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Hardware Platform Nintendo 64 Vs. PlayStation: Which console was more innovative?

sainraja

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Its not about popularity, its about innovation. You just can't credit the PS1 for the CDs in any scenario. But crediting the N64 for the analog seems more reasonable.
The person who responded to you wasn't talking about innovation. He was talking about popularity. Since the PlayStation was more popular than the consoles before it, it's credited with popularizing the CD's use in consoles.
 
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sainraja

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So the SNES made modern controllers then. Sony just bolted two sticks on the bottom of the controller because they had to do something regarding the 64.

No, actually take a look. On SNES most games started using Y and B as the main buttons. N64 confirmed it by moving A and B to those positions. PS1 had a weird mix of circle and X as confirm. Since PS is now a western company, they too have moved globally to that standard.

Black and white buttons weren't important that gen, as all four shoulder buttons largely weren't used. Just as the right stick on PS1 was barely used, but that's more of a fault of the PS1s lack of good FPS games.
The SNES controller has influenced many controllers that came after it which includes the DualShock. The general shape of the DualShock (different than the SNES mind you) and its two sticks with the four shoulder buttons similarly influenced controllers that came after it.
 
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YCoCg

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So the SNES made modern controllers then. Sony just bolted two sticks on the bottom of the controller because they had to do something regarding the 64.
No, because the way a person holds and physically handles a SNES controller is different to how a Dual Shock and modern gaming controller is.
 

Dream-Knife

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No, because the way a person holds and physically handles a SNES controller is different to how a Dual Shock and modern gaming controller is.
How so? I hold them the same. I also hold an N64 the same, just for most games my left hand is closer to me than my right.
 

YCoCg

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The Playstation did nothing with CDs the 3DO didn't do before it.
See my earlier post "No one cares about Audio, just Graphics". Sony pushed a lot of audio tricks and styles with the PS1 that no other console was doing at the time, hell the closest in complexity was probably the SNES audio chip which was designed by Sony anyway.

Sadly audio is taken for granted these days but back then the PS1 was doing things that a lot of home computers could not do.
 
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PlayStation's biggest innovation was its content and marketing. Gaming was no longer seen as a hobby only for nerds/kids. Hardware wise it innovated in 3D gaming like it was never experienced before. It beat the N64 to the market, and the Saturn couldn't do 3D as well.

Was the N64 more impressive in terms of tech? Yes and No. It came out a whole year later to NA and took even longer to hit Japan after the PSone was making it big over there. Super Mario 64 was impressive but PlayStation had Tomb Raider, it had Resident Evil, and many more later like Metal Gear Solid. The tone of PlayStation content was different and had a lot more variety, it also made popular "hollywood style experiences". Final Fantasy VII wouldn't be the same had it been developed for the N64. In fact, very few of the more cinematic experiences found on PlayStation could be possible on N64 hardware. PlayStation opened the way to the future. Nintendo 64 had a bunch of very innovative games, but they're only doing some stuff better, not that they were first in doing those.
 
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nkarafo

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The person who responded to you wasn't talking about innovation. He was talking about popularity. Since the PlayStation was more popular than the consoles before it, it's credited with popularizing the CD's use in consoles.
Thing is, CDs were old news at the time the PS1 was released. Magazines at the time didn't even cover that fact since that was already covered by the numerous CD based consoles before it.

The press hyped the CD technology from 1991 to 1993 and then it became something not worth talking about.

The PS1 certainly got popular with non gamers but for gamers at the time CDs weren't a big deal.
 
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YCoCg

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How so? I hold them the same. I also hold an N64 the same, just for most games my left hand is closer to me than my right.
Well then you're weird because the design shift caused majority of gamers to go from holding flat to clam like. If you're holding either the other way then that's not normal.
 
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sainraja

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How so? I hold them the same. I also hold an N64 the same, just for most games my left hand is closer to me than my right.
I am starting to question if you know what the SNES controller looks like.
Thing is, CDs were old news at the time the PS1 was released. Magazines at the time didn't even cover that fact since that was already covered by the numerous consoles before it.

