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Opinion Nintendo's "Withered Technology" Philosophy in hardware literally means: "Wait until its cheap / avoid cutting edge" and gamer's are still upset...

Phase

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One aspect I love about gaming is being impressed, and Nintendo hasn't really impressed me since the n64. They're falling farther behind as the years go by. Old tech, old looking games, gameplay we've seen before. Meanwhile, PC and the other consoles are pushing the market forward. I can't blame Nintendo for their technical stagnation considering the money they rake in but I do hope their strategy changes. Maybe the Steam Deck can give them a kick in the ass.
 

Hoddi

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Nintendo, Apple, and nvidia have all described themselves as software companies more than hardware. And they aren't wrong.

The only reason I haven't bought a Switch yet is because I already own a Wii U and have played most of the big name games. It's the lack of software that keeps me from getting a Switch more than how modern it is.
 
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godhandiscen

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There is just something magical about Nintendo games that makes the hardware shine.

The Switch was my first Nintendo console since the Super Nintendo, and I was marveled that it was able to capture the joy I used to feel when I was a kid. Years of playing PlaysStation and Xbox games had led me to believe I had grown bored of video games. However, Nintendo made me realize that games just had mostly stopped being fun and started aiming for dumb metrics such as micro transactions and engagement.

I am glad Nintendo exists as a company because their philosophy is truly different from the rest, and they maintain the essence of what made them great from the beginning until now.

PS: When I was younger, I went through an edge lord phase when I used to make fun of Nintendo and their fans. If I ever ridiculed some poster here for liking “kidtendo” please forgive me.
 
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SlimySnake

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Withered Technology has 3 strict laws:
  1. Wait until the tech is cheap.
  2. Wait until the tech is understandable (easy to develop on / for)
  3. Avoid Cutting edge tech.
Pop Quiz: what display tech hit all three of that right now?

A:

Withered Tech ----> Lateral Thinking = New Product
Old tech -------> Use it in a new way = $$$

LCD screen found in Calculators --> Handheld gaming = GAMEBOY
infrared IR found in TV remote -------> Motion control = Wii Remote
Tablets-----------------------------------> Gaming tablet = Switch

MiniDVD and Cartridge and so on...


Im not really defending the philosophy, as i too sometimes yearn for Nintendo to do something "cutting edge"; but to get mad at Nintendo at doing what works generation after generation, is tiresome.

Maybe we should ignore "insiders" and curb our reactions and look at it from an outsider POV


On point. Nintendo is never going to release something cutting edge. they learned their lesson from N64 and Gamecube. they sold like shit. DS, wii, switch on the other hand? This aint even a choice. every time they cheap out, they see success.

I say let Nintendo be Nintendo. sony and MS are doing their best to give you some insanely powerful hardware that no seems to be able to take advantage of at the moment anyway. yes, nintendo's top studios wont produce fancy looking games, but nintendo innovates so let them innovate. the Wii didnt end up being the revolution anyone wanted, but it opened the door to vr controls. the switch might not be my cup of tea, but its a handheld thats doing console quality games. last gen console quality games, but console quality nonetheless.

it's time to let nintendo go. who knows? they just might pull another wii and surprise us all next gen, and the industry would be better for it.
 

Umbasaborne

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One aspect I love about gaming is being impressed, and Nintendo hasn't really impressed me since the n64. They're falling farther behind as the years go by. Old tech, old looking games, gameplay we've seen before. Meanwhile, PC and the other consoles are pushing the market forward. I can't blame Nintendo for their technical stagnation considering the money they rake in but I do hope their strategy changes. Maybe the Steam Deck can give them a kick in the ass.
Nintendo was putting out some of the best looking games of the era on the gamecube. People like to forget it but the gamecube was a beefy little box. It was more powerful than the ps2
 

Hoddi

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One aspect I love about gaming is being impressed, and Nintendo hasn't really impressed me since the n64. They're falling farther behind as the years go by. Old tech, old looking games, gameplay we've seen before. Meanwhile, PC and the other consoles are pushing the market forward. I can't blame Nintendo for their technical stagnation considering the money they rake in but I do hope their strategy changes. Maybe the Steam Deck can give them a kick in the ass.
This is one place where I'll actually stand up for Nintendo. The Wii U is easily my favorite Nintendo system ever made and that's by a long shot.

It just failed in marketing so now everyone thinks it was a shitty system. It really wasn't and it has some of the best games that Nintendo has ever made. The Switch has largely been coasting off the Wii U library and it's for a damn good reason.
 

bender

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One aspect I love about gaming is being impressed, and Nintendo hasn't really impressed me since the n64. They're falling farther behind as the years go by. Old tech, old looking games, gameplay we've seen before. Meanwhile, PC and the other consoles are pushing the market forward. I can't blame Nintendo for their technical stagnation considering the money they rake in but I do hope their strategy changes. Maybe the Steam Deck can give them a kick in the ass.

