Support NeoGAF

[ResilientBanana]

Is that really a sane question?

Who knows what sane is anymore, especially in this thread.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

The same guy basically confirmed that both PS5 and Scarlett will be within the same power ballpark with PS5 having slight edge.

Where does it say in the tweet and images PS5 has an edge?

 

[Shangounchained]

Who knows what sane is anymore, especially in this thread.

Well pigs may fly whatever the case if those machines are what I've seen and leaks I've read then we should simple be ready for a PS4 pro 2 and a Xbox one x2

 

[Lort]

But the Xbox One X was gimped by processing power, GCN, Xbox One S, and simply the Xbox One. The games had to be compatible across all 3 and plenty of games had a lot of overhead when ran at 4K on the GPU side. But the CPU had to have been maxed out for the most part. It’s like driving a Ferrari in second gear the whole time.

It’s funny how so many people mention the Xbox One and Xbox One S held back the Xbox One X’s visuals. But when it comes down to Next-Gen suddenly 9TF RDNA is inferior to 6TF GCN. Which in reality it’s a far more powerful architecture.

9TF RDNA = 13.5TF GCN

Tf counts

Xbox one -> xbox one x = 4x
Xbox one x -> next gen = 2.5 x

 

[Shangounchained]

Tf counts

Xbox one -> xbox one x = 4x
Xbox one x -> next gen = 2.5 x

It's really going to be shite n I mean proper proper disappointment especially after phill & spencer saying that next gen Xbox will prioritize framerates and resolution over graphics. Xbox one X 2.0 here's we come

 

[Shangounchained]

Id rather wait till 2022 - 2023 for a proper next gen console thatll have all the package better graphics better frame rates and better resolutions than to release consoles next year that will be half assed, theres no point they couldn't even add enough ram they don't even want to talk about ram they keep on chatting about SSD and load times, brace yourselves for the worst next gen!

 

[Aceofspades]

Where does it say in the tweet and images PS5 has an edge?

He said it in the thread in Reeeee

 

[sonomamashine]

Nope. It is not. 4K will be the minimum res next-gen and 9TF is not enough to accomplish that.

And that’s before you add Ray-Tracing into the mix as well.

Plus as others have already admitted the 5700XT can’t do RT so the 5900 which has RT is what will be used and is more powerful than 9TF.

The writing is on the wall.

Who ever told you 4k is the minimum is making a mockery of you, i dont know wich part of 5700 xt performance you dont get, it doesnt mean its 5700 but the peeformance of it and RT.

I don't care about 60fps or resolutions I need to see a leap in graphics fidelity what Ur saying is that next gen consoles will simply be 4k 60fps ports of current games cause it's simply where we're heading it's a silly circle were stuck at

Depends on the resolution, and remember EDIT your posts.

Where does it say in the tweet and images PS5 has an edge?

Details my friend .

 

[ResilientBanana]

Tf counts

Xbox one -> xbox one x = 4x
Xbox one x -> next gen = 2.5 x

Were sitting here talking about how the Xbox One X never hit potential. But we are also saying 2.5x is somehow not impressive considering it’s 2.5x a fairly high number of TF for a console. 2.5 x 100 is mediocre 2.5 x 1000000 is a significant amount better. But consider the fact that the Xbox One was the base and is what held the games back in the first place. Now we are at 10x more performance than the original console.

 

[bitbydeath]

Who ever told you 4k is the minimum is making a mockery of you, i dont know wich part of 5700 xt performance you dont get, it doesnt mean its 5700 but the peeformance of it and RT.

It’s common sense.

• 4K is the current standard (consoles have never fallen below)
• They’ve already announced they’re both pushing for 8K so given that is way above 4K then 4K will be accomplished easily on their 8K target specs.
• The Pro and X are targeting 4K now, consoles won’t go backwards.
• Xbox had two consoles which they cancelled the weaker one due to underestimating what PS5 would target, notice they cancelled it after Sonys announcement.

There really is no reason to expect a weak machine at this point.

 

[sonomamashine]

Tf counts

Xbox one -> xbox one x = 4x
Xbox one x -> next gen = 2.5 x

Were sitting here talking about how the Xbox One X never hit potential. But we are also saying 2.5x is somehow not impressive considering it’s 2.5x a fairly high number of TF for a console. 2.5 x 100 is mediocre 2.5 x 1000000 is a significant amount better. But consider the fact that the Xbox One was the base and is what held the games back in the first place. Now we are at 10x more performance than the original console.

