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Modern Vintage Gamer: Online DRM has ruined Gran Turismo 7

rofif

Gold Member
MVG is talking about another form of DRM protection where you cannot play offline but im talking bout the definition of a DRM

"digital rights management (DRM), protection of copyrighted works by various means to control or prevent digital copies from being shared over computer networks or telecommunications networks."

So basically all videogames nowdays have it from digital to even disc form since the data on the disc has to be installed to the hard drive or SSD and the disc basically act as the DRM key so it all DRM we cannot escape it
Well You need hdd/ssd to install a game but console comes with it built in.
The fact that you do not need to authorize your console and to patch the game or system is main point.
You can most likely buy ps4/ps5 (lol maybe) and buy days gone and play. Fully 1.0 offline with never connecting online. Fully apocalypse scenario.

The moment game requires any patch to play or online authorization - it's gone.

That's why no patch will ever fix gt7. They would need to reprint the discs and make a new version even if they ever patched it to work offline
 

Markio128

Member
funny how all reviewers praised this game... because they got it for free
Wouldn’t that be the same for every game? 😂
Stupidity Are You Stupid GIF
 

Spukc

Member
The reason gt7 is basically online only is
Fuck you give me money

No point in spending cash on mtx when you can just hack money in a save
 

Gamezone

Gold Member
I've lost count on how many times online DRM have ruined single player games. Diablo, Sim City, and Assassins Creed 1 (PC) just to name a few. Some games even had them removed to please the players.
 

Fredrik

Gold Member
MVG is talking about another form of DRM protection where you cannot play offline but im talking bout the definition of a DRM

"digital rights management (DRM), protection of copyrighted works by various means to control or prevent digital copies from being shared over computer networks or telecommunications networks."

So basically all videogames nowdays have it from digital to even disc form since the data on the disc has to be installed to the hard drive or SSD and the disc basically act as the DRM key so it all DRM we cannot escape it
I don’t see the reason to compare normal digital purchases to what happened to GT7, seems like a different topic altogether.
 
But that’s not the point he made - he said it reviewed well because it was free.
Whatever the case, the game review to good for what turns out to be f2p practices coupled with strict DRM to support f2p monetization tactics.

Should have dropped the score of the game by a lot.
 

SLB1904

Member
Having a blast. I know people want the classic expensive cars, but I only want gr3 and gr4 cars for daily races and they are around 500k
The toyota lmp1 I want cost a million.

I'm good
 

Markio128

Member
Whatever the case, the game review to good for what turns out to be f2p practices coupled with strict DRM to support f2p monetization tactics.

Should have dropped the score of the game by a lot.
Well, I own the game and I’m enjoying it immensely, so not sure what your point is, particularly since I haven’t needed to spend any money on MTX.
 

Chukhopops

Member
funny how all reviewers praised this game... because they got it for free
To be fair MTX were disabled during the review phase and added immediately after launch. Can’t blame the reviewers for that.

But the always online aspect has been ignored in all reviews I read - I think it’s because most people don’t care about it that much.
 
Having a blast. I know people want the classic expensive cars, but I only want gr3 and gr4 cars for daily races and they are around 500k
The toyota lmp1 I want cost a million.

I'm good
I'm with you. This game is going to have so many events during the years i'll finish it no matter how much grinding i'll do.
I look at GT like a good wine. I'll always take my time with it. It's not something i wanna get over with really fast.

I'll never spend more of my money with this game. I've already spent 100€ and no more.
 

Markio128

Member
To be fair MTX were disabled during the review phase and added immediately after launch. Can’t blame the reviewers for that.

But the always online aspect has been ignored in all reviews I read - I think it’s because most people don’t care about it that much.
It was the same in GT Sport (always online), so not exactly a surprise to anybody who had played GT Sport.
 
Well, I own the game and I’m enjoying it immensely, so not sure what your point is, particularly since I haven’t needed to spend any money on MTX.
There is no arcade mode from previous GT releases, so I can't really go out and just have fun with great cars, music-rally is a good idea, but there are just six events with shitty old-timers.

