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Nier´s case ... The virtue of ignorance (Gaming review)

Heimdall_Xtreme

Jim Ryan Fanclub's #1 Member
When Nier arrived on the Xbox 360 and ps3 consoles, we were enjoy it as one of the best RPGs of the generation (2010).



The virtue of ignorance as always falls on the video game analysts, who belittled it in their time, giving low scores and saying the bad things about the video game, causing Cavia to disappear.



I share that I bought the game because the cover and the summary of the game caught my attention, I played the intro and it was strange that I loved it, plus the ost and the battles, I do not regret for a moment in getting it almost a few months later of its launch

Now as people appreciate it (including myself) we let believe in these analyst chimpanzees like IGN or Meristation for example.

look the example






Now it turns out that as the game became popular after Nier automata, they already appreciate Nier replicant more when they had previously destroyed it.



Isn't it ignorance and also hypocrisy or a perfect example that we should never read video game reviews anymore?
 
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Mister Wolf

Member
The combat is better now. Yoko Taro is a director who does action games but doesn't know how to do good combat dating back to Drakengard. Hooking up with Platinum is the best thing that ever happened to him because they know combat but don't know how to do a good story. Two incomplete pieces make for a better whole. Yes I know Replicant wasn't technically done by Platinum but they oversaw the project.


 
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01011001

Member
as someone who really loves NieR Gestalt and Replicant... the game is a 7/10 AT BEST... the original version maybe even a 6/10

just because you like a game doesn't mean it deserves super high review scores or praise from everyone.
the game, especially the original, had really rudimentary combat, really bad graphics and most sidequests are simple and super drawn out fetch quests.

I love it because of the atmosphere, the characters and the soundtrack, but the core thing that makes videogames to the medium they are, the gameplay, gamedesign and controls were sub par at best.

the remaster has way better combat and controls, and it runs at 60fps while looking like a 360 game now instead of looking like a PS2 game like the original version. that would justify a better review score

but who the fuck even cares for these anymore? are game reviewers hypocrites? of course they are... are they usually incompetent? YES... and that's why everyone should ignore anything they have to say. maybe look for some independent critics that you know do good analysis and stick with them. fuck the mainstream media and fuck review score aggregation sites
 
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Heimdall_Xtreme

Jim Ryan Fanclub's #1 Member
No one is forcing you to read reviews.
barack obama shrug GIF
Nobody, and I really don't need to read them because I even humiliated the director of Meristation for his score of Cyberpunk 2077, the problem is that the people who read his reviews, believe in his words and that damage companies a lot
 
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Heimdall_Xtreme

Jim Ryan Fanclub's #1 Member
I can only say, poor Cavia ... destroyed by the ignorant, what would be theirs if Nier had had justice at the time as he deserved
 

Graciaus

Member
I played for an hour when it was first released and thought it was awful. I've played for 13 now on the remake and still don't think it's good yet.

The difference is a read the story years ago so I know that's great.
 

Punished Miku

Gold Member
The combat is better now. Yoko Taro is a director who does action games but doesn't know how to do good combat dating back to Drakengard. Hooking up with Platinum is the best thing that ever happened to him because they know combat but don't know how to do a good story. Two incomplete pieces make for a better whole. Yes I know Replicant wasn't technically done by Platinum but they oversaw the project.


Wow. I completely forgot you can't even move and charge dark hand at the same time. Its much more improved than I remembered. I actually liked the combat at the time a lot.

Game runs 10x better on PS3 than Drakengard 3 lol. That game broke me.
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
To me people should less focus on "scores" and more what reviewer is saying, maybe they issue reviewer having with the game might be none issue for you or what they like about the game you personally might not like.

Score alone won't tell you anything about the actual game.
 
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Bridges

Member
It is crucial to realize that for the most part, the people that reviewed Nier v1.22 aren't the same people that reviewed the original. You can't expect different people to have the same opinion, even if they work for the same outlet.

The Velvet Underground was not a popular rock group back in their day, but now they're held in the same regard as the other greats of their time. Similarly, it stands to reason that not every great game will get its due, at least not at first.

Instead of being upset, you should instead be happy that more people recognize how good the series is now, and that there's a really good chance that we'll see it continue.
 

bender

Candy Corn Aficionado
Nier's main character in the North American release was atrocious the the combat was wonky. I'm glad both of those issues were remedied in the remake.
 

kingpotato

Ask me about my Stream Deck
Heimdall_Xtreme Heimdall_Xtreme weren't you the one who said Returnal is a 4/10 because you didn't like the character design?

