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[NX Gamer] Control: Ultimate Edition Console Performance Review (PS5 & Xbox Series X|S)

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
if you ar a playstation fan nx do nice videos...but for technical things we just have df that's it
Just for reference, off the top of my head, DF could not even identify the reason for stuttering on Xbox. They chalked it up to a mysterious bug. NX was actually able to identify the reason -- which was the CPU core being over loaded.

Also, John (whom I like the most from the DF crew) could not even identify the graphical differences in Dirt 5 in 60 FPS mode. According to him, only the 120hz mode had the differences, but that wasn't the case at all.

So, DF crew are also humans -- and they aren't perfect in technical analysis either. NXGamer was able to outdo the experienced DF staff multiple times in his technical analysis.
 
Look at the mirror in the same distance... and come back with the results ;)

The PC RT reflections are higher quality... that is clear... they are still not “correctly” even when there is a different POV in your pics.

:messenger_ok:

PC
whatnowfanboy.gif


p5
gif-2.gif
 
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ethomaz

Banned
Alex confirming XSX and PC show dual reflections correctly. It’s actually ps5 showing a bug with how far apart the 2 reflections are


EtydxaKWYAUqm0p


EtydFKnXAAECNXP



EtydFKoXMAYDP0J
Just look at the first pic... the POV is close to the mirror and the reflection shows the part of the desk at bottom on PC, it that right? With the position the mirror and the POV it should not be possible to show that part of the desk... PS5 seems more accurate imo.

The character reflection I can understand if the POV is way ahead of the character on PC than it is on PS5 because if the camera (POV) is the same as the PS5 then the reflection is too far away on PC.
 
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Looking at the two pics shows... main threads have less load while the co-threads have more load in gameplay.

But it did miss a big detail... not the same place and the gameplay lacks enemies, bullets, etc that should affect CPU... it is not a like to like comparison.

BTW I believe in gameplay when you are for example looking yourself at the reflection of the grass it is no different workload than static Photo mode... the things changes in dynamic gameplay.
this is just to show during photomode cpu usage is not minimal and until someone actually shows like for like its as close as i can show.
I dont have this game.
 

Arias05

Banned
He is really clown lol.
Imagine I trying the same on my mirror at home and have these "correctly" reflections lol

gif.gif


There is nothing "correctly" in PC/Xbox reflections in this game.

You clearly don’t understand what is being discussed. What you show is a bug not dual reflections. That doesn’t happen all the time
 
Your real life mirror or grass windows lol sorry if I was not clear.
How can you say one is accurate or not if you are not comparing with real life reflections?

In fact, I'm not sure that you are really looking for the reflexion(s) we were speaking about. The discussion was more related to these two reflexions, the offset that seems too high between them on PS5 vs PC. It seems in this case, it's more accurate on PC.

zdt8Etl.jpg
 
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Just for reference, off the top of my head, DF could not even identify the reason for stuttering on Xbox. They chalked it up to a mysterious bug. NX was actually able to identify the reason -- which was the CPU core being over loaded.

Also, John (whom I like the most from the DF crew) could not even identify the graphical differences in Dirt 5 in 60 FPS mode. According to him, only the 120hz mode had the differences, but that wasn't the case at all.

So, DF crew are also humans -- and they aren't perfect in technical analysis either. NXGamer was able to outdo the experienced DF staff multiple times in his technical analysis.
nxgamer did no such thing. They offered a hypothesis, but if you look at photo mode on pc the same single core is actually loaded even more then during gameplay which kind of invalidates the argument. Not even including pc's with much better single core performance compared to ps5/xbox can also experience this same stutter. To me it seems like streaming issues. These issues are on pc and xbox (both of which are basically exactly the same size) ps5 seemed to have actually received a little extra love to remove that stutters. My assumption is this could be corrected on pc and xbox if you changed the code to not be able to use platters and only allowed ssd's.
 

