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No HDR with 1440p/120fps on Xbox Series S/X

dcx4610

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I figured I'd post this just for those that were looking into hooking up their S/X to a 1440p monitor to get 120ps.

I decided recently to get an Xbox Series X to compliment my PC. Thanks to quick resume and for games that don't need a lot of horsepower and/or games where I'm fine with 60fps, I figured I'd play them on the Xbox. I also liked the idea of Xbox and 360 backwards compatibility and some games offering 120fps support. At the same time, I figured it would be a good time to upgrade my monitor since mine was HDMI 1.4. didn't have HDR and didn't support 120hz over HDMI.

I went with an Asus that supports 170hz (120 & 144), HDR and is 1440p. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like you can run the Xbox Series X (or S I'm presuming) with the combination of 1440p+120fps+HDR. If you try running a game (I tested Ori and the Will of the Wisps for example), it says 120fps not detected and automatically changed the resolution to 4K/2160p at 60fps. I decided to disable 4K from the Xbox settings. It then allowed me to run the game at 1440p at 120fps but there is no HDR.

I don't know if this is a bandwidth limitation with HDMI 2.0 or if it's simply Microsoft locking HDR to 4K. I know HDR isn't for everyone but even with a HDR400 monitor, I think it looks pretty amazing and is preferable to having it off. I just wish I could have all 3 going at the same time. Does anyone know if it's a bandwidth problem or is there a chance we can convince Microsoft to allow HDR at 1440p via firmware update?

I would have loved to have just gotten a 4K/120+hz monitor but the first HDMI 2.1 is just now coming out and will be around $2k. We're not quite there yet.
 

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Allandor

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Well, that is the fault of the Monitor companies. I also have an "HDR" (400) Monitor from acer. But when activating Freesync, HDR is no longer possible (freesync premium required). When activating 144Hz, 10bit color is no longer possible. Only going to 1440p 120Hz 10Bit or HDR is possible. It also says it has DP1.4, but actually only the bandwidth of DP1.2 is used. This is just the normal "featurefucking" of the companies. They can do everything but not at the same time.
And btw, do yourself a favor and don't use HDR on a HDR400 display. It is barely noticeable and makes the image worse than without HDR.
 
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Kuranghi

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I think its both a bandwidth and an output mode limitation of HDMI 2.0b.

Source: If set my PC to output 1440p@120hz and then turn on HDR in Windows, then it works fine, but I'm only able to output 1440p@120 + 8-bit w/ dithering + 4:4:4 chroma (RGB), it won't let me change to 422 and get true 10-bit output so since the XSX can't output 8-bit w/ dithering, its trying to output 1440p@120 + 10-bit + (presumably) 4:2:2 chroma to keep within the 18Gbps bandwidth, but if that mode isn't supported then it will disable HDR outright.

If you had HDMI 2.1 then it would be able to output 1440p@120hz + 10-bit + 444/RGB and you'd get HDR. I really wish they would add 8-bit + dithering to the consoles (PS5 for me, but sounds like XSX could use it too), because I don't have HDMI 2.1 and I don't care about true 10-bit output, I'd prefer to have 4K@60 + 8-bit w/ dithering + 444/RGB Full when outputting HDR instead of 4K@60 + 10-bit + 422/RGB Limited.

8-bit + dithering vs 10-bit makes fuck all difference in practice, in fact sometimes banding is reduced with 8b+d vs 10b. That and Vincent Teoh was showing how 422 vs. 444/RGB Full actually compresses the hell out of the dynamic range and lowers the peak brighness of the HDR massively in MM at least:



Peak brightness goes from 730 nits in the same scene to 1200 nits! My TV can do 1600+ nits so thats super crap for me, screw that true 10-bit and give me dithered 8-bit so I can get more of those sweet, sweet nits.
 
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dcx4610

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From what I'm reading, it does seem like HDR is locked to 4K. There are people with 1080p/HDR monitors reporting they also can't use HDR. Meanwhile, those some people can play with HDR at 1080 on the PlayStation.

