• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

|OT| Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Speculation/Analysis/Leaks Thread

sircaw

has bigger MS points balance than reaction score.
Jul 3, 2019
4,635
23,461
760
A local pond.
Interesting chinwag with Digital Foundry at PAX, especially near the ending.

Richard says on paper the XSX is clearly the more powerful but Microsoft have a new software development kit (GDK) which encompasses single code base for Xbox One, Xbox Series X|S and PC. Some developers love it, some don't. I take that as being that the full potential of XSX may sometimes never be reached as there may not be opportunities to specifically tune the code for a single device now. I have no idea.

On the other hand, developers are truly loving the PS5. It's much the same tools as the PS4 but everything just scaled up.

38'34" onwards

Yer i don't think anyone has ever disputed that the xbox will be more powerful.

But like all things power means nothing without talent. We have all seen the last of us 2, god of war and ghost of Tsushima.

and more recently we have seen Demon souls, if that's the less powerful machine, than haha its fucking fine with me.

I know arse hats like Dealer and Eastwood love to bring out the 12 tflop number and its understandable, they don't have much to hold onto besides that.

People should be concentrating on games, not numbers,

Games matter, and that's it, buy your console on what you deem is the best for you to play on.
the rest is bullshit
 

Dave_at_Home

Member
Jun 19, 2020
617
1,846
365
If it's a new common development kid it will definitely be more abstract and not as low-level as PS5's SDK.
I don't think this will make too big of a difference, maybe 3% or something. Definitely not great for Series X enthusiasts.
I know the Series X has more compute units, but what's the real world difference gonna be? 18%? What's that gonna equate to in terms of increased resolution or effects? Someone remind me again the real world difference between PS4 and Xbox One.
 

kyliethicc

Member
Mar 14, 2020
2,349
12,142
460
Interesting chinwag with Digital Foundry at PAX, especially near the ending.

Richard says on paper the XSX is clearly the more powerful but Microsoft have a new software development kit (GDK) which encompasses single code base for Xbox One, Xbox Series X|S and PC. Some developers love it, some don't. I take that as being that the full potential of XSX may sometimes never be reached as there may not be opportunities to specifically tune the code for a single device now. I have no idea.

On the other hand, developers are truly loving the PS5. It's much the same tools as the PS4 but everything just scaled up.

38'34" onwards

Richard seems concerned about the Sbox & GDK. Also good to hear that every developer loves the PS5.
 
Last edited:

T-Cake

Member
May 28, 2019
1,304
1,591
440
see how it runs DF you idiots there is more to power than TF.
To be fair, that is what he is saying. Raw specs mean nothing and at the end of the day it will all be about the software. Which is why there is little Xbox v PS comparison on the site at the moment. They will be waiting for the software (games) to tell the story.
 

Lethal01

Report me for trolling MS/Xbox threads > 07/02
Jun 15, 2019
1,286
2,225
540
FPS above all else.

If you know, you know. If you don't, you don't.
People been losing thier shit over DS, take a look at
Final Fantasy XVI - Awakening

This is actually hints that it's the same game shown years back as "Project Awakening":

























































Source: PlayStation 4K trailer, downloaded then made screenshots via VLC media player.
Thanks for posting, it does indeed look far worse than Demons Souls, Really hoping they upgrade it a lot before launch.
Ray traced shadows would help a lot I think.
 
Jun 13, 2020
1,760
3,370
400


I think they'll listen to the concerns and if they had any plans of charging extra, they'll bite and go for free.
:messenger_tears_of_joy: soooo
NOT what you answered me 5 minutes before, right?

Spiderman PS4 will indeed upgrade for free. You pay $70 if you haven't already bought the game on PS4, and that includes the DLC's. So get the $50 version.
As I was saying, real dick move and "fuck you customer" from sony

Lets hope that all the heat insomiac is getting right now on twitter will work like you think,
but that still doesn't change their shitty intentions
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bo_Hazem

kyliethicc

Member
Mar 14, 2020
2,349
12,142
460
I know the Series X has more compute units, but what's the real world difference gonna be? 18%? What's that gonna equate to in terms of increased resolution or effects? Someone remind me again the real world difference between PS4 and Xbox One.
PS4 Pro and Xbox One X both ran Doom Eternal at 60 FPS. Same graphical settings, both used dynamic resolution.
Doom Eternal on PS4 Pro averaged resolution ~ 1440p. Doom Eternal on Xbox One X averaged resolution ~ 1800p.

