• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

NPD June: #1 Switch, #2 Xbox, #3 Playstation 5, Ratchet #1 in SW

kingfey

Banned
Jul 6, 2021
3,510
4,564
480
its almost like you are proud or something.
I was responding to your sarcastic comment.

In reality, people will buy what they like. People here might fight about sales, but at end of the day, casuals will rule it. The one who offers cheaper alternative to gaming will win. Not everyone is rich, or have rich uncle.
 

YukiOnna

Member
May 17, 2019
4,027
4,393
450
Canada
Scarlet Nexus hit top 5 on US NPD!? So happy to see that. Felt like a sleeper hit, but maybe word of mouth carried it.
 

Topher

Gold Member
Sep 25, 2020
5,336
17,311
655
Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Xbox hit it out the park this generation.

The generation is over already?

Time Flies Wow GIF by Britannia on EPIX
 
  • LOL
Reactions: Hobbygaming

ethomaz

is mad because DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
Mar 19, 2013
43,023
46,469
1,310
39
Brazil
What was the last metric for digital sales on Playstation? Around 60/40 digital/physical split? On Xbox I am not sure but it will be higher simply because since Xbox One S, Microsoft was consistently pushing digital.

With the recent reports of the general 75/25% between digital/physical, retail charts are becoming more and more useless.
Last ratio for PlayStation was 79% digital / 21% physical as last Q.

BTW this NPD reports includes digital.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: arvfab

ethomaz

is mad because DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
Mar 19, 2013
43,023
46,469
1,310
39
Brazil
I don't understand why MS can manufacture more Series X than Sony can PS5, it's not really making much sense.
They probably are not.

Somy has more market to supply and US receive a lower allocation than it needs.

Overall Sony is probably producing like twice the amount of PS5 than MS produce Series X… well that is based in the TSMC allocation for previous quarters.
 

kingfey

Banned
Jul 6, 2021
3,510
4,564
480
They probably are not.

Somy has more market to supply and US receive a lower allocation than it needs.

Overall Sony is probably producing like twice the amount of PS5 than MS produce Series X… well that is based in the TSMC allocation for previous quarters.
They could have ordered more. We have no idea how much they have now.

That wouldnt matter for xbox though. They are transitioning to a much bigger space. They now got the steam valve, which you can use it to play their games on steam, or gamepass pc games. If they do partnership with Valve, They will reach bigger base. Even with that, their games are still day1 on steam, and steam valve.

I wonder, how sony will combat that? Doing day1 on steam, means reaching bigger audience.
 
  • LOL
Reactions: arvfab

ethomaz

is mad because DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
Mar 19, 2013
43,023
46,469
1,310
39
Brazil
They could have ordered more. We have no idea how much they have now.

That wouldnt matter for xbox though. They are transitioning to a much bigger space. They now got the steam valve, which you can use it to play their games on steam, or gamepass pc games. If they do partnership with Valve, They will reach bigger base. Even with that, their games are still day1 on steam, and steam valve.

I wonder, how sony will combat that? Doing day1 on steam, means reaching bigger audience.
What that has even to do with consoles sales and TSMC production allocation?
Valve? Steam? PC Games?
 
Last edited:

Kenshin775

Member
Oct 16, 2019
199
281
275
Gamepass, good e3, cheaper console, fifa being on gamepass, battle field being on gamepass, Halo and alot of things, ps5 doesn't have.

The only real weapon ps5 has against Xbox, its ps4 exclusive. Other than that, nothing really. VR though, might give them edge. It depends on how Sony utilizes it.

People here might shit on subscription services, but real world doesn't care. People will go, where there is games. And gamepass does that for them. Especially, since its 3 big mac's price in the USA. That price will give you 475+ games. Something we dreamed of having it, as kids.

disagree that PS5 doesnt have anything because racthet, Demon's Soul and Returnal are getting high praise.

but to the rest of you're point you are absolutely right. most people don't give a flying fuck about brand new games like people on gaming forums do. For the vast majority of people almost every game they play on Gamepass is brand new to them. With Gamepass they see a Netflix for videogames that you can play anywhere and think holy shit this is cool. That's why it sounds like people are advertising for Gamepass whenever they talk about. Eventually people will play through all the games they want and lose interest but its not there yet. And after MS E3 the backlogs are going to get even bigger. so they will probably never lose interest as long as MS keeps pushing out first and third party content.
 

assurdum

Gold Member
Aug 14, 2020
4,286
7,376
670
They could have ordered more. We have no idea how much they have now.

