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Hardware Platform Nintendo 64 Vs. PlayStation: Which console was more innovative?

IFireflyl

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Admittedly I'm a fan of Nintendo, but no sensible person can deny that they have always been at the forefront of hardware innovation in the gaming industry. Successful or not, they have popularized or innovated while others often build upon the foundations they lay.

  • The PS1 controller is a natural evolution of the SNES controller. Two more buttons
  • The Dual-shock was Sony's take on the analog stick which Nintendo introduced.
  • Camera buttons on the N64 evolved to become a camera analog stick.
  • The rumblepack went on to be a staple of controllers.
  • Nintendo popularized wireless controllers, which became the standard, the Wavebird was the first time major 1st party company offered Wireless controllers.
  • Motion controls, popularized, by the Wii saw interpretation by Sony in the form of the Sixaxis and Move controllers and by Microsoft's Kinect.
  • Touch controls of the popular DS families made their way to the WiiU, Switch, Vita, PS4, PS5.
  • Playing mobile games on TVs, the Super Gameboy evolved to the Gamecube's gameboy player, PSTV, and now the Switch.
What Sony does well is giving consumers and, in the PS1/4/5 eras, devlopers what they want. There is nothing wrong with that! It is a smart business plan that has served them very well. The CD-ROM was a widely used media for video games before the PS1 and Saturn game along, which they did at the same time, and quite some time after many other CD-ROM based consoles and PCs saw commercial release. The Playstation 1 succeeded in becoming the first globally successful console whose media was solely delivered in CD-ROM. This isn't innovative though. The PS1 hardware wasn't innovative, it was a simply the evolution that would be expected in any generational leap.

As I've already mentioned, the Playstation's Dual Analogue Controller had rumble for the Japanese market when it released. It came out two days before the Rumble Pak came out. They didn't release it outside of Japan until the DualShock controllers, but Sony had this on the market before Nintendo.

Also, this is about the N64 versus the PS1, not Nintendo versus Sony. Nintendo wins in that particular battle. N64 vs PS1 is a bit more nuanced though, and people tend to have different ideas on what "innovative" means.
 

RoboFu

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n64 for sure. even though I think PlayStation had the strongest game by far the n64 had hardware and gameplay innovations that are still main stays to this day.
 

xpresstuning

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Also, more people should play Panzer Dragoon Saga on the Sega Saturn. And I know you don't have a Sega Saturn, so you know what to do

More people should play Dragon Force, Dragon Force II, Shinning Force III (the imports scenario 1,2,3 translated, not the US release) and Panzer Dragoon Saga.

More people should play the Sega Saturn in general.
 

cartman414

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The only thing the Saturn innovated was new ways to destroy a fanbase's faith in a company.

Started with the 32x.

At least it had enough ram available for outstanding 2d. Where's Radiant Silvergun on PS?

Ergonomic design and shape logic and with how gamers hold their controllers these days. The button placement since PS1 has pretty much remained unchanged outside of swaps, if you ask someone to mimick holding a controller they'll show their hands in the current clam hold which was popularised from the Dual Shock design.

Dual Shock sucked until PS4, by which point it was merely decent.
 
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nkarafo

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Sure, if you like jaggies.

Gen 5 was the 3d equivalent of the 2600.
Nah, things like the original Starfox and all those 3D filled polygon games on Amiga/Atari ST were far more primitive than anything on the PS1/SAT/N64. Not to mention non-filled vector 3D games (like the original Tempest).

5th gen was a huge step above all that.
 

Omeggos

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Are we all going to ignore the fact that the N64 used cartridges?
Nintendo still uses cartridges.

which is hardly a deal breaker since cartridges typically read a lot faster than disks (back then anyway, improvements to disk reading and ssd’s have made this gen and the latter half of last gen a noticeable upgrade in load times)
 

TLZ

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Sure, if you like jaggies.

Gen 5 was the 3d equivalent of the 2600.
PS introduced to the world many great games like Silent Hill, Twisted Metal, Gran Turismo, Grand Theft Auto, Pro Evolution Soccer/Winning Eleven, Metal Gear Solid, Medal of Honour, Driver, Spyro, Wipeout, Crash Bandicoot, Tekken, Resident Evil, Xenogears, Klonoa, Legacy of Kain, Parasite Eve, Legend of Dragoon, Syphon Filter, Oddworld, Tony Hawk's Pro Skater, Vagrant Story, Ape Escape, Arc the Lad, PaRappa, Colony Wars, Einhander, Tenchu, Dino Crisis, Ace Combat, Suikoden, and more. All (I think) started on the PlayStation.

How can anyone seriously brush aside all these awesome games is beyond me. Please leave your fanboyism aside and appreciate good games. You can love your favourite console and still appreciate what others have brought to the gaming table.
 

TLZ

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i can't think of anything the ps1 innovated
Come on. Innovate doesn't mean invent. It doesn't mean create from scratch. Making the controller better and one that became a standard everyone uses til this day is one.

Also, I think the PS was the first console to play movies from VCDs and music from CDs. I'm not 100%, but I think.
 

eastcoastkody

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Come on. Innovate doesn't mean invent. It doesn't mean create from scratch. Making the controller better and one that became a standard everyone uses til this day is one.

