success lol).
 
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kuncol02

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It doesn't really matter what they're making - this is a port of an old game, without raytracing on xbox, that runs worse than the PS5 version that has ray tracing. It's a dev problem. When games like Watch Dogs, COD, and DMC5 have ray tracing on both and perform the same on both, don't you see something seems off about this? A small budget port of a previous generation game having signficant differences and still running worse?

Unless of course you think that this game is the biggest and most next gen game released so far, that uses both consoles to their potential the most.................which you don't, right?

If anything, this sheds more light on how the Medium is going to turn out - terribly. If they can't even make a previous gen game work with next gen features then what hope do they have making a next gen only game? Any excitement I had for the medium, which was close to zero anyway because yuck, walking simulator, is now gone.
I don't think that many people know that Bloober is company responsible for two probably worst launch games in history (Basement Crawl for PS4 and A-Men for Vita). Their Basement Crawl was so bad that they had to remake it and sell under other name. Before that they made great games Music Master Chopin. Even before that they were known as Nibris and released some crappy DSiWare games and trailer for Wii game called "Sadness". Someone even remember that?
 
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Exanthus

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So I did some math and actually, the difference in gpu clock speed between the ps5 and XSX is actually greater than the difference in Teraflops between the two machines. *roughly

XSX TF advantage : 17%*
PS5 gpu clockspeed advantage : 21%*

Initially I thought like DynamiteCop! DynamiteCop! and just assumed it was the tools.

However if we think about it, even if the games on both machines are operating at the same resolution, the geometry pipeline and basically everything else is pretty much faster on ps5, meaning it might be that, in the best case the XSX can match ps5, but it makes sense that PS5 is doing better in these initial games.

I'm not saying the results we're seeing won't get better on the XSX side, but it could be the case that Ps5 will actually be a slightly better multiplat machine ; either offering similar performance at the same resolution or, clearly better performance/graphics at a lower resolution.

XSX might show its advantage in its console exclusive games, where games rely more on memory bandwidth or pure floating performance and less on clockspeed. Regardless, we've got more to see from the likes of DF and it's early days for sure, but it's becoming more clear that these machines are much more evenly matched than it appears.

On the bright side, XSX remains much more appealing to me due to its incredible BC implementation, and having skipped the Xbox one generation myself, among other things i'm not too thrilled with on Ps5, but I digress.


Finally, someone who actually posts something civil!

Thanks for this.
 
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Dave_at_Home

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It doesn't really matter what they're making - this is a port of an old game, without raytracing on xbox, that runs worse than the PS5 version that has ray tracing. It's a dev problem. When games like Watch Dogs, COD, and DMC5 have ray tracing on both and perform the same on both, don't you see something seems off about this? A small budget port of a previous generation game having signficant differences and still running worse?

Unless of course you think that this game is the biggest and most next gen game released so far, that uses both consoles to their potential the most.................which you don't, right?

If anything, this sheds more light on how the Medium is going to turn out - terribly. If they can't even make a previous gen game work with next gen features then what hope do they have making a next gen only game? Any excitement I had for the medium, which was close to zero anyway because yuck, walking simulator, is now gone.
Like I said, I don't think there's any funny business going on with the developers. It's also entirely possible the guy sharing the screenshot comparison is fucking with people. That could be the Series S, or it could be straight FUD. You're jumping the shark on the developers here. Granted, like you, I don't care for this particular game either, but I'd much rather wait for a Digital Foundry comparison than some random early FUD special.
 

BlitzerRadic

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Dynamite Cop rn:

 

Skifi28

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What the FUD?

They didn't activate SMT on the CPU? Only running at 70% efficiency? How the fuck do you measure that? Good lord the Xbox fanboys are trying their hardest.

Efficiency is the new Cell.

"You think this game looks good? And we only operate at 84% efficiency."
 
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I fucking knew something was off in the build up to launch. Gut instinct. One of the reasons I bought XSX was for its supposedly more capable hardware, which they themselves have pushed. I mean read this


He says it right there. You can say I should know better or whatever. I’m not really clued up on the technical side of things but i remember the PS4/X1 stuff about teraflops, it dominated discussions for months and months. Years even.

A fair number of people I follow on social media have gone radio silence on this stuff lately too when they wouldn’t shut up about it previously. Fuck sake.
 
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Dave_at_Home

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Efficiecy is the new Cell.

"You think this game looks good? And we only operate at 84% efficincy."
The whole thing is ridiculous. That guys is saying Microsoft could not offer the tools to turn SMT on or off? It's literally one of the baseline features of Series X. You have 3.8 and no SMT for all backwards compatible titles to run at the highest framerates. Then you have 3.6 with SMT for true next-gen titles. People keep swallowing this nonsense. You can find interviews with one of the developers from Codemasters talking about Series X tools with some of the other typical FUD spreaders out there and shut that "its the tools" narrative down. I understand the hard pivot with those guys. I wouldn't want to eat crow either.

Edit: The dead giveaway here was the talk of 70% efficiency. Someone should ask that dude how his "sources" managed to measure that.
 
