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Analysis Observer: System Redux is Simply Better on PS5 Than Xbox Series X

nikolino840

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Dec 30, 2018
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Ok. But temper expectations on raytracing on pc? I don't follow him . Raytracing is quite phenomal on it from a couple of years.
This are the actual words:

When WIRED read PC Gamer’s headline to Spencer, he said he thought it was “probably right.” “When I think about games where ray-tracing has had a dramatic impact on my experience as a player,” he says, “it’s kind of spotty.”

This is the pc gamer article

 
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assurdum

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Aug 14, 2020
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It makes perfect sense, it's the same logic that led to the Xbox One X.

What actually makes sense, and what you think does or does not make sense is entirely different.
Just to say, Sony won't wait amd because didn't care about their approach on Navi architecture. Sony design their own gpu with their ideas in mind then when was finished given the patent to amd to save money.
 
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//DEVIL//

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May 28, 2014
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Xbox fans just need to think of that golden 12 number in their heads while playing worse versions of multiplats and it will all be ok
Lool. While I favor the PlayStation brand ( I have 2 ps5 consoles at home one brand new sealed and the other I am playing with ) I also do have Xbox series x console and I enjoy game pass ( specially when games are fucking expensive in Canada )
 

diffusionx

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Even if MS’ chip was delivered later than Sony’s, the dev tool shit is such ridiculous cope. Microsoft is a company, literally, of dev tool makers. That is what they do. They make DirectX, they make Visual Studio, they make a platform that software coded with those tools runs on. And we’re not talking about some, mysterious, esoteric hardware - it is a AMD SOC running on a DX12-derived API on a Windows 10 OS. That’s literally the XSX. I doubt the issue is dev tools, and even if it is, it’s a horrible excuse.
 

Dave_at_Home

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It makes perfect sense, it's the same logic that led to the Xbox One X.

What actually makes sense, and what you think does or does not make sense is entirely different.
I'm still waiting for a response on why Series X doesn't have things like infinity cache (possible PS5 may not have it either) or fine-grain clock gating (Series X has fixed clocks). Both things are apart of the feature set of RDNA2 that you'll find on big Navi.

What I'm trying to get across here is it's complete nonsense to say Microsoft waited longer for AMD to finish RDNA2. In fact, Sony co-developed the architecture. Vega architecture probably suffered because of it.
 

assurdum

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This are the actual words:

When WIRED read PC Gamer’s headline to Spencer, he said he thought it was “probably right.” “When I think about games where ray-tracing has had a dramatic impact on my experience as a player,” he says, “it’s kind of spotty.”

This is the pc gamer article

Wow. I have a total different opinion. Especially on the reflection, raytracing is in another level compared the past. Can't disagree more.
 

DeepEnigma

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Dec 3, 2013
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Apparently, and this isn't confirmed but highly likely. The reason Sony doesn't have a fully featured RDNA 2 GPU is because instead of waiting for AMD to finish they took what was available, and then kind of went their own way building the remainder of the feature sets themselves under proprietary methods.

This allowed them to get their devkits out sooner, their tools, developers to get more in tune and comfortable with developing for it. On the Microsoft side it appears they waited until AMD's hardware was entirely done, which like the opposite of Sony explains the reported late arrival of devkits, spec targeted PC's being used and as you can see now software which appears to be having some issues.

Dude, Shut the FUD Up. You’re insufferable.
 

bitbydeath

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Nov 25, 2015
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Even if MS’ chip was delivered later than Sony’s, the dev tool shit is such ridiculous cope. Microsoft is a company, literally, of dev tool makers. That is what they do. They make DirectX, they make Visual Studio, they make a platform that software coded with those tools runs on. And we’re not talking about some, mysterious, esoteric hardware - it is a AMD SOC running on a DX12-derived API on a Windows 10 OS. That’s literally the XSX. I doubt the issue is dev tools, and even if it is, it’s a horrible excuse.

The ‘issue’ if you want to call it that is that DirectX 12 isn’t designed for XSX alone.

This is why it excels at BC over PS5 because PS5 uses an API specifically made for PS5.

DirectX 12 covers all Xbox One variants, all Xbox Series variants and the real stinger, all PC variants.

That won’t change otherwise they will break BC and their GamePass PC model.
 

michaelius

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Jan 5, 2012
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Lots of rumors and very little understanding of an aspect to the PS5 that doesn't translate into easy marketing for Sony. I'm talking about PS5's cache management. Possible single CCX core on PS5 CPU? Something also tells me pound-for-pound the PS5 is more efficient with its compute units, but there will be instances where Series X higher shader count matters (typically at higher resolutions). Things are getting interesting for sure.

Xbox has two CCX? I assumed both will go with Renoir like style lower cache 8 core ccx
 

sircaw

has bigger MS points balance than reaction score.
Jul 3, 2019
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A local pond.
If he really needs a break why doesn't he just ask the admins for a temp? That's much better than getting banned after a meltdown.

i believe he wants to keep appearances up, its some sort of I stood my ground or something complex.

