Tekken 7 is definitely a success, but besides Tekken 3D fighters are essentially dead. I’m pretty sure I even heard Harada-san say that 3D fighters are dead. Barely anyone to my knowledge comes out with them anymore. Maybe everyone makes 2D fighters only because they are easier or cheaper to produce or something?Tekken 7 has sold over 7 million, it is estimated to surpass Tekken 3 which was the best selling Tekken game so far.
If I use this same logic for The NES and "saving" the industry, I'd be swarmed including likely by you, despite new game companies, new releases, and consoles still being sold before late 1986. So games were still around.Fighting games will always come and go. Genres do tend to have revivals and down periods.
Yes Mortal Kombat kept 3D fighting games going at a time when there wasn't that many but it didn't " save " anything.
Fighting games will always be around in some form or another.
Am I'm not sure what to tell you, everything in my post is a fact. Take it whatever way you want.If I use this same logic for The NES and "saving" the industry, I'd be swarmed including likely by you, despite new game companies, new releases, and consoles still being sold before late 1986. So games were still around.
Woah! …. Woah! OP spoiler tag cmon.But then Mortal Kombat comes in, after a mixed reception but still well selling MK4, Mortal Kombat had a refresh with Deadly Alliance, a game that shook up the gaming kommunity and one of the first major game franchises to to kill off it's long running protagonist, at the start of the game. Everything was new from the mechanics, the design goals, the content, the technology, it wowed everyone.
You can’t discount the frontloaded novelties of a DOA game.Also I guess despite the frontloaded launch novelty, Dead or Alive 3 could technically also count for a very short time frame.
I loved the massive single player but I found the focus on stances annoying and ultimately I remember the franchise as more a hinderance. I get from a sales perspective they might seem like saviors of the genre….Mortal Kombat Deception is the most popular of the 3 major MK fighting games during this time, with it having the best balance and mechanical gameplay of the 3, online play, and a massive SP adventure/fighting hybrid campaign that may still have the most kontent of any fighting game in existence with all the bonuses and goodies you can find in the crypt and the overworld during the SP adventure.
But I think that Tekken and VF4 carried the 3D fighter genre just fine. The time period we are talking about before the 360/PS3 and after the DC is only 5 years OP. As quoted above the PS2 specifically had some Japanese exclusives on lock and still did modestly well.Tekken 5 was PS2 exclusive and sold 6 million copies. Tekken Tag sold 2.3 million copies. Tekken 4 sold 2 million copies. MK was multiplatform and judging by your figures, none of them outsold Tekken 5 on their own. Tekken was in no way struggling. Virtua Fighter 4 was PS2 exclusive and sold 1.5 million copies. I'm not knocking MK.
Me too. This is exactly my time between Dreamcast and DOA4 on 360. I loved me some TK and VF for gaming with friends and I grinded out MK with its terrible straight to VHS story and convoluted stances just for the content ant unlocks. If nothing else MK should be lauded for its experimentation into single player and variety.I also had a shit ton of fun playing DA and Deception. DA in particular, I loved unlocking all the shit in the Krypt. So I guess you can say I enjoyed MK for the single player content and games like Tekken and SF were more for MP sessions with friends.
What I find funny is people keep saying this yet the 3D MK games are what saved MK in the first place, MK4 did well initially for obvious reasons like 2.5D and such, coming off Trilogy, but that died off. MK Deadly Alliance literally restored the franchise, before MK9 it was the third best selling Mortal Kombat game. Sold 2 million in just a couple months and later sold 3.5 million. Was a big deal at the time.The first 3D MK was THE shit back in the days within PC crowd, since there wasn't much variety of fighting games on the platform, but on consoles everyone was still playing mostly either Tekken or Soul Calibur. And after MK4 the series basically vanished for a looong time, until successful return on PS3/X360 in 2011, so I wouldn't say it saved the genre when it barely saved itself...
VF4's popularity in any JP arcade was about as big as Street Fighter 2. Tekken 5+6 carried the torch when VF5 was popular but not as gigantic as 4. Guilty Gear and other "airdashers" were also rising in prominenceDuring that era it's all about the arcade scene for fighting games in Japan, the Gundam vs series was also very popular and arcades were all packed full back then.