I get the idea its a roleplaying car game, but the time spend with shitty compacts, crudely tuned road cars is too long. Getting the great stuff takes too long. Some of the content is behind a paywall (to me grinding 10+hours of something is textbook definition of a paywall).
I bought the game to enjoy cars I could not in real life, now they are made available only after hours of grinding, and in some cases for limited amounts of time. All made to generate MTX.
I don't care that it was there in GT Sports, GT7 is what I spend money on now (69EUR) - but I would like to add that time to grind for good cars was significantly less in GT Sports.

If you don't feel that in the games design, cool I guess. I got the feeling of f2p mechanics quite early on, and do not like it. I love everything else about the game, but its crystal clear what they are doing. And its a shame I think.
 
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Three

Member
It's seems that a number of people have issue with the fact that a Single Player Campaign is online only.

Someone mentioned GaaS sucks.

Then someone replied with, not all GaaS suck.

I agreed.
During launch people had an issue that Sea of Thieves was online only even though the PvE could be done solo. Before launch Rare said there will be no microtransactions at launch and there wasn't when reviews went up. Then microtransactions were added after launch and the game is the same collectathon grindfest. I just don't see how the model is different. The game was $60 too.

I'm asking you what makes you think SoT's GaaS model didn't suck in comparison. Seems like the same model to me.
 
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TVexperto

Member
To be fair MTX were disabled during the review phase and added immediately after launch. Can’t blame the reviewers for that.

But the always online aspect has been ignored in all reviews I read - I think it’s because most people don’t care about it that much.
but at this point critics need to wait after launch. this is not the first time it happened...activision did the same etc..
 

Markio128

Member
There is no arcade mode from previous GT releases, so I can't really go out and just have fun with great cars, music-rally is a good idea, but there are just six events with shitty old-timers.

I get the idea its a roleplaying car game, but the time spend with shitty compacts, crudely tuned road cars is too long. Getting the great stuff takes too long. Some of the content is behind a paywall (to me grinding 10+hours of something is textbook definition of a paywall).
I bought the game to enjoy cars I could not in real life, now they are made available only after hours of grinding, and in some cases for limited amounts of time. All made to generate MTX.
I don't care that it was there in GT Sports, GT7 is what I spend money on now (69EUR) - but I would like to add that time to grind for good cars was significantly less in GT Sports.

If you don't feel that in the games design, cool I guess. I got the feeling of f2p mechanics quite early on, and do not like it. I love everything else about the game, but its crystal clear what they are doing. And its a shame I think.
There are lots and lots of missions and licence tests to take part in. I’ve played the game for the best part of 30 hours and I’m nowhere near completing either the career, licence tests or missions. Games are just about having fun and I’m having lots of fun with the game. The only issue I have is the always online, but that was also the case with GT Sport, which I spent 100’s of hours with, without any issue to speak of.

Don’t forget, GT Sport also received lots of free cars and tracks throughout its lifespan, which I’m sure will be the case with GT7, so it’s swings and roundabouts as far as I’m concerned.
 

Schmick

Member
During launch people had an issue that Sea of Thieves was online only even though the PvE could be done solo. Before launch Rare said there will be no microtransactions and there wasn't when reviews went up. Then microtransactions were added and the game is the same collectathon grindfest. I just don't see how the model is different. The game was $60 too.

I'm asking you what makes you think SoT didn't suck in comparison.
You clearly do not understand SoT (and that is fine btw, of course not everyone plays it). Yes, you can play Solo, but you are playing on a server with other crews/pirates, therefore must be online. It is the premise of the game that you are playing with or against other pirates. Its the whole point of the game, a concept that I whole heartedly agree with. In fact Rare still do not want to offer true PvE servers. Which is fine with me, as i stated before, i'm all in, with the SoT premise.

I don't recall Rare ever saying there wont be microtransactions. I do recall however them saying there would never be loot boxes.

