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|OT| Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Godfavor

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Support 8k screen on the box it's like say in a presentation to have an hardware next generation capable of 4k native at 60 FPS? For real? How dense we can be to say such idiocy?
It is worse actually because customers see the 8k logo on the store selves instead of finding a technical Xbox video.
 
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Zadom

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It is hard to say the differences because the functions and results should be the same.
It just the internal implementation is different from each vendor.

It is the same case for VRS... you can do it own implementation via software... then nVidia added it to hardwarae with it own implementation in API Extensions... then MS added to DirectX with it own implementation using nVidia/AMD hardware, etc.

How these different implementations affects the performance and overall result? Well... it is hard to predict or even test because I believe each implementation works better for determined code path... so an Engine can have better results with MS's implementation while other Engine will be better with nVidia's implementation.

SFS and PRT+ are the same.

Plus the MS hardware features like additional caches and fixed texture filter units found on Series won't be present on PC GPUs.
So on PC SFS will probably be very very similar to PRT+... at least more similar than what you have on Series where you have add hardware to speed up things.

But the point I was trying to explain is that the save from a traditional load the full texture won't exists because PRT is already a thing in most if not all games, APIs, Engines, etc developed.... SFS will be more reliable (less artifacts and waste of memory) and faster (due the specific hardware features on Series).

PS. PRT is a feature already in the API of PS4... I'm sure something similar PRT+ was added for PS5's API.
You explain things very well. I appreciate it.
 

ethomaz

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Xbox One had the feature too. .. I don't know why it would be underutilized but not on PS4.

Maybe they are wrong; but PRT being a feature doesn't mean it was useful due to I/O constraints.
I did a check on Unreal Engine documentation...
I don't know the default value but it will use PRT/Tiles Resources if you set to 1 that variable.

VirtualTextureIf set to 1, textures will use virtual memory so they can be partially resident.
 
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jroc74

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Nice moves! I can do the same with the 8k logo on the front box of PS5. Not a really good argument by your side
Support for 8K - logo on the box, in marketing.

True 4K- this is from MS's own pr, on their site right now.


Dont really wanna get into this but one of these things is not like the other.

 
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IntentionalPun

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I did a check on Unreal Engine documentation...
I don't the default value but it will use PRT/Tiles Resources if you set to 1 that variable.

VirtualTextureIf set to 1, textures will use virtual memory so they can be partially resident.

It's been a thing for a decade; but on a limited shared RAM setup, w/ your 5400 RPM drive as the only other place to store data... it doesn't make sense that PRT could be heavily used. There are articles claiming it wasn't, before MS ever had their presentation.. it's in one of my posts, I'll try to find it.

With a 5400 RPM drive if you are doing any data streaming you are pre-fetching a lot of off-screen data, and aren't going to be able to effectively pull parts of textures w/ things like camera turns or objects coming into view w/o insanely bad pop-in.
 
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Godfavor

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Support 8k screen on the box it's like say in a presentation to have an hardware next generation capable of 4k native at 60 FPS? For real? How dense it can be to say such idiocy?
The idiocity is that nothing on PS5 supports 8k as well. And at least series x has some 4k60 games. Even the HDMI is rated at 32gb/sec on PS5 which is not enough for 8k.

Shall we continue?
 
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Godfavor

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There are 4k 60 FPS games on ps5 too 🤷‍♂️ You can continue. Now tell us why there is the same 8k logo in the series X box.
In the front box so everyone can see? I think it is way more measliding, because people will pass it for 8k gaming.

Point is that both companies will do the best to sell their consoles while avoiding a law action suit.

What my original argument was is that the technical engineer was speaking PR, while what hE did was explaining of how SFS works
 
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In the front box so everyone can see? I think it is way more measliding, because people will pass it for 8k gaming.

Point is that both companies will do the best to sell their consoles while avoiding a law action suit.

What my original argument is that the technical engineer was speaking PR on the sofa, while what he was saying was valid

You know you can just rotate a box right?

90S Spin GIF by GIFt Delivery
 

assurdum

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In the front box so everyone can see? I think it is way more measliding, because people will pass it for 8k gaming.

Point is that both companies will do the best to sell their consoles while avoiding a law action suit.

What my original argument is that the technical engineer was speaking PR on the sofa, while what he was saying was valid
Technical engineer said series S was a 1440p 60 FPS hardware. Now they changed their mind, 1080p is it. How you can still believe to them? Honestly I can't care less of such hardware but it's unbelievable to see so many people to trust to what the MS "engineers" said. It's hard to figure out when it's marketing PR or genuine tech chats.
 
