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News Business Nintendo has officially made more profits with Nintendo Switch(2017-2020) than Sony Gaming division with Playstation 4(2013-2020)

e&e

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So they are innocent for reselling wiiu games at 60 and overcharging for the Switch, because they have to fend off hostile takeover?

Here's the Sony revenue by division:



Clearly the gaming division is doing a LOT of heavy lifting, yet they are selling PS5 at a small loss.
At launch the estimated cost to make a switch was 257USD, keep in mind that this was back in early 2017. I'm willing to bet it sits around 200 or less now. No price cuts since then and sells a lot.

Poor innocent Nintendo, fighting for their lives. We have to do something! Quick, buy another WiiU game for 60 bucks! They must be really desperate to create the artificial scarcity of Super Mario 3d Collecion! We must buy 2 copies!! :messenger_loudly_crying:
It’s ok, let it out! *pats on back*
 

ToTTenTranz

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Hopefully Nintendo's excellent results will drive Sony and/or Microsoft to compete in the handheld market.

There's just too much money to be made in that market, to leave Nintendo alone.
Sony was completely wrong to believe everything mobile would be gobbled up by tablets and phones and leaving the Vita to dry without games or a successor. I hope they come back as we desperately need an alternative to the Switch.
 
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Marvel14

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So they are innocent for reselling wiiu games at 60 and overcharging for the Switch, because they have to fend off hostile takeover?

Here's the Sony revenue by division:



Clearly the gaming division is doing a LOT of heavy lifting, yet they are selling PS5 at a small loss.
At launch the estimated cost to make a switch was 257USD, keep in mind that this was back in early 2017. I'm willing to bet it sits around 200 or less now. No price cuts since then and sells a lot.

Poor innocent Nintendo, fighting for their lives. We have to do something! Quick, buy another WiiU game for 60 bucks! They must be really desperate to create the artificial scarcity of Super Mario 3d Collecion! We must buy 2 copies!! :messenger_loudly_crying:
It's not about innocent or guilty...It's called business. Nintendo vigorously protects the inherent value of its products (the Wii U price didn't fall that much even with poor sales).

They have far less diversified revenue streams than Sony or MS so they need to protect and maximise profit margins and the value proposition to their customers. It's fairly simple business strategy.

If a business can charge a higher price and customers are willing to pay and buy the same amount why would they not?

I have to admit it is kinda "Jimmy Stewart " heartwarming that you think Nintendo owes you cheaper products out of the goodness of their hearts. That will only be true when customers stop buying at current prices.
 

Faithless83

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It's not about innocent or guilty...It's called business. Nintendo vigorously protects the inherent value of its products (the Wii U price didn't fall that much even with poor sales).

They have far less diversified revenue streams than Sony or MS so they need to protect and maximise profit margins and the value proposition to their customers. It's fairly simple business strategy.

If a business can charge a higher price and customers are willing to pay and buy the same amount why would they not?

I have to admit it is kinda "Jimmy Stewart " heartwarming that you think Nintendo owes you cheaper products out of the goodness of their hearts. That will only be true when customers stop buying at current prices.
Fine, bear with me for a moment. Imagine the backlash of ANY other company doing what they did with Mario 3d collection.
People freaked about Battlefront 2 DLC BS, so much so they got Disney involved on it.

No one, not even the fans bat an eye with the Mario 3d Collection artificial scarcity.
Hell some where justifying it by "it's a celebration deal".

"Nintendo can do no wrong" is so real that people blamed the third parties for the WiiU failure. Like they had the obligation to release games for it.

That's what I'm pointing here, but hey, next time you guys got screwed (it happened before, right?), we can say "Don't be sad, it's just business". :messenger_grinning_sweat:
 

Bodomism

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Fine, bear with me for a moment. Imagine the backlash of ANY other company doing what they did with Mario 3d collection.
People freaked about Battlefront 2 DLC BS, so much so they got Disney involved on it.