Wtf? Some of the Dreamcast library (many of them also available on PS1 or mostly PS2 and similar):
Marvel vs Capcom 2
Street Fighter III W Impact & 3rd Strike
Capcom vs SNK 1, Pro and 2
Jojo's Bizarre Adventure
Power Stone 1 & 2
Soul Calibur 2
Dead or Alive 2
Virtua Fighter 3
Guilty Gear X
Fatal Fury Mark of the Wolves
The Last Blade 2
KOF 98, 99, 2000
Could you please share any reliable source to back your statements about these MK games being major sellers?And none of those were major sellers which was the point of this thread. If it wasn't for MK and Tekken it would have been the time the fighting game genre was the most niche in history with next to zero expansion.
A good example is Street Fighter, was basically non-existent since 1995 and SF EX not creating the 3D excitement other games did, and releasing Two Street fighter III's in the same year (and it wasn't just an iteration it was basically a new game retconning the first one out of existence iirc) in the arcades already gave you a clue as to that. After SFEx3 I don't think there was a new major title at all until SFIV.
Sales aren't opinions, but you would know that if you had good reading comprehension and/or read the OP. The amount of quality damage control reaction posts in a sales thread continues to amaze me.I feel secondhand embarrassment from how everyone is dunking on the OP for having such a wrong opinion.
Considering you could easily do simple research instead of stating what you believe, finding out multiple sources for sales numbers which the main source is the studio that made the games themselves and at times the co-creator of the franchise, yeah they did.Could you please share any reliable source to back your statements about these MK games being major sellers?
I'd assume Tekken always had good sales, but I doubt the crappy MK games released after MK3 and before MK 2011 were big sellers,
I'd assume Tekken always had good sales, but I doubt the crappy MK games released after MK3 and before MK 2011 were big sellers,
Ok, so you can't provide any source to back your claim that these MK games were big sellers, and that the maximum sales number we kow is the 3.5M of MK DS. I see. Btw, Tekken 5 sold over 6 million copies.Sales aren't opinions, but you would know that if you had good reading comprehension and/or read the OP. The amount of quality damage control reaction posts in a sales thread continues to amaze me.
Considering you could easily do simple research instead of stating what you believe, finding out multiple sources for sales numbers which the main source is the studio that made the games themselves and at times the co-creator of the franchise, yeah they did.
3.5 Million for Deadly Alliance
almost 3 million for Deception, 1.9 million in a very short time frame after launch and was the fastest selling MK game (at the time)
over 1 million for Armageddon to as high as 2 million.
Tekken is the only closest competitor (and ended up doing better overall once Tekken 5 came out, granted the 360 was out by the time it hit 4 million iirc) no one else came close. Without those two Ips we would be looking at a confined genre for years.
Mortal Kombat Trilogy sold:
1,450,096 PSX Mortal Kombat Trilogy (Midway)
611,161 N64 Mortal Kombat Trilogy (Midway)
That's 2.06 million. And that's just in the US, not including other place it sold.
As for Mortal Kombat 4 there's talk it did at least over 1 million (did over 600k for PS1 but I haven't seen DC or N64 figures) but even if it did or didn't yes it was a decline in console sales for a major first 3D title, and while profitable only did modest in the arcades I hear.
But that was the point of Deadly Alliance, to refresh and replenish the franchise, and it did that. Third best selling MK game until MK9. MK Deception was not far behind. Armageddon was a drop but still did well and MK Vs. DC sold 2.5 million or somewhere around there iirc and that used a refined but still very similar engine to the 3 3D xbox/ps2 games.
Shaolin Monks sold over 1 million, and while not a fighting game it does show the brand strength at the time.
When guys like you wonder about MK selling before MK9 where everyone revises history between MK3 and MK9, in terms of series performance (NOT QUALITY) I ask ok compared to what?
Since MK2's console release the only traditional fighter that has competed with MK on average for sales is Tekken.
