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Opinion Nintendo's /SEGA's struggles in providing legacy service is thorned by the rise in retro handhelds, plagued by years of pirating and consumers...

MegaZoneEX

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Nintendo's /SEGA's struggles in providing legacy service is thorned by the rise in retro handhelds, plagued by years of pirating and consumers split between accessibility and illegality.

Devil's advocate

Yes. Part of this is Nintendo's own weakness in their online infrastructure which in turns makes something like NSO Expansion pack a steep cost to consumer.

But a rise in casual consumers more likely to come across retro handhelds online and a hard core consumer with the knowledge of homebrew, emulation and ROMs distribution (which both i and this forum denounce and discouraged), any official service that aims to bring Nintendo's and SEGA's entire gaming collection of Retro titles to an online subscription platform will always seem lacking and or unreasonably price.

Even pirating alone could be the biggest cause in why we haven't seen a big service of Retro titles. In the west we here of sites getting shut down and people getting sued, but thats 1000x more abundant in China and Japan.


Question to you:

Based on the type of consumer you seem yourself, how much are you willing to pay for a service that allows you to play official retro titles from Nintendo and Sega?
 

nush

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Even pirating alone could be the biggest cause in why we haven't seen a big service of Retro titles.

I'd say it was piracy being the reason we got those retro titles at all when companies could see how many people were playing and talking about them. Most of those games would be forgotten about now.
 

MegaZoneEX

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Nintendo most likely has the desire to want a true retro platform service but can't with all their games so easily to obtain. They probably don't have "Disney level" legal team to scrub the net of all there software.......globally.

So thing to consider.
 

MikeM

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Do you have an article pointing to this? Or is this speculation?

I’d argue the vast majority of people don’t pirate. Few have the time, and for someone like me, would much rather buy a game at a decent price than go through with the trouble of pirating. In saying that, doesn’t Nintendo charge an absurd amount for their retro games?
 
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cartman414

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The Hamster Arcade Archives are making it a bit easier for at least some arcade classics, on the plus side, complete with dip switches. Then there are 3rd parties taking rereleases into their own hands.

The first party oldie pre-Cube stuff? Yeah, that's a problem that won't resolve itself anytime soon.
 
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MrMephistoX

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There are some games that just will never see the light of day again due to piracy like anything Activision made with the Transformers license or TMNT. It sucks because the only way to play some of these is through piracy because they even disappear from sale on steam.
 
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Griffon

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That's bullshit OP and you know it. Nintendo already saw a big success with the Wii Virtual Console, and then proceeded to fuck it up every subsequent generation.

Chinese emulator consoles aren't stopping them from offering an official alternative. Thinking they do is ridiculous.
 

6502

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Nintendo could have become the Netflix of games 15 years ago.

They decided it was better to squeeze the customers instead of providing that service.

And it isn't as if online was some unknown quantity, xbox clearly demonstrated the value to business and consumers alike. They must have made bank on virtual console wii.

And all they have done since then is go backwards. Even when they have the money and resources, they choose to make things as shit as possible.

I love my Nintendo games, but Nintendo themselves are egregious wankers when it comes to this stuff.
 

Ozzie666

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I would think companies like Capcom and SNK would be just as affected, but some of their products seems to do all right.
But it's not a bad take, people would be more likely to support physical release compilations. The Evercade is a pretty good example of people tapping into physical collecting. But Nintendo's track record is pretty terrible, and not carrying things forward.

Could you imagine an N64 or Playstation legacy mini console, with cute mini cartridges?
 

TLZ

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Why's it so hard for Nintendo to give us a proper service with all their systems? Call it Legacy Pass or whatever. Just have every retro Nintendo console and handheld Game in it. Make them available in a rental service or available to buy individually. MS would kill for a legacy like this.
 

kiphalfton

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There are some games that just will never see the light of day again due to piracy like anything Activision made with the Transformers license or TMNT. It sucks because the only way to play some of these is through piracy because they even disappear from sale on steam.

Yeah, seeing some stuff removed from steam (that was previously on there) hurts.

I know not all ports are good, but you know what sucks more? Lack of an option altogether. When at one point there was stuff like Alpha Protocol, X-Men Legends, and other games, that are no longer on steam and not easily accessible, your hands are tied and if you want to play them you gotta sail the seas.
 
