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(NJ) Anti-bullying law sparks new fights as accused students appeal in court

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Ripclawe

Banned
http://blog.nj.com/ledgerupdates_im...=/2013/04/anti-bullying_law_sparks_appea.html
on April 26, 2013 at 6:34 AM, updated April 26, 2013 at 12:49 PM






NEWARK — Dressed in sneakers, dark pants and a sweater, looking more like he was ready to sit down with a teacher or coach than a judge, a Ridgewood teenager took the witness stand recently in a Newark courtroom.

Speaking in a low voice, the 15-year-old addressed the issue at hand: Whether he had called a girl in his eighth-grade class "horse," "fat" or "fat **s" — and whether any comments made violated what has been called the toughest anti-bullying law in the country.


"I never made any remarks other than horse," the teen testified. "I did not have any intent."

The case before Administrative Law Judge Jeffrey Gerson was brought by the boy and his father to appeal the Ridgewood School Board’s decision that the teen bullied a middle school classmate last year.

The case is typical of a new type of legal phenomenon winding through New Jersey’s courts — one not entirely foreseen by many educators and legislators when the state enacted one of the most stringent anti-bullying laws in the country in 2011. The alleged bullies are filing appeals and their parents, often worried about a bullying charge staining a child’s school record, are getting involved in hearings before judges from the state Office of Administrative Law.

At least 16 students, parents or teachers have filed appeals with the commissioner of education since New Jersey’s Anti-Bullying Bill of Rights took effect in fall 2011; two have been decided so far. An untold number of others — the state does not keep track — have challenged school bullying findings to their local school boards, the first step in the appeal process.

While the overall number may be a small percentage of the more than 12,000 instances of bullying reported in New Jersey schools in the law’s first year, a review by The Star-Ledger of appeals showed the issues can get complicated. Many cases involve social media or electronic communication; some pertain to events that did not take place at school. Incidents range from elementary to high school.

"The potential for harm is there. I think that’s why we’re all here today," the father of the Ridgewood boy said in court. Neither he, nor his son nor the alleged bullying victim are being identified by The Star-Ledger, because the teens are juveniles.

Often the cases require the courts to bring the wisdom of a King Solomon to teenage talk overheard in school halls.

Consider:

• …In Toms River, a high school student allegedly bullied another by re-tweeting a list of student’s names marked with the word "grenade." The alleged bully’s parents appealed, saying the school board "overreacted to a minor incident."

The court file includes a page from the website urbandictionary.com, defining "grenade" as "the solitary ugly girl always found with a group of hotties."

• …In South Plainfield, a couple is charging that their daughter’s algebra teacher bullied her — after the school board decided otherwise. The parents said the teacher embarrassed and intimidated the girl, starting by calling her out in class for wearing a skirt the teacher felt was too short.

• And at the Union County Vocational-Technical School, where a girl allegedly committed bullying with "insensitive" Twitter postings, the alleged bully’s father challenged the school board. The father, who called his daughter’s messages "affectionate … slang," said the tweets "were not directed at any specific victim … but were everyday electronic messages among teenage associates."

He also said the school district "demonstrated profound ignorance of English vernacular" by accusing her of bullying.

Attorney Silvana Raso of Englewood Cliffs, who works on bullying cases, said sometimes the allegations sound like they involve "stupid things."

"Teenagers can do stupid things at times. Kids can do things that are ill-advised. But if a school feels it is harassment, intimidation or bullying, the school has to take action," she said. "Even though to an outside observer it looks like just one instance of a child calling someone by a bad name, usually there has been some (other) conduct between these two students."

One of Raso’s clients is a Westwood boy whose parents sued the school board last year in Superior Court, alleging he was bullied. One month later, the school said Raso’s client himself committed bullying.

His parents say the boy — who now attends private school — was harassed because of his Muslim faith.

Some experts say they expect an increasing number of appeals under the bullying law, while others believe the number will drop as the law becomes more familiar.

Attorney John Croot, a partner at Schwartz Simon Edelstein & Celso, which represents about 80 school districts, said he has seen fewer cases appealed to school boards this year. "I think common sense has begun to play into this a little bit," Croot said.

In the Ridgewood case, three school officials — the superintendent, a middle school principal and an anti-bullying specialist — spent a morning in court as the judge attempted to sort out whether the boy made bullying comments to his eighth-grade classmate. The boy is now a Ridgewood High School freshman.

"She was very upset," testified anti-bullying specialist Lara Sheer, who investigated the accusation in May 2012. "She believes the comments were made to her because she’s not as skinny as some of her friends."

The boy said he did not think she was heavy, however, and testified that other kids also called her "horse."