Arias05

Banned
In fact, I'm not sure that you are really looking for the reflexion(s) we were speaking about. The discussion was more related to these two reflexions, the offset that seems too high on PS5 vs PC. It seems in this case, it's more accurate on PC.

zdt8Etl.jpg

yup XSX and PC actually has it correct. Seems ps5 is offsetting the reflection overly too much like a foot apart. Again bugs like the pop in reflections that can happen on other systems
 

ethomaz

Banned
In fact, I'm not sure that you are really looking for the reflexion(s) we were speaking about. The discussion was more related to these two reflexions, the offset that seems too high between them on PS5 vs PC. It seems in this case, it's more accurate on PC.

zdt8Etl.jpg
Interesting... there is a pic with the same POV on PC or PS5 to draw a better consclusion? Because these two are in different POV.

BTW the discussion is not about that... if you look at some post and there are inconsistency in the PC distance of the reflections that Bathallia "seems" to think it is the right.
 
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And? I asked something and you posted a unrelated pic? lol
How far defensing something goes.

You're the one constantly spreading fud not me. Don't cry foul when someone points that out.

The issue I saw in the videos with PC/Xbox is that the reflection have lag... it not show sometimes or take too much time to show.

Edit - The PC has the edge in RT reflections quality by a long shot but it indeed looks bugged.

Same issues happens in PC.
It is like people denying the stutter on PC that happens even with high-end CPU, GPU and SSD.

PC and Series X shares the same issues.
 

ethomaz

Banned
You're the one constantly spreading fud not me. Don't cry foul when someone points that out.
I confirm everything I said in these posts you quoted.

It seems to be like this:

PS5

Glass reflection: accurate.
Metal reflection: far.

XSX

Glass reflection: N/A.
Metal reflection: far or glitched away.

PC:

Glass reflection: far.
metal reflection: far.

None of them are accurate.
That is basically what I'm getting from the pics people posted here and Beyond3D.
 
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Arias05

Banned
It seems to be like this:

PS5

Glass reflection: accurate.
Metal reflection: far.

XSX

Glass reflection: N/A.
Metal reflection: far or glitched away.

PC:

Glass reflection: far.
metal reflection: far.

None of them are accurate.

wrong XSX and PC handle glass reflections like ps5. Difference is ps5 is bugged to have it spaces apart further than physically possible. PC will have higher res reflections
 

Bo_Hazem

Banned
I confirm everything I said in these posts you quoted.


That is basically what I'm getting from the pics people posted here and Beyond3D.

Yes, I got what you were trying to say.

wrong XSX and PC handle glass reflections like ps5. Difference is ps5 is bugged to have it spaces apart further than physically possible. PC will have higher res reflections

They are aligned because both are far from the real perspective. It only happens that PS5 has one accurate reflection distance-wise (glass) and the other looks the same (far as on PC/XSX). It's a coding issue, nothing has to do with either HW. And PC having higher res reflections isn't debatable to begin with.
 
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ethomaz

Banned
They are aligned because both are far from the real perspective. It only happens that PS5 has one accurate reflection distance-wise (glass) and the other looks the same (far as on PC/XSX). It's a coding issue, nothing has to do with either HW. And PC having higher res reflections isn't debatable to begin with.
That is probably the best theory about the issue.
Take note Richard... Bo wants a place in your team.

The disparity in PS5 is probably because one reflection is accurate and the other is wrong like PC that have both wrong and Xbox that only has one wrong.
 
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MonarchJT

Banned
Just for reference, off the top of my head, DF could not even identify the reason for stuttering on Xbox. They chalked it up to a mysterious bug. NX was actually able to identify the reason -- which was the CPU core being over loaded.

Also, John (whom I like the most from the DF crew) could not even identify the graphical differences in Dirt 5 in 60 FPS mode. According to him, only the 120hz mode had the differences, but that wasn't the case at all.

So, DF crew are also humans -- and they aren't perfect in technical analysis either. NXGamer was able to outdo the experienced DF staff multiple times in his technical analysis.
if i have to say it all. the reason why I prefer DF is because over the years I have seen the "top" consoles change .. once it was x360 .... then ps4 then xox etc etc there will always be those who complain and disappointed by the results shout at the conspiracy but of one thing I am sure DF even though like everyone else needs the support of users to survive does not seek the forcibly, the consent of the mass. Nxgamer on the other hand seems very very very close to what the Sony community is (and I was kind) of course it will probably because more numerous and therefore in search making them always happy having a good word for their "purchase choice" ..... easy supporters. But it injects doubt into everyone else
 
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Yes, I got what you were trying to say.