Not sure why Microsoft has it locked to 4K but looks like it was also an issue on the Xbox One S and X. Not looking good for this getting fixed.
 

Allandor

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From what I'm reading, it does seem like HDR is locked to 4K. There are people with 1080p/HDR monitors reporting they also can't use HDR. Meanwhile, those some people can play with HDR at 1080 on the PlayStation.

Not sure why Microsoft has it locked to 4K but looks like it was also an issue on the Xbox One S and X. Not looking good for this getting fixed.
?? HDR 1080p Monitors? Never seen one.
Most "HDR"-like monitors are only HDR 400 and that is not even the minimum spec for HDR supported by TVs.
 
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Nikana

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From what I'm reading, it does seem like HDR is locked to 4K. There are people with 1080p/HDR monitors reporting they also can't use HDR. Meanwhile, those some people can play with HDR at 1080 on the PlayStation.

Not sure why Microsoft has it locked to 4K but looks like it was also an issue on the Xbox One S and X. Not looking good for this getting fixed.

Its not.
 
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dcx4610

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?? HDR 1080p Monitors? Never seen one.
Most "HDR"-like monitors are only HDR 400 and that is not even the minimum spec for HDR supported by TVs.
Asus makes several. HDR is pretty standard now.

 

Warnen

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hope these features start to trickle down into the more affordable TVs/monitors. When my brothers kids chucked a toy into my 120hz qled vrr tv and broke it, I didn’t want to drop another $1200 on a replacement so went with a cheaper tv that’s missing all that stuff….
 
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dcx4610

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Uncheck 4K in your Xbox settings and tell me if you get HDR. You won't...

People with HDMI 2.1 TVs aren't going to have this problem because 120hz is supported at 4K. If you have a 4K TV, you can pick 120hz or 1440/120hz. It's still running natively at 4K and will allow HDR.

This is specifically for people with 1440p monitors. I can't find a single source of someone that has 1440p+120hz+HDR running all at once. Or even 1080p+120hz+HDR.
 

Reizo Ryuu

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I'm seeing the same behaviour on my xh90 + xsx. There is -no- HDR if the output isn't in UHD.
If I set the console to 1080p, but allow to switch to UHD for certain apps, then everything that stays in 1080p has no HDR but things that switch, like amazon prime will have HDR.
 

HeisenbergFX4

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Uncheck 4K in your Xbox settings and tell me if you get HDR. You won't...

People with HDMI 2.1 TVs aren't going to have this problem because 120hz is supported at 4K. If you have a 4K TV, you can pick 120hz or 1440/120hz. It's still running natively at 4K and will allow HDR.

This is specifically for people with 1440p monitors. I can't find a single source of someone that has 1440p+120hz+HDR running all at once. Or even 1080p+120hz+HDR.

I 100% have 4k unchecked I am running 1440p 120hz with HDR enabled on my LG 27GN950 and HDR kicks in when playing Ori, just tested it
 

Allandor

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Asus makes several. HDR is pretty standard now.

And that is just the Standard HDR400 thing. Not really worth noting as it makes everything worse instead of better. HDR 400 is not recognized by anything as HDR capable. Just by windows, and it doesn't really work that well.
It is just a marketing buzzword without anything behind it. Far away from the HDR10 "norm" or dolby vision.
24.5" Asus TUF Gaming VG258QM - Specifications (displayspecifications.com)
It is also only an 8bit display so not even capable of wide color gamut and this is something you should update to, first, before even thinking about HDR. 8bit is just not good enough.
And monitors are far, far away from achieving good HDR implementations for a reasonable price.

I 100% have 4k unchecked I am running 1440p 120hz with HDR enabled on my LG 27GN950 and HDR kicks in when playing Ori, just tested it
27" LG 27GN950 - Specifications (displayspecifications.com)
This is a HDR600 (where HDR more or less begins to make sense) with at least 10-bit via dithering and supports HDR10. This can be the difference.
 
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Nikana

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Uncheck 4K in your Xbox settings and tell me if you get HDR. You won't...

