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Opinion Event Hype No More "Wait Till Next E3"; 2021's Show Will Define Microsoft's Prospects One Way Or Another

What's the most important thing you feel Microsoft needs to show this E3 for the masses (choose 3)?

  • Stellar re-showing of Halo Infinite

    Votes: 212 55.9%
  • Reveal and gameplay for Starfield

    Votes: 128 33.8%
  • New exclusive Japanese IP reveal

    Votes: 37 9.8%
  • New exclusive Western IP reveal

    Votes: 63 16.6%
  • Visually "next-gen" gaming exclusives (BMI, Scorn, Exo Mecha, Gunk etc.)

    Votes: 144 38.0%
  • More GamePass announcements/partnerships

    Votes: 81 21.4%
  • Gameplay from a new secret first-party IP

    Votes: 122 32.2%
  • Another major acquisition (WB Games, Sega, etc.)

    Votes: 51 13.5%
  • Announcement for VR on Xbox

    Votes: 22 5.8%

  • Total voters
    379
  • Poll closed .
Mar 27, 2020
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Uncharted bunghole
Problem with the original xbox one is its awful memory set up as well. it's just a pain to program for. On top of that you have microsofts directive of delivering 60FPS games on that box (especially for halo) so its really difficult to make those games look good on that box. Targetting 33.3MS budget to 16 is really pretty difficult from what I understand when ive spoken to developers.

That doesn't sound right because we still have great looking games even on the original X1. They should be able to make great looking Crossgen games on the XSX. I think the big difference here is that Sony 1st party studios have really good engines and their talents allow them to produce some great looking games on both platforms. Microsoft high end developers should be able to do the same and they have plenty of them like The Coalition, iDSoftware and PlayGround games for example. I didn't mention the initiative because I have no idea what their Perfect Dark game is going to look like. Still need to see more from them before I can judge how good they are.

Edit: I just thought of something and if the X1 is such a problem they can always take a Demon Souls like approach with their games. Basically design two different versions of games like what happened with Titanfall.
 
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jroc74

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The problem with crossgen for MS is that the Xbox One was a very underpowered console, so it's much more harder to do great visual crossgen games.

Still, that Gears Of War DLC looked really great.
Which is why some of us said Infinite shoulda just been an XBO game and do a next gen version later.

That decision seems like it bit MS in the ass hard. They tried to straddle the generations with that game and set expectations sky high.
 
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noise36

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When is that LAST time Xbox finished strongly?

Past returns do not equal future returns.

game pass and a big focus on first party such as with Bethesda have changed the game.

Netflix of gaming anywhere.

Which also means greenlight anything that may seem attractive to fill holes in their library. Even if it ends up like battletoads.



heh

Netflix was the best thing to happen to TV/Movies, they have and continue to spend billions on new content and have some huge hits on their hands.
 
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Shubh_C63

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I have a bad feeling the only gameplay we're going to see is halo, starfield and maybe Forza, hope I'm wrong tho
Probably. It will be filled with teasers of any new projects or just logo/studio name drops.
I have no faith that we will see any new game gameplay other than top3.
 
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dcmk7

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Exactly this. Xbox will be the main vehicle for GamePass for the next few years, its version of GamePass is widely considered superior to the PC one when it comes to the library, and it offers the best value proposition in terms of price & performance when compared to mobile/tablet (where you can't play the games natively there, only stream them and not all GP games are Xcloud-enabled) and PC (where you have to pay a good deal more for a PC providing equivalent performance to a Series S or Series X).

I'm actually shocked at how low their production numbers seem to be considering Sony are outselling them 2:1 currently; I have no doubt that Series X is selling out as quickly or almost as quickly as PS5 but the Series S? Seems to be more easily available in several markets going by anecdotal accounts at least. And there's other things, like it being the best-selling system in India in April but then I check the numbers and it's something like 5,000 units; in terms of total install base size that's a rounding error, statistically speaking.

I was always a bit worried about if Microsoft pushed too much of their split towards Series S this early on and in hindsight I think that was worth bringing up. Early adopters by and large clearly have no problem paying for PS5 or Series X since they feel the value in terms of power/performance alongside features and software make them worth the price, and early adopters are almost always hardcore/core gamers who pay those premiums in the first 1-2 years of a new system's lifecycle.

So on that front I think Sony did a better job simply because both of their SKUs offer the exact same performance profile outside of one not having a disc drive, and they skewed that version's volumes much lower so that they wouldn't lose too much on overall system production. It seems like Microsoft might've skewed Series S's ratio a little higher and it has a very different performance profile vs. Series X.

There's something else bugging me in the back of my head on this when I hear various people saying the S will "vastly" outsell the X, and I think even Phil Spencer has said this, which leads me to think that once they reach an influx point they're going to ramp up the split to heavily favor Series S production and scale down Series X production numbers in relation. But if there are more more Series S units in the install base than Series X...won't that lead to games targeting Series S and using the X as a resolution/framerate-boost machine? Positing Series X as this generation's Xbox One X, meaning there's a somewhat real chance we'll never fully see what the Series X can really do for games built from the ground-up for specifically that technical spec.

I mean there's a lot you can do with a system like a Series S...but there's way more you can do with a machine like the Series X. If they positioned Series S as a replacement for the One S in terms of being a lower-tiered device targeting running enhanced BC of XBO games and not current-gen games, I'd be very comfortable with that. But that's not really how it's seemingly being positioned in their product category. Either GDK is so good devs really can target the high-end and easily scale down to the low-end (not just in terms of texture quality, framerate and resolution, but also in terms of level composition complexity, geometry density, physics calculations, AI routines etc...which generally don't scale nearly as well traditionally), or devs will opt out of targeting Series X and go for Series S as the baseline, which limits the scope of game design.

