Whoops, I hit the wrong button here. What I wanted to say is that most Saturn soccer games use fully polygon players. Sega's Worldwide Soccer series is a great example, as is Konami's J.League Striker, Silicon Dreams' World League Soccer 98, EA's FIFA 97/98 and Tecmo's J.League Go Go Goal--the latter even runs at 60fps, which is one heckuva shocker.
I agree. But I never played either.Small differences, but I prefer the art of the Japanese version.
No, its a custom engine created by a guy called "XL2".
By the way he created Sonic Z-Treme too.
Go Go looks and runs amazing, the ball just looks wrong mind and too big. WLS 98 looks and plays ace and it uses one of the higher Saturn res modes
What soccer game has the best graphics? WLS98 or WWS98?
Go Go Goal wasn't even released in the West. Another decision by Sega I don't really get tbh.
I like WLS more to look at overall but WWS 98 does feature better looking playersWhat soccer game has the best graphics? WLS98 or WWS98?
That's a bit of a lame cop out. Many of the games brought over the West from Japan weren't published by the one who made or published them in Japan.Go Go Goal was created by Tecmo. You'd have to ask them why they never brought this game to the States,
That's a bit of a lame cop out. Many of the games brought over the West from Japan weren't published by the one who made or published them in Japan.
SEGA America and Europe should have been much more proactive in bringing over the better games from Japan. It wasn't helped either by the tools at SEGA America picking a pointless fight with one of SEGA best supporters and that was Working Designs and to top it off we had that dreadful speech and 5-star plan, which meant people like Dave Perry also said BYE to SEGA.
SEGA America were utter muppets in the 32-Bit era
We do. Bernie didn't think SEGA should pay for Working Designs E3 both, which was what SEGA did for a number of years, so he cut the funding only to be ordered by Sega Japan to reinstate SEGA paying for WD E3 both space, but it was too late and WD said Bye Bye...Well, we don't really know what happened with Working Designs, so it's a bit unfair to speculate. There's no question that Victor Ireland and Bernie Stolar hated each other's guts, but you've only really heard from one side of that story. And you are aware that Ireland was trashing Saturn behind Sega's back during the early Saturn days, speaking off the record to the gaming (groupie) magazines about how awful the Saturn hardware was. The business world is full of large egos clashing with one another, and the videogame industry only doubly so.
Segaphiles really need to get over that 1997 E3 EGM interview. They're never going to forgive Stolar for that one, but the truth is that Saturn wasn't part of anybody's future by that point. I'm sorry, but them's the facts.
An unrealeased Sierra two discs game was "released" today:
This looks cool. How does it hold up gameplay-wise?
Wing Arms was pretty cool for September 95, less than one year after the console launch and just three months after the way more simpler Air/Ace Combat.
Small differences, but I prefer the art of the Japanese version.
Makes you wonder would there ever be a Saturn classic? After the success of the Genesis Mini....Sega has had the best part of 10-15 years to do it but never bothered...
Whats the story for it remaining unreleased till today? Are Sierra even around?
We do. Bernie didn't think SEGA should pay for Working Designs E3 both, which was what SEGA did for a number of years, so he cut the funding only to be ordered by Sega Japan to reinstate SEGA paying for WD E3 both space, but it was too late and WD said Bye Bye...
And I do tire of people using excuses about how the Saturn was awful or hard to develop on, such excuses went out the window with the PS2 and PS3. If was all about having good launch software for the USA being cheap and also easy to develop on. The Game Cube and Dreamcast would have cleaned up and the PS2 and PS3 sold like crap
To be a little fair to Bernie he was dealt a terrible hand and he did bring out RPG's. But his speech and stance of the Saturn was terrible and made what little Saturn support was there just leave SEGA.Nearly everything Bernie touched turned to shit. First the "no RPG or 2d game" rule while he was at Sony for the early PSX run, then euthanizing the Saturn when he joined Sega.
I almost forgot this one:
Lupin Sansei - Pyramid no Kenja
Never heard of this but I like the art design. What type of game is this?
Looks really good!
The game is patterned after Tomb Raider. With Zenigata hot on his trail, Lupin wanders around a pyramid looking for treasure and solving puzzles.
This looks cool. How does it hold up gameplay-wise?
"Developed by Coktel Vision and published by Sierra On-Line, it seems this PC port was basically finished and ready to go (minus a few bug fixes here and there), but was pulled at the last minute due to… reasons… (most likely Saturn’s poor market performance and an insufficient projected return on investment…)"
[UNRELEASED] Last Dynasty Dumped – NO APRIL FOOLS!
