• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

Opinion Clickbait Naughty Dog made female characters less feminine to be trans friendly (No Spoilers)

IbizaPocholo

NeoGAFs Kent Brockman
Dec 1, 2014
27,690
30,339
1,335
ibiza
Naughty Dog/Sony are currently having a terrible week after a disgruntled employee leaked the entire game online, especially considering that the majority of folk hate the direction the new writers took the story, and now they are facing heat for what they’ve done to the female characters.

The Last of Us Part II leaks are reported to come from a disgruntled Naughty Dog employee over a payment dispute. A source connected to the studio explained that, although they believe the leak came from an employee, it may be about a little more than a pay dispute.

“I don’t doubt, even for a moment, that this leak came from the studio. The Last of Us Part 2 is very divisive and, as you can imagine, some of the team aren’t really thrilled to be working on the game,” the source told Erina Rose moments after the gameplay footage leaked.

The leak confirmed some extremely divisive and partisan plot devices and now many former fans are washing their hands of what are describing is a ‘clear political agenda’ being pushed by Neil Druckmann and the new writers at Naughty Dog.

Naughty Dog built their reputation upon the success of the Uncharted trilogy; one of the most critically acclaimed and fan loved gaming series of all time. The game owed a lot of its success to due Amy Hennig’s vision, direction and writing. Unfortunately Hennig was ‘forced out’ off Naughty Dog by Druckmann due to ‘creative disputes’.

Amy Hennig signed a strict NDA which barred her from discussing the real reason she was thrown out but that hasn’t stopped people from speculating that it might have for political reasons.

In an interview at the DICE summit in 2019 Amy Hennig confirmed that Nadine Ross was not in her version of Uncharted 4, and neither was the ambiguous relationship between her and Chloe Frazer.

The lesbian relationship between two female protagonists from Uncharted: The Lost Legacy wasn’t confirmed in the game, albeit strongly hinted at, but rather — in J.K. Rowling ‘after-the-fact’ fashion — in a Tweet from Naughty Dog in December, 2017.

It is also interesting to note that Amy Hennig’s departure from Naughty Dog happened shortly after the release of The Last of Us: Left Behind which featured the lesbian romance between two underage teen girls, Ellie and Riley (who are reportedly two of the main character’s in the upcoming HBO The Last of Us series).

These coincidences have lead people to believe that Hennig may not have entirely agreed with the whole ‘gender politics’ narrative and, ultimately, that was the reason she was fired.

The Naughty Dog source did confirm that there people who question the progressive narrative that Naughty Dog are injecting into their games are at high risk of losing their jobs:

“The team is very much divided on the game [The Last of Us Part II], and even voicing your concerns on its story will upset certain individuals; it usually results in said person being called closed-minded or even phobic, or some such nonsense. Some people literally have to bite their tongues or fear losing their jobs, even careers, to an outrage mob.”

It seems, though, that the inclusion of gay and lesbian characters in the last three Naughty Dog games was not enough to appease the activists who are reportedly working at Naughty Dog. The Last of Us Part II gameplay footage leak confirms that the plot has some extreme trans rights ideologies, too.

The characters in The Last of Us Part II are designed in such a way to not make trans people feel uncomfortable. Every single new character introduced in the sequel does not have definitive feminine or masculine qualities.

Ellie and Dina, specifically, have been remodelled to look less feminine. It even seems as if they Ellie has completely changed since they first revealed her in The Last of Us Part II.

We spoke to a seasoned artist who has worked as a character designer for several AAA games and he admitted that “this is the new norm.”

“It’s not really about the sexual objectification of women, ” he explained. “Women, like men, come in all shapes and sizes; to say that having big busty women is unrealistic is untrue.”

He added: “This is only true for trans people. A trans woman can’t naturally grow large breasts, and not all trans people can afford implants. If you see a game where the women are a little less curvy, it’s not to because the game designers are worried about receiving backlash for sexualising women, it’s because they are worried about offending the trans community.”