That wouldnt matter for xbox though. They are transitioning to a much bigger space. They now got the steam valve, which you can use it to play their games on steam, or gamepass pc games. If they do partnership with Valve, They will reach bigger base. Even with that, their games are still day1 on steam, and steam valve.

I wonder, how sony will combat that? Doing day1 on steam, means reaching bigger audience.
From what we know ps5 sell a lot more units WW than series X probably close to a 2:1 ratio. Both are out of the stock. How Sony can restock more the US compared MS? If I have to use the logic, for MS is more easy replace the units in the US territory. I guess.
 
Last edited:

kingfey

Banned
Jul 6, 2021
3,510
4,564
480
What that has even to do with consoles sales and TSMC production allocation?
Valve? Steam? PC Games?
Xbox games being on pc, impacts their console sales. If halo is coming to steam day1, do you want to buy an xbox? not really. While on sony side, you have to, since their games aren't on pc. This hugely impacts console sales.

As for tsmc, its being impacted by last gen sales. Due to xbox doing 51m, they purchased enough to be safe. But the demand seems to be insane for it, this gen. While ps4 was 116m, so sony ordered more to cover the demand.

Valve matters here, because Xbox is enjoying those sales money. If Sony tries to follow that suite, their ps5 console might get impacted like the xbox console. And if they dont, they will leave huge player base for xbox. Especially, since valve is doing their console handle held, and is open space, which means gamepass pc.
 

ethomaz

is mad because DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
Mar 19, 2013
43,023
46,469
1,310
39
Brazil
Xbox games being on pc, impacts their console sales. If halo is coming to steam day1, do you want to buy an xbox? not really. While on sony side, you have to, since their games aren't on pc. This hugely impacts console sales.

As for tsmc, its being impacted by last gen sales. Due to xbox doing 51m, they purchased enough to be safe. But the demand seems to be insane for it, this gen. While ps4 was 116m, so sony ordered more to cover the demand.

Valve matters here, because Xbox is enjoying those sales money. If Sony tries to follow that suite, their ps5 console might get impacted like the xbox console. And if they dont, they will leave huge player base for xbox. Especially, since valve is doing their console handle held, and is open space, which means gamepass pc.
Man that has nothing to do with production allocation.

TSMC plans for 7nm is to reach 120k wafers for consoles in 2021... 80k are for Sony and 40k are for MS.
With these 80k wafers Sony plans to produce about 18 million chips in 2021.

From the 40k wafers allocated to MS they will use some for Series X and others to Series S.... so even in the best scenario here (all to Series X) you are looking at less 9 million Series X chips produced in 2021.

Software, steam, PC, Gamepass, etc sales has no relation with how much TSMC will produce in 2021.
 
Last edited:

kingfey

Banned
Jul 6, 2021
3,510
4,564
480
From what we know ps5 sell a lot more units WW than series X probably close to a 2:1 ratio. Both are out of the stock. How Sony can restock more the US compared MS? If I have to use the logic, for MS is more easy replace the units in the US territory. I guess.
Nah, ps5 will outsell xbox in the US. Pc is the reason. Xbox games are day1 on steam. Pc players wont buy xbox console. So that will have negative impact on the console sales.
 

Hawke502

Member
Jun 29, 2019
319
668
360
From what we know ps5 sell a lot more units WW than series X probably close to a 2:1 ratio. Both are out of the stock. How Sony can restock more the US compared MS? If I have to use the logic, for MS is more easy replace the units in the US territory. I guess.
Xcloud blades. MS just transitioned from One S to Series X on their Xcloud servers.
 

kingfey

Banned
Jul 6, 2021
3,510
4,564
480
Man that has nothing to do with production allocation.