They are aligned because both are far from the real perspective. It only happens that PS5 has one accurate reflection distance-wise (glass) and the other looks the same (far as on PC/XSX). It's a coding issue, nothing has to do with either HW. And PC having higher res reflections isn't debatable to begin with.
Watch the nxgamer video at around 2 minutes. Hes actually just closer to the glass on the ps5. On pc 20 seconds later it looks much more correct but slightly different as hes further back from the glass.
 
The game is on PS+ and it takes 10min to get to the room where all these images are coming from so if anyone doubts that the PS5 is putting reflections at the wrong distance (or maybe one at the right distance and one at the wrong distance like Bo is saying) they are free to check and post back.

I have no clue if XSX has broken reflections but I wouldn't try to prove that it does or doesn't as I can't check this myself but I can prove that the PC has both the transparent and opaque reflections despite what this video says.

Also I've been playing for around 10 hours on PC (including messing around with settings) and have yet to see a single stutter (and I'm sick enough to always have Afterburner running with FPS and frame time numbers) so the narrative that the PC stutters too is not right at least not for all hardware.
 

DJ12

Member
if you ar a playstation fan nx do nice videos...but for technical things we just have df that's it
Rofl, seriously you like to argue with actual video evidence because you have convinced yourself df are spot on all the time.

DF do not do any technical things as they don't understand them to talk about them, with maybe John being the exception.

I also guarantee you Alex/Tom saw the xbox glitch with raytracing and didn't use the footage or mention it in his discussions. You see that would be against their agreement with MS.
 

MonarchJT

Banned
Rofl, seriously you like to argue with actual video evidence because you have convinced yourself df are spot on all the time.

DF do not do any technical things as they don't understand them to talk about them, with maybe John being the exception.

I also guarantee you Alex/Tom saw the xbox glitch with raytracing and didn't use the footage or mention it in his discussions. You see that would be against their agreement with MS.
what agreement you talking about ? explain I'm curious
 

Jagz

Member
What incident? genuinely curious - i don't visit reeera unless there is some big drama
He basically called out the double standard in the media, etc, towards Capitol Hill and BLM. He explained how BLM had caused far more damage, more deaths, etc, on Twitter, then further explained himself on Resetera.

PlayStation is very woke and very in support of BLM (your money literally goes towards a company that is run by Resetera like minded people when you buy PlayStation consoles and games) and they will not want anything to do with NXG now because of that Resetera situation. Also, now that he works for IGN, I fear he might backpedal and apologise purely to keep his job.
 

Bo_Hazem

Banned
Watch the nxgamer video at around 2 minutes. Hes actually just closer to the glass on the ps5. On pc 20 seconds later it looks much more correct but slightly different as hes further back from the glass.

Overall, there is a coding issue here, as in one scene I've seen a red gate, while it's actually a blue-ish gate but seems there was an early layer/design that's being reflected, like a conflicting layer.

Let's not forget that Remedy is still a small studio, and when asked for a 1080p@60fps RT mode, here's what the Communications Director of Remedy had to say:

 
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ethomaz

Banned
Also I've been playing for around 10 hours on PC (including messing around with settings) and have yet to see a single stutter (and I'm sick enough to always have Afterburner running with FPS and frame time numbers) so the narrative that the PC stutters too is not right at least not for all hardware.
Not narrative at all.


If you google "Control stutter fix" there is a lot of tutorials and explanations... seems to be related to DX12 because it doesn't stutter on DX11 (I believe you don't have RT too).
 
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Bo_Hazem

Banned
The game is on PS+ and it takes 10min to get to the room where all these images are coming from so if anyone doubts that the PS5 is putting reflections at the wrong distance (or maybe one at the right distance and one at the wrong distance like Bo is saying) they are free to check and post back.

I have no clue if XSX has broken reflections but I wouldn't try to prove that it does or doesn't as I can't check this myself but I can prove that the PC has both the transparent and opaque reflections despite what this video says.

Also I've been playing for around 10 hours on PC (including messing around with settings) and have yet to see a single stutter (and I'm sick enough to always have Afterburner running with FPS and frame time numbers) so the narrative that the PC stutters too is not right at least not for all hardware.