The press hyped the CD technology from 1991 to 1993 and then it became something not worth talking about.

The PS1 certainly got popular with non gamers but for gamers at the time CDs weren't a big deal.
I am not talking about CD-ROM as an overall format. I am just saying what it did for console gaming at the time and since Sony was the one to use it with the PS1 and they found success in gaming (PlayStation became a popular gaming company) and its also cited as the reason Sony had the advantage over the N64. Sony carried on to do the same with DVD/Blu-ray with different levels of success, of course.
 

Dream-Knife

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Well then you're weird because the design shift caused majority of gamers to go from holding flat to clam like. If you're holding either the other way then that's not normal.
What's holding flat?
 
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sainraja

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What's holding flat?
The shape of the SNES controller is flat so you have the controller resting in your hands when you play. Any controller after the DualShock has handles that your hands "hug" when you're using the controllers.
 
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Kimahri

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Innovation doesn't mean invention. You can use something that's been done before, and use it in a new way. Which is what the PlayStation and Nintendo 64 did with CD and the analog stick. Both have existed before, but Sony and Nintendo used them in new and practical ways.
I just don't agree. They made a great product, but it was an iteration, not an innovatoon thr way I see it.
 

Dream-Knife

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The shape of the SNES controller is flat so you have the controller resting in your hands when you play. Any controller after the DualShock has handles that your hands "hug" when you're using the controllers.
I essentially pinch it along the edge to use the shoulder buttons. It's like a less ergonomic PS1 controller.
 
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StateofMajora

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Just fucking imagine if

- N64 would’ve launched in 1995
- The N64 would’ve had a 4x CD-ROM
- The N64 would’ve had direct memory access for the VDP and a separate video ram for it
- The N64 would’ve had the extra 4mb RDRAM accessory built-in day one

The competition wouldn’t have held a candle.
You missed one of the most important things ; a sound chip.

Me personally though, would have kept carts and some games would be really different without the carts. But I realize cd made more commercial sense. A 4x drive would have helped. They'd have had to charge more, but if they had the dev support people would pay it.

My ultimate n64 release would be : Carts and,

Change ram. Lower latency setup with higher bandwidth. Latency killed cpu performance and bandwidth was limited. 4mb is fine to launch with to keep costs down, and the expansion pak could still be used. The expansion helped less than a better memory setup would, hence why games like banjo and conker and a lot of Nintendo brand games didn't use it. And increasing bandwidth would have made an expansion much more potent.

Sound chip. Help the cpu free cycles up and have ps1 quality sound. The reasons for low fps on 64 sometimes? The memory setup and no soundchip.

16 kb texture cache for better textures.

Keep AA filter but remove 2nd blur pass. I really don't see any point of the blur, esp. on crt.

N64 had pretty bad dev tools though so to get it out even faster, eh probably would have been even worse. Better documentation and better treatment of 3rd party (letting everyone use custom micro code) was important as well. With the default micro code it's possible to push less polys than ps1. If it had cds, a 96 release would have been ok still.
 

Poop!

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Yeah, you're right, Sony made them mainstream since PlayStation sold way more. Most people had never experienced rumble and analog sticks before they got a PSX

The PS1 didn't launch with rumble or analog controllers.
 

rubenburgt

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I forgot the PS1 didn't had analog sticks.

Yeah, n64 was more innovative.
(But the PS1 was more successful.)
 
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You do understand there were multiple consoles before the PSX that used CDs, right? And that it didn't launch with the Dual Shock - the original PSX pad was digital only and borrowed very heavily from the Super Famicom/SNES controller except that the buttons had symbols on them and it had secondary L + R triggers.
The DualShock is still the Grand Daddy of modern controllers, it cemented the layout and form factor, the NES and SNES controllers are ancestors (very important also).