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Impotaku

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I don't need to pay anything as i wasn't one of those stupid people that sold everything the minute another console came out, have vast libraries of games & hardware from past generations i can play pretty much what i want.
 

JimboJones

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Most of the old library is absolute dreck and not worth hosting in the first place
The NES and SNES service at the moment is basically carried by a very few well known and legitimately good classics but most of it is horrible and I am willing to bet the license cost to host some of the garbage couldn't even be recouped by selling them individually.
 

AMSCD

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Nintendo most likely has the desire to want a true retro platform service but can't with all their games so easily to obtain. They probably don't have "Disney level" legal team to scrub the net of all there software.......globally.

So thing to consider.
Huh? Why would Nintendo be prevented from offering a reasonable virtual console service simply because there are pirated version available online?
 
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ShadowLag

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This is 100% wrong.

The Switch is a galactic money-printing mega seller, and Nintendo has the eyes of casual players globally. A well priced collection of retro games to buy and own would sell untold millions, with both hardcore and casuals diving in immediately. Most people love and prefer official products, as long as there aren't glaring issues with them (like this ridiculous, overpriced subscription gate blocking access to the games).

It's been utterly maddening to me why Nintendo continues to leave the vast majority of their franchises from the N64/GC days utterly abandoned in the modern day, while also refusing to provide convenient paid access to what's already been made and sold before.

"Nintendo, I want to play Wave Race: Blue Storm and Eternal Darkness on my Switch, I'll pay you $40 for each, can I?"

Nintendo: "....... AUGMENTED REALITY MARIO KART GAME! MORE SWORD USERS IN SMASH!! ... MOBILE PHONE VOICE CHAT!!!!"
 

Mr Hyde

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I wish there was an option to buy the games offered on NSO. Subscription models just don't work for me. Look at Microsoft and Sony's alternative, at least they give you the option to buy the games offered on their service, often discounted, but Nintendo is like "nope, can't have that". What was wrong with Virtual Console? Thought it worked great for them.
 

Kokoloko85

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Nintendo is doing a better job than Playstation tbh.

But yeah Sega is awful. They keep releasing Genisis/Megadrive classic bundles under a new name and say maybe Saturn and Dreamcast games in the future and it never happens….

Id love a Sega Servive/ Virtual console or even a netflix like service, whatever. Just let me play way more Megadrive, Saturn and Dreamcast games.
 
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baphomet

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I've seen some stuff completely devoid of fact, but this is definitely up there.

The infinitesimally small amount of retro handhelds out there has literally no impact on Sega, Nintendo, NEC, etc releasing their old games. They're just too fucking lazy to do it right, and no one is going to pay for Super Mario Bros a 10th time when they're just dropping an emulator and rom in a container and selling it for $10. If they actually put some effort into it like playable betas, development videos/interviews, design documents, etc then I'd be happy to pay for it.
 

JimboJones

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I've seen some stuff completely devoid of fact, but this is definitely up there.

The infinitesimally small amount of retro handhelds out there has literally no impact on Sega, Nintendo, NEC, etc releasing their old games. They're just too fucking lazy to do it right, and no one is going to pay for Super Mario Bros a 10th time when they're just dropping an emulator and rom in a container and selling it for $10. If they actually put some effort into it like playable betas, development videos/interviews, design documents, etc then I'd be happy to pay for it.
It's crazy what some emulators offer these days, from fixing the wobbly textures in PS1 games and upscaling mode 7 on SNES game.
 
Dec 12, 2018
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Nintendo most likely has the desire to want a true retro platform service but can't with all their games so easily to obtain. They probably don't have "Disney level" legal team to scrub the net of all there software.......globally.

So thing to consider.

I have a few ideas:

- give the customer the freedom to permanently download classics without locking them behind an online service
- create emulators that are competitive and have more features
- create a compelling line up of games and highlight them
- create reasons why to use official emulation to differentiate themselves (take a look at enhanced BC for Xbox)
- release games that never made it to the west (they did so with the Wii VC)
- cross play and cross saves
- you should be able to take your library with you to the next platform, don't force customers to buy 100 versions of Mario Bros.