“From a design stand point, this is a really challenging problem. I’ve had many board meetings about how to tackle this. Trans people want ‘realistic’ representation in our games, but they feel excluded if they are represented as too masculine or too feminine. That’s why you will see a lot of designers ‘nerfing the female form’ so to speak so that the difference between trans women and cis women is a little less noticeable.”

That might explain exactly what happened to the cis female characters in The Last of Us Part II. It’s no secret that Naughty Dog are making the effort to be inclusive and progressive, this means they need to also be trans friendly.
 
Last edited:
Apr 25, 2012
1,157
2,167
960
Berlin, Germany
Going through hormone therapy is never easy. But after completing this enormous change Nora became successfull tv star Norman Reedus.
 

Terce

Member
Mar 14, 2018
224
368
390
Where are the disabled people in games? Amputees? Burn Victims? The actual people that the body positivity movement is supposed to be about? You know, the people that actually make up a significant percentage of the general population instead of pandering to what everyone accepts as one of the loudest vocal (minuscule) minorities
 

Blond

Formerly 'laser_printer'
Dec 10, 2019
2,547
4,336
600
Sactown
I will never really understand why these influences need to be implemented into already running franchises. If there's a demand for female protagonists / trans people in games / games centered around non-cis sexuality.... wouldn't a market develop naturally?

Am I insensitive here? :<

You aren't. But I once asked that same question here when there was an example of a trans lead in a new IP and it was called "virtue signaling"

So I feel like there's no winning here.
 
  • Love
  • Like
Reactions: sn0man and Devilich

Stuart360

Member
Sep 9, 2018
9,249
21,882
725
He added: “This is only true for trans people. A trans woman can’t naturally grow large breasts, and not all trans people can afford implants. If you see a game where the women are a little less curvy, it’s not to because the game designers are worried about receiving backlash for sexualising women, it’s because they are worried about offending the trans community.”
Jesus wept
 

Thirty7ven

Sony make cringe trainers.
Apr 13, 2020
3,820
15,107
660
Oh please, go the fucking gym and see. Check out a crossfit competition, etc

Women can be very muscular. These fucking snowflakes gets so triggered at the sight of physical strength in a woman, it's pathetic. You would think ND had modeled a woman after Dwayne Jonhson or something.

And if that's somehow the norm now, and "women no longer look like women" in games, put up or shut up. "Oh it's the norm now" Oh is it? Where?
 
Last edited:

Musky_Cheese

Banned
Oct 23, 2016
9,431
20,783
1,185
Assuming this is true, perhaps they should not allow a few trans people to act as King or Queen of all trans people??? Whether these few trans people are in studio or twitter.

Certain groups talk a lot about representation, but who exactly is getting represented? A very select few by the looks of it.

Perhaps if Dev teams had actual diversity in their ranks (both and background and thought) they wouldn’t constantly misrepresent all these groups they pretend to be the savior of.
 

SCB3

Member
Nov 24, 2014
1,919
1,838
700
I will never really understand why these influences need to be implemented into already running franchises. If there's a demand for female protagonists / trans people in games / games centered around non-cis sexuality.... wouldn't a market develop naturally?

Am I insensitive here? :<


Its the Black James Bond mentality, why create a new or Similar IP when we can force diversity into things that didn't need it
 

Lampiao

Member
Jan 5, 2020
119
328
280
I feel that games are becoming tools of ideologies, politics and polarization, a process that TV and Cinema are already going through. I miss when it was all just game and fun.
It seems that soon I will be a player of old games and I will move away from current games.
 
Aug 28, 2019
8,239
12,004
840
I feel that games are becoming tools of ideologies, politics and polarization, a process that TV and Cinema are already going through. I miss when it was all just game and fun.
It seems that soon I will be a player of old games and I will move away from current games.

In what way was the first TLOU game just about having fun?
 

DaMonsta

Member
Jan 10, 2020
532
637
305
This is reaching.

Every since it was revealed Elle was lesbian people having been pushing this narrative that ND is trying to make political statements with the game.

If there was a zombie apocalypse there wouldn’t be much “sexuality” in the way were are used to seeing female characters in a game. We have been conditioned for our female characters to ooze sexuality. It makes sense that there shouldn’t be any characters like that in the game.