I don't think I could have been any clearer when I said... the MTX does not have any impact on me as someone who does not purchase MTX. What you can buy is cosmetic and pets. Whether I decide to buy that stuff does not impact me or disadvantage me in anyway. Not to mention the down time whilst servers are updated is well reported and communicated to the players. And they rarely go down for any other reason.
 

Markio128

Member
You clearly do not understand SoT (and that is fine btw, of course not everyone plays it). Yes, you can play Solo, but you are playing on a server with other crews/pirates, therefore must be online. It is the premise of the game that you are playing with or against other pirates. Its the whole point of the game, a concept that I whole heartedly agree with. In fact Rare still do not want to offer true PvE servers. Which is fine with me, as i stated before, i'm all in, with the SoT premise.

I don't recall Rare ever saying there wont be microtransactions. I do recall however them saying there would never be loot boxes.

I don't think I could have been any clearer when I said... the MTX does not have any impact on me as someone who does not purchase MTX. What you can buy is cosmetic and pets. Whether I decide to buy that stuff does not impact me or disadvantage me in anyway. Not to mention the down time whilst servers are updated is well reported and communicated to the players. And they rarely go down for any other reason.
James Franco GIF
 
I don't recall Rare ever saying there wont be microtransactions. I do recall however them saying there would never be loot boxes.
Also short reminder that the MTX were implemented 18 (yes, eighteen) months after release. And Rare was always open about wanting to introduce MTX, well before release. Acting like it's the same situation as with GT7 is kinda hilarious.
 

Markio128

Member
Also short reminder that the MTX were implemented 18 (yes, eighteen) months after release. And Rare was always open about wanting to introduce MTX, well before release. Acting like it's the same situation as with GT7 is kinda hilarious.
Is it? Please explain how the MTX in GT7 stop me from enjoying and completing the game?

EDIT: Just the answer I expected 😂
 
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Three

Member
You clearly do not understand SoT (and that is fine btw, of course not everyone plays it). Yes, you can play Solo, but you are playing on a server with other crews/pirates, therefore must be online. It is the premise of the game that you are playing with or against other pirates. Its the whole point of the game, a concept that I whole heartedly agree with. In fact Rare still do not want to offer true PvE servers. Which is fine with me, as i stated before, i'm all in, with the SoT premise.

I don't recall Rare ever saying there wont be microtransactions. I do recall however them saying there would never be loot boxes.

I don't think I could have been any clearer when I said... the MTX does not have any impact on me as someone who does not purchase MTX. What you can buy is cosmetic and pets. Whether I decide to buy that stuff does not impact me or disadvantage me in anyway. Not to mention the down time whilst servers are updated is well reported and communicated to the players. And they rarely go down for any other reason.
Rare said there will be no microtransactions on release, you know, until the reviews are done. You can play solo and a lot of people want to play solo without other players in a farming collectathon. As is evident in the links in my post if you think there is something I'm not understanding. There is nothing there I don't understand. It was the same with GT Sport. People were asking to play the game solo when PD were making a racing online game. They added more solo content with the same shared progression system and always online still.

Whatever you say about SoT applies to GT.

"the MTX does not have any impact on me as someone who does not purchase MTX."

Same thing people playing GT can say.
The game requires always online, people ask for an offline only mode, same thing people say of Sea of Thieves. The reason it isn't happening is that it's a GaaS model with microtransactions. The GaaS models are the same IMO.
 
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There are lots and lots of missions and licence tests to take part in. I’ve played the game for the best part of 30 hours and I’m nowhere near completing either the career, licence tests or missions. Games are just about having fun and I’m having lots of fun with the game. The only issue I have is the always online, but that was also the case with GT Sport, which I spent 100’s of hours with, without any issue to speak of.

Don’t forget, GT Sport also received lots of free cars and tracks throughout its lifespan, which I’m sure will be the case with GT7, so it’s swings and roundabouts as far as I’m concerned.
30 hours is a lot of gaming time for me. I want the good stuff of a game I payed for to be at least accessible way sooner. Arcade mode in previous GT games was super awesome for me.
 