I am not sure what to do, i am beginning to feel sorry for him but he keeps bringing this on himself, post after post of bullshit and now he's back on fud again.
 
Mar 27, 2020
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Uncharted bunghole
i believe he wants to keep appearances up, its some sort of I stood my ground or something complex.

I am not sure what to do, i am beginning to feel sorry for him but he keeps bringing this on himself, post after post of bullshit and now he's back on fud again.

It's the very beginning of a gen. Some people are just going to take things badly and have issues here.

I guess you can always just ignore them. That's pretty helpful but it does make conversations look weird.
 

sircaw

has bigger MS points balance than reaction score.
Jul 3, 2019
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A local pond.
It's the very beginning of a gen. Some people are just going to take things badly and have issues here.

I guess you can always just ignore them. That's pretty helpful but it does make conversations look weird.

We all like jokes but this is now getting a bit to much with him, i am sorry to say, no one can be like this, he is the last fanboy standing.
 
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JonkyDonk

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The ‘issue’ if you want to call it that is that DirectX 12 isn’t designed for XSX alone.

This is why it excels at BC over PS5 because PS5 uses an API specifically made for PS5.

DirectX 12 covers all Xbox One variants, all Xbox Series variants and the real stinger, all PC variants.

That won’t change otherwise they will break BC and their GamePass PC model.
I think there is a lot of truth to this. This is probably the reason why it's easier for devs to add 120hz modes to X1 games with a patch but they have to change their code for a PS5 port to do the same there. So there are advantages to MS' dev environment, but the disadvantage is that it's a 'one size fits all' approach that doesn't allow any one platform to be fully optimised to its strengths. At least not easily. I'm sure first party devs will push the XSX harder in a few years time, but so will first parties on PS5.
 

Stilton Disco

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This really needs an edit to be the other way around.
 

meech

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Aug 4, 2020
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Did we ever get the final say on what the PS5's GPU is? Is it pure RDNA 2, or did Sony take RDNA 2 as the base and make a load of tweaks?

There was something a long while back about how AMD and Sony collaborated on the PS5's GPU, with AMD planning on using the tech as the basis for RDNA 3?
Some people here seriously believe that Sony is as good developing features for gpus as Amd itself, even better?Wonder why they dont sell their own graphic cards.Intel, with all their money and hardware knowledge failed with Larabee.
 

TrebleShot

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Sep 30, 2020
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Let's lay off the low effort console wars bait.
If you thought XSX would be more powerful in practical applications you simply got suckered in by marketing slogans and the magical higher TF count despite everyone and their dog repeating till they are blue in the face that the numbers would mean little.

Its not yoru fault it was MS strategy from the get go when they threw this garbage box together.
 
Mar 27, 2020
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Some people here seriously believe that Sony is as good developing features for gpus as Amd itself, even better?Wonder why they dont sell their own graphic cards.Intel, with all their money and hardware knowledge failed with Larabee.

I'm thinking since Sony has alot of experience with gaming and they also have the Ice Team, it's possible that they are capable of giving AMD suggestions when it comes to how the GPU works with gaming.

I don't think Sony is capable of designing a GPU but they can certainly contribute to the design of one.
 

TriSuit666

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I don’t understand . How the ps5 version better ? Unless it was better optimized on the ps5, there is no way ps5 can beat a XSX in terms of power. Kinda strange . Maybe that’s why digital foundry said there are surprises ?

I can enable ray tracing effects on my 'cruddy' 1660 Super.

Up yours Fomy.
 
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Woot!!!!! Just got my PS5 in the mail. Initial thoughts, its freaking grey! And smaller than i thought it would be.

Edit: NVM its a chunky boy looking at it a litle distance away.
 
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StateofMajora

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So I did some math and actually, the difference in gpu clock speed between the ps5 and XSX is actually greater than the difference in Teraflops between the two machines. *roughly

XSX TF advantage : 17%*
PS5 gpu clockspeed advantage : 21%*

Initially I thought like DynamiteCop! DynamiteCop! and just assumed it was the tools.

However if we think about it, even if the games on both machines are operating at the same resolution, the geometry pipeline and basically everything else is pretty much faster on ps5, meaning it might be that, in the best case the XSX can match ps5, but it makes sense that PS5 is doing better in these initial games.

I'm not saying the results we're seeing won't get better on the XSX side, but it could be the case that Ps5 will actually be a slightly better multiplat machine ; either offering similar performance at the same resolution or, clearly better performance/graphics at a lower resolution.

XSX might show its advantage in its console exclusive games, where games rely more on memory bandwidth or pure floating performance and less on clockspeed. Regardless, we've got more to see from the likes of DF and it's early days for sure, but it's becoming more clear that these machines are much more evenly matched than it appears.

On the bright side, XSX remains much more appealing to me due to its incredible BC implementation, and having skipped the Xbox one generation myself, among other things i'm not too thrilled with on Ps5, but I digress.
 