I think the people beating this “Naughty Dog SJW” drum are only exposing yourselves.
 

#Phonepunk#

Banned
Sep 4, 2018
18,541
36,199
885
40
that person is ugly as fuck. not "ugly for a women" or even "ugly for a man" just an ugly looking person. lol this the new lead?

was thinking about finally playing through the first. but after hearing what happens to the leads, why waste my time?
 
Mar 18, 2018
4,241
4,986
570
You aren't. But I once asked that same question here when there was an example of a trans lead in a new IP and it was called "virtue signaling"

So I feel like there's no winning here.
Typically a character in a video games doesn’t need these things attached to them like sexuality, gender identity etc.

Typically in a story based game you’ll see depression, drunkenness, addiction and the like to show a state of being.

Because a lot of overly zealous people have poinsoned the well through insane talking points and intolerance towards those who don’t dance to their demands. So because sexuality isn’t normally attributed to state of being like depression when people want to show that they get lumped in with the well poisoners.

So blame the messengers of identity politics before the gamers imo. If they never had made the demand people could practice their craft in peace organically.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Painskiller

chilleverest

Member
Jan 11, 2018
440
910
440
Nathan drake getting his ass handed by a muscular woman.

Nora, another character overly muscular.

Brown guy getting ass handed in lost legacy.

But they want a realistic looking transsexual tan ten ten.

This realistic bullshit by ND.

I have been training 10 years of bodybuilding/mma and no woman has ever come close to the strength of the weakest man ive seen in the gym.

This realistic propaganda bullcrap by ND is just another shit propaganda. They contradict themselves its not even funny.
 
Last edited:

#Phonepunk#

Banned
Sep 4, 2018
18,541
36,199
885
40
If there was a zombie apocalypse there wouldn’t be much “sexuality” in the way were are used to seeing female characters in a game. We have been conditioned for our female characters to ooze sexuality.
Ellie wasn't exactly sexualized. nor was Joe. did the first game have any of that? in all the years of praise i never heard anyone claim TLOU "oozed sexuality"

lol where are you getting that from?

feels more like a convenient strawman for you to browbeat people with. i never heard anyone praising TLOU for being a sexy game.
 
Last edited:

zombrex

Member
Mar 8, 2018
323
456
340
Naughty dog back to blowing their own horns.
All the PR for their games is look how woke, progressive, and awesome we are.
Also the idea that making female characters less feminine is somehow trans positive is absurd and flawed. By the same logic they may as well give all female characters penises.
 

DaMonsta

Member
Jan 10, 2020
532
637
305
Ellie wasn't exactly sexualized. nor was Joe. did the first game have any of that?
Any of what?

you said a zombie apocalypse doesn't have much sex in it. well the first game didn't either, did it? and people liked that.
I didn’t say no sex. I said people wouldn’t spend their time and energy on trying to look sexy

feels more like a convenient strawman for you to browbeat people with. i never heard anyone praising TLOU for being a sexy game.
I didn’t say this either.
 
Last edited:

DaMonsta

Member
Jan 10, 2020
532
637
305
Nathan drake getting his ass handed by a muscular BLACK woman.

Nora, another character overly muscular.

Brown guy getting ass handed in lost legacy.

But they want a realistic looking transsexual tan ten ten.

This realistic bullshit by ND.

I have been training 10 years of bodybuilding/mma and no women has even come close to the strength of the weakest men ive seen in the gym.

This realistic propaganda bullcrap by ND is just another shit propaganda. They contradict themselves its not even funny.
“How dare they put black people and strong women in my games”

Lol, do y’all hear yourselves?
 
Last edited:

Gamernyc78

Banned
Jun 11, 2018
5,805
15,305
655
Assuming this is true, perhaps they should not allow a few trans people to act as King or Queen of all trans people??? Whether these few trans people are in studio or twitter.

Certain groups talk a lot about representation, but who exactly is getting represented? A very select few by the looks of it.

Perhaps if Dev teams had actual diversity in their ranks (both and background and thought) they wouldn’t constantly misrepresent all these groups they pretend to be the savior of.