That was the only difference. Big AAA multi-plat with solid Id Tech. Same game, bit higher avg res on the much more powerful box. Not much difference.

And remember, the One X had lots of advantages over PS4 Pro. The Pro had no advantages. XSX has fewer advantages over PS5 than One X did.

So I doubt the AAA multiplatform games will run that differently on either box. Bit higher res on some games on Xbox, PS5 loads faster, etc. Less of a one sided gap than Xbox One X vs PS4 Pro was. PS5 will "win" a few comparisons, some will be same on both, etc.
 

Bo_Hazem

Gold Dealer
Feb 10, 2020
8,664
46,127
870
34
Salalah, Oman
:messenger_tears_of_joy: soooo
NOT what you answered me 5 minutes before, right?


As I was saying, real dick move and "fuck you customer" from sony

Lets hope that all the heat insomiac is getting right now on twitter will work like you think,
but that still doesn't change their shitty intentions
Well, both companies need such heat, none are vocal about the removal of the $60 GOLD for example and making it around $120 by offering only $10/mo. People should get vocal, always, as even if I had Sony as my company I'll always aim for extra profit.
 
Last edited:

Bladed Thesis

Member
Jun 7, 2019
1,698
4,279
445
why would it matter? its internal. You install it and never touch it again. Its not like the Xbox.
Think about the logistics of it.

You don't want the back to be the only way you can swap out ssds, especially with the size of this thing. You're asking for people to drop this or something.

It has to be somewhere more accessible imo
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bo_Hazem

kyliethicc

Member
Mar 14, 2020
2,349
12,142
460
Hmm, maybe.. has there ever been a console with a kensington lock? Seems weird, it's a stationary device after all.
yes both new xboxes have them.


Hmm, maybe.. has there ever been a console with a kensington lock? Seems weird, it's a stationary device after all.

edit:



I meant an SSD expansion slot, sorry.
Its probably not that hole. Its an internal bay inside. I don't see how that hole would be related.
 

kyliethicc

Member
Mar 14, 2020
2,349
12,142
460
Think about the logistics of it.

You don't want the back to be the only way you can swap out ssds, especially with the size of this thing. You're asking for people to drop this or something.

It has to be somewhere more accessible imo
you'd never swap out SSDs. Its like installing a hard drive inside you PS4. You dont take it out. Its a 1 time thing.

If people can't take the console, put it on a table, install the drive, then put it back.... then they should not be buying the console. Thats super fucking basic.

I was 12 and I figured out how take my big fat heavy PS3 and open up the little side plate, pull out the hard drive caddy, unscrew it, install a new internal 2.5" hard drive, screw the caddy back together, reinstall it into the PS3, screw that in place, and cover it back up. Its not that hard to install a drive. I was a child. It was easy.

This is simple stuff.
 
Last edited:

Shpeshal Ed

aka Collingwood
Mar 16, 2007
15,495
233
1,350
why would it matter? its internal. You install it and never touch it again. Its not like the Xbox.
My assumption was that a “slot” is for something external to go in.

I was under the impression Sony were taking a path that blends what they’ve always done with what Microsoft has done.

Change the internal drive and allow external USB for storage of PS5 games and running of PS4 games
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Bladed Thesis

Bladed Thesis

Member
Jun 7, 2019
1,698
4,279
445
you'd never swap out SSDs. Its like installing a hard drive inside you PS4. You dont take it out. Its a 1 time thing.

If people can't take the console, put it on a table, install the drive, then put it back.... then they should not be buying the console. Thats super fucking basic.
They said expandable storage would be a thing.