I don’t think anyone woke up this morning expecting any REAL news, however, that’s just what we got with the PUBLIC RELEASE of THE LAST DYNASTY, an all but complete but never released S…www.segasaturnshiro.com
Pretty much Ace Combat handling/controls/gameplay, it works great. Close areas, like canyons, fare a bit worse.This looks cool. How does it hold up gameplay-wise?
I almost forgot this one:
Lupin Sansei - Pyramid no Kenja
You could only use one CPU and the fact that two VDPs were there was because the console was built for both 2D and 3D, which was not the case of the PS1. Developers eventually made 2D engines on PS1 but it was not designed for it and they had to make an extra effort.They had five chips to do what PSX made with just two
Saturn architecture was the root of all problems of Sega Saturn: distribution, programming, third party support, port, localization.
People usually say Saturn was specifically designed around multiple processors, with 2 CPU in mind because the arcade heritage. In fact this is partially true, but only if we see it from another point of view.
The main problem was Sega was unable to engineering their own chip internally, so they needed to rely to other manufacturers for barely custom chips,
SONY also had to use outside manufacturers for the PSX; Its had to go to MIPS for the CPU and a little known fact it that Toshiba helped SONY with the PSX GPU. It's stilly to say this was an issue for SEGA when SEGA and Nintendo always had to rely on outside manufacturers to help them with Hardware. And yeah SEGA using multi GPU and CPU's in their coin ups was nothing new the Y board alone had 3 main 68000 CPU's
And most development kits were changed and revised back in those days and it's wrong to say the documentation was poor, one of the better things about SEGA then, was it would provide developers with full documentation, it was just their own tools was slow. If SEGA had got market share then all excuses like multi CPU's, expensive hardware and hard to develop on, go out the window as we saw with the PS2, PS3 and to a point the N64
The big mistake SEGA made was trying to hold on to the 16 bit market for too long and pushing ahead with the 32X. Which meant SEGA split its development base, its PR base and worse still its own fan base.
A terrible cock-up. Without the 32X SEGA would have had great launch software early and also would have been the 1st 32 bit console to have Doom and Fifa. Nice one.. Tom
I still think the 32X was a poor idea from the getgo and smelled like one from a million miles away.The 32X was definitely a disaster, but I do understand SoA's need (and it was their baby, despite the denials years later) to keep the 16-bit market alive. Gen-5 really didn't take off sales-wise until 1997. The top selling console in '95 was the Super Nintendo. And Donkey Kong Country really raised the bar for Gen-4, leaving the aging Genesis far behind. The console just couldn't compete on that level. And so a solution was needed to keep up, and unfortunately, that's where the problems began. The SVP used in Virtua Racing was powerful but far too expensive ($100, ouch) to be of any use, and the 32X was a $150 monstrosity that only confused and angered consumers and retailers alike.
Most of the criticisms laid against the Saturn hardware date to 1994 and 1995. By 1996, software developers had access to the Sega Graphics Library, which made things much easier for C language coders, and everyone had learned how to use the processors properly and employing the proper tricks like VDP2 planes for the ground.
I've been going through the multi-platform games and it's quite remarkable how quickly third party developers snapped into place. Most Saturn-PSX software titles in '96 and '97 are more or less identical, aside from the unique quirks of each platform. The impression at the time was that "everything's better on Playstation." That might have been the case in '95 with Toshinden, Hi-Octane, Destruction Derby, Lemmings 3D and Wipeout (although I do love Wipeout), but things had changed considerably the following two years. Unfortunately, the Saturn's collapse in the US marketplace stopped that progress cold, and so Playstation pulled decisively ahead in '98 and beyond.
It must be said that programmers love to complain. EVERY computer is a pain to work with, every console a struggle to master. They complained just as loudly about the N64, PS2 and PS3, but since those were established and stable platforms, the company bosses would demand that software be made there and coders simply put in the work. Heck, does anybody remember the enormous temper tantrums everyone had over the Nintendo Wii? Software devs were screaming like babies for five solid years and had to be dragged along, kicking and screaming.
The truth is that Sega, and Sega of America specifically, burned most of their bridges with their Napoleon attitude towards third-party publishers during the Genesis era. The software community was looking for an alternative to the draconian Nintendo, and when Sega became the kings of the playground, they ended up behaving just as badly. Suddenly, along comes Sony who promises the moon and stars, and more importantly, develops beneficial relationships with software publishers to aid and assist them as much as possible (hello, developers' conferences). It's no wonder why everybody was eager to jump ship to the new guys. Hey, it's Sony! These guys invented everything. We can work with them. Sega? Nintendo? Not so much.