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WildBoy

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Jun 13, 2019
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If the kinks get ironed out on the consoles’ and tv side of things.

Seems to be working pretty great on my Samsung Q90r QLED... Though Warzone seems to not like HDR10 with 120Hz enabled... Hopefully a patch comes. To be fair game looks decent without HDR. The Xbox dash with 120hz on is an absolute butter smooth dream. PS5 hits uk in few days ouuuf let's get this generation started!
 

GHG

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Why is it so difficult for some people to take it on the chin and admit they were wrong?

Where's the shame in that? It's just a internet forum ffs, it's not like you're at work and your reputation for your career is at stake or something.

You got it wrong, you were duped by the marketing and that's it. It's ok.
 
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SlimeGooGoo

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Why is it so difficult for some people to take it on the chin and admit they were wrong?

Where's the shame in that? It's just a internet forum ffs, it's not like you're at work and your reputation for your career is at stake or something.

You got it wrong, you were duped by the marketing and that's it. It's ok.
Quoting for posterity
 
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A fair number of people I follow on social media have gone radio silence on this stuff lately too when they wouldn’t shut up about it previously. Fuck sake.
And you (me) would get some serious blowback from these people whenever we would be tempted to point out the possibility that the machines were even close to be within 18% of each other in gaming performance (or that the PS5 could do raytracing at all).

I wonder where they all are now, probably looking to get a PS5 at this point.
 
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sol_bad

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That has nothing to do with anything, the hardware is there, an abundance of it, and RT hardware is on board, and more of it, so if it's absent it's because of some kind developmental issue and entirely tied to software.

This isn't even a question at this point.

I'm sure this has been mentioned before but flops mean shit all if you don't have good management and developers to use those teraflops. Whatever the problem is on XSX, the programers couldn't overcome it.
 
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onQ123

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So I did some math and actually, the difference in gpu clock speed between the ps5 and XSX is actually greater than the difference in Teraflops between the two machines. *roughly

XSX TF advantage : 17%*
PS5 gpu clockspeed advantage : 21%*

Initially I thought like DynamiteCop! DynamiteCop! and just assumed it was the tools.

However if we think about it, even if the games on both machines are operating at the same resolution, the geometry pipeline and basically everything else is pretty much faster on ps5, meaning it might be that, in the best case the XSX can match ps5, but it makes sense that PS5 is doing better in these initial games.

I'm not saying the results we're seeing won't get better on the XSX side, but it could be the case that Ps5 will actually be a slightly better multiplat machine ; either offering similar performance at the same resolution or, clearly better performance/graphics at a lower resolution.

XSX might show its advantage in its console exclusive games, where games rely more on memory bandwidth or pure floating performance and less on clockspeed. Regardless, we've got more to see from the likes of DF and it's early days for sure, but it's becoming more clear that these machines are much more evenly matched than it appears.

On the bright side, XSX remains much more appealing to me due to its incredible BC implementation, and having skipped the Xbox one generation myself, among other things i'm not too thrilled with on Ps5, but I digress.


In short unlock my damn thread

 
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DynamiteCop!

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Why is it so difficult for some people to take it on the chin and admit they were wrong?

Where's the shame in that? It's just a internet forum ffs, it's not like you're at work and your reputation for your career is at stake or something.

You got it wrong, you were duped by the marketing and that's it. It's ok.
Because there's nothing to admit? You actually think this is going to be the modus operandi going forward? You actually think the PlayStation 5 is going to be the "powerful" system?

Nah bro, just nah. This is a set of software kinks that will be resolved, and nothing more.
 
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GHG

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Because there's nothing to admit? You actually think this is going to be the modus operandi going forward? You actually think the PlayStation 5 is going to be the "powerful" system?

Nah bro, just nah. This is a set of software kinks that will be resolved, and nothing more.

So explain this to me, how and why are Microsoft, a software company, struggling with software for their system?

This should be their bread and butter.

If it's just software then it should be resolved pretty swiftly. If it doesn't get resolved then what will you say?
 

longdi

Ni hao ma, fellow kids?
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So SX version runs 4k
Ps5 is limited to last gen 1080p albiet with the typical basic console RT.

This sounds like the dmc5s rumor had grounds, that SX RT hardware is late. So capcom was able to just squeeze it in. A smaller team like blobber games here can't.

Again lets jump the gun because you dont like Phil M$ or something :messenger_ghost::messenger_ok:
 

01011001

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wait, so these 2 systems run 2 completely different settings and people now argue about performance?

how can you compare 1080p + raytracing with 4k without raytracing and think you have any accurate understanding of which system runs the game better?

this also highly suggests an issue with development tools,
you can joke about it all you want, but that's extremely likely the case here as every single piece of evidence points to it being the case.
 
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DynamiteCop!

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So explain this to me, how and why are Microsoft, a software company, struggling with software for their system?

This should be their bread and butter.

If it's just software then it should be resolved pretty swiftly. If it doesn't get resolved then what will you say?
Well it most definitely will be, they just moved to a new development platform. I mean come on man.

This doesn't take a degree in astrophysics to know that there's going to be a learning curve plus some unfamiliarity and advancement of the GDK to be done.

