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Opinion Nintendo's "Withered Technology" Philosophy in hardware literally means: "Wait until its cheap / avoid cutting edge" and gamer's are still upset...

MegaZoneEX

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Withered Technology has 3 strict laws:
  1. Wait until the tech is cheap.
  2. Wait until the tech is understandable (easy to develop on / for)
  3. Avoid Cutting edge tech.
Pop Quiz: what display tech hit all three of that right now?

A:

Withered Tech ----> Lateral Thinking = New Product
Old tech -------> Use it in a new way = $$$

LCD screen found in Calculators --> Handheld gaming = GAMEBOY
infrared IR found in TV remote -------> Motion control = Wii Remote
Tablets-----------------------------------> Gaming tablet = Switch

MiniDVD and Cartridge and so on...


Im not really defending the philosophy, as i too sometimes yearn for Nintendo to do something "cutting edge"; but to get mad at Nintendo at doing what works generation after generation, is tiresome.

Maybe we should ignore "insiders" and curb our reactions and look at it from an outsider POV



Update:
Damn! I didn't know there was science behind Nintendo cheapness. Oh well.
If what op wrote is actually policy forget about any cutting edge technology from Nintendo

The OP isn't wrong, but it's the most profitable way of coming up with innovative ideas, which is what Nintendo's key focus is. Everything comes after that.

As for Steam Deck....

I foresee "Switch Clone" / UMPC (Steam Deck) doing to the PC Market as they did to the Tablet market in 2015.

They will oversaturate the PC market with UMPCs / mobile gaming PCs. The current chip shortage and scalpers will only make this worst.

Don't be surprised if Steam Deck and all the other UMPcs end up in landfills... and Nintendo will just move on to the next tech...
 
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01011001

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infrared IR found in TV remote -------> Motion control = Wii Remote

uhm... that's not how the Wii Remote does motion controls. it actually used pretty modern sensors at the time, and the Wii Remote literally has a camera inside of it which then looks for infra red lights sent out by the sensor bar to use that as a reference for an on screen pointer
just because it uses infra red to some degree doesn't mean that's "withered tech"... I never saw a TV remote with a camera inside it you know

also "mini DVD" was pretty new when the GameCube came out, that was the time when DVD just became somewhat adopted by the mainstream... and the GameCube in general was extremely high tech for the time, had a multiple times more powerful GPU than the PS2 for example
 
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Azelover

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I think people won't understand Nintendo, but only because they don't want to. It was fucking written on the walls that the thing wouldn't do 4k. You fell for it, you have yourself to blame.

Nintendo is a disruptor, they don't want to be the same as everyone else.
 

MegaZoneEX

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Yeah, except now its withered tech at premium prices. You can't pull this shit without innovating, if their plan is to just update the switch they can't compete against generic clones that run PC games.
but...their not trying to compete. is what you don't realize. Only gamers think they are "trying" to compete with UMPC / switch clones

The fact that we are even seeing Steam Deck and UMPC is proof that it withered.
 

MegaZoneEX

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uhm... that's not how the Wii Remote does motion controls. it actually used pretty modern sensors at the time, and the Wii Remote literally has a camera inside of it which then looks for infra red lights sent out by the sensor bar to use that as a reference for an on screen pointer
just because it uses infra red to some degree doesn't mean that's "withered tech"... I never saw a TV remote with a camera inside it you know

also "mini DVD" was pretty new when the GameCube came out, that was the time when DVD just became somewhat adopted by the mainstream... and the GameCube in general was extremely high tech for the time, had a multiple times more powerful GPU than the PS2 for example

i only put IR but other withered tech like the accelerator and Gyroscope also contributed.


Panasonic....Mini disc.... while new, was the cheaper option still
 
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Corgi1985

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I think people won't understand Nintendo, but only because they don't want to. It was fucking written on the walls that the thing wouldn't do 4k. You fell for it, you have yourself to blame.

Nintendo is a disruptor, they don't want to be the same as everyone else.
A lot of us don't want 4k, I don't know where this thinking comes from. Being able to play korok forest at a fps above 20 would be sufficient. The switch is ancient.
 

Spacefish

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but...their not trying to compete. is what you don't realize. Only gamers think they are "trying" to compete with UMPC / switch clones

The fact that we are even seeing Steam Deck and UMPC is proof that it withered.
That's not my point, Nintendo has to keep morphing in order for this design philosophy to make sense. The switch is the least innovative console they have released since the GameCube era yet also the most overpriced, they have left themselves vulnerable to a third party clone that can easily outcompete them on all levels. Whether Nintendo desires it or not they are forced to deal with an alternative that makes their hardware look like a scam.
 

