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[Henry Panic]

So you’re saying the XSS sold more? Then I agree.

Even if the reason was only because it’s easier to find (which I don’t buy as an argument, you don’t buy something just because it’s available) it still justifies the strategy - you can’t sell what you can’t produce.

You don't buy it because you're not thinking logically.

If there isn't a product on the shelf and the other product was available for two years, why does it confuse you the S sold more?

You're acting like one was always selling well but just hit a stock snag, so people waited. That's not what happened, what happened is the audience who wanted the S had been buying it consistently for now over two years. So even the people who don't want that console and are waiting for Series X are being completely outpaced.

Yes it being easier to find is the reason, but you created a poor justification to pretend it's not. Just because it's easier to find doesn't means all the sales are from people who got impatient and wouldn't buy the stronger console. It's been over two years man.

 

[Chukhopops]

You don't buy it because you're not thinking logically.

If there isn't a product on the shelf and the other product was available for two years, why does it confuse you the S sold more?

You're acting like one was always selling well but just hit a stock snag, so people waited. That's not what happened, what happened is the audience who wanted the S had been buying it consistently for now over two years. So even the people who don't want that console and are waiting for Series X are being completely outpaced.

Yes it being easier to find is the reason, but you created a poor justification to pretend it's not. Just because it's easier to find doesn't means all the sales are from people who got impatient and wouldn't buy the stronger console. It's been over two years man.

Im not sure if there is an issue with which post you wanted to quote but to clarify my position:
- I do believe that being more available has helped the XSS sell more and I agree with your point on that;
- I do not believe that people who wanted another console bought an XSS because they couldn’t find the machine they wanted.

The latter is an argument you see all the time on XSS threads and it simply makes no sense to me, if you want to buy a PS5 you’re going to buy an XSS and then do what exactly? You won’t be able to use your library or buy the games you wanted to play to begin with. If you want an XSX why would you buy an XSS since up to recently every MS exclusive game was cross-gen?

That’s why I never found any logic in this argument.

 

[Riky]

The two people I know personally who have a Series S didn't have an Xbox One and had no intention of buying a Series X or PS5. They seem more than happy with what they got for the money.
Both subscribed to Gamepass. I presume there are many more people like them who wanted next gen features minus the resolution for £249 or less.

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

I don’t think so. I think they should have done a digital version for $399 like Sony did.

This but I can see why they done it. Another option would have been an HDMI+controller bundle alongside Series X to proliferate Game Pass streaming to as many TV’s as possible.

 

[Hurahn7]

Yes it was a good idea. Thinking that we're getting "The Matrix Awakens" caliber games is a falsehood. Sure, the developers with the absolute best and most clever programmers will absolutely wow us, but the majority of developers don't have those abilities. Realistically all game development is at least two years behind schedule because they had to worry about last gen. That's time they'll never get back. For the most part, we'll be playing better versions of games we've always played with a few genre busting standouts.

 

[simpatico]

My freshman son and all his friends have a Series S. I think that's a big part of the target audience. For kids it's an easier sell to get parents to buy you a console. Performance seems fine. I don't play it, but checking in on him I never see anything terrible. But I survived the PS3 era, when 25fps, 680p and non stop screen tearing was status quo for big name AAA releases.

 

[Henry Panic]

Im not sure if there is an issue with which post you wanted to quote but to clarify my position:
- I do believe that being more available has helped the XSS sell more and I agree with your point on that;
- I do not believe that people who wanted another console bought an XSS because they couldn’t find the machine they wanted.

The latter is an argument you see all the time on XSS threads and it simply makes no sense to me, if you want to buy a PS5 you’re going to buy an XSS and then do what exactly? You won’t be able to use your library or buy the games you wanted to play to begin with. If you want an XSX why would you buy an XSS since up to recently every MS exclusive game was cross-gen?

That’s why I never found any logic in this argument.

Ok, the confusion was reading your post again, you thought that was my argument.

I agree with you that it's a claim that doesn't make sense. I've seen it going around many gaming communities.

 

[Hobbygaming]

Some developers might start skipping Xbox versions because of the Xbox Series X + Xbox Series S launch requirement.