Also, I think the PS was the first console to play movies from VCDs and music from CDs. I'm not 100%, but I think.
pretty sure my Saturn played cds. i dont even remember what VCDs are. The PS1 controller was just a worse SNES controller. Dualshock was good. but that was towards the end of PS1
 
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N64.
- Super Mario 64 for the first compelling 3D Mario Gameplay. Anecdote: the Half-life designers were actually inspired by Mario 64 notably with the platforming in this game.
- Zelda 64 for everything it brought to 3D gaming.

PS1.
- its CD drive brought us CGI cutscenes (and maybe by extension movie wannabe games?) which sucked back then and still suck nowadays.
- Ok right the CD music in some games was really great (like Tomb Raider).

Huh I wonder which is better?
 
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Yoboman

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N64 created the innovations but the implementation was sooo sloppy and poorly done. Its like they had these amazing ideas on the whiteboard and then just slapped them into the first controller prototype and called it a day. PS1 standardised those good ideas into a better integration that we still use today

Eg analog was all Nintendo - but the three prong controller and having it unreachable without changing entire hand positions was bunk. Sony improved it massively by having two (which was in itself an innovation) and in an ergonomic position that is still used today

Rumble was all Nintendo but needing an entire separate cartridge you plug into an already bulky controller was just a terrible integration. Sony improved that by building it into the handles

Triggers were a good idea, but again the implementation was stupid only one on the middle handle. This time it was Microsoft who took the idea and did it way better
 

cartman414

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PS introduced to the world many great games like Silent Hill, Twisted Metal, Gran Turismo, Grand Theft Auto, Pro Evolution Soccer/Winning Eleven, Metal Gear Solid, Medal of Honour, Driver, Spyro, Wipeout, Crash Bandicoot, Tekken, Resident Evil, Xenogears, Klonoa, Legacy of Kain, Parasite Eve, Legend of Dragoon, Syphon Filter, Oddworld, Tony Hawk's Pro Skater, Vagrant Story, Ape Escape, Arc the Lad, PaRappa, Colony Wars, Einhander, Tenchu, Dino Crisis, Ace Combat, Suikoden, and more. All (I think) started on the PlayStation.

How can anyone seriously brush aside all these awesome games is beyond me. Please leave your fanboyism aside and appreciate good games. You can love your favourite console and still appreciate what others have brought to the gaming table.
The ones that were 2.5D or otherwise on a flat plane held up the best.

Sure you had FF9, but by that point you were overtaxing the system.

PS2 gen was when 3d really matured.
 

Northeastmonk

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I liked the N64, but once Ocarina of Time had ran its course the system felt obsolete to me. They had made such a beautiful world with Ocarina of Time, but Majora’s Mask didn’t even come close to that initial OOT feeling. Where as the PlayStation had pre-rendered graphics, great fighting games, a large selection of JRPGs, survival horror, and lots of interesting obscure games.

I spent countless hours playing Wave Race, 1080 Snowboarding, Mario 64, 007 Goldeneye, Star Fox 64, Pilotwings 64, Turok, Zelda, and Rush. That’s like 9 titles. They each were groundbreaking. The list I have for PS1 is triple that. You had Final Fantasy IX around the time the PS2 was out and the game looked good. The N64 didn’t feel like it didn’t get another groundbreaking game for the longest time. The N64 controller was also hard to play fighting games. It worked well for racers, shooters, and adventure games. I thought the PS1 controller allowed for more precise movements.
 

scydrex

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What i remember most of the N64 controller was the analog destroying my hand playing Mario Party. The tug of War or whatever.
 

Yoboman

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I liked the N64, but once Ocarina of Time had ran its course the system felt obsolete to me. They had made such a beautiful world with Ocarina of Time, but Majora’s Mask didn’t even come close to that initial OOT feeling. Where as the PlayStation had pre-rendered graphics, great fighting games, a large selection of JRPGs, survival horror, and lots of interesting obscure games.

I spent countless hours playing Wave Race, 1080 Snowboarding, Mario 64, 007 Goldeneye, Star Fox 64, Pilotwings 64, Turok, Zelda, and Rush. That’s like 9 titles. They each were groundbreaking. The list I have for PS1 is triple that. You had Final Fantasy IX around the time the PS2 was out and the game looked good. The N64 didn’t feel like it didn’t get another groundbreaking game for the longest time. The N64 controller was also hard to play fighting games. It worked well for racers, shooters, and adventure games. I thought the PS1 controller allowed for more precise movements.
Yeah pre rendered graphics were underrated for the graphical prestige it gave PS1. I didn't know anything about graphics back then but my opinion was that FF games, Resident Evil 2 looked way better than anything on N64 visually
 
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marquimvfs

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Yeah pre rendered graphics were underrated for the graphical prestige it gave PS1. I didn't know anything about graphics back then but my opinion was that FF games, Resident Evil 2 looked way better than anything on N64 visually
Well, RE2 on N64 looked better than it...
 
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Super Mario 64 GIF
 

sunnysideup

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N64 was made to play mario 64. Everything else is a second thought. Its a badly designed console.

The prime purpose of a console is to be versatile as possible and useful for developers to create great innovative software and games. Not innovative hardware. Hardware innovation is completely overrated. Especially when it comes at an expense of everything else.

The prime example of this was the wii. While the the motion controls where innovative and "fun" in wii sports, it hampered almost any other game development.
 

nkarafo

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Also, I think the PS was the first console to play movies from VCDs and music from CDs. I'm not 100%, but I think.
I would be surprised if any of the older CD based consoles didn't play music CDs. At least i know i was playing them on my Mega CD.