The n64 had its analog sticks, but it was also very bad.
homer simpson jar GIF
 

Rickyiez

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Umm you are missing one game from Sony --- The Legend of Dragoon one of the best RPG games ever made from Sony if not ever
I might have missed a few that I didn't get to play . Like you said Legend of Dragoon as well as Final Fantasy Tactics that is hailed by many
 

polybius80

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I think the question is a bit tricky and the analysis doesn't follow clear rules to chose one, for example you mention the rumble pack, you count the rumble as a N64 innovation but it wasnt included in the console, its an accessory you had to buy and there are people that have a N64 and never had a rumble pack(me included), you can of course acquire a game with it or buy it, but isnt it the same as buying a PSX with a dual shock or buying a dual shock? so is it really a innovation of the console or just an innovative accessory? so can we count the dance dance revolution dance controllers as a innovation of PSX console? or the namco guncon? so what is the criteria to say its a consoles innovation?

something similar happen with the analog, while not new(see past consoles and computers) it was something that came with the console so we can count it as a N64 innovation but again if rumble is an innovation and it was an accessory then what happens with double analog that are also buttons? those are a standard now along with more than 1 rumble motor to produce different rumbles, is it a console innovation or an innovative accessory or an innovation over an innovative accessory? is it more an innovation if it was adopted by most consoles?
 
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EruditeHobo

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N64 had better games IMO. It was just missing Xenogears.

Man. I sure would like to see these lists written out for the purposes of comparison...

I had both and loved both at the time, and still love them for what they are, but I have real trouble believing anyone -- unless we are talking a Nintendo superfan -- could say this with a straight face.
 

EruditeHobo

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Much better and varied than Spyro, Crash and GT. Please don’t list a load of weeb games.

Does this just mean Japanese games?

Talk about conceding defeat. Why even start the list in the first place, when you just come in and take the L with this? Stunning.

Final Fantasy 7-9, Tactics, Xenogears, Tekken, MGS... "weeb games". lol.
 

scydrex

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I had both and played both a lot. Hardware wise N64. Software side PS1. Played almost every good game or the best games on both platforms. I choose the PS1 as the winner.
 
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polybius80

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I'm not aware that analogue sticks had EVER been used on a controller before, and coupled with the proof of concept that was Mario 64, they basically instantly showed the whole industry how 3d games should be approached from now on. I mean, really, with the camera buttons, they even went 90% of the way to defining the dual stick setup as well.

If that's not innovation, I don't know what is. It was a genius move.

apple 2 controller? atari 5200 controller?, maybe you are too young




not being "aware" of something, doesn't men it doesn't exist, you can simply use google or a similar search engine to find out

mario 64 was an innovative game not an "innovative console" and wasn't necessarily included in the console, the question is about consoles
 
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EruditeHobo

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This is just a list of some popular and some random games.

The PS1 has literally almost 10x times bigger library than the N64, it's going to win by default if we just make lists of games and judge them by their size. Doesn't matter if the games are bad or good, the point of these lists is to "prove" that one console has "more good games" than the other and any system that has a more games will "win".

These lists are pointless. Both consoles have their fair share of good and bad games.

Sure.

And PSX has a much, much larger library of games that meet the threshold of "good". It doesn't matter that it was so popular and cheaper to develop for and so had many more games overall. It still had more "good" games and a wider variety of games in general.

Guess what, it also had more bad games! Obviously. Not even PSX stans would argue that.

By the way, on topic -- N64 with the controller and focus on multiplayer with 4 controller ports alone is IMO more innovative.
PSX still had the much much better game library. And I say that really liking what was put out on N64, and thinking the best overall game in terms of innovation & impact is an N64 game!
 