Phil spencer said scarlett is 4x onex (he sure not talking about GPU) dont understand why people pretending a 4x + jump......

It’s common sense.

• 4K is the current standard (consoles have never fallen below)
• They’ve already announced they’re both pushing for 8K so given that is way above 4K then 4K will be accomplished easily on their 8K target specs.
• The Pro and X are targeting 4K now, consoles won’t go backwards.
• Xbox had two consoles which they cancelled the weaker one due to underestimating what PS5 would target, notice they cancelled it after Sonys announcement.

There really is no reason to expect a weak machine at this point.

Yes 4k60 like halo trailer is possible, didnt said 4k wasent possible, but not crazy graphics.

 

[ResilientBanana]

Phil spencer said scarlett is 4x onex (he sure not talking about GPU) dont understand why people pretending a 4x + jump......

Yes 4k60 like halo trailer is possible, didnt said 4k wasent possible, but not crazy graphics.

Did you not see the DF breakdown? Also, we have no idea if it’s open world or not, but signs are pointing to yes.

 

[bitbydeath]

Yes 4k60 like halo trailer is possible, didnt said 4k wasent possible, but not crazy graphics.

Halos being built with the XB1S in mind so is not a good comparison for next-gen.

 

[Lort]

Were sitting here talking about how the Xbox One X never hit potential. But we are also saying 2.5x is somehow not impressive considering it’s 2.5x a fairly high number of TF for a console. 2.5 x 100 is mediocre 2.5 x 1000000 is a significant amount better. But consider the fact that the Xbox One was the base and is what held the games back in the first place. Now we are at 10x more performance than the original console.

The cpu is significantly better which is great but cpu does not make better graphics.

The games will have more going on and look better than xbox one x ... but not amazingly so. The realtime ray tracing will be the most significant difference .. expect games to be much better lit, have better textures.. many games as always will be cross gen.

Will be interesting to see late gen games running on xbox one x .. can an xbox one x run realtime ray tracing at 1080p 30 fps ... to some extent yes.

Every developer is excited about the cpu is saying “we no longer have to optimise code for console” .. which is another way of saying the crappy optimisation that works on pcs can now be ported to console. Triple A developers always use gpu compute anyway, they will care more about the 12 tf gpu rather than the 2 tf cpu.

 

[Gamernyc78]

If next gen is what I saw in ahlo infinite and flight simulator then it's not a big leap at all

I wouldn't judge it by what Micro studios do but more what Sony's top devs do. Every gen thy show how to make games tht are generational leaps. Like how Infamous Second Son was a launch window game and it was way ahead of the previous Infamous. I wasn't impressed with this new Halo showing, games like TLOU2, Ghost of T, Etc look more advanced to me.

 

[longdi]

PS5 info leak from reputable whathifi!

Sony PlayStation 5 review

The PS5 is here, but is it better than the Xbox Series X?

www.whathifi.com

 

[Bani]

But 9TF RDNA its like 18TF GCN, so its fine!

nooo,more like 150TF,jesus 18,where you just found that number,more like maybe 12TF

 

[psorcerer]

honestly i don't know, but i think it more depends on devs achieving such visuals in game then if hw is capable, on other hand if that's is pushing 1080Ti just to render a scene, i would presume next-gen consoles would not be capable achieve that in videogame just the render.
my personal goal for next-gen to achieve visuals in videogame would be:

It was achieved on prev-gen hardware.
Everything pre-baked though. Like they went huge lengths to pre-bake even the animations (IIRC animations and particles took almost all the frame time in that demo).

 

[Darius87]

I think that Aegnis video can be done on a PS4 PRO and Xbox One X right now lol.

maybe but not in 4k and we don't have better looking game this gen so far, so i'm on pessimistic side, i hope with next-gen this type of visuals will be the norm.

Because thats when diminishing returns will hit not before.

it's already hiting in some areas of course you can't go beyond photo-real, but some aspects in some games looks already photo real.

No, so many effects make up a scene. New hw not only enables current effects to be used more heavily but it also new effects and techniques
Even the polygon comparison is flawed, its pointless to add more polygons without adding more details to the scene

if it's flawed then you should see clear difference in polys on 4 cars in the left side in example, if these model would be fully rendered with proportional increase in details you still wouldn't see clear differerce between left 2 cars.

