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[Panajev2001a]

enlarged...

But Microsoft could cut consumer prices on that detachable hard-drive -- where prices have been dropping rapidly -- if Sony's PS3 price comes in lower than the high-end Xbox 360.

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/New...22_RTRIDST_0_TECH-MEDIA-MICROSOFT-XBOX-DC.XML

Spoiler

The funny thing is that in about 1-1.5 hours I will have one on pre-order. No, I am not drunk... just a consumer electronics whore deep into consummerism trends ? . (at least there is enough time between the two system's launches [Xbox 360 and PLAYSTATION 3] to save up for both... and ugh... please Nintendo price Revolution to be affordable ).
Oh well, at least I will be able to launch a DCharlie style bitching once they drop the price and actually being pissed. EDIT #1: it will have to be tomorrow afternoon as the store is closing and I am too far to get to it by bus on time... appropriate scan of the pre-order and the money put down for it will be posted here later that evening . EDIT #2: thansk to my brother who drove me there I got to the shop before it closed for the night ^_^.

 

[PhatSaqs]

Early adopters of anything always get screwed.

This is nothing new.

 

[sonycowboy]

But Microsoft could cut consumer prices on that detachable hard-drive -- where prices have been dropping rapidly -- if Sony's PS3 price comes in lower than the high-end Xbox 360.

Given that the HDD @ $99 is horribly, horribly overpriced, I'd say that dropping the price next year should be easy.

 

[raYne]

Prices fall over time? omgwtf?!

 

[open_mouth_]

Early adopters of anything always get screwed.

This is nothing new.

but it's questionable if they're getting "screwed" because that premium they play gives them that extra time early in the system's life to play it rather than wait.

 

[Ghost]

HDD wont drop that much, I doubt MS will ever be able to produce them for under $50.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Prices fall over time? omgwtf?!

True, I had this realization as well, but before that I must hurry to patent this amazing discovery (psst... salt affects the taste of water... a method of food taste enrichment based on simple modification of basic minerals... it will revolutionize spaghetti making forever).

 

[DarienA]

Can someone explain to me why prices can fall on this detachable HD... but the internal HD of the original Xbox was cited as something thats cost didn't/couldn't/wouldn't fall?

 

[sonycowboy]

Can someone explain to me why prices can fall on this detachable HD... but the internal HD of the original Xbox was cited as something thats cost didn't/couldn't/wouldn't fall?

Look at my post. $99 is way, way too high of a price. It's there to validate the price of the premium pack being $100 and because the initial hardcore buyers will pay any price.

It doesn't cost them anywhere near $100 to produce.

 

[Jonnyram]

Pana, that's one hell of a spoiler

 

[Tarazet]

Can someone explain to me why prices can fall on this detachable HD... but the internal HD of the original Xbox was cited as something thats cost didn't/couldn't/wouldn't fall?

HD price for the original Xbox was locked in under contract. The supplier could cut production costs all they wanted, but Microsoft would still pay the same. Now they're developing it in-house IIRC.

 

[LuCkymoON]

Can someone explain to me why prices can fall on this detachable HD... but the internal HD of the original Xbox was cited as something thats cost didn't/couldn't/wouldn't fall?

Flat Fee contract?

 

[Link316]

Can someone explain to me why prices can fall on this detachable HD... but the internal HD of the original Xbox was cited as something thats cost didn't/couldn't/wouldn't fall?

cause they were lying?

 

[Panajev2001a]

Can someone explain to me why prices can fall on this detachable HD... but the internal HD of the original Xbox was cited as something thats cost didn't/couldn't/wouldn't fall?

The problem with the HDD is that the price lowers quite slowly and most of all it is influenced by production volume and it is a reduction of price per MB that comes with cheaper to manufacture higher capacity HDD's.