This is early days.
 
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Hix

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When was this article written?

About 3-4 hours ago the game got a 2.5gb patch on Series X, feels much smoother on 4k mode now and looks a bit better too.
 
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aries_71

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Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

Amazing game, brilliant voice acting work, great story. Great atmosphere. Loved it the first time around and looking forward to getting this for PS5 on the 19th.
No, just no. Anything that technical mess called the Observer does, Soma does one thousand times better. I don’t even remember what the a Observer story was about, but I certainly remember it’s framerate tanking everywhere. That memorable.
 
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MrFunSocks

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Like I said, I don't think there's any funny business going on with the developers. It's also entirely possible the guy sharing the screenshot comparison is fucking with people. That could be the Series S, or it could be straight FUD. You're jumping the shark on the developers here. Granted, like you, I don't care for this particular game either, but I'd much rather wait for a Digital Foundry comparison than some random early FUD special.
I'm not saying there's any funny business going on, just a lack of skill/resources/time. They clearly didn't put much effort in, or their skills just aren't up to par. COD has a 120fps mode. COD has a 60fps4K mode on Series X, with Ray Tracing. Watch dogs has raytracing and looks infinitely better. DMC5 has raytracing even after they announced it wouldn't and runs at 60fps.

Observer: System Redux is a port of a previous generation game, made by some little team of Polish devs that have made terrible games in the past, that is in no way more taxing on the hardware than any of the games I just listed. It's not console warring or anything to say that the problem here is just the devs and nothing to do with the hardware.

Like I said, unless people think that this port of a previous generation game is more demanding on the hardware than COD Cold War, Valhalla, Watch Dogs, or even other ported previous gen games like Gears 5, Forza Horizon 4, etc, then the problem simply has to be the developers. Not all developers are made equal. Some are just bad at their jobs, hence why bad games get released.

Anyone even remotely using this to suggest that the PS5 is more powerful than the Series X is a fanboy, pure and simple. It's a terrible port by questionable developers, and it needs to be seen as such.
 

ToadMan

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Some people here seriously believe that Sony is as good developing features for gpus as Amd itself, even better?Wonder why they dont sell their own graphic cards.Intel, with all their money and hardware knowledge failed with Larabee.

Sony builds consumer hardware and develops custom components.

For that purpose Sony are better than AMD and easily better than Intel and MS just going by their track record of doing it for decades.
 

Amiga

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I don’t understand . How the ps5 version better ? Unless it was better optimized on the ps5, there is no way ps5 can beat a XSX in terms of power. Kinda strange . Maybe that’s why digital foundry said there are surprises ?


Cerny on clocks vs FLOPS : Performance is noticeably different, because 'teraflops' is defined as the computational capability of the vector ALU. That's just one part of the GPU, there are a lot of other units - and those other units all run faster when the GPU frequency is higher. At 33 per cent higher frequency, rasterisation goes 33 per cent faster, processing the command buffer goes that much faster, the L1 and L2 caches have that much higher bandwidth, and so on.. A raising tide lifts all boats, it’s easier to utilize 36 CUs in parallel than it’s to fully use 48 CU’s- when triangles are small, it’s much harder to fill all those CUs with useful work.
 

ToadMan

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I don't think that many people know that Bloober is company responsible for two probably worst launch games in history (Basement Crawl for PS4 and A-Men for Vita). Their Basement Crawl was so bad that they had to remake it and sell under other name. Before that they made great games Music Master Chopin. Even before that they were known as Nibris and released some crappy DSiWare games and trailer for Wii game called "Sadness". Someone even remember that?

So now you’re going to throw the one company that is producing an Xsex exclusive under the bus?

Look, there’s no need to be upset - The Medium won’t be second rate on Xsex compared to other platforms.

It’s a guaranteed win for Xsex! Make the most of that time.
 

Lethal01

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I'm sure this has been mentioned before but flops mean shit all if you don't have good management and developers to use those teraflops. Whatever the problem is on XSX, the programers couldn't overcome it.

More importantly flops don't mean shit if you are comparing different architectures.
It's so funny seeing so many people going "well we know the Series X is more powerful so it's gotta be a......"
We don't know anything about which is more powerful my a single number.
 

ToadMan

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What the FUD?

They didn't activate SMT on the CPU? Only running at 70% efficiency? How the fuck do you measure that? Good lord the Xbox fanboys are trying their hardest.

Actually there was some talk by MS that during launch period they expected devs to use non SMT mode and 3.8Ghz.

So, if they’re not using SMT they’ll get a cpu clock bump instead. The rationale was that early games would be cross gen targeting Jaguar still so the extra threads wouldn’t help but the higher clock would.

However that article - the Eurogamer interview - implied devs could choose SMT and a lower clock but I guess it’s possible that wasn’t Xbox Ready (tm)....

Now PS5 didn’t have that option - it’s SMT all the time.

AMD claim SMT can add a lot of performance but in benchmarks it varies. Some games run better with SMT enabled and some run worse. A lot of PC users turn it off...

Anyway all that would imply Xsex isn’t at any particular disadvantage without SMT enabled.
 
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