Not sure about VCDs. But i would bet things like the CDi and 3DO (that were marketed as "multimedia" machines) could play them.

PS1.
- its CD drive brought us CGI cutscenes (and maybe by extension movie wannabe games?) which sucked back then and still suck nowadays.
- Ok right the CD music in some games was really great (like Tomb Raider).
Just no. Pretty much every other older CD based console did those waaay before the Playstation.
 
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Trimesh

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I would be surprised if any of the older CD based consoles didn't play music CDs. At least i know i was playing them on my Mega CD.

Not sure about VCDs. But i would bet things like the CDi and 3DO (that were marketed as "multimedia" machines) could play them.

Every CD based console I've ever seen could play audio CDs going back to the PC Engine CD - that even let you unplug the CD drive from the interface unit and use it as a portable CD player.

Talking about VCD in the context of the PSX is also pretty strange, since in general it wasn't supported, even as an option (which was how the CDi, 3DO and Saturn handled it) - there was a single PSX SKU (SCPH-5903), which was sold only in Asia that could play video CDs (it also broke with PlayStation tradition by having a white case), but that's it.
 

T0minator

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The PlayStation started the real cinematic experiences with full on voice acting and cd quality music.
The game experienced were enjoyed by millions becoming the first console to ever sell over 100 million unit ...Sony innovated by making videogames appealing to a broader audience.
 

K.N.W.

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Change ram. Lower latency setup with higher bandwidth. Latency killed cpu performance and bandwidth was limited. 4mb is fine to launch with to keep costs down, and the expansion pak could still be used. The expansion helped less than a better memory setup would, hence why games like banjo and conker and a lot of Nintendo brand games didn't use it. And increasing bandwidth would have made an expansion much more potent.
It's hard to get both, tough :p
 
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Going through this thread, I understand why the Switch sells so much.
Some guys are just blinded by their love for Nintendo.

I only owned the N64 back during that gen, didn't have a PS1 until years into the PS2 gen. And still, the PS1 was way more innovative than the N64.
 
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Wulfer

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N64.
- Super Mario 64 for the first compelling 3D Mario Gameplay. Anecdote: the Half-life designers were actually inspired by Mario 64 notably with the platforming in this game.
- Zelda 64 for everything it brought to 3D gaming.

PS1.
- its CD drive brought us CGI cutscenes (and maybe by extension movie wannabe games?) which sucked back then and still suck nowadays.
- Ok right the CD music in some games was really great (like Tomb Raider).

Huh I wonder which is better?
Even this is wrong the Saturn had red book audio with it's launch games Daytona USA and the very known Panzer Dragoon had some of the best audio in the business. Sony didn't innovate that it was already here! Also, a quarter of the Saturn library was shoehorned on to the PS1 Tomb Raider & Castlevania: Symphony of the Night were started on the Saturn. (Saturn even maintained the edge on graphics and speed on this CSOTN over PS1) Sony did what MS is finally doing now, they bought companies so, they could claim they had first party titles. Namco hated Sega so, they basically became a first party without Sony buying the company. Sega VS Namco was huge back then. Wipeout was originally a multiplatform game because it released on PC and the Saturn. PS1 had a graphical edge on everyone but, it wasn't until Square committed the great betrayal of FF7 did Sony start to pull away from the others. Sega closed up shop for that gen 8 months after Panzer Dragoon Saga was released and work on the Dreamcast began.
 
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BlackTron

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I'm getting a kick out of everyone thinking the question is which system is better, which system had more great games, which system was the better value, which system was more refined, ETC ETC.

The question posed was which system was more innovative.

If you asked me whether a Toyota Prius or Ford Mustang was more innovative, the answer is obviously Prius no matter how more I would prefer to drive a Mustang lol.
 
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BlackTron

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Going through this thread, I understand why the Switch sells so much.
Some guys are just blinded by their love for Nintendo.

I only owned the N64 back during that gen, didn't have a PS1 until years into the PS2 gen. And still, the PS1 was way more innovative than the N64.

I'm seeing the opposite effect in here. It appears that love for Sony is warping fans understanding of the word "innovation".

Also, blind love of Nintendo should have made the N64, Gamecube, and especially WiiU greater commercial successes. The big earners are Wii and Switch. I find it highly unlikely that Wii and Switch are so successful due only to "blind love". Nintendo delivered the right products at the right times for mass audience. Blind love will apparently not get you very far past the 20m mark as we have seen.
 
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Three

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N64
  • Analog stick paired WITH gameplay mechanics
  • Texture filtering
  • Anti Aliasing
  • Rumble Pak
PS
  • CD

N64 was waymore advanced BUT the Risc Processor of the PS was way cheaper and easier to develop


I would say PS because even though it didn't launch with it the PS still had these

PS
Dual sticks
Built in rumble
Discs
 
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thismeinteil

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The PS1, without a doubt. Name one thing that has remained in the industry that the N64 had? Huge cartridges? Nope. One analog stick? Nope. The tech that made that stick work? Nope. Separate rumble paks? Nope. Their shitty three handled controller? Nope.

There's no denying N64 had some great classic titles on the system, but when it comes to innovation, PS1 had it in spades.
 
