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No Changes to Xbox Live Gold Pricing, Free-to-Play Games to be Unlocked [Update]

Mahadev

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This is nothing for MS.

They always listen to backlashes.

XB One launch, Halo Infinite reveal come to mind, along with this.


They listen to backlash after they've been completely out of touch with gamers and gaming culture. Imagine thinking that the already huge ripoff that is pay to play online won't receive huge backlash after you double its price. How could I easily predict this and the professionals can't?
 

kyliethicc

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I honestly just want to know who there was boneheaded enough to think rolling the change out the way they did was a smart idea. You don't need a business degree or years of industry experience to see how the idea of a price hike that massive itself (let alone the way they pushed it out) would result in anything but disaster.

It's a real shame because now it feels like their momentum has taken several steps back and they'll have to work overtime to regain lost ground. They just won't have a lot of time to do so; I'm hoping they can pull it off but if they're thinking simply reversing the plans and doing away with the paywall for FTP is enough then they will need to reconsider.



Exactly, and that's actually the worst part of it: the lost trust. Rebuilding that trust is going to take time and/or a hell of a good round of solids. But it's up to Microsoft, specifically the Xbox division, to do that now and figure out what is best to do in rebuilding that trust. I have my own ideas on that:

-Free XBL Gold for current and new users for 3 months (let users choose the months)

-Free Gamepass Ultimate for current and new users for 1 month (let users choose the month)

-Some 1P gameplay for at least two AAA games (over time, but before Spring rolls in. Take a page from Sony and do 20-minute shows like for GoT)

-Some good surprises in terms of ecosystem exclusives announced and/or shown off (if with gameplay, even better) once the Zenimax deal is cleared

And that's probably maybe halfway there xD. They have to above and beyond now.
Here's the easy (but expensive) way for Xbox to win the PR war and push Game Pass:

Announce that Xbox Live is cancelled and folded into basic Game Pass, the $10/month one. All the perks of Live Gold are now in GP.
Upgrade everyone with current Live subs to Game Pass for however long they have a sub currently.
Leave free to play actually free to play.
Instantly make every person with Live a GP sub.
Give people "no reason" to complain about the $10/month for online (cuz GP)
Focus marketing Game Pass Ultimate at $15/month the tier with GP PC, Xcloud, ea play basic, etc. The extra perks.

That would make them look "better" and actually achieve what they want.. which is to get rid of Live and move everyone to GP subs.

Xbox tried to force users to pay $120/year for Live and $120/year for GP .. or $180/year for GPU. Better off for now just trying to get everyone currently at $60/year for Live to sub to GP for $120/year. Not quite as profitable as the $180/year goal, but halfway. And would be perceived as less scummy.
 
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They listen to backlash after they've been completely out of touch with gamers and gaming culture. Imagine thinking that the already huge ripoff that is pay to play online won't receive huge backlash after you double its price. How could I easily predict this and the professionals can't?
They predicted the possibility like with all moves to go either way (low backlash and acceptance, or high backlash and damage). They just decided to go ahead with the move to see how the market reacts.

From their pov, if they don't throw the trial balloons they would never know if there was a chance it could have been accepted by the market - just like with the initial Xbox Live subscription back when the 360 launched. They want your money, and to suck you dry - that is the bottomline. So consumers slapped them on the wrist....so what? Back to the drawing board on how to make that money. It's like asking a girl out... you never know if she'll say Yes, unless you ask. If you assume No, you'll never get laid for sure.
 
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dvdvideo

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Sep 15, 2005
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Here's the easy (but expensive) way for Xbox to win the PR war and push Game Pass:

Announce that Xbox Live is cancelled and folded into basic Game Pass, the $10/month one. All the perks of Live Gold are now in GP.
Upgrade everyone with current Live subs to Game Pass for however long they have a sub currently.
Leave free to play actually free to play.
Instantly make every person with Live a GP sub.
Give people "no reason" to complain about the $10/month for online (cuz GP)
Focus marketing Game Pass Ultimate at $15/month the tier with GP PC, Xcloud, ea play basic, etc. The extra perks.

That would make them look "better" and actually achieve what they want.. which is to get rid of Live and move everyone to GP subs.

I think this was actually the "plan", but they were going to wait and call it a "free" upgrade.
 

longdi

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Nah none of this was planned. They literally sent cards out to retailers prepared to sell them to consumers. The backlash they received will be remembered more than the good that comes from reversing it. Remember the backlash that fucked MS over last gen? Even though they reversed all their shitty policies, it was too late. Of course this isn't as big but definitely adds up.