01011001

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i only put IR but other withered tech like the accelerator and Gyroscope also contributed.


Panasonic....Mini disc.... while new, was the cheaper option still

these mini discs were used for 2 reasons. 1: no DVD licensing fee, 2: Copy protection. so you can't put them in the same category. the format was new
the tech in use was still basically exactly the same as DVD it was simply a proprietary offshoot of it. same with Wii discs, these are simply DVDs that use a proprietary formatting. and the Wii U uses a proprietary BluRay format
 
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01011001

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Some assets from pokemon sword look like they are lifted straight from the n64

that's an issue with Gamefreak and their shitty engine not with the Switch. some textures in Deadly Premonition look like PSP... and the game runs like ass on PS3, so that mist mean the PS3 was outdated PS2 hardware!

Scarlet Nexus looks often times worse than Bayonetta 1 on Switch... so that must mean that the PS5 is outdated tech as well!
 
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MegaZoneEX

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That's not my point, Nintendo has to keep morphing in order for this design philosophy to make sense. The switch is the least innovative console they have released since the GameCube era yet also the most overpriced, they have left themselves vulnerable to a third party clone that can easily outcompete them on all levels. Whether Nintendo desires it or not they are forced to deal with an alternative that makes their hardware look like a scam.

Again, Nintendo doesn't need to nor is forced to handle "alternative". Switch clones / UMPC are not alternative to the Switch which is what has clouded the judgment here. Samsung cloned the hell out of early Iphone and, that was almost 20 years ago.... iPhone is still going strong.

We are too focus on power which is not a metric Nintendo worries about.
 
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kingpotato

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I guess the screen is going to be nicer than the steam deck, but Nintendo is going to need to think hard about the next product after the switch.
 

MegaZoneEX

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these mini discs were used for 2 reasons. 1: no DVD licensing fee, 2: Copy protection. so you can't put them in the same category. the format was new
the tech in use was still basically exactly the same as DVD it was simply a proprietary offshoot of it. same with Wii discs, these are simply DVDs that use a proprietary formatting. and the Wii U uses a proprietary BluRay format
Doesnt "no DVD licensing fee" still means a cheaper option? i dont get it
 

Trimesh

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but...their not trying to compete. is what you don't realize. Only gamers think they are "trying" to compete with UMPC / switch clones

The fact that we are even seeing Steam Deck and UMPC is proof that it withered.

The Sony PCG-U1 came out about 20 years ago. It's not like a UMPC is some kind of recent invention. They have always been an extremely niche product and will remain so - the fact that you're trying to compare UMPCs to a product that's sold nearly 80 million units worldwide is frankly absurd.

Honestly, most of the deranged screeching about Nintendo on here is absurd - they very clearly know what they are doing and have studied their market very well. They also worked out long ago with the original Gameboy that for a portable product the battery life is a key concern - and the people screeching about how it "needs" a 4k screen and a 10TF GPU are just complete fucking retards.
 

platina

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Couldn’t agree more. Nintendo of today = hd towns are hard. I bet their “next gen” iteration is going to be around ps4 spec...that’s ok I guess, they’re in their own little world.
 
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Spacefish

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Again, Nintendo doesn't need to nor is forced to handle "alternative". Switch clones / UMPC are not alternative to the Switch which is what has clouded the judgment here. Samsung cloned the hell out of early Iphone and, that was almost 20 years ago.... iPhone is still going strong.

We are too focus on power which is not a metric Nintendo worries about.
This isn't about power, this is about the switch and its primary selling point being portable gaming with a dock. A simple gimmick that is easily replicated.
They now have to deal with a competitor with a larger library of games, cheaper games, much better performance, free online with a better infrastructure, free cloud saves, back buttons, analogue triggers, multimedia functionality, functioning Bluetooth for headphones, unlimited support for peripherals and more Nintendo exclusives than the switch. all for $50 more. The switch is in danger of being emulated and subsumed by a clone before its reached its first revision. This was never a problem for the ds line and the 3ds may never have a satisfying way to emulate it, the Wii was likewise impossible to emulate for its entire lifespan.

Android phones have eaten into apples dominance and the only reason apple is still relevant is they provide premium experiences for high prices, Nintendo is now charging a premium for an inferior experience, it's unsustainable without innovation.
 