And right now, we've mainly only got a bunch of cross-gen games that were already targeting 8th-gen consoles as baselines, very little of anything targeting 9th-gen explicitly. Arguably Returnal? I would've said The Medium if it weren't for the fact it was initially a cross-gen game that got moved to exclusively 9th-gen late in development. Demon's Souls and Miles Morales, for as good as they look, are still games built on software designed for PS4 and in Demon's case, PS3. So Rachet & Clank: Rift Apart might be the first game we see explicitly made for a 9th-gen system from the ground-up and I'm just thinking...if for Microsoft it comes to a point Series S is selling way more than the Series X and therefore the S becomes the baseline, how the actual hell do you put out software that comes near the visual fidelity, physics simulation, various game design features etc. of a Rift Apart there?

Those are the main reasons why I wish they (Microsoft) just took more of an initial hit and did a Series X discless system for $399 or even $349 if they wanted to be very aggressive, since GamePass growth is primarily being driven by console sales at least for the time being. I think they should've also been more aggressive in securing more wafers through AMD, by having a more optimistic outlook on demand especially if they could've foreseen the impact the Zenimax acquisition news would've had prior to getting manufacturing started. But that's all mainly in the past.



NP dude; thought for a second it was actually a new internal studio lol.



Welp, a lot of us are hoping it is. Unfortunately some insiders are seemingly souring those prospects and we can only hope they have a bad or outdated source(s). Microsoft does IMHO need to make this E3 a great one, not merely "decent enough"; not only is E3's future kind of riding on this, but sustained momentum for Xbox as a brand and everything wrapped up in it (including GamePass and Xcloud) also depend a lot on it IMHO.

Reason being because Nintendo and especially Sony aren't going to stand still, and people outside of the ecosystem looking for a reason to jump in are going to get tired of waiting sooner rather than later as the others hook their time and money instead. And it's reaching those type of gamers Microsoft needs in order to see more growth for GamePass, at least for the next 2-3 years. Larger growth with the mobile markets will probably come around 2025 when streaming tech should be much better than it currently is and (hopefully) data plans and limits are more lenient across the board.
Agree with a lot of this. Really good post.

I wish MS had made a XSX discless edition. Would have saved them, developers and consumers a lot of headaches and confusion.

Though I believe having to play compromised versions of next gen games isn't going to help the XSS sell.
Have to see how it manages as time goes on, but you're right it's much more readily available at the moment and even being discounted a bit over in the UK.

Hopefully, MS manages the manufacturing split well and we don't lead to the issue you have raised, in terms of focusing more effort on the XSS. I guess it all depends on sales.

It's an interesting situation nonetheless.
 

mejin

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So what is MS' approach then?

IMHO MS is constantly changing it. Right now they are a 100% service centric a.k.a. gamepass. The best cost x benefit service out there where you can play several games you didn't know they existed, plus some launching games directly in the service, their games and 3rd party. It really doesn't matter if "Xbox" will grow in brand awareness cause their intent is to put this service everywhere. They need to do this cause depending on xbox community alone the service can only grow so much.

That's my humble explanation on why even after acquire studios (before Bethesda) they still aren't ready for this new gen. Still, big single player productions doesn't really fit a service like gamepass. They want people to be loyal customers, so they need quantity than quality. I'm not saying they won't offer quality games, but they need games that can be explored more than a month. We saw Gears 5 coming day one to the service and in the next month no one was talking about the game anymore. Same as Outriders.

"Organic growth" was treated as a joke for the same people who believe in Spencer since 2014. But Insomniac is outputing game after game where MS' acquisitions are only saying they are working on blog posts or showing clips of clouds.

Sony wants to take more than half of the market share with Playstation 5. They are working hard to make this happen and they know the importance of their first party studios and ips, plus their partnerships with 3rd party. They already have a clear objective to do this and it will involve their other segments: movies, animes, music. Playstation brand has everything to grow further this gen and Sony plans to expand to mobile and PC without forgetting PS5 hardware is a thing. It is the opposite, everything else won't mean shit if PS5 flops.

First year games of PS5 are better than PS4 ones. So the world knows right now Sony doesn't make empty promises, they deliver.
 
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See, this is the kind of stuff that's starting to piss me off. Either they're trolling, have bad sources, or they're telling the truth and I'm just left scratching my head asking "How?!? WHY?!?". They've already had teams acquired since 2018, they have exclusives with third-parties they showed last year which looked great yet weren't running on a Series X at the time (Bright Memory Infinite, etc.).

So, are they not only going to not have new gameplay for stuff like BMI running on Series X at the show, but also they don't have a single internal team between the OGs, the 2018 acquired ones and the ones gained through the Zenimax acquisition, that has SOMETHING running in real-time on Series X by this point (COVID or not) that can at least match up with what we've seen coming from Sony since the PS5's launch, let alone from things like yesterday's Horizon Forbidden West SoP (which was excellent, tho there's been some "weird" takes of people trying to downplay it, I have no idea where that is coming from xD)? And people are just supposed to be okay with that and "wait more"?

I get that Microsoft want to more firmly carve out their own identity in the market and that doesn't come from outright copying Nintendo or Sony. Understandable. But for three generations they have always either marketed themselves on power or put out games that competed favorably with Sony's and other massive 3P games visually, in more cases than not. They can't just suddenly decide they don't want to try competing when it comes to pushing the visual fidelity envelope, especially considering they just released one of the best-looking photorealistic games of all time last year in Flight Simulator 2020!!

So yeah, I hope Jez is wrong here, or that they're trolling, or doing some reverse psychology. If he's playing it straight here....I have my bunker ready.

Well yeah.... but this thread and that tweet was talking about this E3.

I expect anything MS puts out thats next gen only to look as good or better. Maybe even something that cross gen.

Some of us have said before so far it seems Sony devs can handle cross gen better than most.

