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Microsoft staff are openly questioning the value of diversity

desertdroog

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I've seen the gaslighting accusations thrown around a fair bit over the past week. Can we please stop and assume that the people we are interacting with are posting with good intentions (unless given clear indications otherwise)? Leave the paranoia to other forums.
I don't know how you can watch the three videos in the Weinstein and Evergreen thread and hand wave that intersectionality, particularly in practice and spoken words in those videos, has a large element of anti-white activism.

I'd appreciate when (the royal) you shit in my cheerios, to not tell me how fucking delicious it is.
 
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Papa

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I don't know how you can watch the three videos in the Weinstein and Evergreen thread and hand wave that intersectionality, particularly in practice and spoken words in those vidoes, has a large element of anti-white activism.

I'd appreciate when the royal you shits in my cheerios, to not tell me how fucking delicious it is.

I know you're familiar with my general postings, so you should know that I in no way endorse the intersectionality cult. I'm suggesting that we should not accuse each other of gaslighting unless given clear indications of it. I don't think O oagboghi2 was trying to gaslight you. In fact, I think he was agreeing with you in a way. I think he was saying that the students see "white" as a synonym for oppressor. Of course, anyone of sane mind who isn't overly familiar with the mental gymnastics of the intersectional cultists hears that they literally want to hang whites from trees.
 
Mar 23, 2018
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Diversity is a new word for racism.

There should never be any focus on diversity even remotely in a company. Because then you split people up in groups which is exactly what you should never do.

The reasons why SJW's and all those other racist people are spouting this nonsense and forcing this nonsense is so they get paid at the end of the day through outrage culture and nothing else.

Ask those leaders to there financial information and if they can showcase there bank account transfers. See how fast they flee.
 
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appaws

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There's studies and stuff that talk about the tangible business impact, but I won't focus on that.

"Diversity is good" is not limited to gender and ethnicity diversity, we're also talking about diversify of background and mindset.

It reduces barriers (less likely to pass over qualified people that you feel artificial discomfort with, it keeps you from looking just for similarity and compatibility).

It engages more customers, and better enables you to reach more customers. This is why representation in media is important. It also boosts your companies brand.

You have more skill representation, leading to more creative teams. Not everyone needs to be a technical wizard, or a leader.

It should lead to less lawsuits.

Competition is demanding it. Companies have to bring in people from other countries to compete (whether it's from cheaper labor, or domestic skills shortages)

We want inclusivity because we effectively don't want to cause people to hide their identities, which reduces performance. We want people to be comfortable being themselves. It increases courage, which is probably one of the most important business oriented qualities a person can have.
So if diversity is such a benefit, there should be nothing wrong with forced diversity, yeah?

If all these amazing benefits were real, nobody would ever have to force it. Every company would be tripping over themselves to get all these wonderful things...and outperforming any firms that don't do it.

That is so obviously not true. So instead we have to have a trained cadre of diversity professionals and HR department bureaucrat gang constantly on the alert to make sure that diversity policies are followed.

Even if any of the benefits ssolitaire describes were true, they would be outweighed by the hiring of less qualified applicants in order to achieve the diversity in the first place.
 

HeresJohnny

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The purpose of a nation is not to ensure big corporations can get away with paying as little as possible while making the largest profits possible. "Cheap labor" should not be an excuse whatsoever. Just hire Americans, period. If you have to pay them more, too fucking bad.

As for "domestic skills shortages," I'll just say LOL. That's complete bullshit.
What’s really funny about the “oh, poor corporations have to hire cheap labor” argument from Democrats is that the party at the same time has insisted on keeping the corporate tax rate as high or higher than anywhere else in the world. They like to talk out of both sides of their mouth it seems.
 

ssolitare

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If all these amazing benefits were real, nobody would ever have to force it. Every company would be tripping over themselves to get all these wonderful things...and outperforming any firms that don't do it.

That is so obviously not true. So instead we have to have a trained cadre of diversity professionals and HR department bureaucrat gang constantly on the alert to make sure that diversity policies are followed.

Even if any of the benefits ssolitaire describes were true, they would be outweighed by the hiring of less qualified applicants in order to achieve the diversity in the first place.

There's plenty of evidence of better performance if you wish to find it.

Diversity is a term that each business defines for themselves. I've told you guys not to get too wrapped up in gender and racial diversity. The workforce reflects your customers, or goals, and it's not a one-size fits all. There are a lot of complexities around intentionally diversifying your workforce, it requires effort, and it is actually less about recruitment. The tech industry chasing gender and ethnic diversity is entirely different from Wall Street (as if they would need to).

Think about it, if companies have enough employees who think like appaws on women in the workplace, how easy would it be to get and keep more women in that workplace, and achieve managerial buy-in, when the managers innately undermine it? But it goes deeper than that, and it's not all about that either (such as there being supply issues from heavy competition, so branding kicks in).