New and bigger HDD gets developed (lower price per GB than the previous model): price on older HDD's is lowered and this very often means a reduction in the profit margin of the HDD while the price drop of the older and smaller models is not usually greatly influenced by the technology which powers the new and more capient HDD (I do not think the yield of the platters of the HDD's is a problem so the new technology that lets you put more storage space inside the same 3.5'' HDD does not reduce much the cost of HDD's with low capacity storage)

The other problem with Xbox's components were that in the end due to the lo production volume and to the fact most companies moved to far more capient/advanced products Microsoft had to have produced for them Xbox's components (Intel produced the 733 MHz Pentium III you find in the Xbox for Microsoft alone).

 

[DarienA]

OF the answers given..

HD price for the original Xbox was locked in under contract. The supplier could cut production costs all they wanted, but Microsoft would still pay the same. Now they're developing it in-house IIRC.

MS is making the actual hard drives in house? I find that REALLY hard to believe...

Flat Fee contract?

Possible... although I can't see why MS couldn't attempt to renegotiate like they did with their graphic chip provider.

cause they were lying?

Winnah! Just kidding.. possible the most probably explanation IMO.

EDIT:

The problem with the HDD is that the price lowers quite slowly and most of all it is influenced by production volume and it is a reduction of price per MB that comes with cheaper to manufacture higher capacity HDD's.

Ok so why is that not being touted as a problem this coming generation?

New and bigger HDD gets developed (lower price per GB than the previous model): price on older HDD's is lowered and this very often means a reduction in the profit margin of the HDD while the price drop of the older and smaller models is not usually greatly influenced by the technology which powers the new and more capient HDD (I do not think the yield of the platters of the HDD's is a problem so the new technology that lets you put more storage space inside the same 3.5'' HDD does not reduce much the cost of HDD's with low capacity storage)

Explain this to me again as if I have no idea what the hell you're talking about. Everytime I tried to read this paragraph my eyes started watering over...


EDIT 2:

Whoops sorry SC... I know though that the actual HD doesn't cost $100 to make.

 

[Panajev2001a]

HD price for the original Xbox was locked in under contract. The supplier could cut production costs all they wanted, but Microsoft would still pay the same. Now they're developing it in-house IIRC.

No, they are still buying it... from Seagate... they probably changed the terms of the contract and have a big list of suppliers they could change to if Seagate does not reduce the price over time a bit more.

Still, if they do no sell in high enough volumes they will find very few manufacturers willing to still produce 20 GB 2.5'' HDD a few years from now, but I do not expect the Xbox 360 to have such low sales.

 

[sonycowboy]

OF the answers given..

am I invisible

 

[PhatSaqs]

but it's questionable if they're getting "screwed" because that premium they play gives them that extra time early in the system's life to play it rather than wait.

True enough.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Pana, that's one hell of a spoiler

It is all D.C.'s fault... I tell you . He must have given me a bit of his fever-to-buy-all-that-is-new-to-make-your-living-room-go-where-no-CE-product-as-gone-before.

The problem is that not only that added to my already new-tech whoredom, but he forgot to give me his high-salary-Aspirine .

 

[Panajev2001a]

Ok so why is that not being touted as a problem this coming generation?

Because if they really did not want it anymore they could say... screw it, get the memory card we won't sell any more HDD's, here are new 128 MB/256 MB/512 MB/... Memory Cards and fuck the HDD.

I do not think their sales will be that low to jsutify that extreme measure, but they are ready to do such a thing, i.e. they would be able to negotiate better contracts.

Also, it did not stop them from lowering Xbox 1's price: including elements such as HDD's in a console means that if you want to lower the price too fast that you might have to eat into your profits.

 

[DarienA]

Because if they really did not want it anymore they could say... screw it, get the memory card we won't sell any more HDD's, here are new 128 MB/256 MB/512 MB/... Memory Cards and fuck the HDD.

I do not think their sales will be that low to jsutify that extreme measure, but they are ready to do such a thing, i.e. they would be able to negotiate better contracts.

