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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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MadAnon

Member
None of the sub-10TF cards support Ray-Tracing. So it should be obvious since Ray-Tracing has already been confirmed.
Who says you can't add custom ray tracing cores to RDNA chip? RDNA2 is just improvement of the RDNA arch. Why would you need RDNA2 specifically?
 

bitbydeath

Member
Well i was talking in terms of power, not ray tracing.
Also ray tracing is going to be a real hold back next gen, no matter how many dedicated cores the consoles have. I would rather they left ray tracing for the gen after to be honest, let hardware catch up.

That’s why Ray-Tracing is only built into the high-end cards, it needs the power.
 

Racer!

Member
Richard mentions he heard Sony went witj "smart" SOC.

For me this pretty much confirms PCB leak. 316mm² with 1/4th of cache and 256 bit coupled with fastest RAM available next year.

Tbh I like it better then speculated 350mm² Scarlett one.

Thats about 35mm2 less than what org PS4 launched with. Seems like we are in "gimping territory" on the compute side for another generation then.
 

Stuart360

Gold Member
That’s why Ray-Tracing is only built into the high-end cards, it needs the power.
I dont think it really works like that. Its more 'put ray tracing in the high end cards that cost $500-1000'.
I think that rumour from a while ago about GTX 1080 power level will probably be close to what we get, and you cant expect much more for a $400-500 box.
 

Croatoan

They/Them A-10 Warthog
Shit, I will take 1080p/60 if it means pushing the envelope more. 1080p scales mint on a 4K set, unless you have a cheap junk scaler. But even then, we are not talking 720p on a 1080p set "mud" due to the even integer.
Maybe its my TV (55inch 4k Samsung NU8000) but 1440p looks great with a little AA, and 4k looks great, but I need some serious AA for 1080p to look good. I sit about 5 feet away and the aliasing is horrible on a game like Borderlands 3 (1080p, no AA, performance mode) on a PS4 Pro. That game has the worst jaggies I have seen this gen.

Playing Control on PC at 1080P with 4x SSAA looks a little soft but is not bad. To be perfectly honest I can barely tell the difference between 1440p 2x SSAA and 4k no AA.

I hope PS5 game developers will start to give players options. I would buy a PS5 and play games at PS4 graphics level if it gave me 1080p/1440p and 60+ Fps on all games.
 

R600

Banned
Thats about 35mm2 less than what org PS4 launched with. Seems like we are in "gimping territory" on the compute side for another generation then.
And PS4 is about 150mm² less then PS3.

And PS4Pro is around 30mm² less then PS4 original.

Its not gimping, its just that as manufacturing node go down, chips get more and more expensive per mm². In case of PS3s ~500mm² vs hypoteticsl 316mm², I am sure PS5s would be more expensive as process is getting more expensive itself.
 

bitbydeath

Member
I dont think it really works like that. Its more 'put ray tracing in the high end cards that cost $500-1000'.
I think that rumour from a while ago about GTX 1080 power level will probably be close to what we get, and you cant expect much more for a $400-500 box.

All I’m saying is we have a choice of two cards. The 5800 or 5900, there spec is unknown but it is 100% one of those.
 

MadAnon

Member
It’s a complete architecture overhaul, simply adding a few cores won’t make it RT compliant.
It's not an overhaul lol. There's reason why it's called RDNA2 and will be released less than a year after RDNA. PS4 Pro has Polaris packing Vega features. How is that possible!? They both are GCN based. You know, just likes RDNA2 will be RDNA based. And it was already said in previous wired article that PS5 will use "custom Navi" chip. And AMD in their presentations showed that PS5 will be based on RDNA arch.
 
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bitbydeath i have always liked your enthusiasm, but dont. 9-10tf is the peak we will get, and the consoles wont come close to 2080ti, or even standard 2080 levels.
Good thing you missed some 17Tf - 14Tf madness, it was crazy.
None of the sub-10TF cards support Ray-Tracing. So it should be obvious we’re getting either the 5800 or 5900 since Ray-Tracing has already been confirmed.

Plus all those air vents on the dev kit aren’t there just for the fashion.
You still don't get it don't you, or maybe a M variant of 5800 with RT, just don't expect anything crazy.
 

Stuart360

Gold Member
All I’m saying is we have a choice of two cards. The 5800 or 5900, there spec is unknown but it is 100% one of those.
We dont know for certain. It could be heavily modified, underclocked, use less cores, or even a different gpu and soc made for the consoles.
We should know by now that comparing console tech to PC tech can produce wildly different results. One thing is certain though, 2080, 2080 super, 2080ti power levels are a pipe dream, no matter how much 'secret sauce' these consoles have.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Maybe its my TV (55inch 4k Samsung NU8000) but 1440p looks great with a little AA, and 4k looks great, but I need some serious AA for 1080p to look good. I sit about 5 feet away and the aliasing is horrible on a game like Borderlands 3 (1080p, no AA, performance mode) on a PS4 Pro. That game has the worst jaggies I have seen this gen.