Zannegan

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I don't know if you can really connect the Wii remote to TV remotes, in spite of the common form factor. The IR is not being used in the same way at all. That's like connecting laser mice to laser pointers--common base tech, vastly different application. (sorry for the late edit here, lost my train of thought, lol)

Overall, I agree that this is Nintendo's philosophy, BUT they will shell out for something new/cutting edge if it's important to their hardware vision. Look at the Wii U's video streaming and miracast, or the Switch's HD rumble (though Valve used linear actuators first in a different way). Their values don't always align with the core's, alas, but they will break their rule when necessary.
 
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Dr Bass

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This isn't about power, this is about the switch and its primary selling point being portable gaming with a dock. A simple gimmick that is easily replicated.
They now have to deal with a competitor with a larger library of games, cheaper games, much better performance, free online with a better infrastructure, free cloud saves, back buttons, analogue triggers, multimedia functionality, functioning Bluetooth for headphones, unlimited support for peripherals and more Nintendo exclusives than the switch. all for $50 more. The switch is in danger of being emulated and subsumed by a clone before its reached its first revision. This was never a problem for the ds line and the 3ds may never have a satisfying way to emulate it, the Wii was likewise impossible to emulate for its entire lifespan.

Android phones have eaten into apples dominance and the only reason apple is still relevant is they provide premium experiences for high prices, Nintendo is now charging a premium for an inferior experience, it's unsustainable without innovation.
If this is a reference to the new Steam Deck, I would bet you good money the it does absolutely zero to impact the position Nintendo is in.
 

Omeggos

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I think the issue is a lot of us see what MS and Sony do and expect Nintendo to do the same, even though time and time again they do their own thing.

but I won’t deny that they cut corners with software.
 

Omeggos

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If this is a reference to the new Steam Deck, I would bet you good money the it does absolutely zero to impact the position Nintendo is in.
People thought those steam consoles would end home consoles or that the steam controller would replace the Xbox controller as the dominate pc controller.

neither of these happened, neither will the steam deck affect the switch.
 
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Spacefish

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If this is a reference to the new Steam Deck, I would bet you good money the it does absolutely zero to impact the position Nintendo is in.
Not immediately no, the consumer base is always 5-10 years behind people who know what's up. Ultimately, if they don't innovate Nintendo will face the same dilemma as consoles vs PC. There will be a slow but irreversible erosion as the entire core audience drifts toward the better experience. I suspect this will happen faster than in the home console space because the gulf between the switch and its competitor is gigantic.
 

FStubbs

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People thought those steam consoles would end home consoles or that the steam controller would replace the Xbox controller as the dominate pc controller.

neither of these happened, neither will the steam deck affect the switch.
There's a lot of Nintendo hate these days so it's more people are hoping the Steamdeck runs Nintendo out of business.

Not immediately no, the consumer base is always 5-10 years behind people who know what's up. Ultimately, if they don't innovate Nintendo will face the same dilemma as consoles vs PC. There will be a slow but irreversible erosion as the entire core audience drifts toward the better experience. I suspect this will happen faster than in the home console space because the gulf between the switch and its competitor is gigantic.
I don't think the CPU/GPU gap between the Switch and Steamdeck is as large as DS/PSP or 3DS/Vita.
 
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MegaZoneEX

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This isn't about power, this is about the switch and its primary selling point being portable gaming with a dock. A simple gimmick that is easily replicated.
They now have to deal with a competitor with a larger library of games, cheaper games, much better performance, free online with a better infrastructure, free cloud saves, back buttons, analogue triggers, multimedia functionality, functioning Bluetooth for headphones, unlimited support for peripherals and more Nintendo exclusives than the switch. all for $50 more. The switch is in danger of being emulated and subsumed by a clone before its reached its first revision. This was never a problem for the ds line and the 3ds may never have a satisfying way to emulate it, the Wii was likewise impossible to emulate for its entire lifespan.

Android phones have eaten into apples dominance and the only reason apple is still relevant is they provide premium experiences for high prices, Nintendo is now charging a premium for an inferior experience, it's unsustainable without innovation.
None of those things matter. Apple consumers don't buy Apple for the Hardware just like Nintendo Consumers don't buy for its spec. it about the content of the software. Your still not realizing that Nintendo, like Apple, aren't in competition with clones or rivals, if anything their more closely in competition with themselves. At thier their own pace.
 