Seems that way; it comes down to smart upper management and knowing how to steer things. Just based on what proof of things we've seen so far there's literally no one who would put Matt Booty above Herman Hulst in this area, but maybe we start to see the fruits of XGS's labors this E3 and that conversation can be had more seriously.

This isn’t a criticism of you when I say this. What the hell has been going on there (Xbox) the last few years? GG released Horizon Zero Dawn in 2017 and their sequel looks close to completion and yet as a Xbox fan I keep reading how we have to wait, how expectations have to be kept in check and stuff like this. I’m really sick of it to be honest.

I feel like I bought a decent console emulator for £500 with Series X .

Exactly, and another thing too: Forbidden West, like Halo Infinite, is also cross-gen and open-world, yet the two look almost a generation apart. I'm referring to the July gameplay for Infinite; the newer screens DO look better but we haven't seen the game in motion since that July.

I'm also fairly confident Forbidden West's budget is a fraction of Halo Infinite's, and while they didn't show it yesterday, it'll have a 60 FPS mode for the PS5 version and probably look about as good as what was shown yesterday. But anyway, I think it's a bit ridiculous some of the insiders are telling Xbox fans to temper expectations; maybe for those who expected Perfect Dark reboot gameplay next month, yeah they deserve to be let down because that was 100% unrealistic to expect right now.

But some gameplay (running on Series X) of 1P and 3P exclusives that are 6-18 months from release, that can at least in one of those game's cases, have visual fidelity and artistry comparable to Forbidden West (which, again, is a cross-gen game and also open-world)? How is that an unrealistic expectation at this point? Why should fans temper their expectations of at least that much?

For me if they could show gameplay of Bright Memory Infinite in real-time on Series X matching or exceeding the demo they showed in May 2020, that would be more than satisfactory on that front because that's still very impressive visually as it was back in May of last year. And that isn't even a 1P game (and seemingly is due for a 2021 release); if Microsoft were doing what they should be in providing as much technical support to the team as possible to ensure the game can have gameplay ready for E3, and ensuring they could meet or exceed that visual target from the May presentation. So let's hope that's what they've been doing for such a game.
I think the immediate focus will be big deals for games on gamepass to buy time for the heavy hitting first party exclusives later down the road. Regardless, I expect xbox to start hitting.

But how are those big deals for games on GamePass going to really shift the narrative in Microsoft's favor considering they've already been getting some big deals into the service? Again, I'm talking about them appealing to people outside of the Xbox ecosystem, because there is growth potential there. Most of the early adopters want things that feel like "next-gen" experiences, that can only be done on that platform or ecosystem.

It's going to remain that way for the next 2 or so years, as well, so how is getting a 3P game Day 1 into GamePass, that can just as easily be played on a competing platform (albeit at a bigger cost) with additional feature support like Dualsense feedback and (possibly) VR support...going to really do them much favors outside of the price-conscious whom the vast majority of early adopters are not comprised of?

Now, if they can get such a game day-and-date on GP and also as a timed console exclusive and it happens to be a major deal, like BF6, then I can see it pulling bigger momentum. But I guess we'll see if Microsoft are willing to take it that far (IMHO they need to, it sends a message).

I appreciate your sentiments on the XSS but I didn't catch where you mentioned that every Xbox game will hit PC. Since all their games will be on PC the XSS isn't the thing that would affect the potential of XSX games, it's the PC seeing how there are millions of PCs that don't even match the XSS in terms of capability. MS wants to sell games to those people too. It's about broadening their audience.

You're right, that was a bit of an oversight on my part, but I also think it's fair to ask just how low will MS go in terms of what range of PC hardware they target. They don't need to cater for literally everything, even what's currently the popular minimum spec. If they can focus on treating their 1P content to just hone on their console(s) and then use additional dev time to scale and config everything for the PC side, I am okay with that.

They get their Day 1 Xbox & PC release and we (in theory) get games that seem/feel like they were developed for their marquee hardware (Series X) at the heart and just happen to work well on PC too. It's basically what Sony's been doing, just without the long staggers between console & PC (also at least for most of those games Sony didn't initially plan PC versions so that has to be taken into account too).

Since MS conceded they will never beat Sony in a unit for unit sales race they have also conceded the idea of fully maximizing their consoles' power. This has positive benefits seeing how the virtualized environment allows the XSX|S to do things with games that come out during this cross generational period that cannot be done on other platforms. It allows their backwards compatibility to be 2nd to none but it will put a bit of a limit on the upper bound on some of their games visual fidelity(Prove me wrong MS).

This is what starts to frustrate me in some ways, because what it means is in practice we may never fully see Series X's potential maximized. Did Microsoft sacrifice too much in terms of current/next-gen ambitions in the design to placate too much for BC and cross-generational support? Guess only time will tell.

The thing too is, we already know Microsoft CAN deliver on amazing visual fidelity, just look at Flight Simulator 2020. On capable PCs that's still the best-looking game (simulator) on the market readily available for consumers. Even when Rachet & Clank and Horizon Forbidden West drop, FS 2020 will be right there with them in terms of best-looking games on the market...at least the PC version. It's coming to Series X supposedly this year, but it's also coming to the XBO, as if that system needs it (it doesn't). We can only hope the Series X version comes within the ballpark of the PC one running on powerful rigs.

Hopefully talent, UE5, ID tech, and the use of their hardware features baked into all Xbox Series consoles will keep their titles looking fantastic for the people who have higher end hardware. The next e3 will answer some of those questions. I'm looking forward to it.

Same, but they really do need to show some banger gameplay running on Series X with visual fidelity at least within ballpark of H:FW.
 
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Dude, Matt Booty already said several of their first party games not ready. Most got affected by covid badly. So forget Fable, Everwild, Hellblade and Perfect dark or Avowed. These games not rdy till 2023 minimum.