We can assume that the S is the reason for technical issues here since PS5 and the XSX are similar in capabilities

 

[Chukhopops]

Some developers might start skipping Xbox versions because of the Xbox Series X + Xbox Series S launch requirement.

We can assume that the S is the reason for technical issues here since PS5 and the XSX are similar in capabilities

The issue is about DX12 and the Xbox SDK, the game on PC has minimum specs way below XSS even after the changes:

Not sure you can assume anything about « developers starting to skip Xbox » from that story without stretching a lot.

 

[Jesb]

Looks like it was the right move to move consoles. For a while you couldn’t even buy an X or a PS5.

 

[yamaci17]

The issue is about DX12 and the Xbox SDK, the game on PC has minimum specs way below XSS even after the changes:

Not sure you can assume anything about « developers starting to skip Xbox » from that story without stretching a lot.

and? you think minimum requirements have respectable, humane graphics/performance somehow?



this is what rdr2 looks like at lowest settings on minimum req PC. you cannt market, present this kind of image quality on series s. so "minimum reqs are lower than series s so it must ran on it gracefully" is not a good logic.

look at above video. even xbox one looks better than that and that has a GPU weaker than GTX 770. problem with GTX 770 that it lacks memory budget. xbox one has 5.5 gb memory budget which allows it to load high quality textures, where the likes of gtx 770 2 gb memory budget cannot. even if they're listed as minimum, this is no way the proper or right way to play. anyone who plays rdr2 with these textures are doing injustice to the game

problem with series s... it lacks memory budget. sounds similar? they simply cannot make the game look like that to scale back the game's memory budget for Series S. they have to do extra texture and model work for lower memory budget. that 8gb ram/4 gb vram will play with horribly ugly textures, most likely. that is simply not acceptable / presentable on an actual gaming console.

some people here for 3 years act like games are optimized for minimum listed specs. they are not. you literally have to make the game look like shit so that game somehow functions around 25-30 fps average on such specs. this is not optimization at all. this is just brute forcing potato quality to force the game into playable framerates (28+ fps)

it is not about running the game on Series S. it is about running the game on Series S in a way that it looks decent and acceptable. you cannot simply except them to treat Series S a minimum spec PC.

 

[Hobbygaming]

The issue is about DX12 and the Xbox SDK, the game on PC has minimum specs way below XSS even after the changes:

Not sure you can assume anything about « developers starting to skip Xbox » from that story without stretching a lot.

Both the GTX 970 have the same "theoretical" bandwidth but it could very well be a problem with the split memory banks in the S and any slight issue where it can't match these minimum requirements will cause trouble

Ultimately they want console versions to look and play better than minimum requirements

 

[Riky]

Both the GTX 970 have the same "theoretical" bandwidth but it could very well be a problem with the split memory banks in the S and any slight issue where it can't match these minimum requirements will cause trouble

Ultimately they want console versions to look and play better than minimum requirements

Series S hasn't got split memory banks, the 2gb of slower ram is reserved for the OS. Anyway some idiot posted a rant about this blaming Series S and the dev responded saying that's not what their statement says.

 

[bluecowboys]

Some developers might start skipping Xbox versions because of the Xbox Series X + Xbox Series S launch requirement.

We can assume that the S is the reason for technical issues here since PS5 and the XSX are similar in capabilities

Series S is a requirement for you to release games on Xbox series X?

 

[Hobbygaming]

Series S is a requirement for you to release games on Xbox series X.

Yes, it is a mandate from MS

 

[bluecowboys]

Yes, it is a mandate from MS

Looking at the game requirements and the graphics it seems to me this game should not have issues. If they can put Star field or flight simulator on series s this game should be handled easily.

Seems to me the team are short on resources if anything.

 

[Hobbygaming]

Series S hasn't got split memory banks, the 2gb of slower ram is reserved for the OS. Anyway some idiot posted a rant about this blaming Series S and the dev responded saying that's not what their statement says.

Only 224GB/s, the 56GB/s like you've also said can't be used for the game and it's only 8GBs of total ram for games which a little over 6 will be used up for game logic

 

[Riky]

Only 224GB/s, the 56GB/s like you've also said can't be used for the game and it's only 8GBs of total ram for games which a little over 6 will be used up for game logic

So the split bandwidth isn't an issue like I said, devs can't use it. Same as the reservations on Series X and PS5.