People with HDMI 2.1 TVs aren't going to have this problem because 120hz is supported at 4K. If you have a 4K TV, you can pick 120hz or 1440/120hz. It's still running natively at 4K and will allow HDR.

This is specifically for people with 1440p monitors. I can't find a single source of someone that has 1440p+120hz+HDR running all at once. Or even 1080p+120hz+HDR.
Its not locked by the xbox. Its the EDID of the monitor not being compliant. Theres literally someone in this thread saying its working.
 
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ethomaz

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Your monitor / TV accept 4k signal.

If your monitor doesn’t accept 4k signal it can’t use HDR in 1080p or 1440p in 120Hz.

I think that explain it better.
 
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HeisenbergFX4

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Your monitor / TV accept 4k signal.

If your monitor doesn’t accept 4k signal it can’t use HDR in 1080p or 1440p in 120Hz.

I think that explain it better.

So the 1440p monitors that accept a 4k signal this will work with?

When I get back to Indiana I can test this with the LG 27gl850 and the Samsung CHG70 as both of those 1440p monitors accept a 4k signal
 

ethomaz

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So the 1440p monitors that accept a 4k signal this will work with?

When I get back to Indiana I can test this with the LG 27gl850 and the Samsung CHG70 as both of those 1440p monitors accept a 4k signal
Yes. If your 1440p screen can accept 4k signal it will allow HDR + 120Hz in both 1440p and 1080p mode.

It is a bandwidth limitation of the monitor.

That is what I understood... I can’t test.
 
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dcx4610

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I 100% have 4k unchecked I am running 1440p 120hz with HDR enabled on my LG 27GN950 and HDR kicks in when playing Ori, just tested it
This is a 4K/144hz monitor. It's going to support 1440/120hz. This is for people without 4K displays and specifically native 1440p panels. HDR works with the 4K box enabled. If you uncheck the 4K box and look at the 4K Details button, it says HDR not supported.
 

Kuranghi

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I have 1440p/120hz with HDR on my LG 27GN950, I just checked on my Series X and its only HDMI 2.0 with an HDR 600 display

/dunno



How does this make sense when the box costing $500 does 4k 120 with HDR?

I don't know where you would find this information because I only have PS5, but can I ask what the console says its outputting when you're doing 1440p120 + HDR?
 

HeisenbergFX4

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I don't know where you would find this information because I only have PS5, but can I ask what the console says its outputting when you're doing 1440p120 + HDR?

Things are not as easy to find in the PS5 while using this monitor as it just shows performance mode and without sitting back down and playing with it I think on this monitor it will only do 1080p 120hz.
 

captainraincoat

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monitor is your problem op....only tvs allow that at the moment
i dont think there are any hdmi 2.1 pc monitors in the wild yet
 

ethomaz

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monitor is your problem op....only tvs allow that at the moment
i dont think there are any hdmi 2.1 pc monitors in the wild yet
There are some 1440p monitors that supports 4k signals and so allow 1440p 120Hz HDR I believe.

BTW the ROG Strix XG43UQ is HDMI 2.1 compatible.
 
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Kuranghi

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Does the monitor have Display Port then? This thread seems to indicate that HDMI input HW can be limited below what the monitor is advertised as supporting:


If thats the case then maybe this can help?


edit - Hmm, doesn't mention HDR though, prob abort on that lol

Just cry yourself to sleep until you get a 2.1 display instead.
 
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dcx4610

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There are some 1440p monitors that supports 4k signals and so allow 1440p 120Hz HDR I believe.

BTW the ROG Strix XG43UQ is HDMI 2.1 compatible.
My monitor allows a 4K signal but since HDMI 2.1 is required for 4K/120fps, it will display that content at 4K/60fps. If you uncheck 4K support, it allow 1440/120 but then you lose HDR.

It seems that the "Allow 4K" box has to be checked to get HDR unless you have a native 4K panel. Then you can run 1440+120+HDR.

Unless someone can prove otherwise, I think 1440p native displays are going to be stuck at 1440/120 without HDR or 2160p with HDR (if your monitor allows it). You'll have to get a 4K TV or monitor (just now coming out and ridiculously expensive) or a 4K monitor with 120hz+ which would down res to 1440p.