I'm just saying it seems like you enjoy passing your own ignorant judgment, but get annoyed when others do it for something you like.
 

Heimdall_Xtreme

Jim Ryan Fanclub's #1 Member
Heimdall_Xtreme Heimdall_Xtreme weren't you the one who said Returnal is a 4/10 because you didn't like the character design?

I'm just saying it seems like you enjoy passing your own ignorant judgment, but get annoyed when others do it for something you like.
I say that the game is 6-7. Im gonna sleep... Search my points and you will know why im put this score
 

kingpotato

Ask me about my Stream Deck
I say that the game is 6-7. Im gonna sleep... Search my points and you will know why im put this score
Yup, you're right, I was mistaken. Sorry about that. You just 👍 a post that said "4/10 ugly character" which to me said you agree with that statement. At any rate it sounds like the improvements are nice and I watched a video comparison that shows a nice graphical update as well.

I think most people are capable of critical thinking and realize a review is a paid opinion and not a statement of fact.
 

j0hnnix

Member
Hypocrisy, Ignorance, paid shills.. call it whatever. Large platform reviewers are full of it. I don't even care to listen to large audience twitch streamers "opinions" of games.

To you op. Post is on the the money.

Great Gatsby Movie GIF by Sony
 
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Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
IGN you quote was't even that harsh, they awarded it a 7/10 saying it's built on solid ideas but falls short in the execution and awarded the remake 8/10 to boot.

Seems like many of the complaints were graphics and controls/gameplay, both seem quite a bit different in the remake that they like so where's the hypocricy?

Hypocrisy in the fact that analysts turned their backs on the game ... but it turns out they discover it is a hidden gem and praise it after 10 years.

That and thanks to their silly analyzes, they destroy companies like CAVIA
This doesn't address anything in my post, are you high or what? Read the above and actually respond, don't just pretend with nonsense you illogical hypocrite.
 
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Heimdall_Xtreme

Jim Ryan Fanclub's #1 Member
IGN you quote was't even that harsh, they awarded it a 7/10 saying it's built on solid ideas but falls short in the execution and awarded the remake 8/10 to boot.

Seems like many of the complaints were graphics and controls/gameplay, both seem quite a bit different in the remake that they like so where's the hypocricy?
Hypocrisy in the fact that analysts turned their backs on the game ... but it turns out they discover it is a hidden gem and praise it after 10 years.

That and thanks to their silly analyzes, they destroy companies like CAVIA
 

jaysius

Member
This is one of the weirdest "I don't like what ONE reviewer said and I'm not happy with it!" huffing and puffing and stomping feet take I've seen in a while.

angry hate GIF
Larry David Crying GIF by Curb Your Enthusiasm


You can't really damage this company by posting a review, they clearly don't give a fuck how obtuse their content is or how stale and repetitive their gameplay is.

I think you're upset because Neir is such a deep masterpiece work of art [insert hyperbole here]

Reaction GIF




It's ok that people don't see things the same way you do.


Now as people appreciate it (including myself) we let believe in these analyst chimpanzees like IGN or Meristation for example.
Your main argument is even full of ad hominem(the weakest of logical fallacies) by directly insulting the reviewer when he didn't do anything directly to hurt you.
 
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CamHostage

Member

Raven117

Member
I mean, as Emerson wrote "to be great is to be misunderstood."

Back when Neir released, quite frankly, we werent ready. It was ahead of its time. And it took real thought of what was going on in Neir to appreciate it.

Its both brilliant in some aspects (and not so great in others).

That is Neir, that is life.
 

Heimdall_Xtreme

Jim Ryan Fanclub's #1 Member
This is one of the weirdest "I don't like what ONE reviewer said and I'm not happy with it!" huffing and puffing and stomping feet take I've seen in a while.

angry hate GIF
Larry David Crying GIF by Curb Your Enthusiasm


You can't really damage this company by posting a review, they clearly don't give a fuck how obtuse their content is or how stale and repetitive their gameplay is.

I think you're upset because Neir is such a deep masterpiece work of art [insert hyperbole here]

Reaction GIF




It's ok that people don't see things the same way you do.



Your main argument is even full of ad hominem(the weakest of logical fallacies) by directly insulting the reviewer when he didn't do anything directly to hurt you.
In fact I am a hunter of video game analysts, I like to destroy them with arguments, it is my hobby.

But for the masterpieces, as you say ... Just Gravity rush.