 

[Hobbygaming]

Series S hasn't got split memory banks, the 2gb of slower ram is reserved for the OS. Anyway some idiot posted a rant about this blaming Series S and the dev responded saying that's not what their statement says.

The devs clarified so yes the S is part of the problem and this confirms the same day launch requirement too

 

[Hobbygaming]

So the split bandwidth isn't an issue like I said, devs can't use it. Same as the reservations on Series X and PS5.

 

[Portugeezer]

They want to sell you gamepass, so it was a good idea for just that.

And it will probably temp some other console owners as a cheaper way to play some big hitters (when they come).

 

[Azelover]

It was a good move in the sense that it gave them a PR edge.

But when confronted with the choice, most people always want the best version. This has been clear as water since the days of the Xbox 360..

 

[Riky]

You said it could be due to split memory banks in the S, it isn't as the slower portion is unavailable to devs anyway, it may be something else but it isn't split memory banks that's the problem.

 

[Hobbygaming]

You said it could be due to split memory banks in the S, it isn't as the slower portion is unavailable to devs anyway, it may be something else but it isn't split memory banks that's the problem.

The S is not good for devs in the 1st place but they would've been much happier with 10GBs in a unified ram pool

 

[ironmang]

I bought an S for ~$220 on black friday and couldn't be happier with it. Having that and like 4-5 years of gamepass for less than the cost of an X is an amazing deal. The sleakness and portability is a nice bonus. My favorite gaming purchase in years, if ever.

I also have a hard time believing 2 xboxes is a significant challenge for development when they're expected to make PC games for a wide variety of hardware.

 

[Three]

The issue is about DX12 and the Xbox SDK, the game on PC has minimum specs way below XSS even after the changes:

Not sure you can assume anything about « developers starting to skip Xbox » from that story without stretching a lot.

How is 14GB of combined ram below the XSS?
That's min spec too, not even recommended.
What's the issue with DX12 and the xbox SDK specifically?

 

[Ivory Samoan]

Some developers might start skipping Xbox versions because of the Xbox Series X + Xbox Series S launch requirement.

We can assume that the S is the reason for technical issues here since PS5 and the XSX are similar in capabilities

Saw a few people get banned over at the other realm for pretty much just mentioning it's obviously the S screwing the pooch for BG3 for Xbox...like, it's quote obvious right?

Not sure how it's console war baiting when you're stating the obvious lol. I own every console, few rigs and I banished the S to my sons room never to be seen again, such a sub-par entry tbh: holds back innovation and just creates problems (like with Cyberpunk). All that gets played on that in Minecraft now, that works well at least.

 

[Hobbygaming]

Saw a few people get banned over at the other realm for pretty much just mentioning it's obviously the S screwing the pooch for BG3 for Xbox...like, it's quote obvious right?

Not sure how it's console war baiting when you're stating the obvious lol. I own every console, few rigs and I banished the S to my sons room never to be seen again, such a sub-par entry tbh: holds back innovation and just creates problems (like with Cyberpunk). All that gets played on that in Minecraft now, that works well at least.

Yeah, it doesn't take a graphics programmer to put two and two together especially after what developers were saying before this gen started

 

[Chukhopops]

How is 14GB of combined ram below the XSS?
That's min spec too, not even recommended.
What's the issue with DX12 and the xbox SDK specifically?

8+4 = 12 last I checked.

Do you really think a 970 and an i5 outperforms the XSS? That’s a video card from 2014.

The game runs fine on Steam Deck and it uses the same base engine as DOS 2… which runs on the Switch.

I really really doubt the issue is the XSS hardware but keep stretching…

Edit: forgot to mention the DX12 part, there are known issues with DX12 in the early access build of BG3, just go there and see for yourself.

 

[Chukhopops]

Saw a few people get banned over at the other realm for pretty much just mentioning it's obviously the S screwing the pooch for BG3 for Xbox...like, it's quote obvious right?

Not sure how it's console war baiting when you're stating the obvious lol. I own every console, few rigs and I banished the S to my sons room never to be seen again, such a sub-par entry tbh: holds back innovation and just creates problems (like with Cyberpunk). All that gets played on that in Minecraft now, that works well at least.