TSMC plans for 7nm is to reach 120k wafers for consoles in 2021... 80k are for Sony and 40k are for MS.
With these 80k wafers Sony plans to produce about 18 million chips in 2021.

From the 40k wafers allocated to MS they will use some for Series X and others to Series S.... so even in the best scenario here (all to Series X) you are looking at less 9 million Series X chips produced in 2021.
In order to get these waivers, you need to do planning. Both companies are using the data of last gen users. So they buy waivers according to those numbers. In this case, xbox sold half ps4 last gen. Its why the 80k to 40k order.

MS wont order more waivers like what Sony did. They dont have the same output as last gen.
 

ethomaz

is mad because DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
Mar 19, 2013
43,023
46,469
1,310
39
Brazil
In order to get these waivers, you need to do planning. Both companies are using the data of last gen users. So they buy waivers according to those numbers. In this case, xbox sold half ps4 last gen. Its why the 80k to 40k order.

MS wont order more waivers like what Sony did. They dont have the same output as last gen.
Both companies wanted more wafers... TSMC doesn't have them lol
TSMC is already in the limit of the capacity for 7nm production... unless they build a new fab or something like... to you understand better AMD full TSMC 7nm allocation for 2021 is 150k wafers... Sony took 80k, MS took 40k and AMD left with only 30k... TSMC still supplies Apple and nVidia with 7nm.

There is a reason why we are living a scarce in silicon chips in the industry... everybody wants more... TSMC can't supply anything more.

That is why Apple already opened the wallet to pre allocate 80% of the future TSMC 5nm production.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Thirty7ven

assurdum

Gold Member
Aug 14, 2020
4,286
7,376
670
Xcloud blades. MS just transitioned from One S to Series X on their Xcloud servers.
Come on, what absurdity. Didn't the PS4 sold the double of the Xbox one? Why xcloud server should lead more sales for the series X?
 
Last edited:

kingfey

Banned
Jul 6, 2021
3,510
4,564
480
disagree that PS5 doesnt have anything because racthet, Demon's Soul and Returnal are getting high praise.

but to the rest of you're point you are absolutely right. most people don't give a flying fuck about brand new games like people on gaming forums do. For the vast majority of people almost every game they play on Gamepass is brand new to them. With Gamepass they see a Netflix for videogames that you can play anywhere and think holy shit this is cool. That's why it sounds like people are advertising for Gamepass whenever they talk about. Eventually people will play through all the games they want and lose interest but its not there yet. And after MS E3 the backlogs are going to get even bigger. so they will probably never lose interest as long as MS keeps pushing out first and third party content.
Your first point only applies to people who like that aspect of games. Returnal doesnt have story or progression. It focuses more on your skills. This type of games, dont attract alot of people. Same for demons souls.

Ratchet, graphics will sell the game. Its fun game (not my cup of tea though). People might buy it.

Other than, I agree what you said.
 

Stuart360

Member
Sep 9, 2018
10,781
26,444
770
Come on, what absurdity. Didn't the PS4 sold the double of the Xbox one? Why xcloud server should lead more sales for the series X?
He means a percentage of units were going towards the server blades for Xcloud. Microsoft announced last month that the blades were fully finished now, so more consoles for gamers.
 
Last edited:

kingfey

Banned
Jul 6, 2021
3,510
4,564
480
Both companies wanted more wafers... TSMC doesn't have them lol
TSMC is already in the limit of the capacity for 7nm production... unless they build a new fab or something like... to you understand better AMD full TSMC 7nm allocation for 2021 is 150k wafers... Sony took 80k, MS took 40k and AMD left with only 30k... TSMC still supplies Apple and nVidia with 7nm.
If that is the case, then you are right.

