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New 2TB and 512 GB Seagate Expansion Cards for Xbox Series X|S ($400 and $140 respectively) announced

DeepEnigma

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Do you have anything substantive to add to the conversation or just childish nonsense? I get the joke anyone who isn't attacking MS is paid by MS Har Har Har. It's lame bro.
I am not joking, I am genuinely asking. Your words read like a preapproved script more often then not. Down to the buzzwords, and it would not be the first or last time these forums had marketing types disguised as "just totally normal fans bro, honest", just an observation.

I've added plenty to this thread. Shit is overpriced.

I'm still laughing at your first appearance in this thread,
"I'm sorry what does an the most affordable current generation console have to do with this topic at all?"

TLW, indeed. One who which did the very same thing for team blue, and got ran off for it when MS fans disliked that same style.
 
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DarkMage619

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Joke Post?

M.2s are literally about 3 times faster than the XSX SSD 2.4GB speeds. That is objectively better performance, while being cheaper at the same time.
There's no way around it:
Open Market > Proprietary.
Show the evidence. Games load on the 2 consoles at almost the same rates. In some cases the 'slower' Xbox drives load titles even faster. I could be mistaken but can you pull out an NVME drive and use it to share games with your friends? It is certainly cheaper but lacks the same functionality. They ae different solutions that offer different features. It it's a joke it isn't funny. The ONLY advantage is price and for that potential lower cost you lose features. It's a trade off on an optional storage solution.
 

GHG

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So they used a Sonnet reader to test it. So... not the proprietary hardware inside the Xbox. These numbers are meaningless, since those speeds would not be sufficient to provide load times on par with the internal drive.
I'm not seeing an accurate way to compare speeds.

It's a raw test of the hardware to help you understand what it is you're paying for. If you don't understand why that's important or why it's something you should care about then I don't know what to tell you.
 

DarkMage619

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I am not joking, I am genuinely asking. Your words read like a preapproved script more often then not. Down to the buzzwords, and it would not be the first or last time these forums had marketing types disguised as "just totally normal fans bro, honest", just an observation.

I've added plenty to this thread.

I'm still laughing at your first appearance in this thread,
"I'm sorry what does an the most affordable current generation console have to do with this topic at all?"

TLW, indeed. One who which did the very same thing for team blue, and got ran off for it when MS fans disliked that same style.
Yeah man you are full of informative thoughtful commentary. Pushing the same lame accusation the many Sony fans here level and anyone who isn't 'dunking' on MS. You had the same act when the XSS wasn't sold out at a Best Buy only to find out it was.

Yes. I think the XSS is the cheapest current gen console. Am I wrong? I didn't even bring up the XSS in this thread but it remains odd that if people are so upset about the prices of the Xbox memory cards would mention the XSS seeing how the price ISN'T the the thing people, non Xbox customers mainly, have with that system.

It is quite telling you'd accuse me of being like The Last Word who if I am mistaken was a huge Sony fan.... and I'm certain one of your good friends. I'm touched to see you so concerned about the Xbox memory card prices though. You thinking about buying one for your Xbox man? You can always use an external hard drive if it's out of your price range no need for passive aggressive nonsense.
 
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Banjo64

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Joke Post?

M.2s are literally about 3 times faster than the XSX SSD 2.4GB speeds. That is objectively better performance, while being cheaper at the same time.
There's no way around it:
Open Market > Proprietary.
I don’t even disagree but you get diminishing returns in terms of real world results. On paper 7.5 is obviously 3 times more than 2.5, however that doesn’t translate to games loading 3 times as fast.

For the record I prefer Sony’s way of changing hard drives.
 
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DeepEnigma

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Yeah man you are full of informative thoughtful commentary. Pushing the same lame accusation the many Sony fans here level and anyone who isn't 'dunking' on MS. You had the same act when the XSS wasn't sold out at a Best Buy only to find out it was.

Yes. I think the XSS is the cheapest current gen console. Am I wrong? I didn't even bring up the XSS in this thread but it remains odd that if people are so upset about the prices of the Xbox memory cards would mention the XSS seeing how the price ISN'T the the thing people, non Xbox customers mainly, have with that system.