No one, not even the fans bat an eye with the Mario 3d Collection artificial scarcity.
Hell some where justifying it by "it's a celebration deal".

"Nintendo can do no wrong" is so real that people blamed the third parties for the WiiU failure. Like they had the obligation to release games for it.

That's what I'm pointing here, but hey, next time you guys got screwed (it happened before, right?), we can say "Don't be sad, it's just business". :messenger_grinning_sweat:
I don't see any problem with that.
Nintendo is offering 3 GOTG games in one package for a limited time at $60 while BF2 fiasco was about p2w lootbox mtx gambling BS, the cancer of the industry.
 

Zato

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Nintendo spend far less money on hardware R&D, game production, exclusives and marketing.

Simply Nintendo is run much more cheaply, their hardware is cheaper to design and make and their games do not cost as much to make (compare Zelda with TLOU2 simply from a production stand point).

Lower spend, more profit.
 

lachesis

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Thing about Nintendo that impresses me the most is that they have very little debt... Their long term debt vs Shareholder assets are like 1:3.
Sony definitely is a much larger company for sure - but their longterm debt vs shareholder assets are actually reverse - like 3:1
(MS is like 1.x : 1 or so, it seems)

I mean, big businesses do have large debts - and I'm sure it really doesn't mean much, as long as they pull in big revenue and making profits - but to an uneducated eyes like me, Nintendo's financial health seem more healthier, meaning safer & grounded.
 

sublimit

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Nintendo can get away with a lot of questionable things that the other two just can't. Sure for every Wii there's also a GameCube and for every Switch there's also a WiiU.

Still i think their target group reach is much broader than PS's or Xbox's especially now that they only have one system instead of two (like with the WiiU/3DS generation).

They are also not directly competing with the other two (in terms of both hardware and software) so comparisons between Nintendo and either MS or Sony exist only to make certain fanboys happy.
 

captainraincoat

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Sony has been releasing their first party games as paid remasters for years now...not sure why Nintendo gets the slap for this
 
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ToTTenTranz

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Sony has been releasing their first party games as paid remasters for years now...not sure why Nintendo gets the slap for this
Paid remasters happened in late 2013 to 2014 because the PS4 couldn't run PS3 games.


What paid remasters are you seeing in the PS5?
Surely you're not putting paid remakes like Demon's Souls in that basket.
 

Faithless83

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What point? There is no argument, Nintendo made more profits, period! 😎
Can you read? Who said they didn't?
I get it, after the WiiU you guys are riding the "we are so popular" wave. You needed the win more than anybody else, right?
Hopefully it will last long, I have a Switch too.

But I can see when I'm being clearly screwed. Looks like common sense is not so "common" these days.
 
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futurama78

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Operating profits? In 2020 wasn’t it 28 billion revenue vs 15 billion? So... what?

120 billion vs 75? Where’s the money going? Operating?
 
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Marvel14

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Fine, bear with me for a moment. Imagine the backlash of ANY other company doing what they did with Mario 3d collection.
People freaked about Battlefront 2 DLC BS, so much so they got Disney involved on it.

No one, not even the fans bat an eye with the Mario 3d Collection artificial scarcity.
Hell some where justifying it by "it's a celebration deal".

"Nintendo can do no wrong" is so real that people blamed the third parties for the WiiU failure. Like they had the obligation to release games for it.

That's what I'm pointing here, but hey, next time you guys got screwed (it happened before, right?), we can say "Don't be sad, it's just business". :messenger_grinning_sweat:
Seems to me like you're changing your argument.

Nintendo defenders can be irrational to the point of acting against their own economic interests but so can blue collar workers who vote Republican. The latter is much more worth discussing and resolving than Nintendo's foibles.

Nintendo did phone in the 3d all star collection but guess what? The games are so damn good that people were still willing to buy in their droves (including me).