I'll try to make some screenshots and port them here to help conclude things right.
 

recursive

Member
In fairness, it's just being used as benchmark, which is somewhat exciting as we really don't have benchmarking tools (3dmark schores, Cinebench scores, etc) that we have on PC.

Most of these PC benchmarks don't really represent what we experience while playing games either, but they are just tools used to measure performance universally across different hardware.

Obviously, you don't play a game in photo mode. It's just being used as an example of peak performance since the framerate is unlocked in that mode.
In those scenarios the benchmark software remains the same, the hardware is the variable changed. In this case you have 2 different builds of software also on different hardware so the benchmark term is a bit dubious imo. For all we know some intern spent time noodling on xbox photo mode code and no attention was given to the playstation since it probably get as much use as selecting credits from the options menu.

(Shit now DF is going to "benchmark" the credits)
 

FranXico

Member
Hmm interesting seems like an issue with the way PS5 displays the reflection I this case, but seems like there's issues on xbox side with with the weird blinking in and out reflections.
Both consoles have RT issues, but in that instance Xbox had it worse.
 
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onesvenus

Member
They chalked it up to a mysterious bug. NX was actually able to identify the reason -- which was the CPU core being over loaded.
How can that be identified without seeing the load of CPU cores on Xbox?
BTW the discussion is not about that... if you look at some post and there are inconsistency in the PC distance of the reflections that Bathallia "seems" to think it is the right.
The discussion is exactly about that. There are two reflections, from two different reflectiors, one metallic and one glass, an inch away, PS5 is showing both with a wider gap than what really is.
 

Thirty7ven

Banned
if i have to say it all. the reason why I prefer DF is because over the years I have seen the "top" consoles change .. once it was x360 .... then ps4 then xox etc etc there’d will always be those who complain and disappointed by the results(...)

The problem has never been whether one version is better, a lot better or slightly better, or zoom in 16x to see how much better it is.

The problem is how the data is presented, argued and dissected.

When analysis is done by imparcial actors, who do what they do by a pure love for the subject, which in this case is game technology, no narratives are created nor are they exploited.

The problem with DF has and always has been that they constantly show favor towards Xbox. For example if data was presented in pure numbers and side by side image comparison, there would be nothing that could be said.

But if during the 360/PS3 generation, DF constantly made a big deal of small differences, it become apparent how their strategy shifted with PS4/Xbox 1. Suddenly the differences didn’t matter all that much. With X1X and PS4 pro, differences became big again. Pre release, DF wouldn’t stop overrating the potential of Series X and underrating or downright spreading FUD about the PS5 and at the very least dismissing any sort of advantage the PS5 might have in its tech.

When you have a large body of work available, over the course of a decade, patterns shape themselves regardless of your best attempts at controlling the meaning behind them.

Fact is DF’s role should be to celebrate game technology and let us take a sneak peak under the hood, and help the audience make informed decisions if it’s a situation where a member might be undecided on whether to purchase one version over the other.

At the end of the day it comes down to the example of SSR in God of War being a limitation of the hardware, but SSR in Gears 5 is a beautiful rendering technique. See the difference in how the same data is presented with completely different meanings?

I also don’t give a fuck if these guys spend more time on one console over the other, and whether or not they had to clean the “dust off” from console A or B. Why are they sharing that information with us? Because they are amateurs.

It was their choice to bring to light their biases, not the audience.
 
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Loope

Member
Rofl, seriously you like to argue with actual video evidence because you have convinced yourself df are spot on all the time.

DF do not do any technical things as they don't understand them to talk about them, with maybe John being the exception.

I also guarantee you Alex/Tom saw the xbox glitch with raytracing and didn't use the footage or mention it in his discussions. You see that would be against their agreement with MS.
You guarantee? Alright, show the rest of the people here then.
 
In those scenarios the benchmark software remains the same, the hardware is the variable changed. In this case you have 2 different builds of software also on different hardware so the benchmark term is a bit dubious imo. For all we know some intern spent time noodling on xbox photo mode code and no attention was given to the playstation since it probably get as much use as selecting credits from the options menu.