I think we're talking about different things.
 

kyliethicc

Member
Mar 14, 2020
2,349
12,142
460
My assumption was that a “slot” is for something external to go in.

I was under the impression Sony were taking a path that blends what they’ve always done with what Microsoft has done.

Change the internal drive and allow external USB for storage of PS5 games and running of PS4 games
They said expandable storage would be a thing.

I think we're talking about different things.
No no, it is an expansion bay INSIDE THE PS5. Listen to what Cerny said.

You install the internal M.2 drive and it is not designed to be quickly swapped out like the Xbox cards are.

The Xbox uses external cards. Sony is using an internal PC M.2 NVMe SSD. Very different.

Think like the PS3 was but for adding a M.2 drive.



 
Last edited:
Jun 13, 2020
1,760
3,370
400
Well, both companies need such heat, non are vocal about the removal of the $60 GOLD for example and making it around $120 by offering only $10/mo. People should get vocal, always, as even if I had Sony as my company I'll always aim for extra profit.
don't mix and match. we don't really know what ms will do with gold yet, and everyone that needs to resub for a year can very easily buy a prepaid 12month card.

The thing here is, sony dictates that IF I want to play the enhanced version of spiderman that I already have bought,
I need to pay them 80euros (=$95)
and for me, a paying customer for both microsoft and sony, this sure gets me very pissed.

Even sony sweetalker dark1x is openly talking about it, but still in his kissing-up to sony way:

I really hope someone puts some sense into sony, and do it soon!
 
Last edited:

Bladed Thesis

Member
Jun 7, 2019
1,698
4,279
445
No no no, it is an expansion bay INSIDE THE PS5. Listen to what Cerny said.

You install the internal M.2 drive and it is not designed to be quickly swapped out like the Xbox cards are.

The Xbox uses external cards. Sony is using an internal PC M.2 NVMe SSD. Very different.
Yikes.
 

Shpeshal Ed

aka Collingwood
Mar 16, 2007
15,495
233
1,350
No no no, it is an expansion bay INSIDE THE PS5. Listen to what Cerny said.

You install the internal M.2 drive and it is not designed to be quickly swapped out like the Xbox cards are.

The Xbox uses external cards. Sony is using an internal PC M.2 NVMe SSD. Very different.

Think like the PS3 was but for adding a M.2 drive.


I know they’re using internal.

I’m saying when someone refers to a slot, I usually take that as external and I know Sony isn’t using external. That’s what I was getting at.

Those pics just look like smaller vents to me. The bay that Sony normally has on their consoles is usually on the back. While it may not be immediately obvious where it would be on the back, doesn’t mean it’s not necessarily there.

Sure we’ll find out soon
 
  • Like
Reactions: kyliethicc

Bladed Thesis

Member
Jun 7, 2019
1,698
4,279
445
I dont see any issue with that. Its using a stock internal PC drive. It has to be internal.
Not my preference at all for additional storage. I have like 8TB of external storage on my PS4 currently. If I've got one slot, one chance and its not readily accessible, who can afford a SSD at the quality of the PS5 in any size increment where its good enough?

Just my thoughts.
 
Dec 10, 2018
1,764
4,050
625
Wait. You think they’d put an expansion slot in a spot you can only access with the console in one specific way?

...k
how many times are you going to unplug it on your Series X? Every second? Every minute? Once a day? If so ... WHY??!? Do you know what they´re used for? Those "external nvmes" are not memory cards, you install games on it ... if you unplug it all the time, no games to be had, what´s the point then of having an external nvme ssd with 1 to 4tb if you´re constantly removing it?!

But you two had to nitpick. I guess, you´re going to turn the XSX around everytime you unplug the nvme expansion card.


 
  • Like
  • LOL
Reactions: Mr Moose and xacto

kyliethicc

Member
Mar 14, 2020
2,349
12,142
460
I know they’re using internal.

I’m saying when someone refers to a slot, I usually take that as external and I know Sony isn’t using external. That’s what I was getting at.