Really the only thing that I want you guys to understand is that you can expect to see diversity and inclusion initiatives for a long time to come. Just gotta deal with it.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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There's plenty of evidence of better performance if you wish to find it.

Diversity is a term that each business defines for themselves. I've told you guys not to get too wrapped up in gender and racial diversity. The workforce reflects your customers, or goals, and it's not a one-size fits all. There are a lot of complexities around intentionally diversifying your workforce, it requires effort, and it is actually less about recruitment. The tech industry chasing gender and ethnic diversity is entirely different from Wall Street (as if they would need to).

Think about it, if companies have enough employees who think like appaws on women in the workplace, how easy would it be to get and keep more women in that workplace, and achieve managerial buy-in, when the managers innately undermine it? But it goes deeper than that, and it's not all about that either (such as there being supply issues from heavy competition, so branding kicks in).

Really the only thing that I want you guys to understand is that you can expect to see diversity and inclusion initiatives for a long time to come. Just gotta deal with it.
We've all been providing evidence. Please provide some of this "plenty of evidence of better performance", or else don't waste everyone's time with empty distractions.

If diversity is a term that "each business defines for themselves", why is there such a strong push for particular kinds of diversity? Why is it specifically the gender and racial diversity getting pushed, the very items you're saying we should "not get too wrapped up" in? Sounds like more deflections and non-answers.

Your post amounts to "dudes, chill, diversity is, like, not a totally bad thing. Don't question it. Just deal with it. It's gonna be fine, friends. Like, it'll all work out".

A fine attitude to have, but it doesn't add anything meaningful to a discussion about "openly questioning the value of diversity".
 

appaws

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We've all been providing evidence. Please provide some of this "plenty of evidence of better performance", or else don't waste everyone's time with empty distractions.

If diversity is a term that "each business defines for themselves", why is there such a strong push for particular kinds of diversity? Why is it specifically the gender and racial diversity getting pushed, the very items you're saying we should "not get too wrapped up" in? Sounds like more deflections and non-answers.

Your post amounts to "dudes, chill, diversity is, like, not a totally bad thing. Don't question it. Just deal with it. It's gonna be fine, friends. Like, it'll all work out".

A fine attitude to have, but it doesn't add anything meaningful to a discussion about "openly questioning the value of diversity".

Diversity has just become an unquestioned dogma, with all its catchphrases like "Diversity is our strength" parroted repeatedly to drone audiences of NPCs like a mantra. It is an elite message that is delivered top down so relentlessly that it makes normies feel like there is no possible alternative. After all, anyone who dares speak of an alternative must be an alt-right neo-nazi and a bad, bad person.

I would argue that nobody really likes diversity, they are just trained to give those catchphrases on command and most of the time the diversity bureaucrat gang will not hassle them too bad. I don't think even minorities, who this is supposedly benefiting, actually care a whit for diversity. Look at churches, which are purely voluntary associations, they are the most racially segregated institutions in America. White people don't like diversity, they seem to move away from it as much as possible. Even the smug elites who lecture the rest of us on how wonderful diversity is work really hard to get into doorman buildings and gated neighborhoods that don't have any. They put their kids into segregated private schools at the same time they support policies that bus working-class black and white kids around the city to assuage their white guilt.

History has memory holed the fact that huge swaths of the black community opposed desegregation during the civil rights era because they felt it was a good thing for black people to have parallel institutions of their own. In the early 20th Century Marcus Garvey was a far more popular leader than the white and Jewish-funded NAACP and WEB DuBois.

This is anecdotal, but I always find it is the white people who grew up the most shielded from actual diverse groups that are the most reflexively driven to obey the dogma. I think it is a guilt thing, they feel bad about the "privilege" that their parents worked so hard to give them. Fuck that shit, I'm proud and glad and love my parents who made sacrifices to get ahead and give me a better life. I don't feel the least bit guilty about it.
 

Zog

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If all these amazing benefits were real, nobody would ever have to force it. Every company would be tripping over themselves to get all these wonderful things...and outperforming any firms that don't do it.
Well, that's what I meant by forcing it. Individual companies would be forcing it if they really believed there were these amazing benefits. I am self employed but from what I hear, all this diversity just makes everyone more miserable as they walk on eggshells trying not to say or do anything that may offend someone else (except white males, it's ok to openly hate on and offend white males).
 
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Jan 9, 2018
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Diversity is nothing more than the primary strategy by which today's elites and market leaders try to obscure their own class position and power.

One rarely even questions, for instance, whether Apple is fundamentally acting as a moral evil for creating and sustaining the smartphone market on the need for constant destruction / forced obsolesence, with literal millions of electronic devices discarded every single year as a necessary waste to keep the whole thing afloat--and with very little paid in taxes, cheap labor abroad, disastrous effects on the young who all end up glued to these devices or to porn, etc. Instead of needing to justify their position before the public on any of these questions, Apple and the other companies like it will simply push "diversity" efforts, try to show a picture in which their dominance is made up of many colors, women, etcetera. It's a sham.