Seriously its ok to have characters tht look like tht as long as you don't alter reality and make it seem like all are fucking butches. There are alot more sensual,feminine, sexy looking women than what thy are representing. It's just disgusting pandering to a select group. We know what time it is foh. Nobody would have a problem if it didnt feel force fed or there was a good balance.
 

chilleverest

Member
Jan 11, 2018
440
910
440
“How dare they put black people and strong women in my games”

Lol, do y’all hear yourselves?
Exactly. How dare they add Black
or any women that can beat a healthy man like Nathan drake like its nothing. Heck, Im sure Holly holm would have beaten Mayweather's ass if that boxing match ever came to fruition.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Shady_PL

ThatGamingDude

I am a virgin
Aug 30, 2018
2,173
2,693
695
If there was a zombie apocalypse there wouldn’t be much “sexuality” in the way were are used to seeing female characters in a game. We have been conditioned for our female characters to ooze sexuality. It makes sense that there shouldn’t be any characters like that in the game.
Yes, I would say a lot of things that are fictitious in nature probably wouldn't meet the scrutiny of reality

It's weird that women could just be ya know, gifted genetically through evolution and would have some tig bitties or a donk with a thin waist
Apparently a real life zombie apocalypse, in an incredibly exponential and most likely destructive way, would mutate genes enough to where men and women don't have different hip/waist sizes
Cause women don't need that type of thing to you know, push a baby out their cooter.

I think the people beating this “Naughty Dog SJW” drum are only exposing yourselves.
 

DaMonsta

Member
Jan 10, 2020
532
637
305
Exactly. How dare they add Black
or any women that can beat a healthy man like Nathan drake like its nothing. Heck, Im sure Holly holm would have beaten Mayweather's ass if that boxing match ever came to fruition.
Drake ain’t Mayweather.
 

KOMANI

KOMANI
Nov 5, 2013
3,774
1,485
845
New York
I mean, why do you think Raiden was so androgynous? To appeal to everyone. It’s a nice gesture, but it really comes down to how many products can we sell off of the shelves.
 

DaMonsta

Member
Jan 10, 2020
532
637
305
Yes, I would say a lot of things that are fictitious in nature probably wouldn't meet the scrutiny of reality

It's weird that women could just be ya know, gifted genetically through evolution and would have some tig bitties or a donk with a thin waist
Apparently a real life zombie apocalypse, in an incredibly exponential and most likely destructive way, would mutate genes enough to where men and women don't have different hip/waist sizes
Cause women don't need that type of thing to you know, push a baby out their cooter.


Women just rolling out of bed and having a sexy body is an absolute rarity.

Interestingly they’d be pandering to a certain crowd by forcing that stuff into the game.

You’ve gotten so used to being pandered to, that when it doesn’t happen you think there’s some effort to pander to someone else.
 

Jayjayhd34

Member
Oct 22, 2018
888
552
320
Wouldn't that be insult to trans woman though ? ''lets make all girls less attractive so we don't offend trans woman'' however trans woman want to be a woman not something people would consider a man. Say you gave a large group of of people who want to be woman a million pounds how many are going to try and look like that ?

I'm not expert here and my opinion to the trans community is probably considered transphobic this why tend stay away topic really.
 

vpance

Member
Jun 20, 2005
8,921
3,233
1,650
Where are the disabled people in games? Amputees? Burn Victims? The actual people that the body positivity movement is supposed to be about? You know, the people that actually make up a significant percentage of the general population instead of pandering to what everyone accepts as one of the loudest vocal (minuscule) minorities

Too bothered being disabled to make noise about it on twitter.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bellome

DaMonsta

Member
Jan 10, 2020
532
637
305
Hence, proving my point. Its not realistic as naughty dog make it out to be.
None of it is realistic. Dude jumps out of exploding trains, fights spirits and gets shot 2000 times per adventure. But the one thing that sticks out as unrealistic to you is a strong black woman. Lol
 
  • Like
Reactions: brandoman

TheStruggler

Report me for trolling ND/TLoU2 threads
Apr 28, 2014
8,838
1,452
940
Nathan drake getting his ass handed by a muscular BLACK woman.