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DadEggs

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I mean if you just keep your expectations in check youre fine.

next gen nintendo will fall somewhere around a ps5/xsx....right when sony and microsoft are about to release their ps6 and nextbox
 

Corgi1985

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Not immediately no, the consumer base is always 5-10 years behind people who know what's up. Ultimately, if they don't innovate Nintendo will face the same dilemma as consoles vs PC. There will be a slow but irreversible erosion as the entire core audience drifts toward the better experience. I suspect this will happen faster than in the home console space because the gulf between the switch and its competitor is gigantic.
I want to see nintendo eat shit, but this replacing the switch seems unlikely even though you'll be able to run emulators and play switch games on this better than the switch itself. Also no shit tier paid internet experience. Also no $80 controllers that feel like they came from a cereal box. People will just want to play their pokemon games that are getting progressively shittier without messing around with emulators and whatnot.

Hopefully this does decrease third party switch support though. Would you rather play doom eternal on this or on a system where it looks like vaseline and aliasing are having a party?
 

Spacefish

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it about the content of the software.​
The switch is about to be emulated by a clone. People are going to be playing switch games at higher framerates on it while it's still alive. you can't compete on content when your competitor steals all your content while offering almost every game ever released along side it. Also, personally speaking first party switch games are some of the most underwhelming Nintendo games in recent memory, all the best games are actually WiiU ports.
 
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Corgi1985

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The switch is about to be emulated by a clone. People are going to be playing switch games at higher framerates on it while it's still alive. you can't compete on content when your competitor steals all your content while offering almost every game ever released along side it. Also, personally speaking first party switch games are some of the most underwhelming Nintendo games in recent memory, all the best games are actually WiiU ports.
Pokemon sword was literal dogshit. The worst shovelware on steam wishes it could be as barebones and overpriced as some of nintendo's recent half assed offerings like mario golf.
 
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MegaZoneEX

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The switch is about to be emulated by a clone. People are going to be playing switch games at higher framerates on it while it's still alive. you can't compete on content when your competitor steals all your content while offering almost every game ever released along side it. Also, personally speaking first party switch games are some of the most underwhelming Nintendo games in recent memory, all the best games are actually WiiU ports.

You're speaking about a niche group within the gaming consumer that does emulation on PC on a console on its 4th year that just tripled in sale thanks to the pandemic and you think because of that Nintendo should shift their design approach to cater to the lesser population that steal games rather than millions who don't and play their game legitimately?

Morgan Freeman Good Luck GIF
 
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Spacefish

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I want to see nintendo eat shit, but this replacing the switch seems unlikely even though you'll be able to run emulators and play switch games on this better than the switch itself. Also no shit tier paid internet experience. Also no $80 controllers that feel like they came from a cereal box. People will just want to play their pokemon games that are getting progressively shittier without messing around with emulators and whatnot.

Hopefully this does decrease third party switch support though. Would you rather play doom eternal on this or on a system where it looks like vaseline and aliasing are having a party?
Nintendo isn't dumb, they will realise that the switch is a bad bet long term, they will come out with something surprising for the next console and I will thank valve for lighting a fire under their ass. If any hardware manufacturer plays the specs game they get outcompeted by the PC which has too many consumer friendly benefits to ignore. Xbox has been consumed by the PC, Sony bought an entire studio to port their exclusives to PC, everything is converging.
You're speaking about a niche group within the gaming consumer that does emulation on PC on a console on its 4th year that just tripled in sale thanks to the pandemic and you think because of that Nintendo should shift their design approach to cater to the lesser population that steal games rather than millions who don't and play their game legitimately?

Morgan Freeman Good Luck GIF
I don't need luck, I'm not a console warrior that fights for my favourite scum fuck company. I own a switch and a PC and will own the steamdeck too. It doesn't matter how you feel about the morality of emulation, its a serious concern for Nintendo since piracy ruined the DS and had a serious impact on sony's handhelds. If a superior alternative exists for free on a device that's almost the same price then it's a problem for them.
 

Swoopsail

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Same, I've never understood it. If you want a more high-graphical experience, get a pc or a playstation for that. The reason I have a switch is actually for party games when friends come over and zelda. That's pretty much it. Otherwise I'm a pc gamer. Every gaming platform has it's niche and it's probably a good thing. It doesn't mean they can't change things up if they want to, but I don't demand/expect it.
 