Playing Control on PC at 1080P with 4x SSAA looks a little soft but is not bad. To be perfectly honest I can barely tell the difference between 1440p 2x SSAA and 4k no AA.

I hope PS5 game developers will start to give players options. I would buy a PS5 and play games at PS4 graphics level if it gave me 1080p/1440p and 60+ Fps on all games.

Make sure your sharpness isn’t too high either, keep it dead in the middle, or 0. I notice a lot of TV manufacturers like to have that turned all the way up out of the box.

It obviously will vary depending on the game and what solution they use for AA, but for the most part I don’t run into too many issues.

I also try to keep the 4K gaming TVs at no more or less than 50 inches in size (for smaller pixel density), and sit about 5 to 6 feet away. Only problem is now, the newer ones that come out by Sony you can’t get less than 55”, so I’m just gonna have to bite the bullet when I upgrade next year or 2021. All depends on HDMI 2.1 and VRR launching.
 
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Racer!

Member
And PS4 is about 150mm² less then PS3.

And PS4Pro is around 30mm² less then PS4 original.

Its not gimping, its just that as manufacturing node go down, chips get more and more expensive per mm². In case of PS3s ~500mm² vs hypoteticsl 316mm², I am sure PS5s would be more expensive as process is getting more expensive itself.

Well, PS4 was seriously gimped no question about that. PS3 was somehing like 493mm2 combined.
 
One thing is certain though, 2080, 2080 super, 2080ti power levels are a pipe dream, no matter how much 'secret sauce' these consoles have.
If you put some barbecue sauce it might ..., defenitely gonna notice the difference between PC & Consoles except Sony exclusives.
I still remember TheLastWords 24-32tf, 32-64gb ram, 16 core Zen 3 cpu prediction for PS5, its in this thread somewhere lol.
Give this guy a Health Care.
That’s exactly what I’m saying, custom 5800 or custom 5900 there are literally no other options.
Yes but a custom 5800 (M) variant might be close to 5700 with RT on top of it so... they might aswell call it 5750xt i saw AMD patent xx50, xx50xt ++ stuff.
 

bitbydeath

Member
Yes but a custom 5800 (M) variant might be close to 5700 with RT on top of it so... they might aswell call it 5750xt i saw AMD patent xx50, xx50xt ++ stuff.

5800 matches what the rumours have all been pointing towards too so I agree it is more likely that as opposed to the 5900.

HE2Cx79.jpg
 
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R600

Banned
Well, PS4 was seriously gimped no question about that. PS3 was somehing like 493mm2 combined.
Yea PS3 was 493mm², but PS2, which was cheaper, was even bigger - 520mm².

360 was 440mm², Xbox One was 363mm² and X was 360mm².

So we are safely moving into direction of smaller and smaller die sizes.
 

Stuart360

Gold Member
5800 matches what the rumours have all been pointing towards too so I agree it is more likely that as opposed to the 5900.

HE2Cx79.jpg
250-300 watts just for the gpu, and the consoles are aiming for what, 200 watts total? for eveything. If they use that card, it will be so stripped back that those specs will mean nothing.
 

bitbydeath

Member
250-300 watts just for the gpu, and the consoles are aiming for what, 200 watts total? for eveything. If they use that card, it will be so stripped back that those specs will mean nothing.

Why would they aim for 200 watts total?
Even the Pro was a lot more than that and wasn't anywhere near as well ventilated as the PS5 Dev Kit.
 
5800 matches what the rumours have all been pointing towards too so I agree it is more likely that as opposed to the 5900.

HE2Cx79.jpg
You know you don't need rumors to figure those out (this chart is flawed btw), i've been counting them earlier on this thread you just do the math and take previous AMD CU counts as example and have an idea of TF count.
 
Yea PS3 was 493mm², but PS2, which was cheaper, was even bigger - 520mm².

360 was 440mm², Xbox One was 363mm² and X was 360mm².

So we are safely moving into direction of smaller and smaller die sizes.
Uhm, what's next? Getting a 150mm2 PS6 APU, supposedly because 3nm GAAFET wafers will be crazy expensive in 2027?

There's a reason Sony delayed the PS5 until late 2020 (and no, it wasn't just the PS4 BC shenanigans).

Consoles always tend to use cost effective and mature nodes. Apple on the other hand tends to be more on the bleeding edge side.
 

bitbydeath

Member
You know you don't need rumors to figure those out (this chart is flawed btw), i've been counting them earlier on this thread you just do the math and take previous AMD CU counts as example and have an idea of TF count.

You used the exact same CU count as previous models or did you account for the extra die space?
 