I assumed it was from the last gen output, from the 80k/40k split.
 

kingfey

Banned
Jul 6, 2021
3,510
4,564
480
He means a percentage of units were going towards the server blades for Xcloud. Microsoft announced last month that the baldes were fully finished now, so more consoles for gamers.
You are discounting one thing. PC steam would hinder the console sales. People who have good pc, wont buy xbox, and that means less console sales. from the pc community. But more customers for xbox, as that will lead to more game sales.
 

ethomaz

is mad because DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
Mar 19, 2013
43,023
46,469
1,310
39
Brazil
If that is the case, then you are right.

I assumed it was from the last gen output, from the 80k/40k split.
I was being a bit optimistic with failures btw.
If we take an actual reasonable yields then Sony will reach around 16 million chips in 2021 with 80k wafers.
MS using the same estimate with 30k wafers for Series X will be around 5.25 million chips in 2021... 10k wafers for Series S will reach around 3.2 million chips in 2021.

All we can hope is to production increase in 2022.
By the rumors Sony is trying to migrate to TSMC 6nm that can use the same warfer/production line of TSMC 7nm with a better density so the chip will be smaller and so producing more from warfer... that means with the same 80k wafers in 2022 they can reach around 18-20 million chips... but that is speculation for 2022.
 
Last edited:

eastcoastkody

Member
Nov 5, 2016
1,297
1,410
510
Xbox games being on pc, impacts their console sales. If halo is coming to steam day1, do you want to buy an xbox? not really. While on sony side, you have to, since their games aren't on pc. This hugely impacts console sales.

As for tsmc, its being impacted by last gen sales. Due to xbox doing 51m, they purchased enough to be safe. But the demand seems to be insane for it, this gen. While ps4 was 116m, so sony ordered more to cover the demand.

Valve matters here, because Xbox is enjoying those sales money. If Sony tries to follow that suite, their ps5 console might get impacted like the xbox console. And if they dont, they will leave huge player base for xbox. Especially, since valve is doing their console handle held, and is open space, which means gamepass pc.
assuming everyone has a PC? this isn't 2004
 

Hawke502

Member
Jun 29, 2019
319
668
360
Come on, what absurdity. Didn't the PS4 sold the double of the Xbox one? Why xcloud server should lead more sales for the series X?
I don't think you got what i was saying, MS couldn't stock the US market as fast as Sony because they were stocking their xcloud serves with Series X, now that they are done with it (or almost), they are able to send more consoles to the market.
 

Topher

Gold Member
Sep 25, 2020
5,336
17,311
655
Atlanta, Georgia, USA
I don't think you got what i was saying, MS couldn't stock the US market as fast as Sony because they were stocking their xcloud serves with Series X, now that they are done with it (or almost), they are able to send more consoles to the market.

That's a theory that Jez Corden has been promoting, but I have hard time believing Microsoft is shorting retail stock by hundreds of thousands every week in favor of xCloud. I guess it is possible. I just find it unlikely.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SlimySnake

yazenov

Member
Dec 12, 2020
395
1,412
355
But but...Xbox has no games...

It only proves that releasing exclusive games (like Rift Apart) in times when people will still "out of stock" your hardware without it is literally pointless because you can't boost sales of your console more...


Such a dumb take. You know that the end goal is to sell software, not hardware right? Thats the reason why Nintendo is so profitable.

Good thing you don't run a company.
 

Stuart360

Member
Sep 9, 2018
10,781
26,444
770
That's a theory that Jez Corden has been promoting, but I have hard time believing Microsoft is shorting retail stock by hundreds of thousands every week in favor of xCloud. I guess it is possible. I just find it unlikely.
Er its been known for months that they were replacing the XB1 server blades with XSX, and Phil said last month that they had just finished replacing the blades.
Its not some conspiracy theory.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bladed Thesis

Hawke502

Member
Jun 29, 2019
319
668
360
That's a theory that Jez Corden has been promoting, but I have hard time believing Microsoft is shorting retail stock by hundreds of thousands every week in favor of xCloud. I guess it is possible. I just find it unlikely.
We are on a worldwide shortage of chips, and they have just upgraded their servers to run on Series X. This is an obvius conclusion for me, now this month they had more stock, wich is another evidence.
 

kingfey

Banned
Jul 6, 2021
3,510
4,564
480
I was being a bit optimistic with failures btw.
If we take an actual reasonable yields then Sony will reach around 16 million chips in 2021 with 80k wafers.
MS using the same estimate with 30k wafers for Series X will be around 5.25 million chips in 2021... 10k wafers for Series S will reach around 3.2 million chips in 2021.