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Riky

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Godfavor

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Technical engineer said series S was a 1440p 60 FPS hardware. Now they changed their mind, 1080p is it. How you can still believe/trust to them? Honestly I can't care less of such hardware but it's unbelievable to see so many people to trust to what the MS "engineers" said.
I don't trust any PR.

At least I have the ability to see what it makes sense and what's not. Unfortunately you dont seem to grasp it.

Too bad that my examples did not get you into the point
 
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assurdum

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assurdum

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I don't trust any PR.

At least I have the ability to see what it makes sense and what's not. Unfortunately you dont seem to grasp it.
Dude you say the 8k on the ps5 box it's to deceive people. Lol. Your ability work just when the brand is not MS it seems.
P.R. you don't give example, you just defend a bullshit PR practice which personally I find dishonest.
 
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IntentionalPun

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Technical engineer said series S was a 1440p 60 FPS hardware. Now they changed their mind, 1080p is it. How you can still believe to them? Honestly I can't care less of such hardware but it's unbelievable to see so many people to trust to what the MS "engineers" said. It's hard to figure out when it's marketing PR or genuine tech chats.
That entire concept is silly.. they aren't enforcing resolution or FPS standards... didn't all they say was that was the design goal?

Why are you so hung up on that and who even said this? lol

All I can find is an Xbox Wire post saying it was "designed w/ 1440p 60FPS in mind."
 
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Garani

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The idiocity is that nothing on PS5 supports 8k as well. And at least series x has some 4k60 games. Even the HDMI is rated at 32gb/sec on PS5 which is not enough for 8k.

Shall we continue?

Star Trek GIF


FUD? Really? Are we re-hashing the same no 4k60 and HDMI "not enough" junk? I mean, we have Spiderman MM running at 4k60 w/ ray tracing and an HDMI port rated 48gb/s. You don't get straight even the basics.
 

Godfavor

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Dude you say the 8k on the ps5 box it's to deceive people. Lol. Your ability work just when the brand is not MS it seems.
My point was to filter what is good PR and what's not. Both companies do it
Star Trek GIF


FUD? Really? Are we re-hashing the same no 4k60 and HDMI "not enough" junk? I mean, we have Spiderman MM running at 4k60 w/ ray tracing and an HDMI port rated 48gb/s. You don't get straight even the basics.
It is limited to 32 gb/sec by the time I am writing this
 
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assurdum

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That entire concept is silly.. they aren't enforcing resolution or FPS standards... didn't all they say was that was the design goal?

Why are you so hung up on that and who even said this? lol

All I can find is an Xbox Wire post saying it was "designed w/ 1440p 60FPS in mind."

I don't follow you. I never said they enforcing anything. I just said they promote series S as 1440p 60 FPS machine then they backpedal to 1080p. If it was thinking to be 1440p why they have changed their PR statement? 🤷‍♂️
Maybe eh maybe promote a machine talking about target resolution is inaccurate and useless? Maybe eh
 
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Godfavor

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Dude you say the 8k on the ps5 box it's to deceive people. Lol. Your ability work just when the brand is not MS it seems.
P.R. you don't give example, you just defend a bullshit PR practice which personally I find dishonest.
I am not defending a bullshit PR on the contrary, MS do it as well. i was replying to you with the same PR argument you started the flame war with me to show you how silly it is.
I hope I made it clear for you
 
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I don't trust any PR.

At least I have the ability to see what it makes sense and what's not. Unfortunately you dont seem to grasp it.

Too bad that my examples did not get you the point

It's been certified to support 8K content.

It's really that simple. Xbox has it on their box too. Get over it.
 
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Loope

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That entire concept is silly.. they aren't enforcing resolution or FPS standards... didn't all they say was that was the design goal?

Why are you so hung up on that and who even said this? lol

All I can find is an Xbox Wire post saying it was "designed w/ 1440p 60FPS in mind."
*nevermind, not worth it. You're wasting your time.
 
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IntentionalPun

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I don't follow you. I never said they enforcing anything. I just said they promote series S as 1440p 60 FPS machine then they backpedal to 1080p. If it was thinking to be 1440p why they have changed their PR statement? 🤷‍♂️
All they said was it was designed w/ 1440p in mind... what backpedaling did they do?

Obviously most games aren't pulling that off or targeting it, but it's was their design target. They don't have control over what devs do, nor do they have any first party games yet lol
 
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assurdum

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All they said was it was designed w/ 1440p in mind... what backpedaling did they do?

Obviously most games aren't pulling that off or targeting it, but it's was their design target. They don't have control over what devs do, nor do they have any first party games yet lol
Did you looked to their promos about series S lately? They changed the 1440p resolution statement to 1080p. Why they did that? How isn't it that backpedaling?
 
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Garani

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No, you don't know how Sony works or worse, you fake ignorance.