I have a feeling it's more game related than OS. Ori for example is sending a 4K/120hz signal. If the "Allow 4K" box is checked, it's going to try to run at 4K/120hz even if your monitor is set to 1440p. Since that signal doesn't work on HDMI 2.0, it will change it to 4K/60fps. If the game itself supported a native resolution of 1440p, I have a feeling HDR would work. I guess we'll have to see down the line if any games will support that resolution and what will happen.
 

xion4360

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Maybe something changed in one of the recent firmware updates, but last i checked you could not get HDR without 4K out of the xbox ... ill see again when i get home I have a CX
 

xion4360

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yeah I confirmed it..

I have no idea why anyone in this thread is claiming otherwise, but it has nothing to do with bandwith...the XBOX simply will not send out an HDR signal if it is not in 4K.

does not matter what kind of HDMI cable you have, or what refresh rate...HDR only works in conjunction with 4K output. if you set your console to 1440p or anything lower than 4K but do no uncheck "Allow 4K" the console might switch to 4K when starting a game or app...and then support HDR because it is now in 4K output. If you have one of those monitors that accepts a 4K signal but displays at 1440p that is the only way you will get HDR because the console itself is still outputting 4K.

This is exactly as it was with the XBOX One S/X...

The PS5 like the PS4 will output HDR regardless of resolution as long as your display supports it.
 
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HeisenbergFX4

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yeah I confirmed it..

I have no idea why anyone in this thread is claiming otherwise, but it has nothing to do with bandwith...the XBOX simply will not send out an HDR signal if it is not in 4K.

does not matter what kind of HDMI cable you have, or what refresh rate...HDR only works in conjunction with 4K output. if you set your console to 1440p or anything lower than 4K but do no uncheck "Allow 4K" the console might switch to 4K when starting a game or app...and then support HDR because it is now in 4K output. If you have one of those monitors that accepts a 4K signal but displays at 1440p that is the only way you will get HDR because the console itself is still outputting 4K.

This is exactly as it was with the XBOX One S/X...

The PS5 like the PS4 will output HDR regardless of resolution as long as your display supports it.

When I tried COD Cold War on my monitor it does do 120 hz and HDR kicks in while in 1440p 120 with 4K unchecked so I know it’s not just my panel since you are testing it with a CX.

Btw is your output set to auto or forced HDMI with manual settings as I am using manual settings.

I don’t know it makes a difference for HDR but it can with 1440 120
 
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xion4360

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When I tried COD Cold War on my monitor it does do 120 hz and HDR kicks in while in 1440p 120 with 4K unchecked so I know it’s not just my panel since you are testing it with a CX.

Btw is your output set to auto or forced HDMI with manual settings as I am using manual settings.

I don’t know it makes a difference for HDR but it can with 1440 120

It won't work if I do the HDMI override..it wont register all of the TV's capabilities and wont accept 4K or HDR... I can get 1440p 60 or 1080 120 but most of all the options wont work.

also to note the signaling method is treated as an HDMI 2.0 if you run anything under 4K 120..so you cant do 4K60 444 cs even though you obviously could..its just that the xbox will treat that as an HDMI 2.0 signal and use 422..this is the only thing that I prefer the PS5 with..it takes full advantage of your display capability with the exception that there is no VRR yet and it tops out at 4K 120 422 while the xbox does 4K 120 444..but its not a big deal really, to me at least.
 
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01011001

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yeah I confirmed it..

the XBOX simply will not send out an HDR signal if it is not in 4K.

it's simply not true tho... I just tried setting my SX to 1440p and it supports HDR in that mode with Allow 4K unchecked

I just recorded this (it's in german, but I think this needs no translation lol)


it does not support it at 120hz tho because the bandwidth of my TV's HDMI is not good enough (although I haven't tried at 1080p... I might do that quick)

edit: I was wrong see 5 posts below
 
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HeisenbergFX4

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it's simply not true tho... I just tried setting my SX to 1440p and it supports HDR in that mode with Allow 4K unchecked

I just recorded this (it's in german, but I think this needs no translation lol)


it does not support it at 120hz tho because the bandwidth of my TV's HDMI is not good enough (although I haven't tried at 1080p... I might do that quick)

Same with the pictures I posted above not sure I quite understand the explanation as to why people are saying it won’t work without 4K as a lot of that stuff is over my head.