Piracy is a service problem and Nintendo has a poor service. Even the Wii VC wasn't exactly great. The emulation quality varied, there were next to no features, overpriced in a lot of cases and I don't know if they did it on purpose to sell classic controllers, but some games played horrible with the Gamecube controller due to poor button mapping. Homebrew is so much better than the VC.

Edit:
Additionally Nintendo could create its own rom sharing site to sell ROMs legally. I am pretty sure that enough would like to legally obtain ROMs if they had a chance of doing so. After all it costs Nintendo basically nothing to sell their own games as ROMs. As for games by other developers, that could be another story, but either way the only way to fight piracy is to create a service that can compete. Same thing happened with music. People didn't use Napster because they wanted to do something illegal, they used Napster because of the convenience, accessibility and selection.
 
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ACESHIGH

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Piracy is a service issue - Gabe Newell.

Sony, Nintendo and SEGA are to blame. They have massive back catalogs that should be easily available in many platforms or at least in their platforms. Instead you see Nintendo porting the same Mario and Zelda games over and over and releasing an online service that is WAY worse than Virtual Console from the Wii era.

And ffs Sony almost closes the PS3 store this year...
 
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01011001

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they should not do a service...
What Nintendo should do is sell EVERY SINGLE first party game on NES and SNES for 2€ each. They would easily sell millions of them with almost zero cost for them.

NES - 2€
SNES - 2€
N64 - 4€
GameCube - 10€

if they did that, which again... would cost them almost nothing to actually do, especially NES to N64, everyone would be happy and they would sell millions of their classic games.
instead they drip-feed their games using worse and worse methods of distribution over time, which of course annoys people and just makes them download the roms from easily accessibly sites.

In a world where Microsoft could afford to hire a company to completely remaster Perfect Dark by completely remaking every texture and almost every 3D model from scratch + adding 8 player online functionality, and then sell said game for 10€ on their online service, you'd think Nintendo could do the same with simple, emulated games.
But they don't, and it's super easy to get better emulation for free... it really is that simple


THIS 👇 is simply better than what Nintendo offers...

not only in terms of accessibility, but also more often than not in terms of emulation quality.
And I can literally do this on my Phone, my PC and my freaking Xbox... And Nintendo tries to compete with that by locking their small selection of games behind a paywall for their absolutely atrocious online service
 
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BigBooper

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Doesn't make sense. People are getting stuff for free that many of them would be willing to pay for, but they can't pay for them because they are getting them for free.

If people could buy it, they would, just as they have in the past. Some wouldn't, but they sure aren't buying them now.

They are too greedy. I was looking at the Switch store and it has Arcade Vs Mario for $8. That's crazy expensive.
 
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Knightime_X

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Nintendo needs to do a mass collection like sega did but do volumes featuring different platforms.
To expand, have 3rd party offer their games for individual sale like arcade archives. It's free money.
 
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radewagon

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Remember the hugely successful NES, SNES, and Genesis Classics? Remember how none of them are still in production? Remember how none of them had an official way to pay cash money to add more titles? Nintendo and Sega are simply not trying. They stumbled upon a model that was incredibly popular and mishandled and abandoned it. With retro blowing up right now, Nintendo and anyone else not capitalizing on potential nostalgia profits is being phenomenally stupid and I have no pity for any sales they lose in that space to emulation.
 
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SpiceRacz

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There is no limit to how many times people will keep paying to play classic games, particularly Nintendo's own, on the latest Nintendo console. Regardless of piracy.
 

01011001

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How come I wasn't aware of this? Now I need to look for a modified final fight 3 ROM.

this is still very limited, they use the SA-1 chip which is basically a second SNES CPU that sits in the cartridge.
so the support for that SA-1 chip needs to be hand implemented.

Other patches are Fast Rom patches, where the clock speed of the SNES gets turned up. Like the Switch the SNES could run in multiple CPU speed modes,
and those patches patch them to use the faster mode.

here is a site with some of the available patches
VitorVilela7 (Vitor Vilela) · GitHub
(These are not ROMs, they are BPS/IPS patches, you need to provide your own rom to modify them with these patches. so totally legal... just saying incase someone thinks I'm linking roms here)
 
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Jun 28, 2013
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I prefer to pay. Not out of honor. It‘s about convenience and interface. Nintendo is just so horrible with providing digital services. They just suck with technology.