Doubt people will remember this next month.
I can see it being extra fuel for console warring.

But with how fast this came and went, damage is limited. Casuals probably havent caught wind of it.
Thankfully Phil stop it being a new #movetopsnow meme. Memes pretty much destroyed XO foundation :messenger_grinning_sweat:

Imo MS would have announced the price hike next week during their quarterly earnings report.
This is embarrassing now. Doubling the rates does seem excessive when i rethink.
Sony is reporting theirs on 02-02, i wonder if Jim has a surprise for us? 🤷‍♀️
 
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Novacain

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Glad that enough people held them accountable.

There's nobody to praise except the people who spoke up and were ready to vote with their wallet on this bullshit - they tried to get away with a massive price gouge and got caught with their pants down. Microsoft deserves forgiveness for back pedaling this nonsense, but they don't deserve any praise for any element of anything here.
 

Mahadev

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They predicted the possibility like with all moves to go either way (low backlash and acceptance, or high backlash and damage). They just decided to go ahead with it to see how the market reacts.

From their pov, if they don't throw the trial runs, they would never know if there was a chance it could have been acceptable. They want your money, and to suck you dry - that is the bottomline.


They could have used the boiling frog strategy and slowly increase the price but they're so greedy they immediately doubled it. I will never trust this fucking company with anything, they're the ones who introduced pay to play online, microtransactions and a crapload of other anti-consumer policies to consoles. I still remember how they banned Valve from releasing a free DLC in early 360 days to push as hard as possible their new back then paid DLC idea.
 
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Here's the easy (but expensive) way for Xbox to win the PR war and push Game Pass:

Announce that Xbox Live is cancelled and folded into basic Game Pass, the $10/month one. All the perks of Live Gold are now in GP.
Upgrade everyone with current Live subs to Game Pass for however long they have a sub currently.
Leave free to play actually free to play.
Instantly make every person with Live a GP sub.
Give people "no reason" to complain about the $10/month for online (cuz GP)
Focus marketing Game Pass Ultimate at $15/month the tier with GP PC, Xcloud, ea play basic, etc. The extra perks.

That would make them look "better" and actually achieve what they want.. which is to get rid of Live and move everyone to GP subs.

Xbox tried to force users to pay $120/year for Live and $120/year for GP .. or $180/year for GPU. Better off for now just trying to get everyone currently at $60/year for Live to sub to GP for $120/year. Not quite as profitable as the $180/year goal, but halfway. And would be perceived as less scummy.

It's almost a shame when forum posters can propose better business plans than the six-figure suits hired by near two-trillion dollar megaconglomerates 😌
 
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kyliethicc

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I think this was actually the "plan", but they were going to wait and call it a "free" upgrade.
Its clearly their longterm plan. They want Game pass to be the basic yearly sub instead of Live.

They're just not sure how to move everyone over. Its fundamentally about getting $60/year subs to pay $120-180/year. Hence the sneaky scummy moves.
 

Self

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Very good move MS, but also... very bad move. I have mixed feelings about it. The attempt alone was just disgusting, but they listened. Phew...
 

Larlight

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Doubt people will remember this next month.
I can see it being extra fuel for console warring.

But with how fast this came and went, damage is limited. Casuals probably havent caught wind of it.
Thankfully Phil stop it being a new #movetopsnow meme. Memes pretty much destroyed XO foundation :messenger_grinning_sweat:

Imo MS would have announced the price hike next week during their quarterly earnings report.
This is embarrassing now. Doubling the rates does seem excessive when i rethink.
Sony is reporting theirs on 02-02, i wonder if Jim has a surprise for us? 🤷‍♀️

Depends. What about the casuals that did find out? Since they released this reversal news on a Friday night, they may never even know about the reversal and already made up their mind and will tell their next casual friend. Word of mouth is powerful.
 
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longdi

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Its clearly their longterm plan. They want Game pass to be the basic yearly sub instead of Live.

They're just not sure how to move everyone over. Its fundamentally about getting $60/year subs to pay $120-180/year. Hence the sneaky scummy moves.

There is nothing scummy or sneaky.
It is just business.
And this gen, the console hardware is definitely losing them a lot more upfront than last.
Expect to see price hikes across the industry very soon.
 

dvdvideo

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Its clearly their longterm plan. They want Game pass to be the basic yearly sub instead of Live.

They're just not sure how to move everyone over. Its fundamentally about getting $60/year subs to pay $120-180/year. Hence the sneaky scummy moves.