Nora, another character overly muscular.

Brown guy getting ass handed in lost legacy.

But they want a realistic looking transsexual tan ten ten.

This realistic bullshit by ND.

I have been training 10 years of bodybuilding/mma and no women has even come close to the strength of the weakest men ive seen in the gym.

This realistic propaganda bullcrap by ND is just another shit propaganda. They contradict themselves its not even funny.
Wasnt Nadine trained military wise etc? Nathan and his bro were just you average guys. Thats like going up against a woman trained in UFC fighting your average joe. Other than the guy having maybe more weight on him its possible she could clown hos ass because she has training to fight that way and better. Now if a giy was trained as well totally different story.
 

Thirty7ven

Sony make cringe trainers.
Apr 13, 2020
3,820
15,107
660
Hence, proving my point. Its not realistic as naughty dog make it out to be.

Drake got his ass handed by a soldier. And it was awesome man come on.

In lost legacy it was two on one.


This game screams of ND trying real hard to win an 'Oscar' (or whatever is gaming equivalent). :messenger_poop:

They already did before. Haters gonna hate.
 
Last edited:

B-universe

Banned
Mar 23, 2020
1,511
3,317
480
This is reaching.

Every since it was revealed Elle was lesbian people having been pushing this narrative that ND is trying to make political statements with the game.

There's a video making the rounds where Neil proclaims exactly that. His own words aren't enough for you, is that it?

It's his game. He has every right to direct it as he sees fit. If he wants to turn the IP into a vehicle for promoting his worldview, so be it. But others also have the right to find it wonderful, distasteful or anything in between.

If there was a zombie apocalypse there wouldn’t be much “sexuality” in the way were are used to seeing female characters in a game.

Sexuality is not under full rational control and in fact, it could be argued, the market for traditional signs of femininity, which communicate fertility, would be just as big, if not bigger.

Evolutionary pressures play out over extended periods of time. Not overnight.

We have been conditioned for our female characters to ooze sexuality. It makes sense that there shouldn’t be any characters like that in the game.

Evidence is needed for the assertion sexuality is a social construct

I think the people beating this “Naughty Dog SJW” drum are only exposing yourselves.


As what? Exposing themselves as what?
Don't be shy. Spell it out.

The political center needs to assert itself and start telling the fringe loons to STFU.

All these "hard" left/right types are doing is creating noise and sowing division. They have nothing to offer.

"Need to (,,,) start telling the fringe loons to STFU".

Yes, you're very tolerant and democratic. You clearly don't belong to any authoritarian fringe.
 
Last edited:

ThatGamingDude

I am a virgin
Aug 30, 2018
2,173
2,693
695
Women just rolling out of bed and having a sexy body is an absolute rarity.
You'd be surprised that beauty is in the eye of the beholder; every person that gets out of bed is beautiful
I don't see a big person and think "Man that's so disgusting and fat," I see "DAMN THAT THICC! ROCK THAT SHIT!"

Shit one of my best friends is into thicc thicc girls; I myself am into thicc girls. I want a girl who eats, and I can cook for, and will make sure my kids are fed, and will fuck some shit up if something threatens any of us physically.

Would you be shocked that I've dated girls who are sticks as well? Would you be shocked that my buddy who's into petite women is currently shacked up with a chick with a phat ass?

It speaks to how you think if you see someone as "Ugly," or "Not as palatable to that persons ideals," when they roll out of bed. If you wanted to be office friendly, and cuddly and nice, you would say something like "Oh, I know that person is attractive, just not my type of attractive"

Interestingly they’d be pandering to a certain crowd by forcing that stuff into the game.
Yes, that is how marketing works, by appealing to your senses and what you like. It makes the product appealing.
As a species, our main existence is to perpetuate our species.
And I would argue it's intolerant of you to be against them pandering to my sexuality; it's something I want.
You’ve gotten so used to being pandered to, that when it doesn’t happen you think there’s some effort to pander to someone else.
What if I told you that I don't work in video games, but my work often has me make decisions that pander to people?
I AM YOUR DEVIL!