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6502

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N64

It was an apple like blend of hardware and software complementary design (to its benefit and hinderance). It felt ahead of everything else until the dreamcast.

Psx had a more diverse and expansive library. It was great having such divergence in hardware design, we were spoiled with lots of unique and groundbreaking games across the platforms.
 
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64 launched at $199 in the states. And I agree, CD would have made more sense at the time but only commercially. In terms of retro gaming, carts are superior not just for loading and game design but also it's just such a joy to collect for. Solid carts that just work ,don't get scratched and no disc rot.

With my specs and carts, it could have launched at $249. So still cheaper than PlayStation and a significantly wider graphics advantage with perfect sound through sequenced audio.

With just the 4x CD-ROM drive yeah I think $249 might've worked, tho IIRC Nintendo only cut the US price to $199 because Sony and Sega had already cut the price of PlayStation and Saturn to $199 by then, and Nintendo felt they had to respond with their own price cut.

Knowing Nintendo's model, that $249 was probably at a profit, so I'm speculating what their price with those specs would've been if they wanted to sell at a profit. If they just wanted to sell at-cost I think with the 4x drive and extra RAM $249 would be too low IMO, $299 sounds closer to what it'd of been, just IMO.

If using the same measuring stick (forward looking) - why? PS2 (like N64 before it) actually was forward looking with compute architecture that basically foreshadowed the next 20 years of graphics / programmable compute development. GC was mainly a reactionary design, with a featureset inherited from 1999 era PC GPUs. Powerful and easy to use - but decidedly not forward looking.
The other areas (expandability, optical-format advancement, add-ons) were also completely PS2 dominated. Hell in addition to bringing DVD playback to mainstream, popularizing motion controls and AR, PS2 was also first to deliver standalone fully functional PC from a console (and/or retail console as a devkit), introduced the world to first smart-TVs, had a DVR SKU, and even a fully functional Netflix player at the tail end of its life. It came much closer to the promise of the 'all-in-one' living-room device than anything its 'would be but never-were' successors in this area (PS3 and XB1) tried.

How was the PS2 completely forward-thinking when it lacked programmable shaders? Even the Gamecube had those, certainly the Xbox did. (EDIT: Actually it wasn't programmable shaders, that's 360-era stuff. But it was something else GPU-related both Gamecube and Xbox had which PS2 completely lacked, will have to look into it again). And the Dreamcast was the only console for a long time with tiled rendering (which is now a common feature in GPU designs). I think you can say PS2 was forward-thinking in some ways without completely dismissing the competition for being forward-thinking in their onw ways, and in some cases having features the PS2 lacked.

PS2 didn't actually have a lot of add-on support, unless you want to call peripherals like the hard drive and modem (both of which were standard with the Xbox, even the Dreamcast had a built-in modem) as add-ons, which doesn't fit the traditional use of that term. I think it's a stretch to claim the PS2 popularized motion controls (let alone AR), because while you're referring to the Eye Toy there that peripheral was mainly used for games that didn't appeal to hardcore or core gamers, and were still pretty niche. But if the argument is that PS2 innovated there, then I think that's agreeable.

For the other stuff, again there's having innovation but phrasing it like they "completely dominated" is just not paying attention to what competitors did in that space. Gamecube had the iQue which had a lot of home media extended functionality at least two years before the PSX, and older consoles like the Saturn, Super Famicom, or even portables like the Nomad had TV tuner and satellite compatible variants. It's also a bit of a stretch to say the Linux distro for PS2 made it a "fully functional PC"; you were severely limited in what programs would realistically run on it and modification the user could make, compared to an actual PC running Linux at that time. It was basically meant as an extension of Sony's Net Yazore system, not that Sony were the first to explore that type of concept either (similar software added that type of dev functionality for stock Saturn units, and systems like the PC-FX got PC GPU cards with software to allow game development).

More people should play Dragon Force, Dragon Force II, Shinning Force III (the imports scenario 1,2,3 translated, not the US release) and Panzer Dragoon Saga.

More people should play the Sega Saturn in general.

Yeah the Saturn still gets some flak from dismissive people but in terms of overall library it's 2nd for that gen only behind PS1. I feel like it and PS1 both have more games that "hold up" (I kind of actually hate this concept of games suddenly getting worst over time simply because of when they came out, especially if they're games from 16-bit or later, tho for some fully 3D games I can kind of understand it) better and just have more variety in quality games among their library.

Sure among general popularity N64's absolute best hit higher than any single game on PS1 or Saturn, but for a lot of people they may prefer other types or specific games not on the N64 a lot more, and you have more solid, quality options to choose from with them compared to N64.

Even this is wrong the Saturn had red book audio with it's lunch games Daytona USA and the very known Panzer Dragoon had some of the best audio in the business. Sony didn't innovate that it was already here! Also, a quarter of the Saturn library was shoehorned on to the PS1 Tomb Raider & Castlevania: Symphony of the Night were started on the Saturn. (Saturn even maintained the edge on graphics and speed on this CSOTN over PS1) Sony did what MS is finally doing now, they bought companies so, they could claim they had first party titles. Namco hated Sega so, they basically became a first party without Sony buying the company. Sega VS Namco was huge back then. Wipeout was originally a multiplatform game because it released on PC and the Saturn. PS1 had a graphical edge on everyone but, it wasn't until Square committed the great betrayal of FF7 did Sony start to pull away from the others. Sega closed up shop for that gen 8 months after Panzer Dragoon Saga was released and work on the Dreamcast began.