I think the collection has sold over 10 million units worldwide and has not sold out so I think you're confusing scarcity with a "time limited print run" which Nintendo has hardly just invented just to screw their customers. They could be doing it for lots of reasons that have nothing to do with fleecing their customers (n64/wii/gc virtual console for switch 2 , an expanded collection with Galaxy2 for the same price).

And i am not defending Nintendo. Heck i have been on the sharp end: I completely missed out on the Metroid trilogy release and it annoyed me no end.

In the end business and the bottom line are going to dominate any company's choices and decisions. Better accept it than expecting corporate social responsibility sensibilities to outweigh raw finance in its core business practices. Unless of course you're addicted to feelings of disappointment and/or victimhood. In that case do carry on...
 
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iHaunter

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Nintendo churn out the same 3-4 low-risk IPs every year so this isn't surprising. Not hating, just stating the facts of their business model. I'm sure the margins on the Switch hardware are quite high as well.
Most of their game sales are literally old games just ported. Nintendolites are the biggest sheep in gaming.
 

e&e

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Can you read? Who said they didn't?
I get it, after the WiiU you guys are riding the "we are so popular" wave. You needed the win more than anybody else, right?
Hopefully it will last long, I have a Switch too.

But I can see when I'm being clearly screwed. Looks like common sense is not so "common" these days.
Nah, they made more profits, you (and a lot of people here) are trying to spin it and call people names, I just see through your BS and call you out! “Nintendo fans are sheep” and their ilk are not good arguments man (Especially in a world where WiiU existed, which should tell someone smart enough to not use that argument)! Would like to see how a Sony thread where they had record revenue gets spun into a negative.
 

yurinka

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Nintendo - 12.22 billion USD of operating profits from 2017-2020
Sony gaming division - 10.98 billion USD of operating profits from 2013-2020
Sony made $22.74B in revenue this year, while Nintendo did $13.36B. Nintendo is performing great, but Sony is performing better, is making more money.

Sony basically posted the best calendar year for a console platform holder in gaming history, the best selling quarter launch for any console in gaming history and PS4 has been breaking gaming industry records (launch aligned or in total numbers) in many areas since its launch year and continues doing it as of today.

We also have to consider last year was also the PS5 launch year, which means selling a new console selling at a loss, having a huge marketing campaign and big R&D costs, which traditionally meant a year of loses but instead Sony posted record revenue and profits because they make an insane amount of money from games and services.

Nintendo has a bigger profit because they don't reinvest as much money as Sony does. Sony invests in more cutting-edge (so more expensive) hardware, games and services, plus on more console exclusive deals, growing their studios, making merge & acquisitions or strategic deals, and marketing. Nintendo instead prefers to invest on a cheaper hardware, accesories and services selling them on a profit, release less and way cheaper to develop games and invest less in marketing and exclusive deals.

If Sony would have prefered to have more profits they would have invested less in these things, and maybe even would have made more profits in a single year than Nintendo did since Switch launch. But it wouldn't make sense, it's a better strategy to reinvest profits to continue growing to generate more revenue in the future.
 

e&e

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Congrats to all the users who own stocks and shares in Nintendo.
Nice straw man! 🤣
Sony made $22.74B in revenue this year, while Nintendo did $13.36B. Nintendo is performing great, but Sony is performing better, is making more money.

Sony basically posted the best calendar year for a console platform holder in gaming history, the best selling quarter launch for any console in gaming history and PS4 has been breaking gaming industry records (launch aligned or in total numbers) in many areas since its launch year and continues doing it as of today.

We also have to consider last year was also the PS5 launch year, which means selling a new console selling at a loss, having a huge marketing campaign and big R&D costs, which traditionally meant a year of loses but instead Sony posted record revenue and profits because they make an insane amount of money from games and services.

Nintendo has a bigger profit because they don't reinvest as much money as Sony does. Sony invests in more cutting-edge (so more expensive) hardware, games and services, plus on more console exclusive deals, growing their studios, making merge & acquisitions or strategic deals, and marketing. Nintendo instead prefers to invest on a cheaper hardware, accesories and services selling them on a profit, release less and way cheaper to develop games and invest less in marketing and exclusive deals.

