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[shanshan310]

I was not trying to imply otherwise. But since your comments on maids and slavery leads me to believe you really do not know anything about race relations in America.

I don't have extensive historical knowledge, no. But to say I know nothing of the current issues is not the case at all. Thanks for attempting to engage with me in an intelligent way, discuss and educate me in what I have to learn, and talk to me about what I was implying. I truly have gained a lot from this pass half hour of interaction.

 

[Clayton Bigsby]

I don't have extensive historical knowledge, no. But to say I know nothing of the current issues is not the case at all. Thanks for attempting to engage with me in an intelligent way, discuss and educate me in what I have to learn, and talk to me about what I was implying. I truly have gained a lot from this pass half hour of interaction.

I can understand not knowing everything about US history regarding race or anything else. But you must understand commenting on such things without a basic knowledge of them is a stumbling block to an intelligent conversation. I may have come off as a dick, but after suggesting there was slavery up to the 1960s, you followed it up by suggesting being a maid was tantamount to being a slave. If you do know about current race relations, I am sorry for assuming otherwise.

 

[SmokyDave]

I can understand not knowing everything about US history regarding race or anything else. But you must understand commenting on such things without a basic knowledge of them is a stumbling block to an intelligent conversation. I may have come off as a dick, but after suggesting there was slavery up to the 1960s, you followed it up by suggesting being a maid was tantamount to being a slave. If you do know about current race relations, I am sorry for assuming otherwise.

Was it a massive stretch to assume that the poster was referring to shitty race relations prior to the civil rights movement (segregation, separate but equal and all that) and used 'slavery' inappropriately?

I don't feel like you even tried to understand what Shan was saying.

 

[Funky Papa]

I find the cake much less disturbing than the fact that we have a female circumcision apologist in this thread.

 

[Sealda]

There is a certain group of swedes, especially males, who take pleasure in calling a certain chocolate pastry "ni**er" ball. I personally see right through their arguments about "it should be called what it has always been called! Its not racist at all! huhuhu". Its obvious that its some form of schaudenfraude racism underlying it.

An ice-cream company having a ice-cream named 88 at the same time as a Nogger Black is just a bit too much.

 

[Clayton Bigsby]

Was it a massive stretch to assume that the poster was referring to shitty race relations prior to the civil rights movement (segregation, separate but equal and all that) and used 'slavery' inappropriately?

I don't feel like you even tried to understand what Shan was saying.

No, I could take that as just a semantics issue. The equating maids to slaves is the more problematic. The combination of those two things seems to suggest a complete lack of knowledge of the issues of race in America. For the record I understand what she was saying. Though I find it hard to believe that someone could confuse segregation/Separate but equal with Slavery. She even says American History was of little interest to her.

My point was if you do not understand the basics of something, why comment on it at all?

 

[bomma_man]

I thought they had that other immigration law about mandatory detention for those seeking asylum until around 2005? And the US stopped having slaves in the 1850's or around there I think. If it was the 1960's....I don't think black people would have the level of freedom they do now. Not that I think Australians are inherently racist, as that comment from the poster is the first I've ever heard of such a thing.

Aboriginals weren't able to vote until the mid 60's, and the White Australia immigration policy wasn't abolished until 1973.

The policy of locking up asylum seekers isn't ostensibly racist but it's certainly something that has undercurrents of xenophobia, and the asylum seekers themselves have been the subject of some disgusting dehumanisation campaigns by the Murdoch press, the Liberal party and the dickless Labor party.

There was the rise of the racist One Nation Party in the 90's, and Howard never hesitated to use shitty dog whistle politics when non-white immigrants were involved. 'Australian' is still synonymous with white. Even if you're a third generation Australian with Chinese heritage you'll forever be an 'Asian'.

So basically this country has a pretty shitty history of race relations but much of the populace seems to be wilfully ignorant of it, or just doesn't give a shit./offtopic

 

[_illmatic_]

As a black male I deff dont see how this "artwork" is helping the cause. Its blackface on a shitty cake lsughing about the issue. Seems to be a joke and not a real representation of African tribes.

 

[rezuth]

There is a certain group of swedes, especially males, who take pleasure in calling a certain chocolate pastry "ni**er" ball. I personally see right through their arguments about "it should be called what it has always been called! Its not racist at all! huhuhu". Its obvious that its some form of schaudenfraude racism underlying it.

An ice-cream company having a ice-cream named 88 at the same time as a Nogger Black is just a bit too much.