Only Games you will get e3 are Halo infinite, Forza Horizon 5 and Starfield and some 3rd party Game pass deals and all will be cross gen.

And if we are lucky then Wolfenstein 3 or some nice surprises but keep your expectations in check. It is your fault if you expecting too much.

Expecting gameplay for Bright Memory Infinite, The Gunk, Exo Mecha etc. (games already shown last year in some form and slated for a release this year) running on Series X that can match or exceed what we saw of them the last time is not "expecting too much". I picked those games in particular because BMI and Exo-Mecha have excellent visual fidelity from the trailers seen so far, but they weren't running on actual Xbox hardware so hard to say if they'll look that good in real-time on Series X. They can prove they will this E3, just one minute of gameplay from each would be enough.

Otherwise, I was never expecting PD or Fable to show up. Avowed either, tho there's rumor it may actually be there with gameplay and if so that'll be fantastic.
 
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Papacheeks

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Past returns do not equal future returns.

game pass and a big focus on first party such as with Bethesda have changed the game.





heh

Netflix was the best thing to happen to TV/Movies, they have and continue to spend billions on new content and have some huge hits on their hands.

Actually money wise they are not in a great position. And are in a bidding war for content. They did a billion dollar deal with Sony for movies that are currently unproven to be good. They lack quality content. The quality content they have is too few or at least the down time between great shows is too long because everyone binges all their content.

They took too long to create their own content, and relied heavily on third party to fill it. Which costs more to get shows like AMC, BC, ESPN ect. It costs a lot. Now think about Gamepass and the amount of money they are spending with EA, ubisoft, Rockstar, Square enix.

And we wont see anything from them internally till 2023 outside of halo/forza.
Time is whats against you the most when it comes to services. When Sony revamps their services which they slowly have started doing with higher quality picked content. It's going to be a Disney+ kind of situation.

Right now even with the dips, Disney was able to do half of netflixs numbers in a years time.
Let that sink in. Meaning NETFLIX, was WW over 200 Million and it fluctuates a lot. Disney+ did like 90+ Million in a year. ANd thats because of content. Disney+/Hulu/Espn+ are all part of the same package if you want it, for a price less than netflix's premium for 4k.
You get all the great shows on FX,Fox, Disney, ABC all at your finger tips. On top of all the starwars, disney, marvel content you could want. And with shows like Mandalorian, Falcon, wandavision you now already have reputation synonymous with quality.
Most of the shows Netflix has were bougtht from other entities. They have some internally made that are really good, and their comedy specials are good as well.

But the real thing you want to do, for maximizing profit is internally made shows. Sometimes on cancelled shows is where you get deals for good content. But all in all your content is what people should be coming for.
There's a reason Netflix has spent more in the past 2-3years than the last 5-6. And thats because competition is nutts. HBO max is killing it right now. Disney is killing it again in 2 weeks when loki starts.

Where is XBox with their software?

They have been spending like crazy and in couple weeks you will see why, and a lot of it wont be content they own.
 

mckmas8808

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Netflix of gaming anywhere.

Which also means greenlight anything that may seem attractive to fill holes in their library. Even if it ends up like battletoads.

Ewwww....

I appreciate your sentiments on the XSS but I didn't catch where you mentioned that every Xbox game will hit PC. Since all their games will be on PC the XSS isn't the thing that would affect the potential of XSX games, it's the PC seeing how there are millions of PCs that don't even match the XSS in terms of capability. MS wants to sell games to those people too. It's about broadening their audience.

Since MS conceded they will never beat Sony in a unit for unit sales race they have also conceded the idea of fully maximizing their consoles' power. This has positive benefits seeing how the virtualized environment allows the XSX|S to do things with games that come out during this cross generational period that cannot be done on other platforms. It allows their backwards compatibility to be 2nd to none but it will put a bit of a limit on the upper bound on some of their games visual fidelity(Prove me wrong MS).

Hopefully talent, UE5, ID tech, and the use of their hardware features baked into all Xbox Series consoles will keep their titles looking fantastic for the people who have higher end hardware. The next e3 will answer some of those questions. I'm looking forward to it.

This is the smartest thing I've ever read from you. You are 100% on point! I never thought of it this way. Thanks for the insight.
 
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I wish MS had made a XSX discless edition. Would have saved them, developers and consumers a lot of headaches and confusion.

Definitely. When the S was first revealed I thought to myself that it didn't make sense to introduce it this early unless it were, say, literally a XBO S refresh, which honestly I think it should've been. XBO S-tier specs but with RDNA2 and Zen 2 components to support that featureset, support for SSD but not even necessarily need for the same one in Series X, would've also required less memory and could've gone with slower memory, too.

Since the Series S is also made to replace the One S, you would've had a 1.23 TF Series S with Zen 2 and RDNA2, 8 GB GDDR5 and support for M.2 drives with a cheaper, much slower but capable 256 GB microSD that could work with the decompression chip. Make it very small, that would make it portable-friendly, draw way less power (maybe enough to include an internal battery?) and they could've put that out for $199 or maybe even cheaper. It'd support DX12U just like the Series X and support AMD FidelityFX, SuperResolution, same ML support and RT support as Series X (just much less of it) and be a perfect little machine for streaming Series X games via Xcloud.

Why did that not cross from an idea into reality from the Xbox team, I'll never know, but it just sounds a good deal better in my head than what the Series S actually is in practice. Like how cheap are they going to get Series S down to over the next 1-2 years, without taking a loss? If they did what I proposed above, they'd of had a ton of leftover budget for more Series X wafer capacity, and for 20 GB memory that way they wouldn't need the "split" memory pool. The SSD could stay the same because it's perfectly capable and a unique solution, and this way devs only need to focus on one next-gen MS system, Series X. Considering they're only running One S instances in the Azure servers anyway, it'd of made for an even better solution because by the time they'd want to upgrade streaming quality on Xcloud they could just rely on FSR and other upscaling techniques with ML in the software itself to do so.