If Sony would have prefered to have more profits they would have invested less in these things, and maybe even would have made more profits in a single year than Nintendo did since Switch launch. But it wouldn't make sense, it's a better strategy to reinvest profits to continue growing to generate more revenue in the future.
This thread has been going on for a while...did you read it?
 
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SLB1904

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Who knew the comparing cash flow statements trumped profits.

The most stupid post ever in sales age of neogaf. He probably thought by posting numbers it will make him looks smarter than before.
This embarrassing lmfao.

How can you call dumb others when you 2 have no clue what you talking about?

It's not clear cut which one is "better"
Why do you think shares drops when revenue drops even when a company reports increase in profit?

Ill give you a clue in one of the many factors.
Product life cycle. The switch and is software are generating a lot of profits but eventually it will saturate the market and sales will drop. And it's literally the main factor driving Nintendos profits. What do you think is going to happen if the next nintendo console is a wii u 2.0?

This is one of the few examples.
 
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Bodomism

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This embarrassing lmfao.

How can you call dumb others when you 2 have no clue what you talking about?

It's not clear cut which one is "better"
Why do you think shares drops when revenue drops even when a company reports increase in profit?

Ill give you a clue in one of the many factors.
Product life cycle. The switch and is software are generating a lot of profits but eventually it will saturate the market and sales will drop. And it's literally the main factor driving Nintendos profits. What do you think is going to happen if the next nintendo console is a wii u 2.0?

This is one of the few examples.
Dude we already discussed this stupid cash flow thing in the last 2 page
 

Bodomism

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Sony made $22.74B in revenue this year, while Nintendo did $13.36B. Nintendo is performing great, but Sony is performing better, is making more money.

Sony basically posted the best calendar year for a console platform holder in gaming history, the best selling quarter launch for any console in gaming history and PS4 has been breaking gaming industry records (launch aligned or in total numbers) in many areas since its launch year and continues doing it as of today.

We also have to consider last year was also the PS5 launch year, which means selling a new console selling at a loss, having a huge marketing campaign and big R&D costs, which traditionally meant a year of loses but instead Sony posted record revenue and profits because they make an insane amount of money from games and services.

Nintendo has a bigger profit because they don't reinvest as much money as Sony does. Sony invests in more cutting-edge (so more expensive) hardware, games and services, plus on more console exclusive deals, growing their studios, making merge & acquisitions or strategic deals, and marketing. Nintendo instead prefers to invest on a cheaper hardware, accesories and services selling them on a profit, release less and way cheaper to develop games and invest less in marketing and exclusive deals.

If Sony would have prefered to have more profits they would have invested less in these things, and maybe even would have made more profits in a single year than Nintendo did since Switch launch. But it wouldn't make sense, it's a better strategy to reinvest profits to continue growing to generate more revenue in the future.
Let me tell you something, Nintendo Switch is going to become more profitable than PS1+PS2+PS3+PSV+PS4 combined.

This revenue talk is only for a losing company to spin it into a positive.
 
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Gunslinger

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More proof flashy graphics And high budget games are overrated. People just want to play good games.
 

KAL2006

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Makes sense. Nintendo low cost and high sales is what keeps them on top. The hardware not being as powerful allows them to make games without having high graphical fedelity which means more profits due to lower cost of making games. The hardware sells like crazy which makes sense for Nintendo to not drop the price after all these years. The Wii U ports sell like crazy so if I was Nintendo I would port more games and not just from Wii U and charge full price as Nintendo fans would still pay. Finally Nintendo being able to release Pokémon games but not have to go all out on budget not even rivalling PS2 era RPGs when it comes to graphics but fans still buy is a plus so it makes sense to skimp out more and more and start outsourcing. If I was Nintendo I'd take this model with all their franchises and outsource if the fans are willing to pay and they make money with lower budgets they should keep milking.
 