Not really

so you're telling that ps1 to ps2 leap wasn't biggest leap with playstation consoles and not gonne downhill from there?

It was achieved on prev-gen hardware.

yes, just not in videogame.

 

[Mass Shift]

If the 2GHz clock rumor is indeed real, 44CU is the minimum, 48CU the middle ground and 52-56CU the ceiling
Think about it: If all they could pull at 2ghz is 36-40CU they'd be much more likely to go with 48-56CUs at lower clocks (1600-1800mhz) achieving far greater perf/watt

One would think, right?

In either case I don't think Komachi's intention was to mislead or make up anything, he seems to be about as objective a source as we'll find with these leaks. He may just have unearthed a test clock for the GPU, or it may actually represent the final spec. We just don't know at this point.

Strange that we haven't seen similar tests of any engineering samples for Scarlett. Is Scarlett really RDNA2 or just elements of it?

 

[Shangounchained]

I wouldn't judge it by what Micro studios do but more what Sony's top devs do. Every gen thy show how to make games tht are generational leaps. Like how Infamous Second Son was a launch window game and it was way ahead of the previous Infamous. I wasn't impressed with this new Halo showing, games like TLOU2, Ghost of T, Etc look more advanced to me.

Exactly what I've always been saying problem is phill spencer said they are prioritizing framerates and resolutions over graphics and this is what you'll get for such idiocy

 

[Shangounchained]

maybe but not in 4k and we don't have better looking game this gen so far, so i'm on pessimistic side, i hope with next-gen this type of visuals will be the norm.

it's already hiting in some areas of course you can't go beyond photo-real, but some aspects in some games looks already photo real.

if it's flawed then you should see clear difference in polys on 4 cars in the left side in example, if these model would be fully rendered with proportional increase in details you still wouldn't see clear differerce between left 2 cars.

so you're telling that ps1 to ps2 leap wasn't biggest leap with playstation consoles and not gonne downhill from there?

yes, just not in videogame.

Alot of games already look like Aegnis phylosophy if someone says no it seems you need to relook that demo or otherwise your a Xbox gamer, if you only have Xbox and pc then truly I can't blame you there isn't a game that looks like Aegnis but for playstation I can say uncharted 4, death stranding, ghost of tsushima, lesbian ass 2 already look like that Aegnis demo

 

[Darius87]

Alot of games already look like Aegnis phylosophy if someone says no it seems you need to relook that demo or otherwise your a Xbox gamer, if you only have Xbox and pc then truly I can't blame you there isn't a game that looks like Aegnis but for playstation I can say uncharted 4, death stranding, ghost of tsushima, lesbian ass 2 already look like that Aegnis demo

agnis philosophy looks like cg quality even in real time neither of these games you mentioned looks like cg in realtime.

In April 2015, Square Enix revealed a new tech demo called Witch Chapter 0 [cry], featuring the character Agni from the Agni's Philosophy tech demo. It supports DirectX 12, and renders over 63 million polygons per frame, with the use of very high 8192x8192 resolution textures. The hair is rendered with over 50 shaders, and each strand of hair is rendered with polygons. It portrays human crying at a level of quality never seen before with a real-time 3D character.[3] It runs on a powerful PC equipped with four GTX Titan X graphics cards. This tech demo is considered to have the most advanced real-time graphics seen to date.

i have ps4 and you failed miserably.

 

[xool]

So Kleegamefan came back, you might as well go read the thread at this point - but some snippets (I gave up after a bit)

Summary

• PS5 delayed ~2017 due to difficulties implementing BC (orig intended release 2019)
• Saw a new Action RPG IP (California studio I think) - game using ray tracing
• Power difference between PS5 and XBOX2 is neglible (also hinted earlier that Gameinformer's Reiner was probably right PS5 has slight edge)
• No specs

 

[T-Cake]

Digital Foundry's going to be needed more than ever. Which game runs 3fps better on Xbox Scarlett than PS5? That's the version to get!

 

[xool]

I still suspect Xbox might drop with a few Gigs more (free) game ram, one way or the other. We'll see.

 

[Shangounchained]

agnis philosophy looks like cg quality even in real time neither of these games you mentioned looks like cg in realtime.

i have ps4 and you failed miserably.