I think thats just reading too much into it, that is looking for something to complain about. Let's just focus on stuff that is something instead of trying to turn something else into racism.

 

[shanshan310]

I find the cake much less disturbing than the fact that we have a female circumcision apologist in this thread.

Yeah, what the crap. I'm all for trying to leave other cultures as intact as possible, but that stops at the point where that culture decides to cut of girls' genitalia in a way that often leaves them with urinary infections and leaky bladders.

There is a certain group of swedes, especially males, who take pleasure in calling a certain chocolate pastry "ni**er" ball. I personally see right through their arguments about "it should be called what it has always been called! Its not racist at all! huhuhu". Its obvious that its some form of schaudenfraude racism underlying it.

I thought that word just meant "black" in Swedish, which would make sense considering that dark chocolate is black. If not, yeah that's pretty shitty.

My point was if you do not understand the basics of something, why comment on it at all?

But you did the same thing with my point...
I do apologise for confusing segregation and slavery.

 

[SmokyDave]

No, I could take that as just a semantics issue. The equating maids to slaves is the more problematic. The combination of those two things seems to suggest a complete lack of knowledge of the issues of race in America. For the record I understand what she was saying. Though I find it hard to believe that someone could confuse segregation/Separate but equal with Slavery. She even says American History was of little interest to her.

I dunno man, lots of people conflate low-paid menial jobs with indebtured servitude with chattel slavery. I don't think there's any inherent malice behind it or anything. The history of race relations in the US is extremely complicated and pretty much unique. Even for someone actively trying to understand, it's a minefield.

My point was if you do not understand the basics of something, why comment on it at all?

This is the internet, man!

 

[rezuth]

I thought that word just meant "black" in Swedish, which would make sense considering that dark chocolate is black. If not, yeah that's pretty shitty.

The word is a swedish version of "Niger" which means black. Now obviously it later on became a word filled with "power" as people started using it offensively. So some people who still call it "negerboll" are just assholes looking to stirr shit up.

 

[Clayton Bigsby]

Yeah, what the crap. I'm all for trying to leave other cultures as intact as possible, but that stops at the point where that culture decides to cut of girls' genitalia in a way that often leaves them with urinary infections and leaky bladders.



I thought that word just meant "black" in Swedish, which would make sense considering that dark chocolate is black. If not, yeah that's pretty shitty.



But you did the same thing with my point...
I do apologise for confusing segregation and slavery.

I commented on an issue I did not have a grasp on? Assuming you had a lack of knowledge on race relations is probably what you are referring to? Honestly, I am not trying to be a dick. Confusing segregation with slavery is a stretch, but I guess I can see it. But then equating slavery with being a maid suggested you lack understanding on both of those things. Though, we can agree on America has had a very troubled past and continues to struggle in certain areas concerning race.

 

[dojokun]

The assumption that the US still had slaves in 1960 is hilarious and over shadows any point you were "trying" to make. I do not expect all foreigners to know everything about my country. I do expect those who comment on my country to have some basic knowledge of its history.

No. One non-American on the internet in 2012 mistakenly saying the United States had slavery into the 1960s does NOT overshadow the fact that the United States DID have public racial segregation in the 1960s, in addition to the fact that the United States is one of the last of the developed nations to rid itself of slavery. Americans (myself included) are really not in a position to lecture other nations on racial sensitivity.

 

[Clayton Bigsby]

No. One non-American on the internet in 2012 mistakenly saying the United States had slavery into the 1960s does NOT overshadow the fact that the United States DID have public racial segregation in the 1960s, in addition to the fact that the United States is one of the last of the developed nations to rid itself of slavery. Americans (myself included) are really not in a position to lecture other nations on racial sensitivity.

No one said as much. I was talking directly towards her. Her making a point was overshadowed by her lack of knowledge on the subject. Though if it was a semantics issue, then my objection is no longer relevant. Also, just because of my countries past, does not disqualify me from pointing out the differences between being a maid and being a slave. I also do not remember lecturing anyone on racial sensitivity.

I am not trying to downplay my countries horrible past with racism. Quite the opposite, as I feel equating maids and slaves is lessening the atrocities associated with slavery. Being a maid before the civil rights movement was degrading,humiliating, and those in the profession were treated horribly. But slavery was much, much worse.

 

[akira28]

no no no. they got covered in soot. and then ate a bunch of red popsicles. and got some perms

*hits microphone against thigh*

oh damn.

 

[Slayven]

Black face is used a lot in modern art as a way of expressing and questioning black identity. I mean you could call any use of black face racist but you are going to be calling a lot of very influential art racist too.