Marvel14

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Nintendo churn out the same 3-4 low-risk IPs every year so this isn't surprising. Not hating, just stating the facts of their business model. I'm sure the margins on the Switch hardware are quite high as well.

Most of their game sales are literally old games just ported. Nintendolites are the biggest sheep in gaming.
Arms, Astral Chain, Mario + Rabbids, Splatoon, Snipperclips, Good Job, Cadence of Hyrule, Tetris 99 and Ring Fit Adventure all say: "howdy".

Protip: if you do a bit of research you can avoid looking like you don't know what you are talking about.
 
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yurinka

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Let me tell you something, Nintendo Switch is going to become more profitable than PS1+PS2+PS3+PSV+PS4 combined.

This revenue talk is only for a losing company to spin it into a positive.
Bullshit. Sony makes almost twice the money than Nintendo makes, and you can't make profit without making way more revenue. Profit is a portion of the revenue, and having lots of revenue helps you to reinvest it to have more profit in the future. Revenue is the most important metric, this is why the stocks market values it way more than profit.

If Sony has less profit when they are making almos the double the amount of money Nintendo makes it's because they decide to reinvest this revenue on making more and more expensive games, hardware and services than in smaller games, cardboard stuff, figurines and old ports.

Regarding the upcoming years, if you go to the first page and watch the operating profit graphs, you'll see Switch yearly sales curve peaked this year so will start decreasing in the following years until the Switch successor starts to peak. Sony instead sells so many games and services that compensated the decrease/valley typically seen in intergenerational periods and continued growing from the PS4 peak to the upcoming PS5 peak.

They don’t overlap anywhere in terms of demographics
They have almost the same demographics. The most popular age ranges are the same for Sony and Nintendo. Their main countries are same with same small change in their order. The gender distribution is almost the same. A big majority of Switch users also have a PS4.

This thread has been going on for a while...did you read it?
Your post is a good example of the ad hominem phallacy: you can't attack my arguments with proper arguments because I'm right, so you try to attack me instead to make people thing I'm wrong or something.
 
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Marvel14

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Great for shareholders; hilarious that fans celebrate this kind of stuff.

I'm thankful MS / Sony still don't try to profit off of their hardware day one.. and generally continually reduce price over time.

I like my Nintendo products, but not going to celebrate record profitability. I'd prefer their talents went into investing into more games, despite that being a risk.. or more advanced hardware.
Can we at least agree that 3 console makers is better than 2 for videogame consumers?
 

TLZ

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Arms, Astral Chain, Mario + Rabbids, Splatoon, Snipperclips, Good Job, Cadence of Hyrule, Tetris 99 and Ring Fit Adventure all say: "howdy".

Protip: if you do a bit of research you can avoid looking like you don't know what you are talking about.
Protip: I think it's you who needs to learn how to read. He clearly said "Most of their game sales". Then you go and list those games. Can you tell me how many they sold? I'll help. None of them is in the top 10 except Splatoon 2. While these 3 ports are in the top 5:

MK8 deluxe (port): 33.41 mil
SSB ultimate (port): 22.85 mil
Zelda BOTW (port): 21.45 mil

The games you listed:
Arms:. 2.38 mil
Astral Chain: 1.08 mil
Mario x Rabbids: 2 mil
Snipperclips: <1 mil
Cadence of Hyrule: <1 mil
Ring fit adventure: 8.68 mil
Splatoon 2: 11.90 mil
Tetris 99: free game

Do the maths. Better use a calculator.
 
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Marvel14

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Protip: I think it's you who needs to learn how to read. He clearly said "Most of their game sales". Then you go and list those games. Can you tell me how many they sold? I'll help. None of them is in the top 10 except Splatoon 2. While these 3 ports are in the top 5:

MK8 deluxe (port): 33.41 mil
SSB ultimate (port): 22.85 mil
Zelda BOTW (port): 21.45 mil
SSB ultimate released in 2018.