It is quite telling you'd accuse me of being like The Last Word who if I am mistaken was a huge Sony fan.... and I'm certain one of your good friends. I'm touched to see you so concerned about the Xbox memory card prices though. You thinking about buying one for your Xbox man? You can always use an external hard drive if it's out of your price range no need for passive aggressive nonsense.
I seem to have stuck a chord with you. Carry on TLW, green edition.
 

Del_X

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It's a raw test of the hardware to help you understand what it is you're paying for. If you don't understand why that's important or why it's something you should care about then I don't know what to tell you.
How is it a raw test if it's using hardware not comparable to its intended design?
 
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dcmk7

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Yeah man you are full of informative thoughtful commentary. Pushing the same lame accusation the many Sony fans here level and anyone who isn't 'dunking' on MS. You had the same act when the XSS wasn't sold out at a Best Buy only to find out it was.

Yes. I think the XSS is the cheapest current gen console. Am I wrong? I didn't even bring up the XSS in this thread but it remains odd that if people are so upset about the prices of the Xbox memory cards would mention the XSS seeing how the price ISN'T the the thing people, non Xbox customers mainly, have with that system.

It is quite telling you'd accuse me of being like The Last Word who if I am mistaken was a huge Sony fan.... and I'm certain one of your good friends. I'm touched to see you so concerned about the Xbox memory card prices though. You thinking about buying one for your Xbox man? You can always use an external hard drive if it's out of your price range no need for passive aggressive nonsense.

Amazed you continue to get away with this shit.
 

truth411

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I don’t even disagree but you get diminishing returns in terms of real world results. On paper 7.5 is obviously 3 times more than 2.5, however that doesn’t translate to games loading 3 times as fast.

For the record I prefer Sony’s way of changing hard drives.
But we haven't even really seen results yet because no current game engine is really design to take advantage of it. Not even RatchetnClank, though it does give us a hint. Also the big advantage is more about Streaming in Assets than Load times. Sony removed all the bottlenecks for Data Throughput. That said, its still beside the point:
Open Market > Proprietary.
 

kikonawa

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It depends on what you mean by better.

You can choose from multiple vendors on PS5 and choose the best price/performance that meets your needs. That's a plus but...

The small form factor and hot-swappable (plug-and-play without turning the system off) nature of Xbox's SSD means you can move it around much easier (to a friends/families house or within your own home if you have multiple systems). - - - Having to do this on a PS5 is one hell of a chore.
who moves his nvme drives around anyway?
 
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Bogroll

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who moves his nvme drives around anyway?
I do (Series consoles), it's a Godsend, especially if you ain't got the best internet and games that are 40gb plus still take a while with the external hdd.
Only got One Ps5 at the moment though.
 

phil_t98

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I am not joking, I am genuinely asking. Your words read like a preapproved script more often then not. Down to the buzzwords, and it would not be the first or last time these forums had marketing types disguised as "just totally normal fans bro, honest", just an observation.

I've added plenty to this thread. Shit is overpriced.

I'm still laughing at your first appearance in this thread,
"I'm sorry what does an the most affordable current generation console have to do with this topic at all?"

TLW, indeed. One who which did the very same thing for team blue, and got ran off for it when MS fans disliked that same style.
I will say he didn’t get ran off, he posted shite lol and got kicked off

the last word that is
 
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Panajev2001a

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So they used a Sonnet reader to test it. So... not the proprietary hardware inside the Xbox. These numbers are meaningless, since those speeds would not be sufficient to provide load times on par with the internal drive.
I'm not seeing an accurate way to compare speeds.
2.4 GB/s is what the interface can read, but sure they threw an 8 GB/s drive at it :rolleyes:.
 
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GHG

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How is it a raw test if it's using hardware not comparable to its intended design?

It's actually testing the hardware to see what it's capable of, do you not understand the concept? It's why teardowns also happen for all the hardware we get these days, everything from your consoles through to their peripherals like headphones, controllers etc.

By this logic I take it you think all the benchmarking and teardown done by hardware outlets is worthless because things can only be tested/considered under specific circumstances?

At the end of the day all these tests that are done are to help potential buyers understand what kind of value proposition they are getting. It's all about understanding the quality of the components you end up with. It then results in a discussion around what the cost of production was along with whether there were any alternative avenues the company could have taken to get the same end result. Your attitude is exactly why companies will push the boundaries of what they can get away with when it comes to ripping consumers off in the name of exorbitant margins.
 