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N64
  • Analog stick paired WITH gameplay mechanics
  • Texture filtering
  • Anti Aliasing
  • Rumble Pak
PS
  • CD

N64 was waymore advanced BUT the Risc Processor of the PS was way cheaper and easier to develop
This. Not to mention the N64 was the first Console to use AMD (then, ATI) as a GPU. PlayStation had a better following as I recall people being excited that it was simply a Sony product. Nintendo, for the time, had better tech.
 

marquimvfs

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( imo n64 has alot more bad games then good games) so yeah n64 as a console and having the best games of all time but playstation for having way more enjoyable games then the duds on n64
Err, I think you got it wrong. Its quite the opposite, playstation haves way more games, but the amount of good ones it's actually lower than the N64's.
 

polybius80

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The N64 controller was designed with Mario 64 in mind.

is that why the d-pad is so useful in that game?

No, at time is was said that the controller was designed to be used in diferent ways based on how you hold the controller, one is the traditional controller(snes style) and the 3d version for 3d games, sure mario 64 uses the 3d style very well and it includes what it needs wich is obvious as it was it was the most important of their first 3d game for the system but is not just for mario 64 only, is not as if other 3d games becomes uncomfortable with it just for having different mechanics in fact a second stick can do wonder to the game

the thread says

Nintendo 64 Vs. PlayStation: Which console was more innovative?​

 
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Poop!

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I forgot the PS1 didn't had analog sticks.

Yeah, n64 was more innovative.
(But the PS1 was more successful.)

The first set of controllers for PS1 didn't have analog or rumble
The second set of controllers for PS1 had analog but no rumble
The third set of controllers for PS1 had analog and rumble.
 
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Romulus

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The ps1 was the first console I felt wasn't a kids toy. Others like sega tried, but failed in effectively communicating the message.
 

rubenburgt

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The first set of controllers for PS1 didn't have analog or rumble
The second set of controllers for PS1 had analog but no rumble
The third set of controllers for PS1 had analog and rumble.
I started with the second set.

What I always found funny is that the PS1 controller looks so similar to the SNES controller.


That's not really innovative, is it?

Meanwhile had the n64 one of the weirdest looking controller in history.

But it had a analog stick and a port for peripherals since day 1.
 
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emmerrei

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The PS1 Hardware was put togheter with much more criteria and less bottlenecks. For how much more powerful the N64 was, almost all the games were blurry and full of fog. The framerate of the majority of the games was abysmal, and the slow ram and low space on the cartridge didn't helped, contributing in ultra low res textures and everything. The PlayStation on the other hand, is also the first console of the same generation to join in my home. Because we waited for the N64, and bough it at launch, to just buy a PS1 almost 1 year later when we've seen that maybe Nintendo wasn't anymore the same of the SNES.
 
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Well, PS1 helped usher in a new licensing & distribution model more beneficial for third-parties, but the N64 made analog controls a mainstream standard and also pushed 4-player local multiplayer.

So if you separate the console from the games, just speaking of the consoles themselves, the N64 was more innovative. But in terms of the software library that would eventually come about, especially in terms of game originality (not necessarily if the game revolutionized huge parts of the industry), then IMO the PS1 takes that easily.

Like right now I'm playing Moon RPG Remix (yes, the abandoned translation. Pretty much fully translated for the most part tho); you won't really find anything with that type of originality on the N64. PS1 is also where genres like survival-horror and JRPGs saw their biggest innovations in.

So for strictly the hardware itself, it's N64. For the games, it's PS1.

Err, I think you got it wrong. Its quite the opposite, playstation haves way more games, but the amount of good ones it's actually lower than the N64's.

No it's not; N64 definitely has more of the absolute industry-defining standouts (Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time, primarily; also arguably Smash Bros. and Mario Kart 64), but there's no way in hell it has more "good" games than the PS1 or even the Saturn, statistically speaking.

Both of those other systems have so many more games that, going by statistical averages, they're bound to have more games of quality on them than the N64. It's like how the MegaDrive may have some great JRPGs, but the SFC simply has a lot more of them due to having so many more in general, so it's bound to have more good JRPGs than MegaDrive.

You could tally up game count averages for any given score bracket and perhaps outside of the very top of those score brackets, PS1 (and to a lesser extent, Saturn) are going to outdo the N64 in terms of number of games in those brackets. In some cases, vastly so.
 