BOTW released simultaneously on Wii U and Switch.

Neither is "an old port".

MK8 deluxe does meet that definition though it includes new content like a battle mode.

The bigger point i was making is that Nintendo does create new IPs and has plenty of more innovative titles that have sold decently.
 
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TLZ

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SSB ultimate released in 2018.

BOTW released simultaneously on Wii U and Switch.

Neither is "an old port".

MK8 deluxe does meet that definition though it includes new content like a battle mode.

Please try again.
They're ports whether you like it or not.
 
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Bodomism

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Bullshit. Sony makes almost twice the money than Nintendo makes, and you can't make profit without making way more revenue. Profit is a portion of the revenue, and having lots of revenue helps you to reinvest it to have more profit in the future. Revenue is the most important metric, this is why the stocks market values it way more than profit.

If Sony has less profit when they are making almos the double the amount of money Nintendo makes it's because they decide to reinvest this revenue on making more and more expensive games, hardware and services than in smaller games, cardboard stuff, figurines and old ports.

Regarding the upcoming years, if you go to the first page and watch the operating profit graphs, you'll see Switch yearly sales curve peaked this year so will start decreasing in the following years until the Switch successor starts to peak. Sony instead sells so many games and services that compensated the decrease/valley typically seen in intergenerational periods and continued growing from the PS4 peak to the upcoming PS5 peak.


They have almost the same demographics. The most popular age ranges are the same for Sony and Nintendo. Their main countries are same with same small change in their order. The gender distribution is almost the same. A big majority of Switch users also have a PS4.


Your post is a good example of the ad hominem phallacy: you can't attack my arguments with proper arguments because I'm right, so you try to attack me instead to make people thing I'm wrong or something.
Profits is the ultimate metric of successful business while Revenue just a vanity especially with pathetic profit margin like Sony gaming division.

This reinvest bs you stated just a DLC and MTX money.

 

e&e

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Your post is a good example of the ad hominem phallacy: you can't attack my arguments with proper arguments because I'm right, so you try to attack me instead to make people thing I'm wrong or something.
What the heeeellll are you talking about? Let me make this clear; There. Is. No. Argument! Nintendo made more profits! No need to spin it into weird discussions about stuff that is not even true. Someone made a statement and ignored even one of the biggest games of last year (and it’s not a port lmfao)!
 
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GetemMa

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Nintendo's success brings out the tears once again.

My favorite take on this is the following:

"Sony can't make as much money because they only make games that are innovative and for big mature boys like me."

Which suggests that Sony COULD make critically acclaimed games with widespread appeal, but they choose not to. They're leaving that money on the table on purpose, apparently just to maintain the awesome prestige they garner for making "mature" videogames like TLOU and.......other ones.
 

phil_t98

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One is creating many complex, mature games, the other one has nearly no games but old, half-assed remasters that are too simple and basic. But still, Switch is the perfect console for kids.
So which one is working best?
 

Shadowstar39

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If you didn't own the WiiU, the Switch is a great console.

As someone who loved my WiiU, my Switch has largely been collecting dust.

Struggling Nintendo is best Nintendo, this lazy approach is profitable but disappointing. I wish we had double the original titles, rather than them relying on so many ports. We haven't even had a new Mario Kart.
Must be why I love the switch. Haven't owned a Nintendo console since the snes (well I did buy a wii when drunk in 2008 only to sell it two weeks later for a ps3 w/ mgs4/gta4).

Loving Mario 3d world, fire emblem, odyssey botw, hyrule warriors, Mario 3d all stars. Thr rest of the games I own are all ports or indies (many of which I already owned but wanted portable).

Normally I would be buying console, pc and portable games(3ds/vita last Gen) . Switch is great as it takes care of some games for both portable and console. So I only buy exclusives now on ps4 and high end graphic games and simulators, vr and strategy games on pc.
With better eshop sales on switch then 3ds ever had I am actually probably saving money (well I would be if I didn't have a game buying addiction).