All we can hope is to production increase in 2022.
By the rumors Sony is trying to migrate to TSMC 6nm that can use the same warfer/production line of TSMC 7nm with a better density so the chip will be smaller and so producing more from warfer... that means with the same 80k wafers in 2022 they can reach around 18-20 million chips... but that is speculation for 2022.
With valve joining the console part, And Nintendo rumored new console, its gonna be uphill battle securing those chips.
 

kingfey

Banned
Jul 6, 2021
3,510
4,564
480
assuming everyone has a PC? this isn't 2004
Last time i checked, cheap prebuilt pc gaming was 500$. 120fps at 1080p. So yes, everyone has a pc gaming. Its the console, which everyone doesnt have it. Since they are constrained by these companies who produce them.
 

prinz_valium

Member
Oct 15, 2013
3,172
3,534
1,005
That's a theory that Jez Corden has been promoting, but I have hard time believing Microsoft is shorting retail stock by hundreds of thousands every week in favor of xCloud. I guess it is possible. I just find it unlikely.
Hard to estimate. It's some consoles, but how many?

Generally, cloud is always bigger scale than any consumer sales, but this isn't a general purpose cloud. It's Xbox server blades to stream Xbox games. So a much smaller scale.
 

ethomaz

is mad because DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
Mar 19, 2013
43,023
46,469
1,310
39
Brazil
With valve joining the console part, And Nintendo rumored new console, its gonna be uphill battle securing those chips.
I'm not sure which parts valve are using but I believe it is standard mobile AMD chips? If so then they are probably using GlobalFoundry than TSMC.

Nintendo indeed uses TSMC but it is a old node I believe... 16nm.
To be fair early Switch sales were all using chips already produced and stocked by nVidia... I don't know if that changed with Tegra Makino.
 
Last edited:

kingfey

Banned
Jul 6, 2021
3,510
4,564
480
I'm not sure which parts valve are using but I believe it is standard mobile AMD chips? If so then they are probably using GlobalFoundry than TSMC.

Nintendo indeed uses TSMC but it is a old node I believe... 16nm.
Valve is doing pc handle held, so i doubt they are going to use that. especially, since their console can do high end graphic.
 

Topher

Gold Member
Sep 25, 2020
5,336
17,311
655
Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Er its been known for months that they were replacing the XB1 server blades with XSX, and Phil said last month that they had just finished replacing the blades.
Its not some conspiracy theory.

Good, cuz that's not what I said. Microsoft never stated how many units were being allocated to xCloud versus retail. Saying that is the reason for the difference between PS5 and XSX is simply a theory.

We are on a worldwide shortage of chips, and they have just upgraded their servers to run on Series X. This is an obvius conclusion for me, now this month they had more stock, wich is another evidence.

Sucks we don't get to see the actual numbers. As it is, we are just guessing. Obviously Xbox is going to get some bump if units are no longer allocated to datacenters, but how much of a bump we don't know.
 

mckmas8808

Ah. Peace and quiet. #ADayWithoutAWoman
May 24, 2005
48,325
15,703
2,000
Damn, Phil coming through in a clutch. And May technically isnt even summer yet which is when Phil said that the stock will be readily available.

The next few months are going to be very interesting. I can easily see Xbox beating out Sony every month until November if what Phil says is true.

As much as i would like to blame MLB The Show going to xbox for free or many of the other cock ups by Sony in the last few months, I dont think this is on Jim Ryan. The PS5 is still outselling the PS4 when launch aligned.

Even though it wasn't Jim Ryan's call, putting MLB The Show on Xbox is getting Sony even MORE money.
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: Thirty7ven