Ridgewood school board attorney Jeffrey Merlino countered that. "There is no evidence she condoned being called a horse," he said.

New Jersey’s anti-bullying law was adopted after a series of highly publicized suicides across the nation, including the death of Rutgers freshman Tyler Clementi. The law has been the subject of much discussion since.

The Ridgewood case delved into one issue that has arisen: What type of paper trail follows a bullying complaint.

Ridgewood Superintendent Daniel Fishbein testified that a record of a bullying determination will remain in the boy’s school file in his district, and Ridgewood must also report the information to the state, using the teen’s student identification number.

He said his district does not transmit disciplinary records to colleges with academic transcripts, when the time comes for college applications. But if the boy’s family moved, he did not know how the information would be handled.

The Ridgewood boy’s father said that threat was too great.

"I don’t feel what my son said to this young woman constitutes violation of the harassment, intimidation and bullying law," he said. "It’s possible that this could track my son through college graduation."
 
Court? Wtf. I really dont think a law is what's needed here.

Where is the line drawn between breaking balls and bullying? Sometimes mere ball breaking is blown way out of proportion.

I can see this causing more harm than good.
 
anti-bully laws passed because parents are too unwilling to discipline their own children. so the parents of said children go to court to fight the bully charges, teaching the children valuable lessons about violating the law and being a douchebag while still trying to get away with it.
 
So all this garbage clogging up the legal system because parents are too afraid to allow teachers/administrations to punish bullying at the source?

Cowards.

Where is the line drawn between breaking balls and bullying? Sometimes mere ball breaking is blown way out of proportion.

Bullies see everything they do as "harmless ball breaking." Because children are stupid. They need discipline, not prosecution.
 
What kind of insult is "horse"?

Horse Detective

4CGO7I0.jpg
 

KPJZKC

Member
Court? Wtf. I really dont think a law is what's needed here.

Where is the line drawn between breaking balls and bullying? Sometimes mere ball breaking is blown way out of proportion.

I can see this causing more harm than good.

"mere ball breaking"?

If any complaint is made its not "mere ball breaking".

Problem doesn't just lie with parents by the way, teachers are just as responsible for ignoring situations or like growing up in good old Ireland, punishing children for trying to get help.
 

Angry Fork

Member
Don't like anti-bullying laws when it comes to speech, or any laws in general limiting speech. All words should be allowed anywhere at all times with the exception of some threats that aren't comedic ("I'm going to stab/shoot you tomorrow morning" etc.). Teachers and school faculty should deal with bullying on their own.

But in school the kids doing the insulting usually say the dumbest shit anyway. Like if someone's name was Jason they'll call him Gayson (I don't know if 'gay' is still used as an insult these days, but it was when I was a kid). Nobody should be arrested for shit like that even if it's stupid.
 
anti-bully laws passed because parents are too unwilling to discipline their own children. so the parents of said children go to court to fight the bully charges, teaching the children valuable lessons about violating the law and being a douchebag while still trying to get away with it.
Yep, someone has to do it. It has been a problem for way too long. Ideally this should start and end with the parents, but when they can't do their jobs... :/

Unfortunately I can see how this might get out of hand when it involves the courts. Every little thing is going to be an offense worthy of litigation.
 
Don't like anti-bullying laws when it comes to speech, or any laws in general limiting speech. All words should be allowed anywhere at all times with the exception of some threats that aren't comedic ("I'm going to stab/shoot you tomorrow morning" etc.). Teachers and school faculty should deal with bullying on their own.

I strongly disagree. Bullying and verbal insults are a barrier to education. What do you think about kids being blatantly racist to other kids by the way? Or swearing in the classroom?

Because there's no middle ground to be had between children committing suicide and legal action being taken against a kid calling another kid "horse", right?

That has worked so well for the last 40 years.
 
This is good. I'd rather have overblown cases than children killing themselves because no one was there for them.

Asking the courts to control this is, is to admit that we can't control our kids. I refuse to accept that.

Are parents so clueless they can't tell their kid is an annoying disruptive shit until they're dragged in front of a judge?
 
its unfortunate we pay our teachers crap and expect them to educate to high standards and act as counselors. We're treating the symptoms here in court instead of the cause. And thats much more fundamental.
 
The school doesn't know a lot of the time since telling authority figures makes it worse. And the parents some of these kids have, well it's the reason they're bullying in the first place.
 

slit

Member
Asking the courts to control this is, is to admit that we can't control our kids. I refuse to accept that.

Are parents so clueless they can't tell their kid is an annoying disruptive shit until they're dragged in front of a judge?

