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Analysis [NX Gamer] AC: Valhalla - XsX vs PS5 - The first REAL head to head battle.

fighterman101

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Come on now. The PS5 drops just as low just after that scene. But there is actually a scene that I find puzzling, where PS5 has a definitive advantage: in the city with plenty of NPCs. PS5 never drops here and it's not about GPU. It's about CPU and both CPUs are virtually identical.



@DeepEnigma is faster than me!

That is because Sony released their dev kits before Microsoft and a lot of developers had more time with it. Part of the reason why that DMC game is getting a late patch on xbox series x for ray tracing I believe.
 

fighterman101

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Ah, that old chestnut.
Am I wrong to say that? Going down the spec sheet Microsoft xbox series x is more powerful than PS5 in virtually everything. Microsoft was late and therefore developers weren't able to utilize it as much. DMC is getting a late patch because Capcom just like almost every developer received the dev kit late. Not to mention this game can still get a patch for xbox series as well as PS5.
 
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sircaw

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A local pond.
Am I wrong to say that. Going down the spec sheet Microsoft xbox series x is more powerful than PS5. Microsoft was late and therefore developers weren't able to utilize it as much.

you are speculating, you have no idea what they have or have not been doing, and one would assume that the brute force of the xboxs faster cpu and GPU and its so-called better memory system would be enough for them to power through that divide and close that gap.

The fact that they are are behind is very worrying.
 

Sejanus

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Am I wrong to say that? Going down the spec sheet Microsoft xbox series x is more powerful than PS5 in virtually everything. Microsoft was late and therefore developers weren't able to utilize it as much. DMC is getting a late patch because Capcom just like almost every developer received the dev kit late.
Wait for same answers magical geometry engine, cache scrabbers an new shit "l3 shared cache", turbo nitro ssd bla bla bla bla bla
 

fighterman101

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you are speculating, you have no idea what they have or have not been doing, and one would assume that the brute force of the xboxs faster cpu and GPU and its so-called better memory system would be enough for them to power through that divide and close that gap.

The fact that they are are behind is very worrying.


Also, that not exactly how game development works. There are games like PUBG/ARK for example that should run fine by your definition on higher end rigs, but since the game's code is a mess it doesn't run as well as it should. Game development kits and when someone gets them plays a big role regarding code quality from the developers.

They will more than likely patch this game just like how the witcher 3 was patched and performed better as time went on. Hardware can only do so much.
 
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megreotsugua

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Am I wrong to say that? Going down the spec sheet Microsoft xbox series x is more powerful than PS5 in virtually everything. Microsoft was late and therefore developers weren't able to utilize it as much. DMC is getting a late patch because Capcom just like almost every developer received the dev kit late. Not to mention this game can still get a patch for xbox series as well as PS5.

PS5 has better CU utilization ratio thanks to its more efficient and coherent caches. Matt Hargett, PS5 ex-engineer, has alluded to that fact many times already on twitter.

Plus PS5's tighter API catering to only one spec machine while xsex api has to be as general and generic to work on PC and xbox.
 
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ABnormal

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Am I wrong to say that? Going down the spec sheet Microsoft xbox series x is more powerful than PS5 in virtually everything.

No, dude. It doesn't work in that overly-simplistic, childish way. You are just referring to the theoretical number of operations (Tflops) possible if the CU number in the gpu could be feed with constant data. But that never happens in a real situation, both because it doesn't make sense (different scenes and actions require different amounts of calculations) and because cache overload with idle data keeps the CUs idle for some time, depending from the quality of coding (and here you can blame developers and dev kits, if you need it) and the efficiency of the system on keeping caches free and so to keep the CUs fed. PS5, having that custom solution (cache scrubbers) to keep cache free from idle code, makes it possible to perform more operations in the CUs in the same amount of time (in addition to the higher GPU frequency, obviously).
So no, it's not necessarily that "on paper" XSX is noticeably more powerful. It's only that of that paper you read only the line that suits your narrative.
 
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fighterman101

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1. PS5 has better CU utilization ratio thanks to its more efficient and coherent caches. Matt Hargett, PS5 ex-engineer, has alluded to that fact many times already on twitter.

2. Plus PS5's tighter API catering to only one spec machine while xsex api has to be as general and generic to work on PC and xbox.

1. Lol, no the CPU on PS5 isn't performing better than Xbox series x.

2. The bolded text proves my point that game development kit and time developers have with it plays a role. You can't brute force your way through bad coding / non efficient coding. Just look how emulation works on PC for example. Multiplatform games are having slight issues on xbox series x right now because of the dev kits being late and developers scrambling (especially now because of covid). This is why the xbox series x is getting late patches. I have no doubt this game will probably get patched on xbox series x soon.
 