That line of reasoning does go along with an interview where something along the lines of the HDD may not always be around was mentioned... can't remember the exact quote.

Also, it did not stop them from lowering Xbox 1's price: including elements such as HDD's in a console means that if you want to lower the price too fast that you might have to eat into your profits.

I didn't say it stopped them, I simply said it was cite as a reason as to why lowering the price of the Xbox bothered them.

Under a microscope yeah they might have to eat the profits... the funny thing is I don't think the Xbox was even close to the largest loss leader that they currently or have ever had... but I could be wrong.

 

[Xellotah]

Prices fall over time? omgwtf?!

That depends on how soon and how big the price cut is.... if its a 25% drop within 1 month ( ala XBox 1 in the UK ) then it definitely will be omgwtf?

 

[number386]

Early adopters usually pay a premium price, it is not a occurance regulated to gaming but electronics in general, I will say this though.

One year after xbox launched in the US, MS dropped the price by a $100 and included the holiday pack with 2 free games (JSRF/Sega GT). And in Europe about a month after xbox's launch due to poor sales they dropped the price. :lol Although they gave a couple of games to the early adopters. I'll get a 360 when halo 3 is released, or if they have a nice holiday bundle pack.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

Hence another facet into the many reasons I will be trying to put off my Xbox 360 purchase as long as possible.

 

[raYne]

Hence another facet into the many reasons I will be trying to put off my Xbox 360 purchase as long as possible.

We know.. you cancelled your pre-order. You don't have to reiterate the fact in every thread.

 

[Oni Jazar]

Prices fall over time? omgwtf?!

How long did it take for the PS2 to drop in price? When will the PSP drop in price?

 

[Wario64]

PS2 dropped like a year and a half after launch, at E3. i think xbox and gamecube dropped too, which were only out for about 6-7 months

 

[Oni Jazar]

When something electronic takes a year and a half to drop in price, that's a pretty good early purchase.

When something drops 33% (+ free games) in around 6-8 months that's a bad early purchase.

I'm sorry I'm still a little miffed that I got an Xbox when JSRF came out ($350 total ouch)

 

[tedtropy]

Bill: So we've determined that the HD separate will be $99 and...
Conan: NINJA SNEAK ATTACK!111

 

[∀ Narayan]

HDD wont drop that much, I doubt MS will ever be able to produce them for under $50.

Are you kidding? In this day and age - for hard-drives - it's pretty much a dollar a gig.

 

[Maleficent]

Please find me a 20GB 2.5" HD for $20. I need one bad.
Thanks

 

[DarienA]

Are you kidding? In this day and age - for hard-drives - it's pretty much a dollar a gig.

Not for SATA drives it isn't yet....

 

[tedtropy]

Not for SATA drives it isn't yet....

And certainly not for 2.5" laptop drives.

 

[Panajev2001a]

 

[HokieJoe]

And it's Panajev for the win with a 360 preorder!

 

[HokieJoe]

Are you kidding? In this day and age - for hard-drives - it's pretty much a dollar a gig.

I just built a computer for a friend whose rig was hit by lightning. There was like a $2 difference in price between a 40GB 7200 rpm drive vs. an 80GB 7200rpm drive.

Or see here for yourself:

Western Digital Caviar WD400BB 40GB 7200 RPM 2MB Cache IDE Ultra ATA100 Hard Drive - OEM


Western Digital Caviar WD800BB 80GB 7200 RPM 2MB Cache IDE Ultra ATA100 Hard Drive – OEM


As others have mentioned, 2.5" SATA drives are not cheap. At least at this point they aren't.

 

[Ghost]

Are you kidding? In this day and age - for hard-drives - it's pretty much a dollar a gig.

It works out at a dollar a gig, thats because the extra hardware of an extra gigabyte of storage room are virtually nothing. The problem is no matter how small you make the storage space you still have to buy all the base components every hard drive needs that cost much much more than $1. Thats why the Xbox hard drive is still a $50 anchor on the Xbox price (and it's only 8 gig dont forget), and why they'll never make money from selling it.