Besides the hair strands on that demo I don't know what looks different from playstation exclusives whether they used a billion polygons it still looks like playstation exlusives

 

[Mass Shift]

Exactly what I've always been saying problem is phill spencer said they are prioritizing framerates and resolutions over graphics and this is what you'll get for such idiocy

Not a good example for the point that you're trying to make.

The SlipSpace engine renders whole environments for a FPS with cooperative campaign and multiplayer that's going for as close to open world as it can get while also targeting high frames and rez. .

Tsushima is a beautiful game, but it's also a 3rd person SP on rails to provide the most cinematic experience. So naturally you're going to see devs prioritize accordingly.

Given everything that's going on with Halo Infinite, I'm going to have to say Slipspace is far more advanced than what's going on with Tsushima. And again Tsushima is incredibly beautiful.

 

[Shangounchained]

Besides the hair strands on that demo I don't know what looks different from playstation exclusives whether they used a billion polygons it still looks like playstation exlusives

Next cod modern warfare can push 24 million polygons per frame and it runs at 60 FPS

Not a good example for the point that you're trying to make.

The SlipSpace engine renders whole environments for a FPS with cooperative campaign and multiplayer that's going for as close to open world as it can get while also targeting high frames and rez. .

Tsushima is a beautiful game, but it's also a 3rd person SP on rails to provide the most cinematic experience. So naturally you're going to see devs prioritize accordingly.

Given everything that's going on with Halo Infinite, I'm going to have to say Slipspace is far more advanced than what's going on with Tsushima. And again Tsushima is incredibly beautiful.

Nope your very wrong tsushima looks open world and there's alot going on on screen whereby yes halo infinite is a new engine but halo is mainly known for flat techy surfaces which are very easy to render with polygon engines for instance that space ship and masterchiefs suit, there's less to be impressed by slipspace engine and alot with ghost of tsushima,

Nothing shown on halo infinite is as impressive as this in anybodys eyes and that's a fact you can talk numbers and figures but ghost of tsushima still looks better and there are reasons why Microsoft haven't shown any open gameplay I'm pretty sure they know it doesn't look as good as playstation exclusives.

 

[Shangounchained]

I still suspect Xbox might drop with a few Gigs more (free) game ram, once way or the other. We'll see.

I think we'll all be disappointed with ram I'm thinking 16gb now because they keep on talking about the ssd and load times and evading any questions about ram I really suspect were all fucked in the ram department

 

[xool]

I think we'll all be disappointed with ram I'm thinking 16gb now because they keep on talking about the ssd and load times and evading any questions about ram I really suspect were all fucked in the ram department

Yep Kleegamefan said don't get too excited about specs, and I suspect ram will be a big part of that. Even 24GB is looking hopelessly optimistic at this point.

(possibly GPU to a lesser extent)

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

SonGoku SpinningBirdKick

Your opinions on Kleegamefan's info?

 

[PUNKem733]

I think we'll all be disappointed with ram I'm thinking 16gb now because they keep on talking about the ssd and load times and evading any questions about ram I really suspect were all fucked in the ram department

I'm sure that all 16 (if that's what we get) will be available. I'm betting on 4-6GGB of DDR4 for OS.

 

[Shangounchained]

I'm sure that all 16 (if that's what we get) will be available. I'm betting on 4-6GGB of DDR4 for OS.

If 16 GB is all well be getting then that won't just fuck up consoles it'll fuck up the whole industry including pcs it's safe to say I'm ready to give up and start cloud gaming than to support them on shitty 16gb machines cause they seem to be rushing them out and they don't even want to stop and rethink!

 

[Darius87]

Besides the hair strands on that demo I don't know what looks different from playstation exclusives whether they used a billion polygons it still looks like playstation exlusives

don't mind hairs that's gpu butcher that's probably why they needed 4 gpus, but everything else from character models to enviroment, lightning, shadows, reflections, etc. tesselated textures vs ps4 adaptive tesselation, bigger then 8K textures vs ps4 not even 4K textures? far more polys...
but somehow you can't see difference from ps exclussives, i mean c'mon i love ps4 and it's exclussives are ones of the best games for me, but this is blind fanboy shit you're talking about.

Next cod modern warfare can push 24 million polygons per frame and it runs at 60 FPS

63 > then 24 even at 30fps if we double polys for cod still 63 > 48 and FF agni's looks far better then cod.