A few things: Sony did buy companies, that much is absolutely true. But they were pretty small or not known for mega hits (in some cases being complete unknowns), the big exception to that being Psygnosis. So it's closer to what Microsoft did in buying Ninja Theory, Double Fine etc. than a Zenimax (the Psygnosis acquisition is the closest to that, and like Zenimax, they had to honor existing contracts and still port several games to Sega and Nintendo consoles).

What Sony really did was lock up a ton of timed and, later, full contract-based exclusivity deals, and they were the first platform holder to really push that model primarily due to their size compared to Nintendo and Sega. Mortal Kombat 3, for example, was a timed launch exclusive on PS1. Tomb Raider was going to be a Saturn exclusive until Sony and Eidos got to talking and forced Core to make a PS1 version (then Sony signed an exclusivity deal with Eidos for Tomb Raider 2). When Saturn was falling apart in the West, Sony signed a lot more exclusivity deals, taking away options from a still-healthy Nintendo (altho they did themselves no favors with how they handled the 64DD).

Also, dev on the Dreamcast began way before PD Saga's release; they were already in planning stages in 1996 and testing two devkit designs (Dural and Blackbelt/Katana) in 1997, internally.
 
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xpresstuning

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Yeah the Saturn still gets some flak from dismissive people but in terms of overall library it's 2nd for that gen only behind PS1. I feel like it and PS1 both have more games that "hold up" (I kind of actually hate this concept of games suddenly getting worst over time simply because of when they came out, especially if they're games from 16-bit or later, tho for some fully 3D games I can kind of understand it) better and just have more variety in quality games among their library.

Sure among general popularity N64's absolute best hit higher than any single game on PS1 or Saturn, but for a lot of people they may prefer other types or specific games not on the N64 a lot more, and you have more solid, quality options to choose from with them compared to N64.

The Sega Saturn eclipses the N64 in quality, quantity and games that "hold up", and i'm not even that big of a fan of retro machines or home consoles in general; I'm primarily a PC gamer and have been so for 20 years and counting. There is basically nothing worth playing on the N64 in 2021- Everything on it has been superseded, replicated and improved upon, ported elsewhere. There are about 50 games worth playing on the original Sega Saturn in 2021, which is absolutely mind-boggling for a 5th generation machine. Or for any machine in general that's not a desktop PC.

The Sega Saturn is the only home console i physically own and have connected to a CRT TV. I can emulate pretty much everything else on my desktop PC, and the consoles that i can't basically have nothing that interest me. The Sega Saturn is emulated nicely on SSF and Mednafen, but they really need to get rid of the input lag which is very noticeable if you have any experience with the real thing. The reason why i have a Saturn is because of the amount of fantastic exclusives, superior ports, exclusive content that compliment arcade ports (Vampire Savior and Street Fighter Zero[Alpha] 3 have their best iteration on the Saturn, despite modern re-releases), and generally 90s Japan being 90s Japan. It's an incredible machine with an incredible library of video games that have remained exclusive for the most part, and it would be a catastrophic failure not to experience that machine and what SEGA represented.

Pretty much every great game on the Sega Saturn 'holds up'. If the framerate is solid and the controls are responsive then it's easy. If the artistic vision is genuine and if the game is built with passion in mind and not just to sell copies, then that never "ages". Technically they will age as does all older software on old hardware, but as long as you appreciate games based on the time and system they were made on and not foolishly compare them to what you can find on modern platforms, then that's a non-issue. And if we're strictly talking about 2D games, well that shit never ages, especially on a system like the Sega Saturn.

I think the Sega Saturn has seen a very poignant resurgence in recent years thanks to the availability of reproduced video games for it and translation projects that have seen completion.
 

nkarafo

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The Sega Saturn eclipses the N64 in quality, quantity and games that "hold up", and i'm not even that big of a fan of retro machines or home consoles in general; I'm primarily a PC gamer and have been so for 20 years and counting. There is basically nothing worth playing on the N64 in 2021- Everything on it has been superseded, replicated and improved upon, ported elsewhere. There are about 50 games worth playing on the original Sega Saturn in 2021, which is absolutely mind-boggling for a 5th generation machine. Or for any machine in general that's not a desktop PC.

The Sega Saturn is the only home console i physically own and have connected to a CRT TV. I can emulate pretty much everything else on my desktop PC, and the consoles that i can't basically have nothing that interest me. The Sega Saturn is emulated nicely on SSF and Mednafen, but they really need to get rid of the input lag which is very noticeable if you have any experience with the real thing. The reason why i have a Saturn is because of the amount of fantastic exclusives, superior ports, exclusive content that compliment arcade ports (Vampire Savior and Street Fighter Zero[Alpha] 3 have their best iteration on the Saturn, despite modern re-releases), and generally 90s Japan being 90s Japan. It's an incredible machine with an incredible library of video games that have remained exclusive for the most part, and it would be a catastrophic failure not to experience that machine and what SEGA represented.

Pretty much every great game on the Sega Saturn 'holds up'. If the framerate is solid and the controls are responsive then it's easy. If the artistic vision is genuine and if the game is built with passion in mind and not just to sell copies, then that never "ages". Technically they will age as does all older software on old hardware, but as long as you appreciate games based on the time and system they were made on and not foolishly compare them to what you can find on modern platforms, then that's a non-issue. And if we're strictly talking about 2D games, well that shit never ages, especially on a system like the Sega Saturn.