I had to mention it in the topic at some point xD
 

jaysius

Member
In fact I am a hunter of video game analysts, I like to destroy them with arguments, it is my hobby.

But for the masterpieces, as you say ... Just Gravity rush.

I had to mention it in the topic at some point xD

When your arguments are pathetically weak and full of ad hominem and whiny baby nonsense, you're only kidding yourself and living in a very silly world if you think your original post "DESTROYED" anyone.

This has to be your troll account, or you're trolling me now, either way I'm still amused.

You're too much, I'm genuinely laughing here.

Thank you for that.
 
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When Nier arrived on the Xbox 360 and ps3 consoles, we were enjoy it as one of the best RPGs of the generation (2010).



The virtue of ignorance as always falls on the video game analysts, who belittled it in their time, giving low scores and saying the bad things about the video game, causing Cavia to disappear.



I share that I bought the game because the cover and the summary of the game caught my attention, I played the intro and it was strange that I loved it, plus the ost and the battles, I do not regret for a moment in getting it almost a few months later of its launch

Now as people appreciate it (including myself) we let believe in these analyst chimpanzees like IGN or Meristation for example.

look the example






Now it turns out that as the game became popular after Nier automata, they already appreciate Nier replicant more when they had previously destroyed it.



Isn't it ignorance and also hypocrisy or a perfect example that we should never read video game reviews anymore?
I don't know, I see you linked IGN's review of the original Nier and Ryan Clements seems very fair in that review... I played and beat the game back then when it came out (PS3), and played through it once, 24 hours if I recall correctly, I did like 10 of those nonsensical chores (sidequests) and at the end of the day I think it was no more than a 6.5/10 in my book. Some parts of the game were brilliant, but overall it was an inconsistent experience, a flawed game, a diamond in the very rough perhaps. By all means the IGN review was more or less on point and even gracious with the 7/10 imo.
 
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SkylineRKR

Member
I bought Nier on release in 2010. Because I had nothing to play I think, it was a Square Enix game and I think I saw some clips with pretty good VA.

Nier looked like a straight PS2 game to me. I thought the prologue was awful. Very mundane combat and bad visuals. Then I got further and liked it a bit more but the fetch quests were dumb. However, some level design such as the first dungeon, the Aerie etc I thought was rather unique. The Junk heap with some top down shooting segments and the Zelda ish boss stood out. Then I started to actually like it. And the banter between Weiss and Kaine cracked me up. The VA in general was way too good for what this game presented to me, as was the OST. I wrote an impression of Nier on a forum, saying its hard to recommend but has a top tier OST, great dialogue and actually borrows mechanics from completely other genres. Kind of predicted it would be a cult classic.

And I think lots of outlets did so too back then. I remember reading stuff about its story beats, music, VA that was highly positive. Its just the tech and gameplay that was criticized and rightfully so, it wasn't good.

But remember the era, 2010, this was full on bloom and piss filter PS360 generation and dudebro gaming. I was there, and I didn't like it even though I did ofcourse play the likes of CoD. Everything had to be co-op and westernized. Inafune sold his soul as well, Capcom games became incredibly stale after a great start with Dead Rising 1, DMC4 and even Lost Planet which were JP games at heart. Those games also sold well, yet they westernized the shit out of their IP afterwards. FFXIII treated gamers like full on retards, here's your 20 hour handholding because you only know dudebro games. But case in point, JP games weren't popular at the time. Most outlets ignored them, gamers didn't really buy them, probably because you would be a weeb. JP games have become in demand again since the PS4. Sega localized all Yakuza's, Automata outsells trash like Andromeda. People finally see that western games are very samey in their approach, take the token Ubisoft open world game, the typical suicide mission BioWare sequel or the 25th Gears of War sequel w/e. I guess we got sick of that shit. Not to mention a lot of them are bug ridden. The first Nier came out in that old era in the wake of FFXIII, and looked like a PS2 game. It was sent to die.
 

SSfox

Lies about why mods reply ban and warn me.
It didn't even surprise me nor give it attention, IGN gave God Hand a score of 3/10 so..

The only reviewer that matters is yourself, sometimes there are good reviews out here, and you can look at people opinion on that said game, usually if not always are more valuable than journalist reviews.
 
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A.Romero

Member
Reviewers have taste, just as any person would. We are influenced by trends and context. It happens to pretty much everyone and regarding basically every opinion that a person might have. Also, opinions change over time.