Rare said there will be no microtransactions on release, you know, until the reviews are done.
The MTX came 18 months later.
You can play solo and a lot of people want to play solo without other players in a farming collectathon.
You can play World of Warcraft solo. It still can't be an offline game due to its nature. Same for SoT. On the other hand, there's nothing but MTX preventing GT7 from being offline.
 

Markio128

Member
30 hours is a lot of gaming time for me. I want the good stuff of a game I payed for to be at least accessible way sooner. Arcade mode in previous GT games was super awesome for me.
Well, sorry to hear that, but this was certainly confirmed in reviews. And good stuff is kind of subjective. I don’t think the majority want access to everything from the get-go as that defeats the object of the game. Just enjoy the career and then use the cars that you collected in the mode where you get to create your own races.
 

Schmick

Member
Rare said there will be no microtransactions on release, you know, until the reviews are done. You can play solo and a lot of people want to play solo without other players in a farming collectathon. As is evident in the links in my post if you think there is something I'm not understanding. There is nothing there I don't understand. It was the same with GT Sport. People were asking to play the game solo when PD were making a racing online game. They added more solo content with the same shared progression system and always online still.

Whatever you say about SoT applies to GT.

"the MTX does not have any impact on me as someone who does not purchase MTX."

Same thing people playing GT can say.
The game requires always online, people ask for an offline only mode, same thing people say of Sea of Thieves. The reason it isn't happening is that it's a GaaS model with microtransactions. The GaaS models are the same IMO.
Sigh, first you edit your post with the links after I replied, or it seems you did it just before or after I posted so I didn't have the opportunity to look at them.

Secondly, I'm well of aware of a small number of players wanting PvE servers.... but my point was.... thats not what the game is about. Majority of players are perfectly happy with the way the game is played online. Which is evident by SoT's success, particularly post Steam release and actually evident in those forum links you posted (did you read the responses in those threads).

The article you linked in your response to MTX in SoT.... how did you miss this? (Bear in mind that MTX actually were introduced 18 months after release)

"Executive Producer Joe Neate spoke to IGN about the decision, which will instead add in microtransactions to the game after launch in the first major update, probably around three months in.

“We thought long and hard about what's right for our game experience, and the key thing we think is that it has to add to the fun, social nature of the game. So anything in this area will not impact power or progression, and you'll always know what you're getting - so that means no loot crates.”

Let me bring you back to the beginning of my involvement in this thread. Someone said GaaS sucks. Someone else said that done right GaaS does not suck. I agreed. And gave three examples. FS2020, FH5 and SoT. That is all.
 

Three

Member
The MTX came 18 months later.

You can play World of Warcraft solo. It still can't be an offline game due to its nature. Same for SoT. On the other hand, there's nothing but MTX preventing GT7 from being offline.
Don't be daft. What has Rare's inability to release it on the date they set got to do with anything? So what it released 18 months after? The game had a GaaS model set before launch and they were meant to add it earlier post launch


Again don't be silly about your WoW comparison. It's more like saying GTA Online cannot have an offline mode "because of the nature of the game". Whatever you say pal.

Truth is it's a grindfest game with microtransactions where you grind ancient coins to avoid paying £5 for a digital paraquee

People just like to make excuses for particular games
 
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Three

Member
Majority of players are perfectly happy with the way the game is played online. Which is evident by SoT's success, particularly post Steam release and actually evident in those forum links you posted (did you read the responses in those threads).
Fun fact: GT is more successful than Sea of Thieves.
"people are perfectly happy with the way the game is played online"

See what I'm saying yet?
 
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Schmick

Member
Fun fact GT is more successful than Sea of Thieves.
"people are perfectly happy with the way the game is played online"

See what I'm saying yet?
Fun fact... "people are perfectly happy with the way the game is played online" up until the game is updated 2 weeks after the game has released to increase the price of select cars in game and causes a 24+ hour outage so no one can play the single player campaign.
 