Pushing the market forward how though? Sony's almost completely focused on cinematic first person shooters and Ubisoft styled open world games. Microsoft has let their tent pole franchises stagnate and their strategy to get out of that tailspin is acquisition. We are years away from seeing those trees bare fruit. And I'm not knocking anyone for liking those types of games, but the majority of their output is following trends rather than setting them.

Nintendo certainly isn't without fault, but they have more game ass games that feel like toys than the rest of the competition. Beyond A few highs here and there, I've been pretty down on Nintendo consoles since the SNES but I really love the Switch. Having all of Nintendo's development efforts on one platform is a treat.
 
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MagnesG

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The switch is sold on a tiny handful of exclusives in addition to a bunch of ports, they automatically loose the port game so if even one of these key games is perfectly emulated on a similar device it has a large impact on the desirability of the system. BOTW emulation is apparently already almost perfect, within the lifespan of the system I see no reason why the best switch game wouldn't be perfectly playable on a competitors system. If Nintendo isn't concerned about this they they have their heads in the sand.
Go back to preschool and count how many exclusives are sold vs overall ratio for Switch. Tiny handful my ass.

BOTW game pyschics on emulation are still buggy. So much for the added performance. Maybe perfectly playable a couple years later considering 50k$ the devs got every month mainly for fixing this game.
 
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None of those things matter. Apple consumers don't buy Apple for the Hardware just like Nintendo Consumers don't buy for its spec. it about the content of the software. Your still not realizing that Nintendo, like Apple, aren't in competition with clones or rivals, if anything their more closely in competition with themselves. At thier their own pace.
Shure.
That's why are getting sooooo much.... WiiU ports! 🤡
 

cireza

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Selling deprecated hardware is a thing, but simply make native resolution / 60fps games for it, even if they look like PS2 games. That's all I ask. With readable text on a handheld screen, that's the second thing I ask.
 
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Zannegan

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Selling deprecated hardware is a thing, but simply make native resolution / 60fps games for it, even if they look like PS2 games. That's all I ask. With readable text on a handheld screen, that's the second thing I ask.
Would you accept DLSSed "native resolution" at 60fps? I'm hoping their next gen hybrid (assuming it is a hybrid, assuming the DLSS rumors are true, etc.) is able to squeeze more out of the hardware maintain a solid frame rate without things getting noticeably blurry using Nvidia's upscaling tech. None of that will help the CPU though, so here's hoping they go hard there.
 

cireza

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Would you accept DLSSed "native resolution" at 60fps? I'm hoping their next gen hybrid (assuming it is a hybrid, assuming the DLSS rumors are true, etc.) is able to squeeze more out of the hardware maintain a solid frame rate without things getting noticeably blurry using Nvidia's upscaling tech. None of that will help the CPU though, so here's hoping they go hard there.
I am not too hot about things that are being calculated (pretty sure there will be noticeable problems), I would rather have native stuff, even if it looks like Virtua Racing. But that's the opinion of someone who has been playing video-games for 30 years, so I understand they don't care much about it. People seem to be satisfied with the current Switch looking at the sales anyway.
 
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Trimesh

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sure, we can pretend the DS wasn't plagued by piracy in it's latter years, so much that all subsequent systems have had massive amounts of effort poured into anti piracy measures, leading to the switch which doesn't even have a web browser or any multimedia apps because they are afraid of vulnerabilities.

My point is that it's pretty much irrelevant - the PS1, PS2 and Xbox 360 also had very high levels of piracy, but they were by any standard highly successful systems. The Xbox One was never hacked in any meaningful way, and it did ... just OK.
 
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The switch is about to be emulated by a clone. People are going to be playing switch games at higher framerates on it while it's still alive. you can't compete on content when your competitor steals all your content while offering almost every game ever released along side it. Also, personally speaking first party switch games are some of the most underwhelming Nintendo games in recent memory, all the best games are actually WiiU ports.
Do you expect the Steam Deck to emulate the Switch at higher framerates than native hardware?
 
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Banjo64

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I would take a small/modest power upgrade for Switch 2. I’m not expecting it to be twice the power or anything.

The Oled/small bezzle needs to be standard now.

What I really want (and I doubt we’ll get it) is a more social profile - handles, messaging, voice chat etc.
 
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Trimesh

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Selling 50 millions consoles is just OK ? lol. Even the Neo Geo was profitable at its level of sales, as it was still being sold until 2004.

It's certainly not a failure by any means - but it does serve as a fairly clear indication that having good security technology doesn't really have much to do with market dominance.
 

Zannegan

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I would take a small/modest power upgrade for Switch 2. I’m not expecting it to be twice the power or anything.

The Oled/small bezzle needs to be standard now.