Im guessing they figure it best if their audience doesnt carry a library with them through gens. They have to start fresh every gen. Why would a mom buy their kid Mario, if they have 20 marios at home. Its SMART, not that I think about It. Every causal I know would be happy with Animal Crossing from gamecube. Mario Party from gamecube. They wouldnt notice the issue. As long as you can download it. But they cant.

I can’t handle ugly interfaces. Thats why I pay the Apple tax. Bless the design gods. Only reason I dont use emulators. It also feels dirty. Im the best customer.
 

93xfan

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I and many others would gladly rebuy these games again. It’s a much better alternative to emulation, but they have to put in enough work
 
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dreamcastluvr

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Sega fans: Can we get a official console release of all those cool arcade games from the 90’s and 2000’s you never ported before?
Sega: Here’s another Genesis compilation!!
Sega fans: we actually bought that already on the PS2, PS3, XBox, etc… so how about some of those cool arcade racing games like Daytona 2 or Scud Race? Or maybe Planet Harriers or the Water Ski game?
Sega: Nah, licensing too much trouble… but we got another Genesis compilation for ya!
Sega fans: Eh, how bout Saturn games that have never been re-released like Panzer Dragoon Saga or any of those numerous JRPGs that never got official English translations?
Sega: We already gave you VF2 and Daytona USA. Just have another Genesis compilation.
Sega fans: screw it. I’m just gonna go with emulators.
 
Jun 2, 2017
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Sega fans: Can we get a official console release of all those cool arcade games from the 90’s and 2000’s you never ported before?
Sega: Here’s another Genesis compilation!!
Sega fans: we actually bought that already on the PS2, PS3, XBox, etc… so how about some of those cool arcade racing games like Daytona 2 or Scud Race? Or maybe Planet Harriers or the Water Ski game?
Sega: Nah, licensing too much trouble… but we got another Genesis compilation for ya!
Sega fans: Eh, how bout Saturn games that have never been re-released like Panzer Dragoon Saga or any of those numerous JRPGs that never got official English translations?
Sega: We already gave you VF2 and Daytona USA. Just have another Genesis compilation.
Sega fans: screw it. I’m just gonna go with emulators.
When Folks were saying Microsoft was going to buy Sega I never believe it - BUT - I DID think a good idea would be to get a deal with Sega to just dump ALL those legacy titles on gamepass....thought Nintendo would do it too with how they been playing nice.

Sega would do so good if they just modernized Sonic for 2D....Keep it faithful to all the oldies/originals with an updated art style and great 2D drawing/animation...Seeing games out there like Katana Zero, Ori, Cuphead, hollow knight and so many others that "Look good" makes me wish they'd just make a really good looking modern 2D Sonic with a great soundtrack

But instead they keep trying to force this 3D shit on us
 
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Eevee86

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That's bullshit OP and you know it. Nintendo already saw a big success with the Wii Virtual Console, and then proceeded to fuck it up every subsequent generation.

Chinese emulator consoles aren't stopping them from offering an official alternative. Thinking they do is ridiculous.
Third party clearly didn't. They obviously prefer packaging up their old product and selling them.
 

DGrayson

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This is true (and knew someone would point it out) however consumers are willing to pay fir Disney plus vs some gamer are willing to homebrew switch games.

Or cause Disney plus is like 12 bucks a month and you get a crazy amount of content.

If Nintendo offered all or most NES SNES Gameboy GBC GBA and N64 games for 15 a month we probably wouldn't even be having this conversation.
 
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Nov 4, 2017
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Third party clearly didn't. They obviously prefer packaging up their old product and selling them.
That's probably more about "cutting out the middle man" than actual sales numbers.

Which highlights it's own set of issues; What is it about Nintendo's "service" that makes third parties prefer to opt out and offer their legacy systems on their own terms? NeoGeo AES was on Virtual Console, but now SNK instead uses Arcade Archive. Konami and Capcom push out their own collections. It's not even like they're charging huge prices -many of these are actually reasonably priced, especially compared to what Nintendo themselves will package. Clearly, there is something WRONG with how Nintendo approaches third parties regarding retro games on Switch Online.