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Three

Member
updated 2 weeks after the game has released to increase the price of select cars
Now you're just making it perfectly clear you haven't played nor been following anything regarding GT. No cars had a price increase in an update.
Yes an outage happened for a day. Guess what outages of xbox live and sea of thieves servers happen too where you guessed it you can't play the game even if you fly solo.
 
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People really have to stop buying games that have anti consumer practices, unfortunately so many idiots complain but buy the games anyway, you know what that is? Enabling.
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
This is pathetic- I love gran turismo so seeing sony butcher it like this is so sad
and you know it's sony and not polyphony because Kaz would never want Gran Turismo to have Microtransactions.
 

Schmick

Member
Now you're just making it perfectly clear you haven't played nor been following anything regarding GT. No cars had a price increase in an update.
Yes an outage happened for a day. Guess what outages of xbox live and sea of thieves servers happen too where you guessed it you can't play the game even if you fly solo.
Yes I have never played the game. But I have said that I wish I had a PS5 so I could in another thread.

And I got it wrong. The car prices have not increased. The rewards following events has decreased. My bad. You can take the win on that one. Congratulations.

Xbox Live outages have been rare no?

SoT is online. Advertised as such. Maintenance is expected. 24+ plus down time. Has not happened. Would i be just annoyed if it had. Yes i would.

Stop looking at my posts as an attack on GT7 as a whole.
 

Three

Member
Xbox Live outages have been rare no?

SoT is online. Advertised as such. Maintenance is expected. 24+ plus down time. Has not happened. Would i be just annoyed if it had. Yes i would.

Stop looking at my posts as an attack on GT7 as a whole.
About as rare as a faulty patch. GT sport is the same and has been fine for the most part. There have been times in the past that xbox live has been down for some for that long near Christmas. Makes no difference to my point though. I don't see your posts as an attack on anything I just don't see the difference in GaaS models that you're apparently trying to point out.

The games both require an online connection, the games have MTX, the games require grinding and are based on overpriced/time sink collectathons. That's all I'm saying.
 
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Schmick

Member
About as rare as a faulty patch. GT sport is the same and has been fine for the most part. There have been times in the past that xbox live has been down for some for that long near Christmas. Makes no difference to my point though. I don't see your posts as an attack on anything I just don't see the difference in GaaS models that you're apparently trying to point out.

The games both require an online connection, the games have MTX, the games require grinding and are based on overpriced/time sink collectathons. That's all I'm saying.

Are you talking about when Xbox Live and Playstation networks were attacked by a DDOS?

Can we agree to leave it after this post and move on?

I simply got involved when someone said that GaaS suck. I disagreed GaaS suck, when done right. That's all I'm saying.
 
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Don't be daft. What has Rare's inability to release it on the date they set got to do with anything? So what it released 18 months after? The game had a GaaS model set before launch and they were meant to add it earlier post launch
The entire point is that GT7 reviewers didn't have access to MTX and then at release it turned out that in GT7 not only cars are much more expensive but that the game is also grindier than all previous games (and made even grindier two weeks later in a patch). Imagine comparing that situation to Sea of Thieves.
Again don't be silly about your WoW comparison. It's more like saying GTA Online cannot have an offline mode "because of the nature of the game". Whatever you say pal.
GTA has an offline and an online mode. GT7 doesn't, that's the point.
 

Three

Member
Are you talking about when Xbox Live and Playstation networks were attacked by a DDOS?

Can we agree to leave it after this post and move on?

I simply got involved when someone said that GaaS suck. I disagreed GaaS suck, when done right. That's all I'm saying.

Yeah. Of course. sorry if the conversation/banter annoyed you, and I mean that sincerely. Just wanted to know why you think it sucked on one and not the other because I personally can't see the difference.
 

Three

Member
The entire point is that GT7 reviewers didn't have access to MTX and then at release it turned out that in GT7 not only cars are much more expensive but that the game is also grindier than all previous games (and made even grindier two weeks later in a patch). Imagine comparing that situation to Sea of Thieves.