I think the Sega Saturn has seen a very poignant resurgence in recent years thanks to the availability of reproduced video games for it and translation projects that have seen completion.
Disagree heavily. I think the Saturn has aged the worst when it comes to it's 3D games. The 2D games hold up but not anything else.

I also disagree that everything on N64 has been superseded. Super Mario 64 still has the best controls in any 3D platform, Banjo - Kazooie is still the best and most balanced collectathon, Doom 64 is still the most impressive Doom engine game, Wave Race still has the best physics in the genre, Majora's Mask is the most unique Zelda, OOT is still the best Zelda for many people (the remastered version changed it's atmosphere in a worse way IMO) and has there ever been any game similar to Blast Corps? Ever? Those are just on top of my head. You seem completely unfamiliar with the N64 library if you ask me.
 
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The Sega Saturn eclipses the N64 in quality, quantity and games that "hold up", and i'm not even that big of a fan of retro machines or home consoles in general; I'm primarily a PC gamer and have been so for 20 years and counting. There is basically nothing worth playing on the N64 in 2021- Everything on it has been superseded, replicated and improved upon, ported elsewhere. There are about 50 games worth playing on the original Sega Saturn in 2021, which is absolutely mind-boggling for a 5th generation machine. Or for any machine in general that's not a desktop PC.

The Sega Saturn is the only home console i physically own and have connected to a CRT TV. I can emulate pretty much everything else on my desktop PC, and the consoles that i can't basically have nothing that interest me. The Sega Saturn is emulated nicely on SSF and Mednafen, but they really need to get rid of the input lag which is very noticeable if you have any experience with the real thing. The reason why i have a Saturn is because of the amount of fantastic exclusives, superior ports, exclusive content that compliment arcade ports (Vampire Savior and Street Fighter Zero[Alpha] 3 have their best iteration on the Saturn, despite modern re-releases), and generally 90s Japan being 90s Japan. It's an incredible machine with an incredible library of video games that have remained exclusive for the most part, and it would be a catastrophic failure not to experience that machine and what SEGA represented.

Pretty much every great game on the Sega Saturn 'holds up'. If the framerate is solid and the controls are responsive then it's easy. If the artistic vision is genuine and if the game is built with passion in mind and not just to sell copies, then that never "ages". Technically they will age as does all older software on old hardware, but as long as you appreciate games based on the time and system they were made on and not foolishly compare them to what you can find on modern platforms, then that's a non-issue. And if we're strictly talking about 2D games, well that shit never ages, especially on a system like the Sega Saturn.

I think the Sega Saturn has seen a very poignant resurgence in recent years thanks to the availability of reproduced video games for it and translation projects that have seen completion.

For me there are definitely still some N64 games worth playing today; Mischief Makers, Iggy's Wrecking Balls, the Ganbare Goemon games etc. But it's also true that Saturn has a lot more of such games that either have their best versions on Saturn or can only be played there. People who think of it as a weak 3D system (compared to PS1) really need to play the 1st-party games to see what it's really capable of; there's stuff in games like Panzer Dragoon Zwei for example that'd be incredibly difficult to replicate on a PS1 or N64 even by the best of developers.

I'd love to play more Saturn games, but collecting for it is something I've never fancied to do. Ideally, I've been thinking of picking up a physical Saturn and a mod like the Satiator for it to run ISOs of games off of, getting the best of both worlds: ease of access to the library on fast solid state storage, and running the games on real hardware to get perfect accuracy. Just depends on when things like the Satiator are actually available and if they'll become a bit more affordable (last I checked they were $260, not sure if that includes a kit with a modded Saturn or just the Satiator itself, have to recheck).

And it's a really good thing to see systems like Saturn getting the respect they deserve; there was a weird period from the late '00s to early-mid 2010s where it seemed like everyone was shitting on it running with the popular narratives and having no experience with the library itself. Big publications like WIRED and CNET with hacks writing trash opinion pieces to look hipster-cool to an ignorant audience, etc. I think Youtube content creators like Sega Lord X, Jenovi, ,Retro Pals (who also stream a lot) etc. have been really helpful in getting retro systems like Saturn (and others) the attention and respect they've deserved.
 
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nkarafo

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Castlevania: Symphony of the Night were started on the Saturn.
Huh?

Saturn version isn't even scaled properly because they couldn't fit the PS1 assets without having to re-do a lot of stuff.

Where do you get this information?
 
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xpresstuning

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Disagree heavily. I think the Saturn has aged the worst when it comes to it's 3D games. The 2D games hold up but not anything else.

I also disagree that everything on N64 has been superseded. Super Mario 64 still has the best controls in any 3D platform, Banjo - Kazooie is still the best and most balanced collectathon, Doom 64 is still the most impressive Doom engine game, Wave Race still has the best physics in the genre, Majora's Mask is the most unique Zelda, OOT is still the best Zelda for many people (the remastered version changed it's atmosphere in a worse way IMO) and has there ever been any game similar to Blast Corps? Ever? Those are just on top of my head. You seem completely unfamiliar with the N64 library if you ask me.