Sony's HDMI chipset is not off the shelf, it's rated at 48gb/s for 8k and it can be reprogrammed by firmware, in the same way that Sony was able to push HDR on the day one PS4, but Microsoft couldn't.

It will be activated, like with VRR, but only once the standards are well established.
 
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Godfavor

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I understand you think because Sony has limited the bandwidth to 32 gb/s that they're lying or something

You're wrong
No I have explained that PR of both companies is BS and pointelss. You can filter what PR makes sense what is not.

The 32gb/sec is real by the way, i am sure they will unlock it via a future firmware update to full bandwidth
 
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Godfavor

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No, you don't know how Sony works or worse, you fake ignorance.

Sony's HDMI chipset is not off the shelf, it's rated at 48gb/s for 8k and it can be reprogrammed by firmware, in the same way that Sony was able to push HDR on the day one PS4, but Microsoft couldn't.

It will be activated, like with VRR, but only once the standards are well established.
Yes I know that already thanks. What I wrote was not a lie. Because the 32gb/sec cap is real now
 
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Riky

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Microsoft didn't back pedal at all, the advert that says 1080p was for Forza Horizon 4 on Series S, which runs at 1080p 60fps. It's a port of the X1X performance mode.
There has been one first party game released in Gears Tactics which came out with the Series consoles and is 1440p.
 

Godfavor

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Cap is real but the system still outputs 12bit 4:4:4 no problem. 4k60hdr is not even fully saturating the 32gb/s now
12bit 444 at 4k/120 requires 48gb/sec without Dolby vision.
4k60 HDR 10bit uses 18gb/sec and HDMI 2.0 can also do it.
With 32 gb/sec you are limited to 4k120 8-10bit at 4.2.0 I think
 
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azertydu91

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Rivets ass?


What you said certainly seems really familiar to me. Don't remember who got owned though.
Well long story short, Jstevenson was talking about R&C or Spiderman (He was probably about ray tracing in Spiderman MM and someone doubting about the game having it) and someone questionned him what was his source.The dude and most of Twitter replied that he was working on the game.
Fanboys warring nothing new on twitter.
 
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Well long story short, Jstevenson was talking about R&C or Spiderman (He was probably about ray tracing in Spiderman MM and someone doubting about the game having it) and someone questionned him what was his source.The dude and most of Twitter replied that he was working on the game.
Fanboys warring nothing new on twitter.

I definitely remember that. It was hilarious.
 

Godfavor

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The way that you wrote it it was the typical FUD scenario. You were console warring and you know it.
What FUD? I didn't lie. So the video I quoted from HDTV test is considered FUD as well?

I was replying the same way that some posters were starting to flaming me when I was analyzing SFS.

I am done trying to explain what my original point was.
 
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Nowcry

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I want to see the IO controller at full power. At last we can see games without limitations. I love the new way of using the GPU, linking GDDR with the SSD and the IO controller.


it is simply amazing.

I would say that in the camera shot there is about 7-8 GB of GDDR and they are using about 50% of the IO controller.

What is your opinion?
 
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Bo_Hazem

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Salalah, Oman

you want to see the IO controller at full power. At last we can see games without limitations. I love the new way of using the GPU, linking GDDR with the SSD and the IO controller.

it is simply amazing.

Just imagine if R&C wasn't using traditional LOD's and was as efficient as Nanite! We're starting strong but as Insomniac said we're only scratching the surface of what PS5 will do!
 

onesvenus

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Sure. Getting caught up in a rather pointless detail though.

You still seem super unaware of how Nanite works based on your latest posts to Bo. "That's an easy one Bo: Having them on RAM? What do you think games do when load a level? Fetch the data it needs to render to RAM and then render from there." That's not how engines build around streaming data work.. and absolutely not what the UE5 demo was doing.

It was using only a small portion of the RAM for a cache; there is no "entire level" loaded into memory. There is what is on screen + some cache.

The small cache is possible due to fast I/O. With slower I/O, you'd need a bigger cache.. thus have less memory available for what is on screen.

x = on screen data
o = cache

[xxxxxxxxoo]
[xxxxxoooo]

System with slower I/O has less x's, more o's, to compensate for it.

Here's Epic slide on how little memory is actually used for caching data:

I'm well aware of how Nanite works but thanks for the refresh.

Having a streaming pool of 768MB does not mean all the things you see are in there, I'm sure there are meshes that reside in memory during almost all the demo but we'll see when UE5 is released and more info on Nanite is revealed.

Having said that, Bo's argument, and what I was trying to debunk, was that the Xbox will be able to render 4 or 5 times less polygons than the PS5 due to I/O differences. My point is that rendered polygons don't have a 1:1 mapping to I/O bandwidth so making that claim is trolling. Nothing else.
 
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