What I really want (and I doubt we’ll get it) is a more social profile - handles, messaging, voice chat etc.
Less than twice the power for a next generation console after at least five years on the market? I mean, Nintendo has done it before with the Gamecube to the Wii, but that would undercut even my tempered expectations. I really hope you're wrong here, lol.
 

SLB1904

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Damn! I didn't know there was science behind Nintendo cheapness. Oh well.
If what op wrote is actually policy forget about any cutting edge technology from Nintendo
 

Spacefish

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Go back to preschool and count how many exclusives are sold vs overall ratio for Switch. Tiny handful my ass.

BOTW game pyschics on emulation are still buggy. So much for the added performance. Maybe perfectly playable a couple years later considering 50k$ the devs got every month mainly for fixing this game.
I can't count more than 10 must have exclusives worth owning the switch for (personally its just 4), almost all 3rd party games are already releasing on PC. If you can emulate zelda, smash, mario, DK etc.. then its a problem, devs prioritise optimising for these games so even if 95% of the library is buggy, if the 5 everyone wants to play are almost perfect then it eats into the perceived value of the switch. I'm pretty sure the physics bugs with BOTW are to do with doubling the framerate and that it emulates fine at 30fps, I can't verify if this is accurate since I played it on switch and have no interest in emulating it. Relying on the ignorance of the consumer to maintain perceived value is not sustainable long term, it's not a place you want to be and its actually never been true of Nintendo in the past, only Microsoft and Sony.
Do you expect the Steam Deck to emulate the Switch at higher framerates than native hardware?
I expect it to emulate the core line-up at native fps and I wouldn't be surprised if it eliminates frame drops that were present in games like BOTW
The hot takes are coming only because you can emulate games on a “competing” device; like that has ever sold systems.
Nobody ever price gouged so hard on ancient tech that it was able to be emulated on a competing system that only costs $50 more (a mere 4 years into its lifespan). It's not about switch emulation or power for me, the switch is objectively worse on every single level except portability and aesthetics, I'm excited about the general return of the handheld PC.
 
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tassletine

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The OP isn't wrong, but it's the most profitable way of coming up with innovative ideas, which is what Nintendo's key focus is. Everything comes after that.
 
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NeoIkaruGAF

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None of those things matter. Apple consumers don't buy Apple for the Hardware just like Nintendo Consumers don't buy for its spec. it about the content of the software. Your still not realizing that Nintendo, like Apple, aren't in competition with clones or rivals, if anything their more closely in competition with themselves. At thier their own pace.
Not really the same thing. Apple consumers absolutely DO buy Apple products for the hardware. I like my old MBAir more for hardware reasons, certainly not for software. And among the millions of people who buy iPhones and iPads, it’s easy to say most of them just want a well-working toy that makes them part of what is effectively a zeitgeist.

With Nintendo, it’s all about the software. I never enjoyed the hardware side of the WiiU. I think the GC’s pad was probably Nintendo’s worse UI idea ever. And Switch, even not accounting for its power (or lack thereof), isn’t as well-designed as many other Nintendo machines. But there’s really no other way to play their games legit.
 

MagnesG

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I can't count more than 10 must have exclusives worth owning the switch for (personally its just 4), almost all 3rd party games are already releasing on PC. If you can emulate zelda, smash, mario, DK etc.. then its a problem, devs prioritise optimising for these games so even if 95% of the library is buggy, if the 5 everyone wants to play are almost perfect then it eats into the perceived value of the switch. I'm pretty sure the physics bugs with BOTW are to do with doubling the framerate and that it emulates fine at 30fps, I can't verify if this is accurate since I played it on switch and have no interest in emulating it. Relying on the ignorance of the consumer to maintain perceived value is not sustainable long term, it's not a place you want to be and its actually never been true of Nintendo in the past, only Microsoft and Sony.
You sure can't count on what you're saying before, you're not mentioning how many exclusives are selling on Switch, it's nearing half of the overall software sales based on only the available data. Now it's your own version of must-have exclusives that is important. Goalposting at its finest.

See you're not even familiar with the emulation. Those devs are applying quick hacks to fix the problem that you have to switch on and off at times to even proceed through shrines. Expect crashing at least 1-2 per session. That's not user-friendly at all unlike what you're preaching before. What ignorance of the consumer are you talking about?
 

KungFucius

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This isn't about power, this is about the switch and its primary selling point being portable gaming with a dock. A simple gimmick that is easily replicated.
They now have to deal with a competitor with a larger library of games, cheaper games, much better performance, free online with a better infrastructure, free cloud saves, back buttons, analogue triggers, multimedia functionality, functioning Bluetooth for headphones, unlimited support for peripherals and more Nintendo exclusives than the switch. all for $50 more. The switch is in danger of being emulated and subsumed by a clone before its reached its first revision. This was never a problem for the ds line and the 3ds may never have a satisfying way to emulate it, the Wii was likewise impossible to emulate for its entire lifespan.