Its not all bad, at least they are actually offering something for the extra money.
There is probably even a big group that doesn't realize what they are missing.
 
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vaibhavpisal

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They listen to backlash after they've been completely out of touch with gamers and gaming culture. Imagine thinking that the already huge ripoff that is pay to play online won't receive huge backlash after you double its price. How could I easily predict this and the professionals can't?

We could get explanation for this if Phil and company was ready to give straight answers.

So rest assured, we won't know the thought process.

A roll back was prepared already it seems.
 
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sinnergy

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Very good move MS, but also... very bad move. I have mixed feelings about it. The attempt alone was just disgusting, but they listened. Phew...
Its such a big corporation with all kinds of execs , and I imagine Covid doesn’t help either ... to align everyone , that and living in a target based world that is driven by money and greed most of the time ..

I am glad someone, probably Phil stepped in ..
 
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sinnergy

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I thought Spencer was at the top table now? Are you saying this price rise happened without his approval? 😂

Teflon Phil wins again I guess.
At least action is taken 😉 that’s what counts.. everyone can make mistakes, it’s more about how you fix them.

For example , has Sony done anything to counter the game prices , which now tower 80 dollars ... think about all those who lost their jobs in Covid times ..

Its easy to point out mistakes .. giving credit is much harder .. right .

Corrected in less than a day ..
 
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They could have used the boiling frog strategy and slowly increase the price but they're so greedy they immediately doubled it. I will never trust this fucking company with anything, they're the ones who introduced pay to play online, microtransactions and a crapload of other anti-consumer policies to consoles. I still remember how they banned Valve from releasing a free DLC in early 360 days to push as hard as possible their new back then paid DLC idea.
You have MS execs going to Dealer/Colt podcasts.

What do you think those execs opinions/views are of their own consumers when they see that their fans listen to bullshitters like those guys? They be like, "shit, our consumers are dumb as a rock for listening to these idiots"

They know a particular portion of their audience will eat any BS up, defend them for it, and support them. "Till death do us part". It's a no brainer for them to do trial balloons to fuck their consumer base - it's been a wasteland for 7 years.
 
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Halo is Dead

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I thought Spencer was at the top table now? Are you saying this price rise happened without his approval? 😂

Teflon Phil wins again I guess.
Someone will always be ahead of Phil. If he did legit thought this was ok then he should be axed too.
 

DarkMage619

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What are you doing?
Mocking your childish name calling. Internet tough guys are the best people. You don't like the price hike neither did I. I only put it in perspective seeing how there was exactly ONE place where you'd be paying the higher price and since it's been reversed MS is the only console manufacturer with free online for f2p titles AND free cloud saves. Rough road to get here but it's a win regardless.

It thas nothing to do with brand allegiance. Sony wasn't the first who raised the price for games. Development cost goes higher, other will raise the price sooner or later.
Who was the first to announce $70 console games? Has MS or Nintendo published any $70 titles?
 
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Panajev2001a

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At least action is taken 😉 that’s what counts.. everyone can make mistakes, it’s more about how you fix them.

For example , has Sony done anything to counter the game prices , which now tower 80 dollars ... think about all those who lost their jobs in Covid times ..
And again Teflon Phil, move over to a Sony-too(TM) argument when other deflections fail to stick :LOL:.

Great they reversed it, but let’s not make him a saint because he tried something, was caught, and rolled back.$80 I heard PS5 games were towering $110 now, rising by the day ;).

You are trying to manipulate the discussion there with the COVID-19 angle about people that lost their jobs... and your angle is? Well, let’s see: taking about $399-499 consoles and some $59 games being $69 now (as if price drops and deals were not there and if PS5 did not include a free packed in game too) and then either using the Spider-Man: Remastered + Miles Morales combo package pricing or taking the price in £ in the U.K. converted back to $ as if it made a valid point to justify the “towering” $80 angle. Yeah, monsters.

Again, and this is the pattern: on the Xbox side “hope springs eternal” and on the PS side “something is never concerning enough, it must be worse somehow, let me speculate how”:
 
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TBiddy

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You have MS execs going to Dealer/Colt podcasts.

What do you think those execs opinions/views are of their own consumers when they see that their fans listen to bullshitters like those guys? They be like, "shit, our consumers are dumb as a rock for listening to these idiots"

They know a particular portion of their audience will eat any BS up, defend them for it, and support them. "Till death do us part". It's a no brainer for them to do trial balloons to fuck their consumer base - it's been a wasteland for 7 years.