It really does baffle me why they designed Series S the way they did because right now it's over-ambitious for their Xcloud on Azure, and not ambitious enough for the majority of hardcore/core gaming early adopters, and too early to attract the larger mainstream & casual gaming market. Also considering so many games are cross-gen, if the casuals and mainstream really want to jump into current-gen this early, they can play most of these games (and any of Microsoft's) on last-gen systems like PS4 and One S which are cheaper and easier to acquire, considering these same gamers don't likely have 4K televisions supporting 120 Hz and the such. Ironically the one system that presents case for casuals/mainstream to jump into current-gen early is PS5 since it has several games that simply can't be played on PS4, but its price is way too high for that slice of the gaming market ATM.

Hopefully, MS manages the manufacturing split well and we don't lead to the issue you have raised, in terms of focusing more effort on the XSS. I guess it all depends on sales.

It's an interesting situation nonetheless.

Sales will play a big factor for sure, but they can also guide sales to one or other by simply manufacturing more of one or the other, which is what's a bit irksome in this scenario.

IMHO MS is constantly changing it. Right now they are a 100% service centric a.k.a. gamepass. The best cost x benefit service out there where you can play several games you didn't know they existed, plus some launching games directly in the service, their games and 3rd party. It really doesn't matter if "Xbox" will grow in brand awareness cause their intent is to put this service everywhere. They need to do this cause depending on xbox community alone the service can only grow so much.

I counter this by saying it's still important to a large degree how Xbox grows as a brand because for at least the next few years, the best means of enjoying GamePass is natively on local hardware, so streaming will be a nice value-add, not the main draw. And outside of PC the only other option for that currently is Xbox consoles, particularly Series S and Series X.

That's my humble explanation on why even after acquire studios (before Bethesda) they still aren't ready for this new gen. Still, big single player productions doesn't really fit a service like gamepass. They want people to be loyal customers, so they need quantity than quality. I'm not saying they won't offer quality games, but they need games that can be explored more than a month. We saw Gears 5 coming day one to the service and in the next month no one was talking about the game anymore. Same as Outriders.

TBF, Netflix has a similar "issue"; they tend to drop episodes for new shows in straight-up batches so after a few days of intense discussion conversations online just tend to vanish. Happened with Stranger Things and other stuff of theirs, the movies fare better though given no one would want to consume a movie in parts spread out over weekly.

Single-player content can work on a service like GamePass if A) there's new single-player content every couple of weeks and/or B) new content for a single-player game rolls out weekly for a few weeks (say upwards two months). It would need to be done smartly though and justify the rollout of the new content in B's case, though.
 

XXL

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Anyone defending MS for this current state needs to just stop its embarrassing. Let me put this into perspective for you all. Playstation has launched more 1st party games on XsX than MS has....
Spit Take Lol GIF by Justin
 

elliot5

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I hope they don't show Bright Memory Infinite AGAIN. I get that it has high visual fidelity because it's like using all of Unreal's baked in rendering tech all at once with a bunch of particles and wind systems clusterfucking the screen, but I couldn't care less about it as a game in general. at least games like Horizon and Ratchet are more compelling as a whole package while still showing off great visuals.

Like Lost Soul Aside and Bright Memory: Wukong look 10000% style over substance if they aren't vaporware titles. I know plenty of Chinese devs are talented, but for whatever reason it's like the only games that get buzz from them are the shallow VFX laden fiestas. That's just the market, I guess.
 

OceanGaming

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Also, i posted in this thread before but did not actually post my thoughts about this. I feel like MS made a mistake for not spending cash for proper 3rd party exclusivity, at least for the first 1 - 1.5 years. Sony is doing a smart job actually handling this such that, and let me give an example to make this crystal clear, if for any reason (COVID for example) God of Barlog 2 doesn't release in Spring of 2022 then you will still have some form of cushion in the name of Forspoken. THIS takes the weight of Sony dev's shoulders in the case of emergency and for the times that both First Party and Third Party comes out at the same season (scenario of things working out well) well that is just bloody superb isn't it? For Sony players, this means getting something cool every season, which i would like to congratulate Sony for. This is a sign of Sony's far seeing ablility which Xbox either lacks or had it once but forgotten nowadays.
 
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anothertech

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This is the time. Gotta put up or shut up MS. Give us somthing seriously mind blowing. It's been a while.
 

DaGwaphics

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That doesn't sound right because we still have great looking games even on the original X1. They should be able to make great looking Crossgen games on the XSX. I think the big difference here is that Sony 1st party studios have really good engines and their talents allow them to produce some great looking games on both platforms. Microsoft high end developers should be able to do the same and they have plenty of them like The Coalition, iDSoftware and PlayGround games for example. I didn't mention the initiative because I have no idea what their Perfect Dark game is going to look like. Still need to see more from them before I can judge how good they are.

Edit: I just thought of something and if the X1 is such a problem they can always take a Demon Souls like approach with their games. Basically design two different versions of games like what happened with Titanfall.

I think there is a bigger difference in the capabilities of the two pieces of hardware than you are allowing for. In third-party PS4 is often not fully utilized (held back a bit by the X1), but Sony first-party goes all out. Not to say that Sony studios aren't super talented, but much of the apparent differences in visuals between Xbox and Sony first party during the X1/PS4 gen have just come down to Sony first party working with a 50% stronger box. I would assume that gets magnified a bit more in a head-to-head with HFW by the difference in target fps on the old systems.

Anyway, the latest Halo Infinite screenshots look nice, and if the world is as big as what they've mentioned previously it should really be something.
 

jroc74

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Anyone defending MS for this current state needs to just stop its embarrassing. Let me put this into perspective for you all. Playstation has launched more 1st party games on XsX than MS has....
Damn.