Quote by whom? The purple thread literally has a tweet from a Larian producer saying the issue isn’t related to XSS.

 

[begotten]

Do people actually play Larian games local co-op on console?

I played Divinity 1 & 2 online co-op (PC) and I can't imagine losing real estate in a game like that.

Just gut the mode on Xbox so it can meet the launch date. It's not like it's going to sell on that system and can you imagine the even smaller % planning on playing that way anyways.

 

[DevilHunterX0]

That's what the "S" in Xbox Series S stands for...

 

[Three]

8+4 = 12 last I checked.

Do you really think a 970 and an i5 outperforms the XSS? That’s a video card from 2014.

The game runs fine on Steam Deck and it uses the same base engine as DOS 2… which runs on the Switch.

I really really doubt the issue is the XSS hardware but keep stretching…

Edit: forgot to mention the DX12 part, there are known issues with DX12 in the early access build of BG3, just go there and see for yourself.

Those are min spec and the it requires 8GB + 4GB+. Even 12GB is above XSS. It would depend what they do.

Nobody is talking about the video card performance to begin with. You can just make it run at almost unacceptable looking graphics on min spec. That doesn't mean much here.

The engine doesn't tell you anything about the game requirements and even steamdeck has more RAM than XSS. Not sure what state it plays on it though.


Go where? You could just tell me what the issue is with DX12 that allows a PC release but not an xbox one.

 

[Three]

Just gut the mode on Xbox so it can meet the launch date. It's not like it's going to sell on that system and can you imagine the even smaller % planning on playing that way anyways.

They're not allowed to. There is a parity clause if you want to release on xbox.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

You could just tell me what the issue is with DX12 that allows a PC release but not an xbox one.

Simple, there is no PC authority that could block the release of a PC game for running badly on release. So it gets released on PC because there is no gate keeper. However, with consoles there IS a gatekeeper. The platform enforces minimum standards that need to be met before it can be released on that platform. Nintendo did this first decades ago with the NES, and it is still done today. It's just that what standards to enforce is up to the platform holder.

And in this case, the sticking point is "content parity between Series S and Series X". There is a feature on the game that runs fine of Series X that they couldn't yet get to work on S, so they can't release. End of story until they fix it.

 

[Three]

Simple, there is no PC authority that could block the release of a PC game for running badly on release. So it gets released on PC because there is no gate keeper. However, with consoles there IS a gatekeeper. The platform enforces minimum standards that need to be met before it can be released on that platform. Nintendo did this first decades ago with the NES, and it is still done today. It's just that what standards to enforce is up to the platform holder.

That's true but then he would be insinuating that they are releasing a broken product on PC on release day. So what exactly is this supposed DX12 issue?

 

[Duchess]

The split screen thing is a bit off an odd addition, I have to say.

It's pretty obvious to me that Sony paid the devs to put it in, knowing it would cripple the Series S, and therefore the Xbox versions as a whole.

PlayStation's money hatting is now moving into the indirect sabotage phase.

 

[Chukhopops]

Those are min spec and the it requires 8GB + 4GB+. Even 12GB is above XSS. It would depend what they do.

Nobody is talking about the video card performance to begin with. You can just make it run at almost unacceptable looking graphics on min spec. That doesn't mean much here.

The engine doesn't tell you anything about the game requirements and even steamdeck has more RAM than XSS. Not sure what state it plays on it though.


Go where? You could just tell me what the issue is with DX12 that allows a PC release but not an xbox one.

I give up, I’m not going to waste time explaining the difference in memory bandwidth between a Steam Deck, an XSS and an i5 4690k processor.

Keep believing what you believe.

The split screen thing is a bit off an odd addition, I have to say.

It's pretty obvious to me that Sony paid the devs to put it in, knowing it would cripple the Series S, and therefore the Xbox versions as a whole.

PlayStation's money hatting is now moving into the indirect sabotage phase.

There was split screen in both DOS and DOS 2… on last gen consoles.

 

[begotten]

They're not allowed to. There is a parity clause if you want to release on xbox.