Android phones have eaten into apples dominance and the only reason apple is still relevant is they provide premium experiences for high prices, Nintendo is now charging a premium for an inferior experience, it's unsustainable without innovation.
Hard to take this seriously since you called Apple a premium experience. There is nothing premium about it, they just charge a lot because people are stupid enough to think it is premium. My work iphone offers a very poor experience compared to the android option in the most critical business apps, email, calendar, etc. Not to mention I had a phone be DOA because the DRM chip that detects non Apple fucking cables was defective and prevented charging. How fucking pathetic. But premium right because apple.

And somehow Nintendo is not providing a premium service with their games because their hardware isn't top of the line. OK. And the reason is because you could emulate the games? What percentage of the 80+ million switch owners do you honestly think will buy a portable PC and emulate/pirate switch games on it?

The Steam Deck is not going to take over the core switch market. It will provide a portable gaming experience that appeals to PC gamers. It will not provide the all in one gaming solution parents will want for their kids and access to new Nintendo games which is why a lot of us keep buying Nintendo systems.

Nintendo will eventually launch a Switch2 and it will be a modest upgrade that will still compare poorly to the other consoles on the market. If the Steam Deck is really a threat then they will innovate and possibly up specs.
 
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REDRZA MWS

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I’ve said it for many, many years now, Nintendo needs to go 3rd party and stop putting the barrier of severely outdated tech on their wonderful games. From a business point of view, it makes perfect sense. If Mario, Zelda, Metroid, and Pokémon were on PS, Xbox, PC, and without having to develop and manufacture outdated tech, Nintendo would absolutely crush it.

I haven’t bought a Nintendo console since the Wii, which I utterly hated, despised. It was a repackaged GameCube with forced motion control in every title. Since then Nintendo is at best one full generation behind the competition, at worst even more.
 

JackMcGunns

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uhm... that's not how the Wii Remote does motion controls. it actually used pretty modern sensors at the time, and the Wii Remote literally has a camera inside of it which then looks for infra red lights sent out by the sensor bar to use that as a reference for an on screen pointer
just because it uses infra red to some degree doesn't mean that's "withered tech"... I never saw a TV remote with a camera inside it you know

also "mini DVD" was pretty new when the GameCube came out, that was the time when DVD just became somewhat adopted by the mainstream... and the GameCube in general was extremely high tech for the time, had a multiple times more powerful GPU than the PS2 for example


Maybe he didn't explain that part correctly, but I get it, Nintendo used tech from last generation (Nintendo GameCube) and slapped it into a different case basically, then added the Wii motes to change the way the system works as something new, rather than updating the inner workings like Sony and Microsoft do, not just every generation, but during refreshes too.
 

Corgi1985

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I think withered tech is a generous descriptor for what they do, I'd call it dumpster diving bottom of the barrel scrapping tech. At this rate they'll get to the power of the X/PS5 in about 6 years. Hell I'd even settle for the power of the series S at this rate.
lol some of their games look worse than gamecube games from 2002. Nintendo isn't even up to xbox standards from 2007 in regards to online and system features. Nintendo might get to PS5 level by 2050
 
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jaysius

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It would be more accurate if the middle was Nintendo fanatics/apologists and the last one was regular gamers.

The Nintendo jingos will eat any bullshit Nintendo squeezes out, while regular gamers starve because the bullshit is so nutrient barren.
 
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Three

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They wait until the technology is cheaper but they take that as profit. How does that benefit me? Why would I be happy about that rather than upset that the hardware is dated?

I'm not necessarily upset but really can you not see why people would not be happy that all they got was an OLED screen?
 
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FStubbs

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I’ve said it for many, many years now, Nintendo needs to go 3rd party and stop putting the barrier of severely outdated tech on their wonderful games. From a business point of view, it makes perfect sense. If Mario, Zelda, Metroid, and Pokémon were on PS, Xbox, PC, and without having to develop and manufacture outdated tech, Nintendo would absolutely crush it.

I haven’t bought a Nintendo console since the Wii, which I utterly hated, despised. It was a repackaged GameCube with forced motion control in every title. Since then Nintendo is at best one full generation behind the competition, at worst even more.
No, they'd become Sega. The reason they can polish their software is because they own the hardware. As a full third party, they have to release software ready or not to keep profits flowing. Also, lol at Metroid. They'd stop making that entirely, because the whole point of IPs like Metroid is to increase a first party portfolio.

Also Nintendo would continue to make games at a AA level. I'm not sure why you think they'd suddenly shoot for the top tier AAA graphics that you desire as a third party.

Just play what's on Xbox or PS. There's room in the market for a platform that does different things.
 
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