Add to this Death Loop and Tokyo Ghost Wire have 1 year PS5 exclusivity and.....yeah.....

Its a wild look no matter how you look at it.
 

elliot5

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PlayStation hasn't released more first party games on XSX than MS. Gears Tactics and Hivebusters were new additions and first party. They just haven't made day 1 new releases (like new IP or fresh sequels vs DLC) or X|S exclusives. MLB is a multiplat/cross gen game.
 

DaGwaphics

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PlayStation hasn't released more first party games on XSX than MS. Gears Tactics and Hivebusters were new additions and first party. They just haven't made day 1 new releases (like new IP or fresh sequels vs DLC) or X|S exclusives. MLB is a multiplat/cross gen game.

They have launched some timed console exclusives also in Call of the Sea and The Medium and they will have flight sim (I'm probably forgetting some of the other smaller ones too). Plus all the third-party stuff.
 
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Papacheeks

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They have launched some timed console exclusives also in Call of the Sea and The Medium and they will have flight sim (I'm probably forgetting some of the other smaller ones too). Plus all the third-party stuff.

Compared to the quality of what Sony puts out. None of those titles you listed are exciting enough to buy a console.

It's a nice added plus for gamepass to have those on top of halo, doom ect. But not even close to same caliber.
 

DaGwaphics

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Compared to the quality of what Sony puts out. None of those titles you listed are exciting enough to buy a console.

It's a nice added plus for gamepass to have those on top of halo, doom ect. But not even close to same caliber.

To each their own. They've been selling everything they put out there hardware wise, it's not like software could have sold more hardware at this point anyway.
 

Havoc2049

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I hope they don't show Bright Memory Infinite AGAIN. I get that it has high visual fidelity because it's like using all of Unreal's baked in rendering tech all at once with a bunch of particles and wind systems clusterfucking the screen, but I couldn't care less about it as a game in general. at least games like Horizon and Ratchet are more compelling as a whole package while still showing off great visuals.

Like Lost Soul Aside and Bright Memory: Wukong look 10000% style over substance if they aren't vaporware titles. I know plenty of Chinese devs are talented, but for whatever reason it's like the only games that get buzz from them are the shallow VFX laden fiestas. That's just the market, I guess.
I actually hope they show more of Bright Memory Infinite. I just finished Bright Memory on the Series X and thought it was pretty cool and it gave me Maken X and Breakdown vibes, which I also enjoyed. As an FPS fan, I enjoy the different take that Asian and Japanese developers bring to the genre.
 
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To each their own. They've been selling everything they put out there hardware wise, it's not like software could have sold more hardware at this point anyway.
I guess if the customers are good with eating a PB&J it makes no sense asking the chef to whip up a sirloin. For those that want a steak, hey theres a restaurant for that.
 
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Yeah, MS and Spencer gotta stop saying "wait til next E3". Agreed.

But we been saying this for the past decade and XBox still here and having good shows.
Technically, SEGA is still "here" too. But there are different degrees of existence for a gaming division. Some less than others.

And if "still here" is all people want, then they should stop boasting about how rich Microsoft is from selling buisness software, in a gaming forum.
 
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DarkMage619

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Compared to the quality of what Sony puts out. None of those titles you listed are exciting enough to buy a console.

It's a nice added plus for gamepass to have those on top of halo, doom ect. But not even close to same caliber.
That is changing the goal posts from Sony has put out more Xbox games to well MS has put up Xbox games but Sony's games are better overall. It's clear MS hasn't managed their game releases as well as Sony but e3 is next month. I'm will to see what they have.

I guess if the customers are good with eating a PB&J it makes no sense asking the chef to whip up a sirloin. For those that want a steak, hey theres a restaurant for that.
Game quality is subjective and if you love quality multi-player games Sony doesn't really make those games at all. Different people want different things.
 

urmie

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"No more waiting".......so basically crunch then? Is that the message to devs currently working on games?
 
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I guess if the customers are good with eating a PB&J it makes no sense asking the chef to whip up a sirloin.

That is changing the goal posts from Sony has put out more Xbox games to well MS has put up Xbox games but Sony's games are better overall. It's clear MS hasn't managed their game releases as well as Sony but e3 is next month. I'm will to see what they have.


Game quality is subjective and if you love quality multi-player games Sony doesn't really make those games at all. Different people want different things.
Can you give me some examples of some quality multi-player games that MS 1st party have relased on XsX? How about any quality game for that matter? Kinda the premise of this thread, its time for them to show if they got the goods and are capable because as of right now the answer is an objective no.
 
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DaGwaphics

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I guess if the customers are good with eating a PB&J it makes no sense asking the chef to whip up a sirloin. For those that want a steak, hey theres a restaurant for that.

I was not downplaying the importance of great software. I was just responding to @ Papacheeks Papacheeks who had mentioned console sales. Obviously I'd love it if they had released all the software that they've announced already (great times for me), but realistically they wouldn't have sold anymore consoles than they have already (because they've sold them all). That's all I was saying. Same for Sony.
 
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Papacheeks

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I was not downplaying the importance of great software. I was just responding to @ Papacheeks Papacheeks who had mentioned console sales. Obviously I'd love it if they had released all the software that they've announced already (great times for me), but realistically they wouldn't have sold anymore consoles than they have already (because they've sold them all). That's all I was saying. Same for Sony.

Where did I mention console sales? I made a inference that quality software moves units. Which has been proven by PS5 npd, and switch npd.

Microsoft needs to show a software from internal studios. Then relying on Bethesda is a crutch. They just bought them. They didn't fund any if the software that has been in production for years.


Their internal management of studios is what is at question.
 