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DeepEnigma

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I will say he didn’t get ran off, he posted shite lol and got kicked off

the last word that is
True, but let’s now pretend that dude did not get piled on every time he posted (rightfully so), hell, even topics by Xbox fans were created about him. I am sure the report button was spammed for him as well to meet that demise.

I just see the very same pattern of posting style, is all.
 
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phil_t98

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True, but let’s now pretend that dude did not get piled on every time he posted (rightfully so), hell, even topics by Xbox fans were created about him. I am sure the report button was spammed for him as well to meet that demise.

I just see the very same pattern of posting style, is all.

TLW created topics about Xbox to get people riled up and it worked, he would post essays and eassays about how good PS4 was good and Xbox bad. He was the worst troll I ever seen on here. Do not get me wrong there still a lot here and on all sides to.

he just took it to another level, I do miss the bollocks he posted but the place is better off without it.
 
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Not cheap but I suppose that is the downside of using a non standard format. I still haven't got one for my Series X yet.
I did buy one of the SSDs that Mark Cerny bought on amazon.co.uk, I went for the 1TB version without the heatsink and it was just over £140 which seems to be about standard on amazon.
I would have preferred to get a 2TB model but the prices go up pretty rapidly and they're currently more than twice the price.
I should really have posted it with the above but, if anybody in the UK is interested in this then here's the amazon.co.uk link to the Mark Cerny recommended NVMe Gen4 7000 MB/s WD_BLACK SN850 1TB at £139.98. It was the cheapest that I could find the full spec version at the time but you may be able to get it cheaper elsewhere, I've not checked for some time.
Remember, you will need to supply your own heatsink, well, unless you want to pay £257.99 there for the exact same version that includes a one.
I'm hoping for a nice sale of these on Black Friday, hopefully for the 2TB version as I'd be able to switch my 1TB to an external dock via the PS5 10 Gbps SuperSpeed USB ports.
If they don't have the 2TB version on sale it may still be worth buying another 1TB to use as an external drive.
 
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Those are ripoff prices, plain and clear.

Couldn't imagine a year ago that Sony's solution would turn out to be the better of the two for expanding internal storage, yet here we are. I've seen some people try justifying the prices on these cards by claiming their portability, or the fact that someone with a Series wouldn't care about SSD prices since Series systems don't use those for internal storage anyway, but both of those are poor excuses.

It's not that difficult to insert or remove a SSD; I'm not exactly sure how the PS5 itself handles OS operation with expanded internal storage (does the OS itself still reside on the internal SSD or does it copy OS files to run off the expanded internal SSD, because I know both don't function simultaneously because there's a switching fabric for the internal and optional SSDs?), but yeah it's not very difficult moving SSDs around physically speaking. As to the other point, we're talking about gamers who still haven't decided on whether to buy a PS5 or Series, so the way they handle expanded storage WILL play a role in swaying that type of customer one way or the other.

Realistically speaking, these new cards should be $99 (512 GB) and $249 (2 TB), with the 1 TB reduced to $179. It's also debatable if Microsoft should've used CF Express at all; those type of cards are mainly intended for mobile products or devices you're going to do a lot of digital capture with outdoors at various locations, like cameras or mobile audio setups. There's not much a point for them on a stationary home games console, it'd make more sense for the Switch to have a CF Express port tbh (and who knows, maybe Switch 2 will but I strongly doubt it). Microsoft's own Surface devices use those really small m.2 SSDs and if power/heat as well as form factor/size were the concerns why not just have a tiny-sized m.2 2230 slot in the place where they have the CF Express card slot? I don't know how readily available 2230-sized m.2 SSDs are to find among manufacturers but there ARE some out there at capacities and speeds roughly equivalent to what the Series expansion cards offer.

If not, then...why not just provide a larger 2242 or so m.2 slot and give users options for those particular SSDs in the future while just using whatever it is they use for the internal storage currently? They still keep the two-lane PCIe 4.0 setup for both but having a larger m.2 slot for expansion would be both cheaper and more or less just as portable.