I used to review games for sites a long time ago and I'd find it very crazy when people got mad because the score a game got wasn't aligned to their own view. I mean, a review is an opinion, by definition. If you are only interested in hearing other people's opinion when is the same as yours then you are setting yourself up for disappointment or want to live in a bubble.

Personally I don't read reviews or watch videos. I rather spend some time reading people's opinions here in GAF, Twitter or Steam reviews. I try to use my own criteria to chose what I play and what I don't. I'm old enough to know what I like and what I don't so...

For example, I like Spiderman since Spiderman 2. When Spiderman 3 came out for PS3 I got it despite knowing critics said it wasn't that good. It wasn't as enjoyable as 2 but still got to swing around a city and punch enemies playing as Spidey. When Insomniac's game came out I couldn't care less for the reviews. It was a new Spiderman game done by a studio that had made other games that I like. Even if media gave it a 6, I would have still purchased it because I know what I like.
 

Punished Miku

Gold Member

Heimdall_Xtreme

Jim Ryan Fanclub's #1 Member
When your arguments are pathetically weak and full of ad hominem and whiny baby nonsense, you're only kidding yourself and living in a very silly world if you think your original post "DESTROYED" anyone.

This has to be your troll account, or you're trolling me now, either way I'm still amused.

You're too much, I'm genuinely laughing here.

Thank you for that.

In fact, if you give arguments to a magazine in a solid way, they have no word to defend themselves
 
To be fair, original Nier was pretty badly designed and i agree it look like shit compare to like FFXIII. Also they put wrong marker location for Shaman Fish I believe
 
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cireza

Member
The professional press has no opinion. They follow the opinion of the players. Demon's Souls PS3 had poor previews and reviews (back when it was only for Asia/Japan), and suddenly it became an excellent game and created a genre. Their reasoning is exclusively based on what will bring the most clicks.

They will put 80 or 90+ to whatever game follow the recipe of the triple AAA game, pushed by publishers throwing advertisements on their website, and sending the money in one way or another. And when something becomes popular, they will say good things about it. Simply trying the give the readers what they want to read.
 
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CamHostage

Member
The professional press has no opinion. They follow the opinion of the players. Demon's Souls PS3 had poor previews and reviews (back when it was only for Asia/Japan), and suddenly it became an excellent game and created a genre. Their reasoning is exclusively based on what will bring the most clicks.
Hmm. I was curious about this, since I definitely remember this game flying under the radar and not getting picked up by Sony and looking interesting in import coverage but being a longshot for international release given FromSoft's shaky history, so I looked up a couple reviews...


Not exactly "poor reviews" from the mainstream press for the international release. (Let's throw in an Edge Demon's Souls PS3 review, to get outside of America while we're at it.)

Maybe, though, as you say, the timeline matters. Those US reviews posted in October, the Japanese version debuted in February of that same year. Did the conversation really changed in the 8 months between the Japanese release and the International version?

Gamespot and IGN both played it at TGS in 2008, and this is how they previewed it then...


I wouldn't say those are describing the game as "poor". The writers couldn't tell how much more there was to it than just 5 minutes of play and some bulletpoints about the play details in the fact sheet, but they seemed to think it was fine. And those Asia/Japanese reviews?


9, 7, 7, 6 from famitsu
95, 85, 85, and 85 from dengeki

Mixed scores, but relatively high. So, are you sure about your theory?

...BTW, I would have totally understood it myself if reviewers had gotten Demon's Souls wrong, myself. It's one of those games that doesn't just click, you have to commit to the pain of it in order to find the pleasure, and it's not polished enough to tell you it's got promise if you persevere. It's a little like a Verhoeven movie to me, that it'd make total sense for people to write off Starship Troopers as just a dumb blockbuster attempt with gobs of CG and plastic-faced 90210 actors and a weird fetishization of nazism. It takes a while to understand that all of that is true, and yet understanding the why will lead to finding the art.
 
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Claus Grimhildyr

Vincit qui se vincit
You can easily tell who should never be listened to in this thread. Why the hell would anyone defend these scum bag “journalists”?
 

cireza

Member
Did the conversation really changed in the 8 months between the Japanese release and the International version?
Yes. The first previews back in TGS 2008 weren't that great.

I remember reading French previews of the Japanese version (only a handful, most did not even cover the game) saying that it played poorly and was too difficult. The game took a lot of time before it got picked by Atlus, and fans had already been very active supporting the game (playing the Asian version). It was my case, I was one of the first buyers of the game as I played this Asian version, and made an OP on the French website I usually go to. It took time, but people eventually realized the gem it was.
 
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