Elder Legend

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Mark my words when I say this but I would honestly keep expectations on the lower end here - simply because COVID has really messed things up. I would argue that E3 2022 is really where its going to be at. I hate saying this, but I will be 100% transparent with you, I think most people will walk away disappointed with Microsoft's showing this year. I know we all have been waiting, but I might have to ask you to wait 1 more year.

Disclaimer - Despite me working in the Industry and heavily working with Microsoft in the past for many years, this is a PERSONAL prediction and only based on educational and logical guesses. I do NOT actually know anything inside-wise. So, please do not claim that I've said this and that.

You will most likely see

Halo Infinite SP/MP - Much More Improved with November Release Date
Forza Horizon 5 With September Release Date set in Mexico
Starfield Blowout
Forza Motorsport 8 for 2022
State of Decay 3 is a possibility
Perfect Dark - Possible gameplay snippet and a 2022 Holiday game
Everwild Update
1 New IP
More Game Pass stuff/surprises
Elden Ring (From Software mostly shows their stuff at Microsoft pressers, Dark Souls II, Dark Souls III, Sekiro and Elden Ring all were world premiers at Microsoft E3 stages)

You will most likely NOT see

Gears 6 - Too early and a 2024/2025 game (E3 2023 most likely)
Fable - Too early and a 2023/2024 game (E3 2022, 100% shown)
Hellblade 2 - Too early and a 2023/2024 game (E3 2022, 100% shown)
Awoved - Too early and another 2023/2024 game (E3 2022, 100% shown)
Multiple New IPs (E3 2022/E3 2023)
DOOM 3 - Too early (E3 2022 possible)
 
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Papacheeks

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Mark my words when I say this but I would honestly keep expectations on the lower end here - simply because COVID has really messed things up. I would argue that E3 2022 is really where its going to be at. I hate saying this, but I will be 100% transparent with you, I think most people will walk away disappointed with Microsoft's showing this year. I know we all have been waiting, but I might have to ask you to wait 1 more year.

Disclaimer - Despite me working in the Industry and heavily working with Microsoft in the past for many years, this is a PERSONAL prediction and only based on educational and logical guesses. I do NOT actually know anything inside-wise. So, please do not claim that I've said this and that.

You will most likely see

Halo Infinite SP/MP - Much More Improved with November Release Date
Forza Horizon 5 With September Release Date set in Mexico
Starfield Blowout
Forza Motorsport 8 for 2022
State of Decay 3 is a possibility
Perfect Dark - Possible gameplay snippet and a 2022 Holiday game
Everwild Update
1 New IP
More Game Pass stuff/surprises
Elden Ring (From Software mostly shows their stuff at Microsoft pressers, Dark Souls II, Dark Souls III, Sekiro and Elden Ring all were world premiers at Microsoft E3 stages)

You will most likely NOT see

Gears 6 - Too early and a 2024/2025 game (E3 2023 most likely)
Fable - Too early and a 2023/2024 game (E3 2022, 100% shown)
Hellblade 2 - Too early and a 2023/2024 game (E3 2022, 100% shown)
Awoved - Too early and another 2023/2024 game (E3 2022, 100% shown)
Multiple New IPs (E3 2022/E3 2023)
DOOM 3 - Too early (E3 2022 possible)

We've been hearing wait one more year for a long time. And your acting like Alot of these newly found studios will automatically hit it out of the park

Playground games, obsidian, are the only studios have faith in to get it right on the first take.
 

Elder Legend

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We've been hearing wait one more year for a long time. And your acting like Alot of these newly found studios will automatically hit it out of the park

Playground games, obsidian, are the only studios have faith in to get it right on the first take.
Yes, I know you've been hearing wait one more year for a long time. This was supposed to be the year, but COVID happened, so things naturally got delayed and you have to accept that fact that Microsoft won't show all the goods they originally anticipated. This is not me trying to defend anyone, and you have the right to be upset about it if you wish, but the bottom line is that a change happened in the world and sadly its out of everyone's control no matter how much money you'd throw at people to get the job done. It threw everyone out of a loop. You cannot deny this fact plain and simple. Microsoft is not the only one affected by this, but so is Nintendo and Sony, but they do not need to prove as much for obvious reason and they coming off a good momentum. Maybe MS can show a bunch of CGI trailers, but let's be real, people will cry anyway about that too.

Yes, I think Playground Games can def hit it out of the park. Obsidian I am not sure, I enjoyed Outer Worlds but it was not as good as I was hoping it would be.

I am mostly interested in seeing what Bethesda, Coalition, Playground Games and The Initiative will pull off.
 
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truth411

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Yes, I know you've been hearing wait one more year for a long time. This was supposed to be the year, but COVID happened, so things naturally got delayed and you have to accept that fact that Microsoft won't show all the goods they originally anticipated. This is not me trying to defend anyone, and you have the right to be upset about it if you wish, but the bottom line is that a change happened in the world and sadly its out of everyone's control no matter how much money you'd throw at people to get the job done. It threw everyone out of a loop. You cannot deny this fact plain and simple. Microsoft is not the only one affected by this, but so is Nintendo and Sony, but they do not need to prove as much for obvious reason and they coming off a good momentum. Maybe MS can show a bunch of CGI trailers, but let's be real, people will cry anyway about that too.

Yes, I think Playground Games can def hit it out of the park. Obsidian I am not sure, I enjoyed Outer Worlds but it was not as good as I was hoping it would be.

I am mostly interested in seeing what Bethesda, Coalition, Playground Games and The Initiative will pull off.
Here's my problem with that. Halo Infinite was already in development for almost 5 years when covid hit back in march of last year and was scheduled to be a launch title. That means they should have been in close to polishing/fix bugs phase of development. Covid is being used as an excuse for bad time/development management.

343 is 700-750 devs strong in size, there a huge studio. Studios 1/3 in size are bring out game during the covid pandemic.

For crying out loud their competitors over at Guerilla Games develop Horizon 2 while growing from 200+ to about 450 devs while at the same time moving to a larger studio, while at the same time continue development during the pandemic and most likely launch this Holiday.