Diversity has the same limitation as "meritocracy" as a value; ensuring that any random kid from a small town or school can be swept up away from their community and into the elite urban centers isn't a simple moral good, and is often a net negative for those communities that will be drained, not a gain--the only questions of relevance are whether the upper classes are morally good, and whether a good life of meaningful work is available to all people, not whether the upper class is open to diverse new members. Likewise, it doesn't matter at all if the people destroying the integrity of our culture via the market are incredibly diverse; that's not even interesting as a footnote. But it's all we'll hear about, as if that is the great moral concern about tech or other industries.

This dishonest strategy also drives the military's PR today. Don't like the drones, questionable involvements, military contractors, etc? Well, we'll be told, you should be glad to know that there women in power at all of these, so it's actually a good thing! In fact, many of the most ruthless military contractors are now headed by women, as one of the military social media accounts proudly posted recently. Diversity in all these cases just carefully hides a sameness of thought and action.

Let me add that I find this equally reprehensible in video games. I don't think the brutality of Mortal Kombat is a good thing; I think it's rather juvenile to want to watch exploding organs and dismemberments. But bizarrely you will find that progressives are pretty much perfectly good with MK, with Game of Thrones, and many other violent fantasies, demanding only one thing to make it morally palatable: it must be diverse. Brutality is suddenly empowering if it prominently features women in agency. This is just gross and confused as a moral imperative.

I also recommend checking out Woke Capital for a daily laugh at all this: https://twitter.com/WokeCapital
 

ssolitare

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We've all been providing evidence. Please provide some of this "plenty of evidence of better performance", or else don't waste everyone's time with empty distractions.

If diversity is a term that "each business defines for themselves", why is there such a strong push for particular kinds of diversity? Why is it specifically the gender and racial diversity getting pushed, the very items you're saying we should "not get too wrapped up" in? Sounds like more deflections and non-answers.

Your post amounts to "dudes, chill, diversity is, like, not a totally bad thing. Don't question it. Just deal with it. It's gonna be fine, friends. Like, it'll all work out".

A fine attitude to have, but it doesn't add anything meaningful to a discussion about "openly questioning the value of diversity".

Um, how about I just tell you my perspective/experiences and we go on from there. Because what I want to say, and the way that I see industries changing is entirely different from the way that you are thinking.
 

Papa

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Um, how about I just tell you my perspective/experiences and we go on from there. Because what I want to say, and the way that I see industries changing is entirely different from the way that you are thinking.

Ah, the lived experience argument. For once can you please just cut the hot air and arm waving?
 

DunDunDunpachi

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Um, how about I just tell you my perspective/experiences and we go on from there. Because what I want to say, and the way that I see industries changing is entirely different from the way that you are thinking.
I'm not interested in your "experiences" and I'm not interested in your perspective on large-scale issues unless they are rooted in facts and demonstrable evidence.

Where is the evidence that these diversity quotas help things? I've already provided studies showing they do not help. Care to refute?
 
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ssolitare

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Ah, the lived experience argument. For once can you please just cut the hot air and arm waving?

Well think about it.

You guys are so interested in talking about quotas, which are all over the map in terms of it's possible/neg outcomes. One size doesn't fit all. And I think that you missed the boat on the benefits/issues of targeting diversity traits for the last few decades now. A lot of that is old news, and things are starting to go a different route now.

Companies are starting to drive inclusivity, which is coincidentally driving diversity outcomes. One part is establishing an inclusive culture, the other part is reducing resumes/interviews and moving onto Anon technical testing (with a twist). My company is a great example. It's hard to do, but way better than quotas which are limited by area demographics, and it's even more merit based.

That's what I'm interested in talking about.
 

Papa

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Well think about it.

You guys are so interested in talking about quotas, which are all over the map in terms of it's possible/neg outcomes. One size doesn't fit all. And I think that you missed the boat on the benefits/issues of targeting diversity traits for the last few decades now. A lot of that is old news, and things are starting to go a different route now.

Companies are starting to drive inclusivity, which is coincidentally driving diversity outcomes. One part is establishing an inclusive culture, the other part is reducing resumes/interviews and moving onto Anon technical testing (with a twist). My company is a great example. It's hard to do, but way better than quotas which are limited by area demographics, and it's even more merit based.

That's what I'm interested in talking about.

Have you considered a run in politics? I've never met anyone who can say so much while saying nothing at all.
 
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ssolitare

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Have you considered a run in politics? I've never met anyone who can say so much while saying nothing at all.

You'll catch up one day. The way a business thinks, and measures is different than the political optics.
 
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