Even now with MKX selling over 11 million (long ago it's likely higher) or MK11 at 8 million (which was also a bit ago and likely higher by now) Tekken is at 7 million sales with Tekken 7(lol punny) it's still the only other major selling traditional fighting game franchise.
I will say though after slow sales and being stuck in the 2 million range forever SFV did make a bit of a turnaround especially with the updates and cheap deals. I believe SFV is at 5.2 million now, but it doesn't have much more room to run from what I'm seeing. If they add a budget to SF6 and make sure it's launch isn't broken and complete with content and treat it like RE I can see SF refreshing itself.
Man not only will you not do research (yet you mention the 3.5 million which is from the same source that gives the other two, which means you didn't check that either, and ignored the trilogy npd numbers) but you ignored Tekjen 5 being in the OP twice.Ok, so you can't provide any source to back your claim that these MK games were big sellers, and that the maximum sales number we kow is the 3.5M of MK DS. I see. Btw, Tekken 5 sold over 6 million copies.
The current sales numbers of these series that we know as of now are:Man not only will you not do research (yet you mention the 3.5 million which is from the same source that gives the other two, which means you didn't check that either, and ignored the trilogy npd numbers) but you ignored Tekjen 5 being in the OP twice.
You're a wreck, everyone with a brain knows that the overall biggest selling traditional fighters for years on average and NOW are MK and Tekken, go educate yourself.
Even thought not traditional, Smash only just recently entered the ring itself with it's latest big seller. No tradituonal series comes close to either, especially during the ps2/xbox time your ignorant of. Outside Melee which isn't traditional.
What do you think was a big selling series other than MK and Tekken? All 3 Street Figfhter 3's? Lol ok.
Say what you want about the quality but those games sold bad or not. You're refusal to do anything doesnt change that fact (again find it odd you say you agree with the 3.5 milliin but too lazy to check the source you claim to agree with to get the other two numbers. Seems nuts to me.)
We actually don't have confirmed data for Armageddon so we don't know about that though it's possibly it's sub 2 milling.As I said before, out of the Mortal Kombat games of that period, with 'big' sales I only know the 3.5 of MKDS. Other than that the other ones are sub 2M,
Yeah they don't include it because they don't count, plus that would be cheating. But that's not really relevant to the time period we are talking about in this thread either way (outside MvsC2)(Marvel vs Capcom -includes X-Men vs SF or MSH vs SF- series sold 9.8M as of December 2020), spin-off subseries or games like Final Fight (sold 3.2M as of December 2020) or Cannon Spike
Firstly you had sources, you have a 3.5 million you agreed with yet didn't check the source to find the sales for the other two games, so you clearly never wanted to have an honest discussion from the jump. You were doing all that hollering over a source you never actually checked you agreed with.. I wouldn't call big sellers games.
I wouldn't call big sellers games that sold around 1-2M when the series sold over 50M,
Ones I claimed? Like SFIII? Close to 1 million? You aren't even trying anymore you aren't even trying to have to have a real discussion you're dancing all over the place. A handful of games passed a million or just made it, the rest were all niche. No one is going to say any of the 500 KOF games during that time sold anything substantial outside a core of major fighting fans, same with SFIII, same with the small anime fighters and so on.There many of the ones you claim didn't sell a shit must be close to 1M.
Mm, critics liked the arcade version but you're right about the console versions, although the N64 version doesn't look to bad comparatively to the....2 or so other fighters on the system lol.and MK4 looking like crap as a 3D fighter.
Deception was actually universally considered an improvement,a nd while Armageddon was criticized it still did well and then led to MK.VS.DC, which did better.Deception was more of the same and AGAIn they went and killed themselves off by putting out Armageddon.
I wouldnt say they brought back to life fighting games in general. MK5 brought themselves back into popularity again after the slow burnout of MK3 and MK4
Last but not least, the graphics. T7 uses Unreal 4 engine and MK11 uses U3 engine, yet MK11 looks a whole generation ahead of Tekken 7 graphics wise. Tekken lighting looks so flat especially, thats what I mean by the developers just being lazy to improve.....oh and its not because of 60fps because MK11 looks that great and is still 60fps as well.