I'm truly baffled by Microsoft's choice to go with CF Express now, in hindsight.
 
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Jaysen

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Speed keeps being brought up as a huge difference, but I own Immortals, Tetris Effect, Destiny, and GTA 5 on both consoles. The games are installed on the addon drive on my XSX and on my SN850 on PS5 and all load faster on the X. Both initial loads and levels within the games. The only time speed is impressive on my PS5 is when playing an exclusive.
 
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Being idiot proof and the extra income I’d assume.
Well, maybe it would've been best then to just keep it to Series S because the Series X appeals mainly to hardcore/core gamers who would be able to handle and install an SSD without issue. It's not like MS are short on peripherals to sell to bring in more money, either, so going with CF Express for both consoles just seems like a badly calculated decision the more time goes on.

I don't even see CF Express gaining mass-market adaptation for several years if ever, between microSD speeds getting better (and capacities improving), wireless storage catching on, and SSDs of various sizes getting faster and cheaper. I mean did anyone stop to ask why they would choose such a format for Series when they (and many others) avoid it completely for their laptop and tablet products where it would theoretically make somewhat more sense?

Just a baffling decision all around.
 
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HeisenbergFX4

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Well, maybe it would've been best then to just keep it to Series S because the Series X appeals mainly to hardcore/core gamers who would be able to handle and install an SSD without issue. It's not like MS are short on peripherals to sell to bring in more money, either, so going with CF Express for both consoles just seems like a badly calculated decision the more time goes on.

I don't even see CF Express gaining mass-market adaptation for several years if ever, between microSD speeds getting better (and capacities improving), wireless storage catching on, and SSDs of various sizes getting faster and cheaper. I mean did anyone stop to ask why they would choose such a format for Series when they (and many others) avoid it completely for their laptop and tablet products where it would theoretically make somewhat more sense?

Just a baffling decision all around.
I personally prefer the MS solution honestly and do not mind paying extra for the convenience
 

Topher

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Well, maybe it would've been best then to just keep it to Series S because the Series X appeals mainly to hardcore/core gamers who would be able to handle and install an SSD without issue. It's not like MS are short on peripherals to sell to bring in more money, either, so going with CF Express for both consoles just seems like a badly calculated decision the more time goes on.

I don't even see CF Express gaining mass-market adaptation for several years if ever, between microSD speeds getting better (and capacities improving), wireless storage catching on, and SSDs of various sizes getting faster and cheaper. I mean did anyone stop to ask why they would choose such a format for Series when they (and many others) avoid it completely for their laptop and tablet products where it would theoretically make somewhat more sense?

Just a baffling decision all around.


CF Express was probably the best option for a non-internal connector type that could house an NVMe SSD. It doesn't need to be adopted by the mass-market for Microsoft's needs since their SSD has a proprietary controller anyway.

The question really comes down to how quickly can/will the XSX expansion drive fall in price. If they can keep the price reasonably close to standard SSD prices then I don't think it will be that big of an issue long term. But if they prices stagnate while standard falls then cost could be factor for some, but for the vast majority, this isn't really a big deal in either case.
 
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DarkMage619

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Amazed you continue to get away with this shit.
Aaron Paul He Cant Keep Getting Away With This GIF by Breaking Bad
 
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I personally prefer the MS solution honestly and do not mind paying extra for the convenience

That's good and glad to hear it's an approach fitting your use-case. As someone who's yet to commit to which system to get first though, it might be playing a bit more of a factor for me personally.

CF Express was probably the best option for a non-internal connector type that could house an NVMe SSD. It doesn't need to be adopted by the mass-market for Microsoft's needs since their SSD has a proprietary controller anyway.

The question really comes down to how quickly can/will the XSX expansion drive fall in price. If they can keep the price reasonably close to standard SSD prices then I don't think it will be that big of an issue long term. But if they prices stagnate while standard falls then cost could be factor for some, but for the vast majority, this isn't really a big deal in either case.

That highlights a potential problem: market costs will drop down proportional to rate of manufacture adoption. However, the vast majority of storage manufacturers out there in the consumer electronics space aren't interested in creating CF Express storage devices, so scales of production will remain small which impacts the production costs which will keep the costs for customers high relative to more standard m.2 SSDs.