Blackface in in any form is shitty. If you have to use it to express and question black identity then you have already failed.

 

[The Incarnation]

Question!

If it was a white cake and a black woman eating, would it be a problem?

If the histories of the two racial groups were reversed along with it yes.

 

[Johnny Cage In The Shower]

Isn't most art suppose to be controversial anyway?

Especially ones that are trying to raise awareness to fight for a good cause?

If It wasn't for a sponge cake, a hole in a table and that artist, I'm sure most of us here wouldn't at all cared to read up, or be concerned about those heinous acts of mutilation (female circumcision) going on in Africa.

Think the artist's job is done here, effectively and efficiently.

 

[Slayven]

Isn't most art suppose to be controversial anyway?

Especially ones that are trying to raise awareness to fight for a good cause?

If It wasn't for a sponge cake, a hole in a table and that artist, I'm sure most of us here wouldn't at all cared to read up, or be concerned about those heinous acts of mutilation (female circumcision) going on in Africa.

Think the artist's job is done here, effectively and efficiently.

Message is getting lost in the controversy

 

[nubbe]

People are more concerned about american slavery than female mutilation

 

[travisbickle]

Blackface in in any form is shitty. If you have to use it to express and question black identity then you have already failed.

Sorry, I think I wasn't detailed enough in my first post. Blackface is used by artists to express and question their own identity.

 

[Johnny Cage In The Shower]

Message is getting lost in the controversy

Not for me it isn't, maybe people should have more of an open mind? and start seeing the forest for the trees?

 

[shanshan310]

Sorry, I think I wasn't detailed enough in my first post. Blackface is used by artists to express and question their own identity.

I feel like the OP should be edited to reflect this, since by just looking at the picture it looks like white people doing black face and nothing else.

 

[SmokyDave]

People are more concerned about american slavery than female mutilation

What are people supposed to actually do about female genital mutilation though?

I don't think it's ignored, I think it's recognised as an abhorrent practice that we are powerless to stop.

 

[jaxword]

I feel like the OP should be edited to reflect this, since by just looking at the picture it looks like white people doing black face and nothing else.

I literally said this as early as I could on the first page. Didn't change a damn thing, because people saw and read what they wanted to see and read.

 

[nubbe]

What are people supposed to actually do about female genital mutilation though?

I don't think it's ignored, I think it's recognised as an abhorrent practice that we are powerless to stop.

http://www.unicef.org

With education the problem should be gone in 20-30 years

 

[Johnny Cage In The Shower]

I feel like the OP should be edited to reflect this, since by just looking at the picture it looks like white people doing black face and nothing else.

I agree, and I think that's the whole point of this piece of art, is to INITIALLY shock people with its strange presentation, only to get them more involved with it's actual message. and anyone with an attention span longer than a goldfish's and the ability to read shouldn't have any problem to understand its true message.

I find it ironic that we live in a such a biased and lazy culture that when we watch movies like 'Girl with the Dragon Tattoo' we overlook and accept violent rape scenes as "film" and as "art" or even "the film is trying to raise awareness for rape victims" or the constant racial and sexist overtones of a comedy classic like "Blazing Saddles" is all good, why? becasue it's just a movie it's not really being racist.

But apparently to most of us an art exhibition with a serious message is everything but art.

 

[akira28]

Pappa Lazarou.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2F4ZWTjwTU

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papa_Lazarou

Papa Lazarou, dresses like a 'minstrel'. Ok. 19th century American minstrelsy popularly introduced blackface actors. To portray black people. Usually in a fool/clown/zanni(zany) character type of the commedia dell'arte, if they were that organized. Or just as a general buffoon/trickster caricature of a negro in a comical role. This style of minstrelsy would eventually travel to other parts of the western world. Probably becoming somewhat disconnected with it's origins and motives for depicting blacks in that way. The racial undertones not being as apparent in a land where there are no black people or institutionalized slavery. They didn't know who or what was being ridiculed, or even why. So 'it's not racism, it's just entertainment.' (Nevermind how 'wog' became an overseas racial insult against anyone with dark skin.) So, fast-forward a century and a half later, and you have a Brit donning blackface, to portray a lecherous and dirty and conniving Greek carnival ringmaster who kidnaps the wives of men from their homes.

I mean, you couldn't make this up if you tried.

What are people supposed to actually do about female genital mutilation though?

I don't think it's ignored, I think it's recognised as an abhorrent practice that we are powerless to stop.