Well, you have to accept it because there are always going to be parents who can't or won't control their offspring.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Asking the courts to control this is, is to admit that we can't control our kids. I refuse to accept that.

Are parents so clueless they can't tell their kid is an annoying disruptive shit until they're dragged in front of a judge?

In my experience, yes. Parent's don't want to believe that their kids are bullies, you usually need to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.
 
Asking the courts to control this is, is to admit that we can't control our kids. I refuse to accept that.

Are parents so clueless they can't tell their kid is an annoying disruptive shit until they're dragged in front of a judge?

Alas, this is the case. When parents get called to school for the misbehaviour of their child, their reply is not "I'm sorry", but it is "my child is perfect, he/she would never do such a thing!". We can take steps to resolve THAT but that is only one case of encouraging bullying behaviour.
 

cameron

Member
In my experience, yes. Parent's don't want to believe that their kids are bullies, you usually need to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.

In addition, there are some instances with crappy parents who are proud that their kid is a bully and rationalize it in so many shitty ways (e.g. "at least he/she isn't a whiny crybaby!"). These are the parents who label a school's zero-tolerance policy on bullying/fighting as the "pussification" of our children or whatever nonsense.
 

Angry Fork

Member
I strongly disagree. Bullying and verbal insults are a barrier to education. What do you think about kids being blatantly racist to other kids by the way? Or swearing in the classroom?

Everyone should be allowed to be racist or insult others without being arrested/fined for it in legit court of law. If it's disrupting the class and the teacher can't handle it put them in a class with other shitty kids and deal with it there. There's a name for it I can't remember right now but there was always a class in my schools dedicated to 'bad' and slow (mentally) kids.

edit - I should have mentioned I'm not in favor of 'anything goes' when it comes to journalism/news, obviously I don't think lies should be allowed and presented as fact just because they're words, but that's another issue.
 
Everyone should be allowed to be racist or insult others without being arrested/fined for it in legit court of law. If it's disrupting the class and the teacher can't handle it put them in a class with other shitty kids and deal with it there. There's a name for it I can't remember right now but there was always a class in my schools dedicated to 'bad' and slow (mentally) kids.

edit - I should have mentioned I'm not in favor of 'anything goes' when it comes to journalism/news, obviously I don't think lies should be allowed and presented as fact just because they're words, but that's another issue.


This! Wow can't believe how many are for this law. You punish or segregate the problem children within the school. Not pass some flimsy subjective constitution trampling bullshit law. Also, considering the common bullying of GAF in general this thread is quite ironic. And yes people there are teens/preteens on here.
 

Dead Man

Member
Everyone should be allowed to be racist or insult others without being arrested/fined for it in legit court of law. If it's disrupting the class and the teacher can't handle it put them in a class with other shitty kids and deal with it there. There's a name for it I can't remember right now but there was always a class in my schools dedicated to 'bad' and slow (mentally) kids.

edit - I should have mentioned I'm not in favor of 'anything goes' when it comes to journalism/news, obviously I don't think lies should be allowed and presented as fact just because they're words, but that's another issue.

In general, sure. I think there is a case to be made to have a lower tolerance for such behaviour in schools. Kids are more vulnerable, and in a school environment it is easy to have a group of people teaming up against one person. Courts should be an absolute last resort, but I don't think having a freedom of speech on the playground is more important than making sure every kid is safe and healthy.
 
Parents need to do their fucking jobs.

ha, like they are gonna start now, you thought it was bad with "WTF u meen all games arent for kids!? I have to check the contant!? sueeee everyoneee!!!"" from the 90s violence era, that shit is small potatoes compared to our internet baby sitter world nowadays.


then again I can imagine life being fucking awful for the bullied in this always on social media circus we live in now, at least back then you could get away from it.
 
This! Wow can't believe how many are for this law. You punish or segregate the problem children within the school. Not pass some flimsy subjective constitution trampling bullshit law. Also, considering the common bullying of GAF in general this thread is quite ironic. And yes people there are teens/preteens on here.

I think some of you are kind of funny if you think freedom of speech should or would be guaranteed in schools.
 
Kids learn by emulating their parents. If they're assholes, the kids are gonna be assholes. More discipline isn't the answer. It's just gonna piss them off more. Parents need to set a good example.
 
Kids learn by emulating their parents. If they're assholes, the kids are gonna be assholes. More discipline isn't the answer. It's just gonna piss them off more. Parents need to set a good example.

Parents need to but plenty fail miserably. The idea that parents need to better doesn't hold up with the consistent reality, that any asshole can be a parent.


Read the op. Half of it was outside of school

Yeah but they already have precedent to overreach like with cyber bullying.
 
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