Horizon 2: Cross gen open world game. 450~ devs and 4 3/4 year development.

Halo Infinite: Cross gen semi open world game. 700-750 devs and 6 year development.

The multi-change in leader over the years at 343 shows that Covid was not the primary problem. It Smells like bad Leadership.
Its still amazing to me that we still to this day haven't seen any Halo Infinite footage or screenshots on Xbox Series X, Just PC!!! On a title that should have launched last year.
Not even a screenshot.
 

DarkMage619

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Can you give me some examples of some quality multi-player games that MS 1st party have relased on XsX? How about any quality game for that matter? Kinda the premise of this thread, its time for them to show if they got the goods and are capable because as of right now the answer is an objective no.
Are you talking exclusively for the XSX or over the lifetime of the Xbox brand? MS has already said they are pushing cross gen and PC releases so there will never be XSX only titles. Pretty much every game MS puts out is multi-player; Sea of Thieves, Gears, Forza, and Halo. Based on the past to conclude that in the future they won't be able to top those past releases is folly. I appreciate them not following Sony with the types of games they make they just need to release more with regularity. E3 is next month I'm pretty sure they'll figure it out. They've never had this many studios before.
 

S0ULZB0URNE

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This point in the war its now or never.

Major acquisition not some UBIsux type of purchase.

New unknown current gen looking games.

Fixing Halo Infinite and Gamepass announcements won't be enough.
 

Elder Legend

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Here's my problem with that. Halo Infinite was already in development for almost 5 years when covid hit back in march of last year and was scheduled to be a launch title. That means they should have been in close to polishing/fix bugs phase of development. Covid is being used as an excuse for bad time/development management.

343 is 700-750 devs strong in size, there a huge studio. Studios 1/3 in size are bring out game during the covid pandemic.

For crying out loud their competitors over at Guerilla Games develop Horizon 2 while growing from 200+ to about 450 devs while at the same time moving to a larger studio, while at the same time continue development during the pandemic and most likely launch this Holiday.

Horizon 2: Cross gen open world game. 450~ devs and 4 3/4 year development.

Halo Infinite: Cross gen semi open world game. 700-750 devs and 6 year development.

The multi-change in leader over the years at 343 shows that Covid was not the primary problem. It Smells like bad Leadership.
Its still amazing to me that we still to this day haven't seen any Halo Infinite footage or screenshots on Xbox Series X, Just PC!!! On a title that should have launched last year.
Not even a screenshot.

Are you talking exclusively for the XSX or over the lifetime of the Xbox brand? MS has already said they are pushing cross gen and PC releases so there will never be XSX only titles. Pretty much every game MS puts out is multi-player; Sea of Thieves, Gears, Forza, and Halo. Based on the past to conclude that in the future they won't be able to top those past releases is folly. I appreciate them not following Sony with the types of games they make they just need to release more with regularity. E3 is next month I'm pretty sure they'll figure it out. They've never had this many studios before.
That's completely false and is a lie. They said you will be seeing crossgen titles for at least 2 years.

Awoved, Fable are XSX only titles along with Perfect Dark. Please stop spreading misinformation and check your facts.
 
Apr 4, 2020
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Are you talking exclusively for the XSX or over the lifetime of the Xbox brand? MS has already said they are pushing cross gen and PC releases so there will never be XSX only titles. Pretty much every game MS puts out is multi-player; Sea of Thieves, Gears, Forza, and Halo. Based on the past to conclude that in the future they won't be able to top those past releases is folly. I appreciate them not following Sony with the types of games they make they just need to release more with regularity. E3 is next month I'm pretty sure they'll figure it out. They've never had this many studios before.
Thought i made it pretty clear, give me one example of a quality game MS 1st party studio has released on XsX since its launch? Or should we continue to wait because you are "pretty sure they'll figure it out"?
 

Three

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Where did I mention console sales? I made a inference that quality software moves units. Which has been proven by PS5 npd, and switch npd.

Microsoft needs to show a software from internal studios. Then relying on Bethesda is a crutch. They just bought them. They didn't fund any if the software that has been in production for years.


Their internal management of studios is what is at question.
MS aren't concerned about pushing units of software or hardware. Gears tactics and Hivebusters being mentioned is also strange. One is a DLC the other released 6 months before the Series consoles. MS output has been complete crap but part of why it doesn't matter is because their strategy is subscriptions and as long as they are growing that and 'engagement' they couldn't give a rats ass, especially as they have people here defending them in any case.
 

Bonfires Down

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Mark my words when I say this but I would honestly keep expectations on the lower end here - simply because COVID has really messed things up. I would argue that E3 2022 is really where its going to be at. I hate saying this, but I will be 100% transparent with you, I think most people will walk away disappointed with Microsoft's showing this year. I know we all have been waiting, but I might have to ask you to wait 1 more year.

Disclaimer - Despite me working in the Industry and heavily working with Microsoft in the past for many years, this is a PERSONAL prediction and only based on educational and logical guesses. I do NOT actually know anything inside-wise. So, please do not claim that I've said this and that.

You will most likely see

Halo Infinite SP/MP - Much More Improved with November Release Date
Forza Horizon 5 With September Release Date set in Mexico
Starfield Blowout
Forza Motorsport 8 for 2022
State of Decay 3 is a possibility
Perfect Dark - Possible gameplay snippet and a 2022 Holiday game
Everwild Update
1 New IP
More Game Pass stuff/surprises
Elden Ring (From Software mostly shows their stuff at Microsoft pressers, Dark Souls II, Dark Souls III, Sekiro and Elden Ring all were world premiers at Microsoft E3 stages)
That sounds excellent to me even without State of Decay and Perfect Dark. I haven't kept up here but are people really expecting more than this?