Feel free to disagree, i can respect that because it's all personal experience anyway which will diverge heavily from one person to the next. I would never say something unless i know what i'm saying, i have experience with the N64 because i owned the machine and have extensively dabbled in its library back in 2008 - 2009, then quit on it because there was nothing that captured my attention enough to actually keep it. Though it's worth noting that i never played these systems in their day. No feelings attached.

Superseded, replicated and improved upon, ported elsewhere. A combination of things. I didn't say that everything was superseded. Doom 64's on Steam and everywhere else. OoT and Majora's Mask run in 20 FPS on the original machine and i don't think their 3DS enhanced ports are inferior, but i know the changes in the 3DS port of Majora's Mask caused some backlash. I don't like Zelda, at all, so i don't care to discuss them further. I literally tried them all for a fair shake, but they're just not my thing. I cannot care less about Blast Corps, i know of it ofcourse, i've read on it, seen videos, played it once to give it a fair try 11 years ago and haven't touched it since. I know a lot of N64 fans like it, and i never understood its appeal. I can also emulate the games on that machine in an infinitely higher resolution with graphical mods and better controls - that's also what i had in mind wen i said that there is nothing worth playing on the N64 in 2021. Why would i keep it under my TV?

Mischief Makers is great. I forgot about that one. That game is really good. Ganbare Goemon, i think i recall 3 of them on that system, one of which didn't interest me at all. The others, same deal as with Blast Corps. Off the top of my head.. there's nothing, and i don't care to do any googling today. I quit on the N64 for a reason all those years ago.

I'd love to play more Saturn games, but collecting for it is something I've never fancied to do. Ideally, I've been thinking of picking up a physical Saturn and a mod like the Satiator for it to run ISOs of games off of, getting the best of both worlds: ease of access to the library on fast solid state storage, and running the games on real hardware to get perfect accuracy. Just depends on when things like the Satiator are actually available and if they'll become a bit more affordable (last I checked they were $260, not sure if that includes a kit with a modded Saturn or just the Satiator itself, have to recheck).

And it's a really good thing to see systems like Saturn getting the respect they deserve; there was a weird period from the late '00s to early-mid 2010s where it seemed like everyone was shitting on it running with the popular narratives and having no experience with the library itself. Big publications like WIRED and CNET with hacks writing trash opinion pieces to look hipster-cool to an ignorant audience, etc. I think Youtube content creators like Sega Lord X, Jenovi, ,Retro Pals (who also stream a lot) etc. have been really helpful in getting retro systems like Saturn (and others) the attention and respect they've deserved.

I would love to collect all the games i'm interested for it. But i am a poor fucker, so if i can't afford the US\PAL release (if it's 100$ or below - maaybe 150$, it's fine, if it's above nope) i resort to imports which are in most cases 1000 times cheaper and they're the next best thing for collecting purposes. A large portion of its great games are imports, so it's no problem.

If the imports are far too expensive, then i resort to reproductions. For example, here's Cotton 2: Magical Nights Dreams english patched. That shit is basically identical and looks nice on the shelf. So i will obviously get that, and not a used copy of the original import for 300$ on which i will apply the english patch. Psychic Killer Taromaru? Great game - one problem. It's 1000$. Here's the 17.99 Euro version. You're welcome.

Check this channel as well.
 

Eddie-Griffin

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The PS1.

Good few things mentioned in this thread for N64 were done by 3DO and/or Jaguar. Some also on PC.

How can Nintendo popularize the analog stick when the dual shock drove mass adoption, which was based in the Dual Analog and the Dual stick from 1996? The N64 stick isn't even analog.

Z targeting is targeting it's not new.

PlayStation invented the modern dual stick configuration.

PC did, then Sony made a stock controller based on arcade simulators then made DS/DA from that, it's why most games that used both analogs were twin stick games and mist games dont use the right stick if they use analog at all.

They also are very different, there is nothing like Mario 64 and it's Rare made clones on the PlayStation,
Except Gex Enter the Gecko, and Croc 2, and Spyro and...

The popular belief is that the Wii brought gaming to the "non-gaming casuals". But the PS1 did it first.

The N64 had more innovations though.
You're taking about two completely different groups of casuals

Sorry to crush a dream. CDi and hell even Saturn had better FMV playback with their movie cards. The Neo Geo did memory cards long before SONY and Atari beat everyone to 4 player ports as standard
I think the N64 was true 1st for voice commands though
CD-i did memory cards and internal storage too. So did 3DO.
 

K' Dash

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PS1 couldn't even do real 3D.

N64 had a smaller library, but most of those games were the foundation of what 3D gaming is today.
 
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cireza

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Even this is wrong the Saturn had red book audio with it's lunch games Daytona USA and the very known Panzer Dragoon had some of the best audio in the business. Sony didn't innovate that it was already here! Also, a quarter of the Saturn library was shoehorned on to the PS1 Tomb Raider & Castlevania: Symphony of the Night were started on the Saturn. (Saturn even maintained the edge on graphics and speed on this CSOTN over PS1) Sony did what MS is finally doing now, they bought companies so, they could claim they had first party titles. Namco hated Sega so, they basically became a first party without Sony buying the company. Sega VS Namco was huge back then. Wipeout was originally a multiplatform game because it released on PC and the Saturn. PS1 had a graphical edge on everyone but, it wasn't until Square committed the great betrayal of FF7 did Sony start to pull away from the others. Sega closed up shop for that gen 8 months after Panzer Dragoon Saga was released and work on the Dreamcast began.
Symphony of the Night started as a 32X project.