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MrFunSocks

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The VRR thing is amazing: basically they take pride in a feature that is not related to the console but to the TV display it is connected to :LOL:
So would you say the same thing about HDR and resolution? They’re both related to the tv display the console is connected to as well lol.

VRR needs to be supported on the console, just like HDR. The Xbox has vrr support, the ps5 does not. The absolute best way to play this game on console is on the Xbox literally because of VRR. It’s hilarious watching people try to downplay VRR just because their console of choice doesn’t have it. VRR is a godsend, one of the biggest and best innovations in video games in a long time. It means devs can give an unlocked frame rate without the game stuttering and tearing all over the place. It means that when these games are BC next gen they’ll instantly get a massive performance boost because while they might settle around even 35fps this gen, they couldn’t then hit 120fps next gen without even getting a patch.

I’m in a pickle because I can’t decide if I should play on my 4K OLED that doesn’t have VRR, or my 1440p VRR monitor.
 
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Iorv3th

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(edit: By “first real test” I just meant that I think DMC5:SE to be a rushed sloppy unoptimized port and Valhalla seems like a more telling benchmark)

From my experience with Valhalla I think it falls in that same category. It doesn't really seem to be using either console particularly well and seems to be just a 'port' so to speak. Lots of bugs and stuff too.
 
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Lysandros

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Am I wrong to say that? Going down the spec sheet Microsoft xbox series x is more powerful than PS5 in virtually everything. Microsoft was late and therefore developers weren't able to utilize it as much. DMC is getting a late patch because Capcom just like almost every developer received the dev kit late. Not to mention this game can still get a patch for xbox series as well as PS5.
Like rasterisation/triangle throughput? Culling? Pixel fill rate? Cache bandwidth? Async compute? GE speed? PS5 has more than 20% advantage in all these areas. Microsoft's spec sheet musy be very incomplete, somewhat conveniently.. As a bonus, XSX lacks cache scrubbers and a 'fully programmable' Geometry Engine.

Edit: There is still the 'small' matter of GPU cache per CU ratio which is more favorable to PS5.
 
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fighterman101

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No, dude. It doesn't work in that overly-simplicistic, childish way. You are just referring to the theoretical number of operations (Tflops) possible if the CU number in the gpu could be feed with constant data. But that never happens in a real situation, both because it doesn't make sense (different scenes and actions require different amounts of calculations) and because cache overload with idle data keeps the CUs idle for some time, depending from the quality of coding (and here you can blame developers and dev kits, if you need it) and the efficiency of the system on keeping caches free and so keeping the CUs fed. PS5, having that custom solution (cache scrubbers) to keep cache free from idle code, makes it possible to perform more operations the CUs in the same amount of time (in addition to the higher GPU frequency, obviously).
So no, it's not necessarily that "on paper" XSX is noticeably more powerful. It's only that of that paper you read only the line that suits your narrative.

So numbers and facts don't count, but what someone alluded to on twitter does. mmm Okay.
 

MisterXDTV

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So would you say the same thing about HDR and resolution? They’re both related to the tv display the console is connected to as well lol.

VRR needs to be supported on the console, just like HDR. The Xbox has vrr support, the ps5 does not. The absolute best way to play this game on console is on the Xbox literally because of VRR. It’s hilarious watching people try to downplay VRR just because their console of choice doesn’t have it. VRR is a godsend, one of the biggest and best innovations in video games in a long time. It means devs can give an unlocked frame rate without the game stuttering and tearing all over the place. It means that when these games are BC next gen they’ll instantly get a massive performance boost because while they might settle around even 35fps this gen, they couldn’t then hit 120fps next gen without even getting a patch.

I’m in a pickle because I can’t decide if I should play on my 4K OLED that doesn’t have VRR, or my 1440p VRR monitor.

This post makes no sense:

If I don't have a 4K TV I can still play the Game NOT BROKEN

If I don't have an HDR TV I can still play the game NOT BROKEN

IF I don't have VRR... Well too bad, I have to buy a new TV....

VRR is not supposed to FIX a problem that SHOULD NEVER BE THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE
 

MrFunSocks

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Like rasterisation/triangle throughput? Culling? Pixel fill rate? Cache bandwidth? Async compute? GE speed? PS5 has more than 20% advantage in all these areas. Microsoft's spec sheet musy be very incomplete, somewhat conveniently.. As a bonus, XSX lacks cache scrubbers and a 'fully programmable' Geometry Engine.
Why do you think the ps5 is better at async compute? The “wider” Xbox gpu is actually better suited to async compute. Culling? How is the ps5 better with culling? Geometry engine speed? What exactly do you mean? How are you measuring geometry engine “speed”?