The 32X was definitely a disaster, but I do understand SoA's need (and it was their baby, despite the denials years later) to keep the 16-bit market alive. Gen-5 really didn't take off sales-wise until 1997. The top selling console in '95 was the Super Nintendo. And Donkey Kong Country really raised the bar for Gen-4, leaving the aging Genesis far behind. The console just couldn't compete on that level. And so a solution was needed to keep up, and unfortunately, that's where the problems began. The SVP used in Virtua Racing was powerful but far too expensive ($100, ouch) to be of any use, and the 32X was a $150 monstrosity that only confused and angered consumers and retailers alike.
If Sega had a way to boost the Genesis hardware without jacking up software prices, that could have helped greatly. Once again, we see how Sega's sloppy finances and SoA's accumulating debt was becoming a serious long-term problem. Nintendo could add the FX chip to SNES cartridges and sell at normal prices, and Sony could just eat their PSX losses without breaking a sweat (heck, Microsoft lost billions on Xbox and it doesn't even count as a rounding error). Sega could not afford to do that. That left them with the prospect of 1) wildly expensive $100 carts that would tank at retail, and 2) a wildly confusing $150 add-on that would tank at retail and devastate their reputation for years to come. The only other option was, what? More Sonic sequels? More sports games? Hold off on releasing Saturn until '96? That's just not doable due to the situation with Sega in Japan. They can't afford to give Sony the Gen-5 market all to themselves for 18 months.
So...yeah. Sega was in a very bad situation, and there were no easy solutions. The only hope, as always, was that one or two software titles would break wide and become blockbuster hits. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, the kids just weren't interested and nothing could get their attention. Even the mighty VF2, Virtua Cop, Sega Rally and Panzer Dragoon couldn't crack 200,000 copies.
Ah, well. Isn't this the real reason why everybody loves the Beatles' White Album? Everybody loves the chaos and melodrama.
This video is more accurate:What a shit video. This looks like a summary of all the most stupid and unproven things you can find about the console. This kind of video is perfect to fuel the ignorance of people about the console.
The guy said SEGA added a second CPU and GPU in their console on response to the PS1, which is obviously wrong. Both VDPs were necessarily there from the beginning, otherwise we would have had a console that would either do : foreground, or backgrounds. Let's be real for a sec.
Doom does not run at a lower resolution on Saturn, it actually runs at a higher resolution. Another wrong info.
Talks about Castlevania, but does not talk about the shortcomings of this version that was not well handled by the port team.
Transparency is perfectly doable on the Saturn, most devs took the lazy way out that's all.
I still think the 32X was a poor idea from the getgo and smelled like one from a million miles away.
The SVP chip was expensive, but for a handful of games, it would've been a better solution than an entirely new system. They could've also released a stand-alone cartridge with the tech of the SVP chip inside. That way they could've sold the games separately at a normal price.
Either way, I don't think Genesis really needed all of that. It was still doing decent and got supported by third-party devs. Vectorman wasn't as good-looking as Donkey Kong Country, but still very good regardless, and with the Saturn soon to be released the energy should've gone to that.
Many also forget about the Sega Nomad. A handheld that ate batteries and was very clunky. Instead of fixing the issues with the Gamegear, they made a system with an even shorter battery life and an even worse form factor. The Nomad isn't all bad, but it needed a few more years in my opinion. A new Gamegear model would've been a better solution in 1995.
Talk about a console that aged like fine wine. Having a blast discovering its gems.
What a shit video. This looks like a summary of all the most stupid and unproven things you can find about the console. This kind of video is perfect to fuel the ignorance of people about the console.
The guy said SEGA added a second CPU and GPU in their console on response to the PS1, which is obviously wrong. Both VDPs were necessarily there from the beginning, otherwise we would have had a console that would either do : foreground, or backgrounds. Let's be real for a sec.
Which would the normal price for a game. People who weren't ready yet to move over to the Saturn would've seen that as a far more attractive solution than the 32X. And it's not like they needed an entire console library of games here. The SNES had less than 10 games with the Super FX chip and Vectorman showed that they could still squeeze a lot out of the Genesis. That would've been enough to compete with Donkey Kong County and the Super FX chip.A SVP add on would have only cost like $50.
One other thing is that SoA prematurely ended the Genesis' life cycle. Titles like Monster World IV were never localized.
And if this wasn't enough, SEGA still supported lots of product lines who sold poorly: MD (1996) MCD (1996), 32X (1996), GG (1197), Nomad (1999), CDX (119?) and they even wanted to release further hardware like Neptune.
Guys, lets return to the Thread "subject"
Such a pity, because I am discovering a lot of new impressive games here. Please guys, lets continue!Curse of any Saturn topic, Self-appointed Sega historians come in and and vomit walls of text in every topic like this.
Make a best of Playstation 3D and you don't get the history of the Playstation and Sony of the time by diehard "Fans", just great game recommendations.