Stuart360

Gold Member
Why would they aim for 200 watts total?
Even the Pro was a lot more than that and wasn't anywhere near as well ventilated as the PS5 Dev Kit.
Well the premium consoles are a bit different as they were built for raw power, but most new gen consoles run under 200watts, well under in a lot of cases. PS4 for example runs at 165watts.
The next gen consoles would need like 500watts to run a gpu like that, and the cpu and everyhting else. Thats not happening.
 

bitbydeath

Member
Seems likely to be 2.0. And probably the reason both MS and Sony have to wait until next year to launch.

Also everyone just forgot this I guess?

LLe7gUD.jpg

I recall seeing his name before, has he ever gotten anything right or only speculative at this point in time?
 
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Racer!

Member
Yea PS3 was 493mm², but PS2, which was cheaper, was even bigger - 520mm².

360 was 440mm², Xbox One was 363mm² and X was 360mm².

So we are safely moving into direction of smaller and smaller die sizes.

Why PS2 was cheaper is a much longer story than that. But, well see.
 

bitbydeath

Member
Well the premium consoles are a bit different as they were built for raw power, but most new gen consoles run under 200watts, well under in a lot of cases. PS4 for example runs at 165watts.
The next gen consoles would need like 500watts to run a gpu like that, and the cpu and everyhting else. Thats not happening.

You're right, I wouldn't expect anything over 400watts. But I guess that's where the shaving/customisation comes in.
 

Stuart360

Gold Member
You're right, I wouldn't expect anything over 400watts. But I guess that's where the shaving/customisation comes in.
I mean why do you think they sell 800watt, 1000watts pcu's for PC, because you need that for high end hardware. You are just not going to get that power level in a console.
 

R600

Banned
Uhm, what's next? Getting a 150mm2 PS6 APU, supposedly because 3nm GAAFET wafers will be crazy expensive in 2027?

There's a reason Sony delayed the PS5 until late 2020 (and no, it wasn't just the PS4 BC shenanigans).

Consoles always tend to use cost effective and mature nodes. Apple on the other hand tends to be more on the bleeding edge side.
Whatever you say chief. You can try to discredit numbers I posted, but fact is. PS2 die size > PS3 die size > PS4 die size > PS4 Pro die size > ??

For MS its the same so perhaps they know more then us?
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Based on this video it seems the RT is just going to be shadows and Ambient Occlusion which points to a weaker GPU. I was hoping we would get RT reflections like Control but according to them this thing wont have the horsepower. Control on my 2080ti looks incredible maxed with RT. Like really really good.

Seems an ~5700 with some weaker HW RT is what we can expect. Bummer.



LOL, you are a trip.

This is just them speculating.

They did go on to say the closed box nature makes for much more performance tricks compared to the PC open platform of the same nature.

So pick your poison in what they said.
 

Fake

Member
And Nibel have receive (in the first wired article about PS5) what I guess its a devkit config/picture/proof? of Project Scarlet from the user 'Klobrille' from reee.
 

Croatoan

They/Them A-10 Warthog
Nope. 5700 is already ruled out as it doesn’t support RT. It is not that.
Are you slow? Any card can support raytracing if it is custom.

What is more likely, a custom 5700 with RT hardware tacked on or a GPU that doesn't exist yet that is double the cost if the 5700?

You do know that any card can brute force raytracing if the game supports it right?

Wait till he realizes what that M means. Gonna break his heart.
 
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bitbydeath

Member
Are you slow? Any card can support raytracing if it is custom.

What is more likely, a custom 5700 with RT hardware tacked on or a GPU that doesn't exist yet and will likely double the 5700?

You do know that any card can brute force raytracing if the game supports it right?

The GPU that doesn’t exist yet as you can’t just custom the 5700. You’d be starting from scratch with a whole new card. Which I guess is another possibility. Completely custom based off nothing card.
 

Croatoan

They/Them A-10 Warthog
Wait till he realizes what that M means. Gonna break his heart.
The GPU that doesn’t exist yet as you can’t just custom the 5700. You’d be starting from scratch with a whole new card. Which I guess is another possibility. Completely custom based off nothing card.
No shit? So you can't make a custom GPU based off of a 5700 architecture but you can from some future card?

Your logic is wacko.
 

bitbydeath

Member
Wait till he realizes what that M means. Gonna break his heart.

No shit? So you can't make a custom GPU based off of a 5700 architecture but you can from some future card?

Your logic is wacko.

The M stands for Mobile obviously.
I’m just pointing out the facts, you can’t base it off the 5700 because the whole architecture changes with the introduction of RT.
 

Croatoan

They/Them A-10 Warthog
The M stands for Mobile obviously.
I’m just pointing out the facts, you can’t base it off the 5700 because the whole architecture changes with the introduction of RT.

M means massively underpowered as well.

You can't base it off the retail card, but you can use the basic architecture for a custom design....It's much more likely than getting some future card that "runs circles around s 2080ti".

I love consoles and play them more than my pc but a new console will never be more powerful than an enthusiast pc. Ergo ps5 isnt going to even touch a 2080 super, let alone a 2080ti.
 
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