(Shit now DF is going to "benchmark" the credits)
The opposite is actually more likely since ms made it easier to port pc dx12 to xbox. PS requires more work and probably received more attention because of it.
 

DJ12

Member
what agreement you talking about ? explain I'm curious
The agreement heinsenbergfx4 shared with mod of war and wasn't banned for saying it.

Meaning the info is vetted to be accurate.
You guarantee? Alright, show the rest of the people here then.
I don't need to, it's not my information it exists on this forum, you find it.
 
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Arias05

Banned
The game is on PS+ and it takes 10min to get to the room where all these images are coming from so if anyone doubts that the PS5 is putting reflections at the wrong distance (or maybe one at the right distance and one at the wrong distance like Bo is saying) they are free to check and post back.

I have no clue if XSX has broken reflections but I wouldn't try to prove that it does or doesn't as I can't check this myself but I can prove that the PC has both the transparent and opaque reflections despite what this video says.

Also I've been playing for around 10 hours on PC (including messing around with settings) and have yet to see a single stutter (and I'm sick enough to always have Afterburner running with FPS and frame time numbers) so the narrative that the PC stutters too is not right at least not for all hardware.
Alex and myself shown pics of XSX with dual reflections matching pc


Alex confirming XSX and PC show dual reflections correctly. It’s actually ps5 showing a bug with how far apart the 2 reflections are


EtydxaKWYAUqm0p



EtydFKnXAAECNXP




EtydFKoXMAYDP0J
 

MonarchJT

Banned
The agreement heinsenbergfx4 shared with mod of war and wasn't banned for saying it.

Meaning the info is vetted to be accurate.

I don't need to, it's not my information it exists on this forum, you find it.
aaah Heisenbergfx4 he is still not banned ? ok
 

DJ12

Member
Thats a poor job of explaining anything.
OK pop your head in the sand and believe there isn't an agreement in place if it makes you feel better. Make no difference to me to be honest. Just means your going to pipe up more in threads like these when someone says something DF failed to mention.
 

Thirty7ven

Banned
My bet :
MS probably paid for ORI sponsored video.
What i'm curious about :
who paid for COD and Godfall sponsored ones

You seem to be under the impression that what’s being talked about is just “sponsored content”, when what’s being talked about are private conversations where MS officials boast about courting DF to be favorable to Xbox.

Keep missing the point.
 

Bo_Hazem

Banned
It seems to be like this:

PS5

Glass reflection: accurate.
Metal reflection: far.

XSX

Glass reflection: N/A.
Metal reflection: far or glitched away.

PC:

Glass reflection: far.
metal reflection: far.

None of them are accurate.

Ok I just made these now on PS5, seems like the glass reflection is accurate and the metal reflection is indeed far away as stated above:

Control-Ultimate-Edition-20210209190308.png


The metal sheet is around 1" away:

Control-Ultimate-Edition-20210209190225.png


Control-Ultimate-Edition-20210209190126.png


NXGamer NXGamer sorry for pulling your arse around, but thought you might appreciate taking a look at this.
 
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The game is on PS+ and it takes 10min to get to the room where all these images are coming from so if anyone doubts that the PS5 is putting reflections at the wrong distance (or maybe one at the right distance and one at the wrong distance like Bo is saying) they are free to check and post back.

I have no clue if XSX has broken reflections but I wouldn't try to prove that it does or doesn't as I can't check this myself but I can prove that the PC has both the transparent and opaque reflections despite what this video says.

Also I've been playing for around 10 hours on PC (including messing around with settings) and have yet to see a single stutter (and I'm sick enough to always have Afterburner running with FPS and frame time numbers) so the narrative that the PC stutters too is not right at least not for all hardware.

Thats true. You get smoother gameplay on PC with RT than without RT on ps5.

 

Arias05

Banned
Ok I just made these now on PS5, seems like the glass reflection is accurate and the metal reflection is indeed far away as stated above:

Control-Ultimate-Edition-20210209190308.png


The metal sheet is around 1" away:

Control-Ultimate-Edition-20210209190225.png


Control-Ultimate-Edition-20210209190126.png

doesnt look accurate if metal surface is less than 1inch away reflection wouldn’t be a foot apart. Again physics a inch won’t make a reflection go bigger than a inch.
 
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