 

[Panajev2001a]

And it's Panajev for the win with a 360 preorder!

Well, well... not like "win"/jumped the fence/etc... my face is still...

like this:

Once again... tech rules!

Spoiler

Bring on PLAYSTATION 3 (cannot wait for SCE's newest jewel ^_^, in due time I'll pre-order it as well) and Revolution so that I find creative ways to pour money into them... sigh, 2005 and 2006 will not be good for my wallet... oh well it might help me to work harder and save more money ... good thing in Europe there is a good 1 year gap between the launch of the two consoles (I really think we won't see it in Europe in good numbers before Winter 2006).

 

[HokieJoe]

Well, well... not like win"... my face is still...

like this:

Once again...

:lol

I kinda' figured that. I was just ribbing you a bit.

 

[ChrisReid]

That depends on how soon and how big the price cut is.... if its a 25% drop within 1 month ( ala XBox 1 in the UK ) then it definitely will be omgwtf?

It was 33% in six months in the US, but it really depends how much you use it. I definitely got my money's worth by having it at launch (more angry about the dud Thomson drives that were so numerous). In comparison, the $20 drop for the DS after 10 months was a bigger bummer, because I didn't play it more than an hour until Nintendogs/Advance Wars came out.

 

[Synth_floyd]

$400 is a bit much but once they drop the price and a few more good games come out i'll definately pick one up.

 

[Panajev2001a]

:lol

I kinda' figured that. I was just ribbing you a bit.

:lol, well rub it in, rub it in . I wonder if you can guess the three things that sold it to me... .

I will give you a hint, two are games (both are LARGE, one is Alive and one is aLIVE) and one is a non-game actually .

 

[Seth C]

The cheapest 2.5 inch SATA drive on Pricewatch is $75, but that is for a 40GB drive. Then you have to add the external enclosure.

 

[Wolffen]

One other thing about the 360 drive: Seagate is making a super quiet drive, and it's supposed to have a very low power consumption as well. Once you add in the custom enclosure, the 2.5" SATA drive, and the tweaked features (low power use/quiet), the drive is probably a decent chunk to manufacture. Like Ghost said, MS will probably never get the drive for much lower than $50.

 

[bill0527]

Early adopters of anything always get screwed.

This is nothing new.

qft.

At least with Xbox 360 vs. PS2, you may only be getting screwed out of less than $100 or so if you're an early adopter and price cuts happen pretty quickly.

I'm not gonna cry a river for you because I was an early adopter of HDTV in January 2003. I bought a 48" Widescreen Mitsubishi and paid $2200 for it. Now its obselete because the TV was manufactured before 720p was even broadcasting so it won't do anything with a 720p signal. It has no DVI inputs or HDMI inputs obviously because they only started showing up on TVs in the last year and half - 2 years. So that means no next-generation hi-definition DVD for me, and no 720p content unless something has a scaler which will convert it to 1080i (which thankfully Xbox360 has).

So while you're pissing and moaning about getting screwed out of a paltry amount of money as an early adopter, just remember my example here about getting screwed on a $2200 TV almost 3 years ago.

 

[HokieJoe]

:lol, well rub it in, rub it in . I wonder if you can guess the three things that sold it to me... .

I will give you a hint, two are games (both are LARGE, one is Alive and one is aLIVE) and one is a non-game actually .

Geez, I don't know Panajev. Let's see, I'm guessing: 99 Nights, PGR3, and the Minter's Llamasoft visualizations.

I know, pretty weak.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Geez, I don't know Panajev. Let's see, I'm guessing: 99 Nights, PGR3, and the Minter's Llamasoft visualizations.

I know, pretty weak.

You got Minter's one, the others are Oblivion (I am a big Morrowind fan) and FFXI .

Well, yea yeah I had the PS2 version... but note... I had it when I still as in the U.S. .