Explain to me why cache scrubbers are so good? what benefit do they give the ps5? What can this “fully programmable” geometry engine do that the geometry engine in the Xbox can’t do?

i assume you can give me detailed answers on all of those, right? Because surely you wouldn’t just say all that without having a good knowledge on them....
 

Thirty7ven

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Kinda funny to post that "Ubisoft sucks and they can't be used to measure how these consoles perform" fallacy.

When The Division released on PS4 and XBO, the base console was the XBO and they also had marketing rights for the title. It was a huuuge downgrade after the reveal, but still, they results showed exactly what prevailed until the One X and PS4 Pro came. That the PS4 had more power to run games at 1080p. It was noticeable. There was no reconstruction technique, nothing. Just base resolution. It's actually by Ubi/Massive, but still. It worked back then but now it doesn't right? lol

Ubisoft had no trouble making games on PS4 run better than X1 day one and they had no trouble getting X1X games running better than PS4 pro day 1. Their track record is consistent but yet we must now change history and entertain the idea that the king of console hardware and lord of Direct X... wasn’t ready.

It’s funny.
 

ABnormal

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It's very funny that you picked the very only blameworthy (albeit mathematically correct) ps4 statement in an entire gen of lies and secret sauces from MS. Do you want me to make a list, just to help you remember?

Till now, Cerny never stated something that was not real.

And if you like facts, at the moment facts are showing that ps5 is more efficient in a big AAA multiplatform title. But maybe it's just a coincidence.
 

MrFunSocks

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This post makes no sense:

If I don't have a 4K TV I can still play the Game NOT BROKEN

If I don't have an HDR TV I can still play the game NOT BROKEN

IF I don't have VRR... Well too bad, I have to buy a new TV....

VRR is not supposed to FIX a problem that SHOULD NEVER BE THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE
Lol average frame rate of 59.9fps with like 0.01% tearing is “broken” now? Lol

I don’t understand why people think the Xbox version is some sort of tearing me like GT5 was, but the similarly tearing ps5 version is superior? They both tear, but the PS5 version also drops frames. On the Xbox you can mitigate the tearing. on the ps5 you can’t.

VRR is great because it allows games to run higher than 30 but below 60. Games like God of war 3 ran terribly because the frame rate sat around 45fps during fights. With VRR that’s fine, plays great. Without VRR it’s all stuttery.

VRR isn’t a crutch like you think it is, it’s literally better for games and developers. It allows them to push the hardware more as they don’t have to worry about locking the frame rate.
 
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That's pretty interesting.

While Microsoft has promised that the Scorpio will be able to achieve native 4K gaming with ‘just’ 6 teraflops, Mark Cerny believes that rendering in native 4K will require at least 8 teraflops of computing power. Although this is merely a “personal estimate” from Cerny, it’s an interesting one at the least.

But he's wrong about the 8TFs thing. Even 12TFs doesn't get you a native 4K in all games hence why dynamic resolution is used in games like AC for example.
 
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MisterXDTV

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Lol average frame rate of 59.9fps with like 0.01% tearing is “broken” now? Lol

I don’t understand why people think the Xbox version is some sort of tearing me like GT5 was, but the similarly tearing ps5 version is superior? They both tear, but the PS5 version also drops frames. On the Xbox you can mitigate the tearing. on the ps5 you can’t.

VRR is great because it allows games to run higher than 30 but below 60. Games like God of war 3 ran terribly because the frame rate sat around 45fps during fights. With VRR that’s fine, plays great. Without VRR it’s all stuttery.

VRR isn’t a crutch like you think it is, it’s literally better for games and developers. It allows them to push the hardware more as they don’t have to worry about locking the frame rate.

Are you kidding me? The Xbox Series X has nearly 5 TIMES the tearing of the PS5 version. That's patetic in this day and age

That's a game breaking deal...
 
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Skifi28

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So numbers and facts don't count, but what someone alluded to on twitter does. mmm Okay.

Numbers are great, if you know which to use. Games aren't just floating point operations, therefore the TF number that has become so popular these days hardly shows you the entire picture of the GPU side of things. And that's just one part of the system. There's so much going on inside the consoles we have absolutely no idea about and we'll probably never know, but using 5-6 buzzwords is of course much easier for inciting wars.
 
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MrFunSocks

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He was right, 8 TF was needed for 4K on last-gen games. Xbox One X had 6 and struggled to hit native 2160p constantly
If 8TF was needed then there would not be a single native 4K game on the One X, but there are plenty. He was wrong, and literally the only reason he said that was because he knew his console couldn’t do native 4K so he was trying to downplay the competition. That’s what PR does.
 