Gee whiz - I hope those 2 rednecks who try it out for 5 minutes before jumping back onto some Horde on Gears enjoy it then.

 

[rofif]

Of course it’s bad:
It’s slower so lowest common denominator
No disc drive so another nail in the physical coffin
Going back to 1080p unlike promised 1440

It’s weird, strange cheapest entry to gaming but at the same time you can’t buy cheap used physical games. It only needed a drive.

 

[Three]

I give up, I’m not going to waste time explaining the difference in memory bandwidth between a Steam Deck, an XSS and an i5 4690k processor.

Try me.

Keep believing what you believe.

Meanwhile you keep believing that them being unable to get splitscreen co-op working to the same standard across XSX and XSS "is an issue about DX12 and the Xbox SDK" even though XSS and XSX both use DX12 and the same xbox SDK. Even more bizarrely I should be able to see this mysterious issue on the PC early access or something. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

 

[Physiognomonics]

The two people I know personally who have a Series S didn't have an Xbox One and had no intention of buying a Series X or PS5. They seem more than happy with what they got for the money.
Both subscribed to Gamepass. I presume there are many more people like them who wanted next gen features minus the resolution for £249 or less.

People who got XSS may be happy. But what about the people who got XSX with unoptimized games? Don't you think some of them blame it on the XSS?

And what about the lowest denominator (8GB memory) that is impacting multiplats games on all platforms? Do you think those people are happy?

 

[Chukhopops]

Try me.

 

[FunkMiller]

The two people I know personally who have a Series S didn't have an Xbox One and had no intention of buying a Series X or PS5. They seem more than happy with what they got for the money.
Both subscribed to Gamepass. I presume there are many more people like them who wanted next gen features minus the resolution for £249 or less.

So, the people who don't care that they have a weaker, crappier machine are happy with their weaker, crappier machine?

The problem here is that plenty of people have the better, stronger machine, and are a bit sick of everything having to run on the weaker, crappier machine.

 

[Three]

 

[Poltz]

It frequently gets price cuts and still doesnt shift units, that speaks for itself.

 

[scarlet0pimp]

Split screen works on the S for Modern Warfare II and fortnite, so not sure what the issue is with this BG 3 but it will be solvable. It runs really well split screen with fortnight looks better than the last gen version much better than the switch version and 60fps pretty much locked.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

That's true but then he would be insinuating that they are releasing a broken product on PC on release day. So what exactly is this supposed DX12 issue?

The performance on PC had always been up to the user. As long as the "recommended spec" PC runs the game, the Minimum spec crowd doesn't get a say.

 

[Three]

The performance on PC had always been up to the user. As long as the "recommended spec" PC runs the game, the Minimum spec crowd doesn't get a say.

That's true, minimum spec is sometimes barely acceptable but I'm more interested in knowing about this users mysterious DX12 issue specifically, thats got splitscreen not running to the same standard across X and S.

Split screen works on the S for Modern Warfare II and fortnite, so not sure what the issue is with this BG 3 but it will be solvable. It runs really well split screen with fortnight looks better than the last gen version much better than the switch version and 60fps pretty much locked.

They probably have their game using a lot of RAM for each player and view in splitscreen for BG3. It's dependent on the game and engine. They just need more time optimising things and getting it to a decent state I think but don't want to delay other platforms. They no doubt can do it given time, maybe even by August.

 

[SkylineRKR]

Do you guys find that PS5 exclusives look far better than Series X games? If not, how exactly is Series S hurting the Series X?

The architecture of XSS is next-gen, with SSD, velocity, quick resume and pretty much all next-gen features. But its just weaker in terms of raw power. This means that you see PS5 and Xbox Series X versions at near 4k resolutions or w/e, and XSS versions at something closer to 1080p, no RT mode, no 120hz mode or perhaps even 30fps. They are not prioritizing XSS. Halo falls to SD levels on XSS when 120hz mode is on.

XSS is great as a secondary system. I've played a lot during its first year, and didn't need to buy many games for it. But since PS Extra and the myriad of PS5 releases I exclusively use my PS5 for about a year or so. I have no time to play everything on PS5 even, let alone on XSS. At some point I wanted to buy an XSX but for me its useless to do so.