GTA has an offline and an online mode. GT7 doesn't, that's the point.

Neither did Sea of thieves reviewers. In fact in GT7s example at least the reviewers played the same game even if there wasn't an ability to buy Cr pre launch. Which you guessed it would make absolutely no difference to the review. Cars were not made more expensive. The reviewers could have calculated grind post or pre mtx and it would have made no difference.

GTA has an offline and an online mode no shit that's the point. So what makes you think SoTs couldn't "due to the nature of the game"?
But it's you and you're trying to kick up a fuss while simultaneously defending what I expected you to defend in another game. I'm out.
 
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Neither did Sea of thieves reviewers.
Hard to have access to MTX when they don't exist for another 18 months.
Cars were not made more expensive.
This is factually false.

GTA has an offline and an online mode no shit that's the point. So what makes you think SoTs couldn't "due to the nature of the game"?
Have you ever played SoT? How would the game even work offline? They would have to change the gameplay loop quite a bit.

Meanwhile, if you want to drive a race against NPCs, you gotta be online in GT7. That's what people are complaining about.
But it's you and you're trying to kick up a fuss while simultaneously defending what I expected you to defend in another game. I'm out.
They're different games, the comparison doesn't work. There's no double standard here.
 

Lognor

Banned
This is pathetic- I love gran turismo so seeing sony butcher it like this is so sad
and you know it's sony and not polyphony because Kaz would never want Gran Turismo to have Microtransactions.
Yeah, it is sad. After Gran Turismo Sport's lackluster release it seemed like Sony was back on track with GT7 but they've sabotaged themselves again. I don't get it. Sony needs to get more involved with Polyphony because the dev obviously is making some big mistakes.
 

Three

Member
Hard to have access to MTX when they don't exist for another 18 months.
What does this even mean? What difference would it make to a reviewer who has done their review if MTXs come a week or 18 months after the review is done? You're just looking for daft reasons/excuses for one and not the other and they don't make any sense.

The reason that SoT mtx were delayed too was because Rare was behind on content and player base but the model for the game and mtx were in place before the games launch and meant to be added early post launch, it was just delayed so that excuses it to you somehow.

This is factually false.


Have you ever played SoT? How would the game even work offline? They would have to change the gameplay loop quite a bit.

Meanwhile, if you want to drive a race against NPCs, you gotta be online in GT7. That's what people are complaining about.

They're different games, the comparison doesn't work. There's no double standard here.

No it isn't and yes I have.

And if I want to go kill some Ancient skeletons (NPCs) to farm coins and play solo "I got to be online for that".

Same thing. Some people are complaining about no offline mode in SoT. They just want to play on their own or coop looting without getting attacked. Same with GTA online. That's how it will work. It isn't how it works though because it's a GaaS model game like GT and GTA online. It's about engagement and mtxs. Don't make excuses for SoT because it's from your favourite company though.
 
What does this even mean? What difference would it make to a reviewer who has done their review if MTXs come a week or 18 months after the review is done? You're just looking for daft reasons/excuses for one and not the other and they don't make any sense.
The difference is that the MTX in GT7 are part of the gameplay experience from day one and reviewers weren't able to look at it. Feel free to explain how adding MTX 18 months later is the same thing.
No it isn't and yes I have.
It is, some cars are 700% more expensive.
And if I want to go kill some Ancient skeletons (NPCs) to farm coins and play solo "I got to be online for that".
It's an online game. The entire point is to play with/against other pirates.
Same thing. Some people are complaining about no offline mode in SoT. They just want to play on their own or coop looting without getting attacked. Same with GTA online. That's how it will work. It isn't how it works though because it's a GaaS model game like GT and GTA online. It's about engagement and mtxs.
Nope, SoT is simply an online multiplayer game. GT7 inherently isn't, that's why 99.9% of racing games have offline modes, while online multiplayer games generally don't.
 
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