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How long before dynamite appears and blames tools.
MS is the largest software company in the world... Oh wait, I have to give an excuse: dx12 is not finished yet!

I'm seriously surprised by how things are turning out, the xsx really looks like it has some serious problems (comparatively).

I wish the ps5 was bug free as well, reports of all kind of problems with are worry some too (still wouldn't make me get an Xbox, but I'll definitely wait a while for the ps5).
 
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According to Dirt 5's technical director in this interview 2 days ago, Xbox's SDK/GDK is mostly complete:

David Spingate said:
(Are MS dev tools a bit further behind than Sony's?) I mean I wouldn't say that. That depends on your experience....thinking about tools, everything is coming in a bit hot.

(I am hearing that GDK is basacilly in its infancy and there is a lot of stuff in on the table?)
It's in its infancy, because it's new, but it's not particurly lacking...

(Like barebones?) It's not barebones, they brought a lot, no, most of the tools over from of SDK in terms of familitary and how it works, in fact stability and speed improved a lot on GDK, but yeah, I am happy with it, if anything there is very little small things I would like, I have weekly meetings with XBOX and my account manager get a lot of feedback from me, I am actually very happy with it.

Timestamped:


This kinda debunks the claim that Series X is behind because the tools are behind Sony's....

DynamiteCop! DynamiteCop! what you saying.
 
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RoboFu

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Oct 10, 2017
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I am blown away by the fact that Spiderman runs at native 4k 30 fps with ray traced reflections EVERYWHERE. massive tall skyscrapers. Check. Small grocery stores. Check. Spiderman's Suit. Check. Puddles. Check. Random cars and vans reflecting everything.... like wtf.

And it does that while looking almost a gen ahead of watch dogs and it runs at more than double the resolution. Like how?

Not everything in the reflections are ray traced, But its hard to tell because the devs are very talented. I love what they did in Spider-Man MM and hope other devs take note
 
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MrFunSocks

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You do realize the developer of Observer is the same developer making The Medium which is an Xbox exclusive, right? You actually assume the same developer making an Xbox exclusive is also somehow purposely throwing together a bad port on Series X/S? Don't pull a hamstring with those mental gymnastics.
It doesn't really matter what they're making - this is a port of an old game, without raytracing on xbox, that runs worse than the PS5 version that has ray tracing. It's a dev problem. When games like Watch Dogs, COD, and DMC5 have ray tracing on both and perform the same on both, don't you see something seems off about this? A small budget port of a previous generation game having signficant differences and still running worse?

Unless of course you think that this game is the biggest and most next gen game released so far, that uses both consoles to their potential the most.................which you don't, right?

If anything, this sheds more light on how the Medium is going to turn out - terribly. If they can't even make a previous gen game work with next gen features then what hope do they have making a next gen only game? Any excitement I had for the medium, which was close to zero anyway because yuck, walking simulator, is now gone.
 
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NoMoChokeSJ

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It doesn't really matter what they're making - this is a port of an old game, without raytracing on xbox, that runs worse than the PS5 version that has ray tracing. It's a dev problem. When games like Watch Dogs, COD, and DMC5 have ray tracing on both and perform the same on both, don't you see something seems off about this? A small budget port of a previous generation game having signficant differences and still running worse?

Unless of course you think that this game is the biggest and most next gen game released so far, that uses both consoles to their potential the most.................which you don't, right?

If anything, this sheds more light on how the Medium is going to turn out - terribly. If they can't even make a previous gen game work with next gen features then what hope do they have making a next gen only game? Any excitement I had for the medium, which was close to zero anyway because yuck, walking simulator, is now gone.
I still have hope for the Medium. This is a valid statement even though it'll be dismissed by many. If much more demanding games run with RT at a consistent FPS then the outlier is the software. I don't think that saying this takes anything away from how the PS5 is performing, but it seems like a pretty common sense explanation. Time will be the best decider as developers become more familiar with tools on both sides and they learn how to exploit the strengths of each system.
 
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J_Gamer.exe

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Man, this is becoming a PR disaster for xbox and the 'Worlds most powerful console'. 🤡

A lesson in how not to launch a console. Months of bragging and leading on their fans with marketing just 1 number (TF) which on its own gives only a snapshot of how performance is affected. Nothing to show its power, not even anything graphics wise level with Ps5 nevermind ahead, then losing head to heads left right and centre against what they helped lots of people believe was a weaker console, which actually isn't in many ways.

Being behind with the development tools and having issues.

Seemingly struggling to make the hardware live up to its bragged about paper specs. I wonder if it is indeed hard to fully utilise more cus as cerny said and if things like split ram bandwidth are bottlenecks?

So many xbox fans laughed and dismissed people like the crytek guy who has been vindicated.
 

brownfedora

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But but but....
INFINITY CACHE
VELOCITY ARCHITECTURE
MOST POWERFUL CONSOLE EVER
12 TERAFLOPS
immature tools