My answer is the Saturn. N64 was definitely interesting as well. PS1 really as nothing for it, except for the fact that it was cheap and easy to develop for.

Saturn is the only console among the three to mix proper hardware support for both 2D and 3D, while PS1 and N64 were targeting only 3D. Saturn had an expansion slot with very fast access, which enabled RAM upgrades. It supported the CD format, as well as a port dedicated to MPEG carts for improved videos. It had the Nights controller in 1996, pretty much at the same time as the N64 was released, and this controller was the fundation of the Dreamcast controller, that led to Xbox OG, 360 etc... It had a true 360° and analog triggers, as well as the layout we all know today. You could connect the console to the internet as well, and some online games were released.
 
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Eddie-Griffin

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Sure, if you like jaggies.

Gen 5 was the 3d equivalent of the 2600.

You mean NES. 2600 sprites animated fast, were clean, and didn't look blurry and pixelated.

Disagree heavily. I think the Saturn has aged the worst when it comes to it's 3D games. The 2D games hold up but not anything else.

I also disagree that everything on N64 has been superseded. Super Mario 64 still has the best controls in any 3D platform,

Mario 64s controls are only good in an empty space, not while actually going through the mixed stage design, actually platforming.

I'm seeing the opposite effect in here. It appears that love for Sony is warping fans understanding of the word "innovation".

Also, blind love of Nintendo should have made the N64, Gamecube, and especially WiiU greater commercial successes. The big earners are Wii and Switch. I find it highly unlikely that Wii and Switch are so successful due only to "blind love". Nintendo delivered the right products at the right times for mass audience. Blind love will apparently not get you very far past the 20m mark as we have seen.

The N64, Gamecube, and Wii U arguably only sold above 10 million units because of bias. All due mostly to the same states in the same country.
If you're going that route, the PS1 controller is literally just an updated variant of the SNES controller. The SNES was the console that actually gave us the "modern" controller (four face buttons in a diamond layout as well as shoulder buttons and a rounded shape).

And even then, you could also argue that the SNES controller was just an updated NES controller with more buttons.
But NES controller is just a downgraded Vectrex controller with one less button and the analog stick replaced with a dpad.

See how that works?

Nintendo had 100% exclusivity on the console FPS market that they themselves had just created, and ceded it utterly and totally to a newcomer without even trying to hold onto it.
Jaguars best selling games are literally 3 FPS games. AVP, Doom, Wolfenstein. (4 if you include Iron Soldier)

That was Sega America and the 32X.
The 32X was working until SOJ killed it.

I feel like analog was the most groundbreaking feature here overall
To bad N64 was the first, nor used analog and used a digital joystick.

Turok - revolutionized the FPS genre on consoles
Mario 64 - pioneered the 3D Platformer genre
Golden Eye - reinvented Multiplayer gaming on consoles

That's a strong liquid you're drinking my man.

Even in the PC space it wasn't always expected for a game to have a CD-ROM version. System Shock for example initially launched on floppy disks, they only released a CD version a little while later. Same goes for other games like DOOM. I don't think CD-ROM became a standard for PC games until the mid '90s, pretty much around the time of the PS1.

Uh, CD was quickly becoming the stardard in 1992 and pretty much was the standard in 93. You just had a few titles that were behind as floppy had a large audience and it took time for that to stop being profitable.

Myst alone sold more CD drives than the PS1 did it's first two years.
Sure, if you like jaggies.

Gen 5 was the 3d equivalent of the 2600.

You mean NES. 2600 sprites animated fast, were clean, and didn't look blurry and pixelated.

Disagree heavily. I think the Saturn has aged the worst when it comes to it's 3D games. The 2D games hold up but not anything else.

I also disagree that everything on N64 has been superseded. Super Mario 64 still has the best controls in any 3D platform,

Mario 64s controls are only good in an empty space, not while actually going through the mixed stage design, actually platforming.

I'm seeing the opposite effect in here. It appears that love for Sony is warping fans understanding of the word "innovation".

Also, blind love of Nintendo should have made the N64, Gamecube, and especially WiiU greater commercial successes. The big earners are Wii and Switch. I find it highly unlikely that Wii and Switch are so successful due only to "blind love". Nintendo delivered the right products at the right times for mass audience. Blind love will apparently not get you very far past the 20m mark as we have seen.

The N64, Gamecube, and Wii U arguably only sold above 10 million units because of bias. All due mostly to the same states in the same country.
 
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StateofMajora

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thicc_girls_are_teh_best thicc_girls_are_teh_best No I think 249 would have been the price for a cart based system with those specs.

The n64 launched at 199. With CD, probably be 300 at least with those specs.

Edit : oh i see what you’re saying now. I forgot that ps1 was also 199, so yeah a sub 300 n64 would definitely be possible even with cd.
 
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nkarafo

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To bad N64 was the first, nor used analog and used a digital joystick.
What is this nonsense?

Thread is all over the place. People claiming the PS1 was the first console that used CDs and now the N64 controller doesn't have an analog stick.

Have you played any N64 game man? Have you played Mario 64? The stick allows for a wide range of running speeds. Have you played any N64 FPS? Aiming speed with the stick depends on how much you push it and there is a very wide range. This isn't how digital joysticks or the D-pad work.
 
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