This was always a concern but seeing it play out in real-time kind of sucks. Dunno what Seagate's profit margins are on these storage expansions but I'm certain their contract with Microsoft directly correlates to it; if Microsoft could lower the costs for that license then perhaps these cards will be able to lower in price more quickly for gamers looking to purchase them at more affordable MSRP.

Speaking of, it's just so odd that these are priced so high considering one of Microsoft's main marketing bullet points with Xbox and GamePass as a whole is in reducing the out-of-pocket costs for gamers. They have All-Access, they've been using the phrase "removing the friction" (i.e $$ cost of entry) for players via GP, etc. Even the custom controllers non-Elite wise are pretty solid in pricing. But the storage expansion cards are directly counter to that philosophy.

Maybe they're also part of the All-Access program, that would be a start.
 

prinz_valium

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The internal SSDs in Xbox Series Consoles are cheaper than market SSDs and sold at cost or just below. Microsoft could do the same for the expansion SSD, but they don't want to obviously.

We'll see if this ends like vita sd cards or not.
It already looks better.
But when these still go for 150, while regular ones go for 50, that's a real issue
 

GHG

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Just curious as to why the SSD expansion type would play a factor in deciding which system to pick?

For me personally I'd never buy something like a hard drive that I can't use elsewhere in any capacity.

I still have several old mechanical drives (both 5400rpm and 7200rpm), some are in enclosures as backup hard drives and others I use those for my plex server. When I'm done with my PS5 it's likely the drive I have in that will end up in my PC.

Storage drives are so versatile, I find it bizarre that we still have instances where companies will insist on enforcing single use proprietary data storage methods in this day and age.
 
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HeisenbergFX4

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For me personally I'd never buy something like a hard drive that I can't use elsewhere in any capacity.

I still have several old mechanical drives (both 5400rpm and 7200rpm), some are in enclosures as backup hard drives and others I use those for my plex server. When I'm done with my PS5 it's likely the drive I have in that well end up in my PC.

Storage drives are so versatile, I find it bizarre that we still have instances where companies will insist on enforcing single use proprietary data storage methods in this day and age.
Yeah I had dual 2 TB 980 Pros in my PC and I swiped one of those for my PS5 thought doubt it ever comes out of there again unless something fails.
 
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DragoonKain

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My external HDDs for my last gen consoles were both 8TB. 8TB expansions for PS5 and XSX you're gonna need to sell your car to afford it.
 

GHG

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Yeah I had dual 2 TB 980 Pros in my PC and I swiped one of those for my PS5 thought doubt it ever comes out of there again unless something fails.

Yep did exactly the same thing, just grabbed one out of my PC and will most likely get a 2TB to replace that one.
 
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kyliethicc

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CF Express was probably the best option for a non-internal connector type that could house an NVMe SSD. It doesn't need to be adopted by the mass-market for Microsoft's needs since their SSD has a proprietary controller anyway.

The question really comes down to how quickly can/will the XSX expansion drive fall in price. If they can keep the price reasonably close to standard SSD prices then I don't think it will be that big of an issue long term. But if they prices stagnate while standard falls then cost could be factor for some, but for the vast majority, this isn't really a big deal in either case.

Actually the Xbox SSDs, the internal and the expansion card, do not use proprietary flash controllers.

The internal is the WD SN530 with its stock San Disk controller.

The external is using a standard Phison controller.

Both controllers can be found in other SSDs available on the market for use in PCs.
 
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If I was MS, I'd get these SSDs as reasonably cheap as possible.

The point of SSD is speed. And the faster the speed, the more games people buy and play at Series S/X boosts. There's going to be many gamers who will slow down buying games if they have to keep hot swapping with their HDD or redownload a game to play it on SSD. And that means less game sales and less mtx.
 
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Sorcerer

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This is actually a positive, I don't think these things are selling well, so in about a year or so we might actually see a few stores get sick of bulked up shelves and get a semi-decent clearance sale on at least the 1TB model.
My local Best Buy claims to have these cards and elite controllers in stock, but they seem to refuse to put either out on the floor. I always thought Best Buy was one of those retail stores (besides Micro Center) that was never afraid to have things out for the consumer to pick up and take to the register themselves. UnlikeTarget who put everything under lock and key.
 
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