But there is no doubt I am running 1440p 120hz and HDR kicks in so I am missing something because my signal is not reverting to 4K
 
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dcx4610

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When I tried COD Cold War on my monitor it does do 120 hz and HDR kicks in while in 1440p 120 with 4K unchecked so I know it’s not just my panel since you are testing it with a CX.

Btw is your output set to auto or forced HDMI with manual settings as I am using manual settings.

I don’t know it makes a difference for HDR but it can with 1440 120
It sounds like the difference is you have a 4K/2160p native monitor. Even if you uncheck 4K, your panel is still 2160p natively. COD then down rezzes to 1440p/120 and still allows the HDR since the native signal is still 4K.

For us with 1440p panels, our native signal is 1440p. Ori for instance is sending a signal to render at 2160p at 120hz. If your monitor is 1440p/120, it doesn't understand that input and forces 2160p/60 if you have allow 4K selected. Even though the monitor is 1440p, it can accept a 2160p signal. Not all monitors can do this.

If you then go into the Xbox settings and disable 4K input, that prevents Ori from changing your resolution out of 1440p/120 but then disables HDR since for whatever reason, Microsoft thinks that only 2160p panels can do HDR.

At least that's how I'm understanding it so far from all I've tried and read. Perhaps it's the EDID, but I still can't find anyone that has 1440p+HDR+120fps working on a native 1440p panel. A 4K panel, yes.
 

xion4360

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it's simply not true tho... I just tried setting my SX to 1440p and it supports HDR in that mode with Allow 4K unchecked

I just recorded this (it's in german, but I think this needs no translation lol)


it does not support it at 120hz tho because the bandwidth of my TV's HDMI is not good enough (although I haven't tried at 1080p... I might do that quick)
what does that prove? youre not running anything. lol

at no point did I or anyone say the HDR option will disappear if your console is not set to 4K...what im saying is you will not start any game or app with HDR without 4K output.
 
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01011001

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what does that prove? youre not running anything. lol

at no point did I or anyone say the HDR option will disappear if your console is not set to 4K...what im saying is you will not start any game or app with HDR without 4K output.

HeisenbergFX4 HeisenbergFX4 ok I tested this and it's actually true... wtf? ok people have to bring Microsoft's attention to this, because that's kinda stupid, this has to be a really dumb oversight.

when I start a game that has HDR the system doesn't actually use HDR and the auto HDR option is greyed out if you go into the game's compatibility options
 
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HeisenbergFX4

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It sounds like the difference is you have a 4K/2160p native monitor. Even if you uncheck 4K, your panel is still 2160p natively. COD then down rezzes to 1440p/120 and still allows the HDR since the native signal is still 4K.

For us with 1440p panels, our native signal is 1440p. Ori for instance is sending a signal to render at 2160p at 120hz. If your monitor is 1440p/120, it doesn't understand that input and forces 2160p/60 if you have allow 4K selected. Even though the monitor is 1440p, it can accept a 2160p signal. Not all monitors can do this.

If you then go into the Xbox settings and disable 4K input, that prevents Ori from changing your resolution out of 1440p/120 but then disables HDR since for whatever reason, Microsoft thinks that only 2160p panels can do HDR.

At least that's how I'm understanding it so far from all I've tried and read. Perhaps it's the EDID, but I still can't find anyone that has 1440p+HDR+120fps working on a native 1440p panel. A 4K panel, yes.

Yeah I am super curious on both my 1440p panels back home I really want to test this but those panels also accept a 4K signal and I am quite certain the Samsung CHG70 was kicking in HDR running games 1440 120. In turn makes sense since the monitor would accept the 4K signal from my PS4 Pro and as a side note that Samsung had 4K grayed out for my Xbox as Xbox likes to do things automatically