Anything. Everything. Sanction the fuck out of those that practice it. Education and outreach, provide muslim religious backing for schools of thought that don't believe in the female hating practices of cutting off the female sex organ because the woman might enjoy sex later and become tempted to be unfaithful or promiscuous. Fight hard for women's rights and equality and education, so they can know themselves that they have a human right to a voice and physical integrity. That their bodies don't belong to the men of their communities, they're more than just mothers and wives. Do all of that and more. Bruise some egos if you must. Step on some toes if it comes to it.
That's what we expect the western world to do.

 

[SmokyDave]

http://www.unicef.org

With education the problem should be gone in 20-30 years

Now that is optimism. There are a million problems in this world that could be solved with 30 years education, yet, we're still stuck with them.

You can't forcefully educate people is my conclusion.

 

[shanshan310]

Sadly not, but with better health and education services in the region one would hope that conditions would improve.

Nevermind how 'wog' became an overseas racial insult against anyone with dark skin.

Here "wog" is a mild racial slur for Italian/Greek people... I have no idea how that happened.

 

[akira28]

Sadly not, but with better health and education services in the region one would hope that conditions would improve.



Here "wog" is a mild racial slur for Italian/Greek people... I have no idea how that happened.

Those swarthy eye-ties and greeks, according to Oz usage. It can also refer to Africans, or even Asians in the UK. Colored foreigners, since in the past, there was strong discrimination between northern and southern Europeans. There was always someone to hate, for some reason or another.

VV yeah I read the wiki, and watched some shorts. I'm talking about the character itself. The "story" is almost beside the point.

 

[travisbickle]

I mean, you couldn't make this up if you tried.

Papa Lazarou's face is actually black and white, and in some episodes he painted over it with skin colour in an attempt to appear normal.

Spoiler

League of Gentlemen is a cult, dark, British comedy this is normal in the world of Royston Vasey

 

[antipod]

The word is a swedish version of "Niger" which means black. Now obviously it later on became a word filled with "power" as people started using it offensively. So some people who still call it "negerboll" are just assholes looking to stirr shit up.

It's hard to teach an old dog to sit. When I grew up everyone called it "negerboll" and I guess it just slips from the tongue now and then. It's the same with Raider and Twix, Clearasil and Head & Shoulders. If you called something one thing for so many years that is just how you relate to it.

But yeah, some people really do just try to stirr shit up. Some saying it with smirk, just trying to let people know they said it so on purpose.

 

[astroturfing]

hmm.. i'm ok with this. the artist's goal was to raise awareness about the awful practice of genital mutilation, so i think it's a success. this certainly didn't go unnoticed, like so many other attempts. very clever piece of art, that actually has an effect IMO.

and the artist is black, he can do whatever the fuck he wants with his art if it's about black people. just like any white person can make whatever kind of art about white people without everyone totally losing their shit. this shouldn't even be an issue, and i don't get the irrational hypersensitivity some have over this...

what i quite don't understand is why did he make the cake's features resemble the silly and inaccurate old charicatures that white people made of black people..? i guess this is what's making people feel uncomfortable (me too, a little bit).. maybe that's the point too though. to also remind of past racism.

i dunno though, i'm no art expert lol.

 

[SmokyDave]

Papa Lazarou's face is actually black and white, and in some episodes he painted over it with skin colour in an attempt to appear normal.

Spoiler

League of Gentlemen is a cult, dark, British comedy this is normal in the world of Royston Vasey

I've often wondered what would happen if The League Of Gentleman was broadcast in the US. I'm guessing there'd be more than a few complaints, and not just for Papa Lazarou.

 

[akira28]

astro: Artists may have some freedom for expression, but they aren't immune to criticism. And in this case, it's an organization of black-Swedes doing the criticizing. The artist states that people are just not understanding what he's trying to say, which, could be a fair argument in the eyes of some. But he isn't really communicating the meaning clearly either. If he's left it up to interpretation, well, some of his fellow black countymen think his art is actually hurting the cause instead of helping it.

dave: they did show it on Comedy Central some years back. Edited of course. I saw a few episodes. Never saw anything like Papa Lazarou though.

 

[v1oz]

I hope this is just ignorance

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_mutilation#Immediate_and_late_complications

It's definitely not ignorance. The issue is not whether FGM is right. All forms of genital mutilation should be banned because they are useless and unneeded in my opinion. Or at least wait until someone is of the age of consent and they make the decision for themselves. The human body is good as is, and functions most perfectly.