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Woodchipper

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From a hardware perspective, Nintendo made analog sticks, triggers and rumble mainstream. We're still using those nowadays. This is a win for the N64.

But I think PlayStation really made games mainstream and was able to kill the idea they were for kids.

Overall, I would say they were both important in shaping today's gaming landscape, though I'd give PS the edge considering how many series still alive today were born there
Spot on.
 

IFireflyl

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Shoulder buttons were a SNES controller innovation though. The PS1 just added more.

The Ζ-trigger was exactly that, a trigger. It worked like a trigger in every FPS game and if you used the correct control scheme, it felt like holding a gun. I thought that was quite an improvement for these types of games.

Also, the trident design allowed for FPS games to be played like a keyboard/mouse. Analog for aiming and D-pad or C-buttons for walking/strafe. All FPS games were compatible with this scheme. It's the ONLY single analog controller that allows that.

Oh, so you're talking about the actual trigger shape. I'll give you that. But the trident design is absolutely awful. It doesn't matter if it worked with one genre. It was a terrible controller that I still hate to this day.

Beyond that, the rest of my point still holds true. The Playstation controller was, in my opinion, the true innovator as all non-specialized controllers (steering wheels, arcade gamepads, joy cons, et cetera) emulate the Playstation controller. We'll give N64 a win for the trigger-shape, but Playstation and Xbox both improved upon that.

Also, the original Dual Analogue Controller for Playstation was released on April 25th, 1997 for Japanese PlayStations. That had the rumble feature built it. They didn't release this to the U.S. until 1997, but that was still two days prior to the N64's Rumble Pak that was released on April 27th, 1997. That means N64 doesn't get credit for the rumble feature.

I'm not saying the N64 wasn't innovative in any way. But some of the things you mentioned were done by others prior to N64's implementation.
 

NeoIkaruGAF

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The PS1 certainly got popular with non gamers but for gamers at the time CDs weren't a big deal.
They kinda were, albeit not in the technical sense. The PS1 using an easily piratable memory support was very important for its success in some countries where games were a luxury. Even if PS1 games used to cost, on average, 2/3rds of a SNES/N64 cartridge game, the console would never be so successful globally without piracy.

I see the thread has pretty much degenerated into retro console wars, heh. Not that I didn’t expect it.
I don’t see how an argument can be made about the N64 winning in software. While N64 had about a dozen groundbreaking games, PS1 wins in quantity, variety, and overall quality any day of the week. There’s no Mario 64, Banjo or Zelda equivalent on the PS1, true, but there’s no N64 RPG that comes within a mile of the PS1’s best, nothing like Metal Gear Solid... the list could go on. The PS1 had all the genres covered, it had something for everyone. The N64 was a hardcore gamer’s console. Such a far cry from the NES and the SNES.
 

NonPhixion

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I dunno. Final Fantasy VII on 30+ Nintendo cartridges could of benefitted from SSD-like load times. Shame that it was limited to a 3-disc game on the PS.
 
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Dream-Knife

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Man. I sure would like to see these lists written out for the purposes of comparison...

I had both and loved both at the time, and still love them for what they are, but I have real trouble believing anyone -- unless we are talking a Nintendo superfan -- could say this with a straight face.
I'll write out a list for you later.

I'm not a Nintendo superman, I'm a 90s Nintendo fanboy. They lost me during the GC.
 

KingDankKush

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The N64 did release almost 2 years after the PS1. The 65MB cartridge limitation really held it back. And the expandable RAM slot wasn't available until 1998, another two years after the console release.
 

dave_d

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apple 2 controller? atari 5200 controller?, maybe you are too young




not being "aware" of something, doesn't men it doesn't exist, you can simply use google or a similar search engine to find out

mario 64 was an innovative game not an "innovative console" and wasn't necessarily included in the console, the question is about consoles
Vectrex too. Don't forget the Vectrex. I could also point out the N64 implementation of proportional controls isn't analog, it's digital. You know if you want to put more fuel on the fire.
 
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