MagnesG

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The switch is about to be emulated by a clone. People are going to be playing switch games at higher framerates on it while it's still alive. you can't compete on content when your competitor steals all your content while offering almost every game ever released along side it. Also, personally speaking first party switch games are some of the most underwhelming Nintendo games in recent memory, all the best games are actually WiiU ports.
Such a retarded argument. You can't find a single Switch game emulated without constant bugs, some gamebreaking and crash. Constant fix are needed and you need shaders updated.

Good luck selling these to the majority of the players who are plug and play plebs lovers.
 

Amiga

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Nintendo is just for the couple of 1st party games I like.

Why don't they just charge $200 for their games and make them multiplatform. this would actually save gamers money and make Nintendo more money. win/win
 
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Spacefish

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Such a retarded argument. You can't find a single Switch game emulated without constant bugs, some gamebreaking and crash. Constant fix are needed and you need shaders updated.

Good luck selling these to the majority of the players who are plug and play plebs lovers.
The switch is sold on a tiny handful of exclusives in addition to a bunch of ports, they automatically loose the port game so if even one of these key games is perfectly emulated on a similar device it has a large impact on the desirability of the system. BOTW emulation is apparently already almost perfect, within the lifespan of the system I see no reason why the best switch game wouldn't be perfectly playable on a competitors system. If Nintendo isn't concerned about this they they have their heads in the sand.
 

Spacefish

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Overall attach rate of > 6, more than 2000 titles released and a 10-year lifespan. You have an interesting definition of "ruined".
sure, we can pretend the DS wasn't plagued by piracy in it's latter years, so much that all subsequent systems have had massive amounts of effort poured into anti piracy measures, leading to the switch which doesn't even have a web browser or any multimedia apps because they are afraid of vulnerabilities.
 

Rhazer Fusion

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I think people won't understand Nintendo, but only because they don't want to. It was fucking written on the walls that the thing wouldn't do 4k. You fell for it, you have yourself to blame.

Nintendo is a disruptor, they don't want to be the same as everyone else.
I knew something was up when Nintendo was rumored to be talking about adding 4K to a mid-gen upgrade yet it seems like the PS5 and XSX are still struggling with native 4K technically.
 

e&e

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This isn't about power, this is about the switch and its primary selling point being portable gaming with a dock. A simple gimmick that is easily replicated.
They now have to deal with a competitor with a larger library of games, cheaper games, much better performance, free online with a better infrastructure, free cloud saves, back buttons, analogue triggers, multimedia functionality, functioning Bluetooth for headphones, unlimited support for peripherals and more Nintendo exclusives than the switch. all for $50 more. The switch is in danger of being emulated and subsumed by a clone before its reached its first revision. This was never a problem for the ds line and the 3ds may never have a satisfying way to emulate it, the Wii was likewise impossible to emulate for its entire lifespan.

Android phones have eaten into apples dominance and the only reason apple is still relevant is they provide premium experiences for high prices, Nintendo is now charging a premium for an inferior experience, it's unsustainable without innovation.
So you are saying we have a Switch killer?
The switch is sold on a tiny handful of exclusives in addition to a bunch of ports, they automatically loose the port game so if even one of these key games is perfectly emulated on a similar device it has a large impact on the desirability of the system. BOTW emulation is apparently already almost perfect, within the lifespan of the system I see no reason why the best switch game wouldn't be perfectly playable on a competitors system. If Nintendo isn't concerned about this they they have their heads in the sand.
Nintendo should be concerned because you said so huh? I wonder how they whether Sony Portables. These forums have a knack for overcompensating on a devices power in accordance to how much sales it will get. Let’s come back next year and look at sales around this time again.

The hot takes are coming only because you can emulate games on a “competing” device; like that has ever sold systems.
 
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Quasicat

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The only thing I would want on a Switch is audio Bluetooth, an old technology sure…but I think I’m the problem. We have four Switches in our home with two of them being my personal devices, one for home and one for work.
As long as their games are what they are, the tech doesn’t bother me in the slightest.
 

Andodalf

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Umm no.. the switch is a very powerful mobile device at under $400 with a decent battery life.
There is no withered about it.

200$ android tablet from 2015 in 2021 for 350$ isn’t what I’d call cutting edge bud
 

StateofMajora

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I don't understand the point of this thread. They haven't released a new console to even criticize yet!

Besides while switch wasn't bleeding edge it was only one step down (vs. Nvidia TX2), unlike wii u and wii. If you wanted to you could say ps5 isn't bleeding edge either (zen 2 vs 3)
 
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