Never change D’Force. Never change. Even in a thread like this, you try to turn it into list wars.
 

Panajev2001a

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Never change D’Force. Never change. Even in a thread like this, you try to turn it into list wars.
Are you agreeing with his list of items then? Not sure what this comment really does more than just leaving a triggered emoji or something... which fair it also applies a bit to this post.
 
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Banjo64

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Here's the easy (but expensive) way for Xbox to win the PR war and push Game Pass:

Announce that Xbox Live is cancelled and folded into basic Game Pass, the $10/month one. All the perks of Live Gold are now in GP.
Upgrade everyone with current Live subs to Game Pass for however long they have a sub currently.
Leave free to play actually free to play.
Instantly make every person with Live a GP sub.
Give people "no reason" to complain about the $10/month for online (cuz GP)
Focus marketing Game Pass Ultimate at $15/month the tier with GP PC, Xcloud, ea play basic, etc. The extra perks.

That would make them look "better" and actually achieve what they want.. which is to get rid of Live and move everyone to GP subs.

Xbox tried to force users to pay $120/year for Live and $120/year for GP .. or $180/year for GPU. Better off for now just trying to get everyone currently at $60/year for Live to sub to GP for $120/year. Not quite as profitable as the $180/year goal, but halfway. And would be perceived as less scummy.
As someone subbed to GPU but who can’t use PC Game Pass, and isn’t too bothered by xCloud or EA Play; this is the one I’m hoping for in the future. Game Pass for console and Gold rolled in to one for less than £9.99 a month.

Ultimate is £10.99 at the moment, which is an amazing price, but I can see that creeping up to £12.99 or more sooner or later.

I think once they increase the Ultimate price, they’ll introduce the lower tier option.

Still beggers belief we didn't gave anything like this backlash over the huge price increase for PS5 games

It’s really sad, £70 in the UK. If you can wait until the end of the gen, like now, Sony’s ‘essential collection’ (basically, their best games) always end up costing £7-£10.


It thas nothing to do with brand allegiance. Sony wasn't the first who raised the price for games. Development cost goes higher, other will raise the price sooner or later.

Rules for thee and not for me. It’s a shit house move from Sony, but no chance will it be reversed.
 
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Never change D’Force. Never change. Even in a thread like this, you try to turn it into list wars.
D'Ghost*, and previously, well you dig it up. Knitted_Knight whenever the mods allow. If you see list wars in a post about psychological behavior leading to decision making then you got a problem (although I already guessed that long ago). Was nice to see you active in the Hitman DF thread... been a while.
 
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Panajev2001a

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Not spending a lot of effort disagreeing though, I do not think it is unfair talking about feeding those toxic Influencers and why you would want to do that... dismissing it as nonsense like that just makes it stuck a bit more in most cases 🤷‍♂️.
 
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Not spending a lot of effort disagreeing though, I do not think it is unfair talking about feeding those toxic Influencers and why you would want to do that... dismissing it as nonsense like that just makes it stuck a bit more in most cases 🤷‍♂️.
Maybe he watches them and took personal offense. You never know... it's what it's.

Edit: Praise be the mod reading. Finally a true Knitted Knight. I'm out as to not overstay my welcome. :messenger_blowing_kiss:
 
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TBiddy

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Not spending a lot of effort disagreeing though, I do not think it is unfair talking about feeding those toxic Influencers and why you would want to do that... dismissing it as nonsense like that just makes it stuck a bit more in most cases 🤷‍♂️.

Claiming that the execs consider their customers dumb as rocks is idiotic and doesn’t deserve attention.
 

Kagey K

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Actually not quick enough, the damage is already there unless they shout from the roof tops, which they don’t do by this quiet update.
You assume everyone has already been billed for this new fee and are outraged. The fact that they announced it and reversed it before any money left any hands, means it will be quickly forgotten by most.
 
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Black_Stride

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Actually not quick enough, the damage is already there unless they shout from the roof tops, which they don’t do by this quiet update.
Nobody outside of forum warriors even knows this is news.
The retail cards havent hit the general public, the dashboard hasnt been updated.
So nobody outside of the hardcore actually knows theres been a price hike/no change.

It happened quickly enough someone like me who actually follows gaming news only found out about the price hike yesterday and by the time i woke up this morning it was already back to normal. So casuals (the vast majority of gamers) would not have even heard about this.

All they need to do with the F2P unlock is now announce a port of Waifu Simulator 2020 at 4k120 and the only news story people will hear is the F2P on Xbox is finally F2P.