 

[PUNKem733]

If 16 GB is all well be getting then that won't just fuck up consoles it'll fuck up the whole industry including pcs it's safe to say I'm ready to give up and start cloud gaming than to support them on shitty 16gb machines cause they seem to be rushing them out and they don't even want to stop and rethink!

WOW. That kind of hate for unreleased machines that are over a year out is mind boggling.

 

[xool]

Difficult to set expectations for next gen graphics .. and CG usually takes a cinematic style, rather than resembling gameplay .. but .. will we see stuff that meets/exceeds the cinematics for Witcher 3

eg

(start about 1min in) - it is CG still.

 

[Shangounchained]

WOW. That kind of hate for unreleased machines that are over a year out is mind boggling.

It's not hate I'm simply saying if they come out with 16gb then im done

 

[Shangounchained]

Difficult to set expectations for next gen graphics .. and CG usually takes a cinematic style, rather than resembling gameplay .. but .. will we see stuff that meets/exceeds the cinematics for Witcher 3

eg

(start about 1min in) - it is CG still.

Splinter cell had action similar to this but graphically yes I think it's possible for next gen to reach such visuals

 

[Darius87]

If 16 GB is all well be getting then that won't just fuck up consoles it'll fuck up the whole industry including pcs it's safe to say I'm ready to give up and start cloud gaming than to support them on shitty 16gb machines cause they seem to be rushing them out and they don't even want to stop and rethink!

if they'll go for more ram it might be worse for you because you'll have to ask for more money from your mom to get you ps5.

 

[Shangounchained]

don't mind hairs that's gpu butcher that's probably why they needed 4 gpus, but everything else from character models to enviroment, lightning, shadows, reflections, etc. tesselated textures vs ps4 adaptive tesselation, bigger then 8K textures vs ps4 not even 4K textures? far more polys...
but somehow you can't see difference from ps exclussives, i mean c'mon i love ps4 and it's exclussives are ones of the best games for me, but this is blind fanboy shit you're talking about.

63 > then 24 even at 30fps if we double polys for cod still 63 > 48 and FF agni's looks far better then cod.

I'm talking about poly count n I couldn't care less how many this or that is in Agni's it still looks like current PS4 exclusives

 

[Shangounchained]

if they'll go for more ram it might be worse for you because you'll have to ask for more money from your mom to get you ps5.

Not a problem for me I actually work but don't know about you u might have to suck Ur step father's hairy stuff to get one

 

[PUNKem733]

I'm talking about poly count n I couldn't care less how many this or that is in Agni's it still looks like current PS4 exclusives

Are you serious? Now you're trolling. I give you two slow claps, and that's it.

 

[Shangounchained]

I'm talking about poly count n I couldn't care less how many this or that is in Agni's it still looks like current PS4 exclusives

What your still talking is numbers and figures your talking about tesselation polygon count and so on I'm talking about the looks and for me ghost of tsushima or death stranding look better than that tech demo, it's like saying battlefield on pc at 8k with raytracing looks better than a PS4 exclusive which is rubbish, numbers and figures don't simply translate to a better looking game, power is nothing without control

 

[PUNKem733]

Not a problem for me I actually work but don't know about you u might have to suck Ur step father's hairy stuff to get one

"hairy stuff"

This place is incredible.

 

[Shangounchained]

Are you serious? Now you're trolling. I give you two slow claps, and that's it.

You remind me of when crytek wasted resources by tesselating road blocks which didn't improve anything other than eat GPU resources

 

[PUNKem733]

You remind me of when crytek wasted resources by tesselating road blocks which didn't improve anything other than eat GPU resources

I remind you of that? LOL Every generation there are people like you, and every gen the games that come out blow our minds.

 

[Shangounchained]

I remind you of that? LOL Every generation there are people like you, and every gen the games that come out blow our minds.

Yes every generation they blow our minds with fantastic games by not wasting gpu resources and by investing on art direction and good engineering they don't just sit down and move graphics sliders like you do on pc

 

[Darius87]

Not a problem for me I actually work but don't know about you u might have to suck Ur step father's hairy stuff to get one

dam dude you're gonne to far my father dead long ago. hope you're gonna get banned for good.

 

[Shangounchained]

dam dude you're gonne to far my father dead long ago. hope you're gonna get banned for good.

Who gives a fuck neogaf doesn't stop me from eating so go suck those hairy stuff while Ur crying