ABnormal

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But he's wrong about the 8TFs thing. Even 12TFs doesn't get you a native 4K in all games hence why dynamic resolution is used in games like AC for example.

No, he is absolutely correct (how many pixels with how much processing power is a mathematical, predictable thing. He was just speaking about 4k with the level of detail and rendering of the current gen).

With next gen requested level of graphics, reaching 4k is much more demanding.
 

fighterman101

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He was right, 8 TF was needed for 4K on last-gen games. Xbox One X had 6 and struggled to hit native 2160p constantly
A lot of games hit 4k natively very well and constantly on xbox one x. It only dips in resolution for more consistent FPS which is more of a cpu bottle neck than a GPU issue. Meaning 6tf was more than enough. Also, it kind of proves this Assassin's creed is not well optimized for next gen in general like most early games for a generation.

Time will tell and if you don't believe me look at the PS3. It has beyond terrible ports for the first year, but over time the games were equal to 360 and sometimes even surpassed it.
 
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MrFunSocks

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Are you kidding me? The Xbox Series X has nearly 5 TIMES the tearing of the PS5 version. That's patetic in this day and age

That's a game breaking deal...

5x nothing is still nothing. The tearing occurs in the top 40 lines of a >2000 line high image.

Sorry but anyone calling <0.001% tearing in a game “game breaking” must literally think that 99.99% of games on consoles up until this point in time as completely unplayable and broken. It’s hyperbole of the highest order.

You’re showing your bias here. I bet you were one of the people that claimed the PS4 Pro version of battlefront was superior because the Xbox version running at 2x the resolution dropped 4 frames in DFs10 minute video lol.
 
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Thirty7ven

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So would you say the same thing about HDR and resolution? They’re both related to the tv display the console is connected to as well lol.

VRR needs to be supported on the console, just like HDR. The Xbox has vrr support, the ps5 does not. The absolute best way to play this game on console is on the Xbox literally because of VRR.

There’s no need for VRR on the PS5 version and the PS5 does support VRR at the hardware level so that’s just a matter of time.

You really need this don’t you? There will be other face offs, I’m sure XSX will get Ws more often than Ls.
 

MrFunSocks

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There’s no need for VRR on the PS5 version and the PS5 does support VRR at the hardware level so that’s just a matter of time.

You really need this don’t you? There will be other face offs, I’m sure XSX will get Ws more often than Ls.
There’s no *need* for VRR on the Xbox version either. Both versions tear on a minuscule amount of frames. The frame rate is essentially locked 60 on both versions.

The PS5 hardware might be capable of VRR, so where is it? If it’s so simple then where is it? How could they not get it working after 2+ years of development on the OS?
 
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There’s no *need* for VRR on the Xbox version either. Both versions tear on a minuscule amount of frames. The frame rate is essentially locked 60 on both versions.

The PS5 hardware might be capable of VRR, so where is it? If it’s so simple then where is it? How could they not get it working after 2+ years of development on the OS?
Are you sure you're going to be okay?
 
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Hold your horses guys, this only the start of the new generation.
We must see more games

True there's Watchdogs and CoD coming up next.

Edit: With WatchDogs I believe the settings are the same so all thats left is FPS and tnt dynamic resolution. Hopefully it gives us a good idea of each systems strengths.
 
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MrFunSocks

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True there's Watchdogs and CoD coming up next.

Edit: With WatchDogs I believe the settings are the same so all thats left is FPS and tnt dynamic resolution. Hopefully it gives us a good idea of each systems strengths.
Why do people think that cross generation multiplatform games are going to be utilising each piece of hardware to their maximum?

You’re not going to see big differences in the first wave of games. Do you believe that the load times being almost identical across both consoles at the moment shows that the PS5 SSD can’t load faster than the Xbox’s? I would hope not.

Launch and first year games are always just previous gen games running in higher resolution/frame rate courtesy of brute force. Nothing more.
 
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fighterman101

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How long will that last though?

Good question, I think it will be about a year to be honest. However, we will start seeing gradual improvement for xbox series x over ps5. For example, Assassin's creed will get a patch for all platforms more than likely. The fact the game can't run 4k/60 on RTX 3090 is very telling how rushed and unoptimized the game is.

 
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Good question, I think it will be about a year to be honest. However, we will start seeing gradual improvement for xbox series x over ps5. For example, Assassin's creed will get a patch for all platforms. The fact the game can't run 4k/60 on RTX 3090 is very telling how rushed the game is and unoptimized it is.

Im just wondering if the improvements will be noticeable since it's already so close and the PS5 will get better with time.
 
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