Those pics just look like smaller vents to me. The bay that Sony normally has on their consoles is usually on the back. While it may not be immediately obvious where it would be on the back, doesn’t mean it’s not necessarily there.

Sure we’ll find out soon
idk who called it a slot. If I did, my mistake. Cerny said its a bay inside. Xbox has the expansion slot (or port) for its card.

I was wondering if that rectangular area on the side/bottom of the PS5 was a small plastic cover that could be removed to give access to the bay, likely then using a caddy on a rail to install the internal drive, like PS3 and PS4 hard drives are.

Others have said that could just be where a model sticker goes. That makes sense too. Idk.

This is why we need the teardown.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bladed Thesis
Jun 13, 2020
1,760
3,370
400
Not my preference at all for additional storage. I have like 8TB of external storage on my PS4 currently. If I've got one slot, one chance and its not readily accessible, who can afford a SSD at the quality of the PS5 in any size increment where its good enough?

Just my thoughts.
uhmm... probably... you :messenger_beaming:
going from 8TB to whatever is left of the 825GB after OS etc, it is going to feel very very tight
 
  • LOL
Reactions: xacto

Bladed Thesis

Member
Jun 7, 2019
1,698
4,279
445
how many times are you going to unplug it on your Series X? Every second? Every minute? Once a day? If so ... WHY??!? Do you know what they´re used for? Those "external nvmes" are not memory cards, you install games on it ... if you unplug it all the time, no games to be had, what´s the point then of having an external nvme ssd with 1 to 4tb if you´re constantly removing it?!

But you two had to nitpick. I guess, you´re going to turn the XSX around everytime you unplug the nvme expansion card.


It's not a nitpick. Have you seen the size of games recently? And we've got less than 1TB to work with at launch (I've already got mine preordered so don't get me misconstrued).

Have you seen the prices of 1TB for comparable drives? It's definitely a concern, the complication to remove the harddrive. The frequency of removal or adjustment doesn't matter. If I must pay $200 for a 1TB to add to the internal drive, then I'm going to want a few of those. That's pretty simple to understand. And it becomes cost prohibitive. Nevermind the increase in the size of games going forward.

It's not all nitpicking. Brainfart on your own part.
 
  • Like
Reactions: kyliethicc

kyliethicc

Member
Mar 14, 2020
2,349
12,142
460
Not my preference at all for additional storage. I have like 8TB of external storage on my PS4 currently. If I've got one slot, one chance and its not readily accessible, who can afford a SSD at the quality of the PS5 in any size increment where its good enough?

Just my thoughts.
Understand, fair point. I guess one could buy say a 500 GB drive and then replace that one with a larger drive years later. You could technically have multiple, but installing each one over and over again would suck.

Thats the main advantage of the Xbox cards. One could have 2/3 of them and quickly swap them to play various games.

PS5 will not be like that. I think it will be like installing a drive inside a PC or a PS4 etc. Boring, slow, and not intended for fast swapping or multiple drives.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bladed Thesis

Bladed Thesis

Member
Jun 7, 2019
1,698
4,279
445
idk who called it a slot. If I did, my mistake. Cerny said its a bay inside. Xbox has the expansion slot (or port) for its card.

I was wondering if that rectangular area on the side/bottom of the PS5 was a small plastic cover that could be removed to give access to the bay, likely then using a caddy on a rail to install the internal drive, like PS3 and PS4 hard drives are.

Others have said that could just be where a model sticker goes. That makes sense too. Idk.

This is why we need the teardown.
Agree 100%

Need the teardown, need clarification.
 
  • Like
Reactions: kyliethicc

Nickolaidas

Member
Jan 18, 2019
3,380
10,287
570
Not my preference at all for additional storage. I have like 8TB of external storage on my PS4 currently. If I've got one slot, one chance and its not readily accessible, who can afford a SSD at the quality of the PS5 in any size increment where its good enough?

Just my thoughts.
I think we'll end up having multiple external HDDs with our PS4/5 games installed there, and we'll have to swap games with the PS5's internal SSD in order to play them.

If your download speed is less than 50 MB per second, it's worth it.