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Microsoft says games don’t need to be on Game Pass to be viable on Xbox (VCG)

kingfey

Banned
Probably during your self-imposed ban that you tried to fake your way out of with an alt account.
I was on an actual break. Didnt use this site for a long time, during that period. It was great break for me.

Got myself hooked to sports in the process. Now I am living both hell world. Worrying about my team, and chatting here in the process.
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Then you only read what you wanted to read. Sure....ignore it then.

Yes, like I said, I only read the first page and I was pleasantly surprised that most of the posts there are people showing skepticism. Including yourself.

I don't know how that accounts s "me reading only what I want to read". Even now any hot button topic tends to devolve into useless drivel when it reaches page 8, 10, 12 etc.
 

Shmunter

Member
Don’t fall for the BS. Any overlap between the subscription and al a carte sales is minuscule. They are in opposition for all intents and purposes. The sample at retail we get out of the uk is large enough to be extrapolated through the west, the comments on forums about waiting for a game to come to gamepass is another barometer.
 

kingfey

Banned
Don’t fall for the BS. Any overlap between the subscription and al a carte sales is minuscule. They are in opposition for all intents and purposes. The sample at retail we get out of the uk is large enough to be extrapolated through the west, the comments on forums about waiting for a game to come to gamepass is another barometer.
Yes, the mighty UK, where physical sales is the best data people should use.

I am sorry, but that is now how these sales work. We have clear evidence that Xbox sales in UK is mostly towards digital. 80/20 split. Then you have the split between xbox and PS, which makes the number of xbox small. Same thing for EU.
 

Topher

Gold Member
Yes, like I said, I only read the first page and I was pleasantly surprised that most of the posts there are people showing skepticism. Including yourself.

I don't know how that accounts s "me reading only what I want to read". Even now any hot button topic tends to devolve into useless drivel when it reaches page 8, 10, 12 etc.

Fair enough. I'll not rehash that topic any further.

I was on an actual break.

Then why pretend there was some "big sorcery"?
 

Hezekiah

Banned
Will they share sales numbers then now? so we can stop guessing, or will they fear the public perception of their "spend 50% more" as people who spend 5 more dollars on MTX since the game is free on GP.

I don't particularly like sales marketing numbers, this is exactly what all my reps do when they're trying to sell me on something.
Nah we'll get GamePass numbers when they think they've reached an impressive number or a specific milestone.

All you'll get with regards to games is the number of players, like with Forza, and Halo where the drop-off has been steep.
 

kingfey

Banned
Nah we'll get GamePass numbers when they think they've reached an impressive number or a specific milestone.
So far, they seem to talk about during big events. They should have given to us this quarter report, but they didnt.


All you'll get with regards to games is the number of players, like with Forza, and Halo where the drop-off has been steep
Both are still big on xbox, if you are concerned about that. Since that is where they are popular, not steam.

Anyway, player count is nice feature. It gives us the number of people that played the game. Wish devs release those numbers.
 

Three

Member

Zeroing

Banned
Phil Spencer said he’s frequently asked by developers whether it’s worthwhile releasing their products on Xbox if they’re not on Game Pass.


Xbox Game Pass launched in June 2017 and has become central to Microsoft’s gaming business, attracting over 25 million subscribers as of January 2022, according to the company.

 

Shmunter

Member
Yes, the mighty UK, where physical sales is the best data people should use.

I am sorry, but that is now how these sales work. We have clear evidence that Xbox sales in UK is mostly towards digital. 80/20 split. Then you have the split between xbox and PS, which makes the number of xbox small. Same thing for EU.
The only evidence we have is that xbox games don't sell at retail. The rest is your guess work.

The idea that on balance, people who subscribe for hundreds of games still purchase the same quantity as those that don't defies logic in itself. Is that what you do? Because that’s fine, but you’d be in the minority.
 
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Hezekiah

Banned
So far, they seem to talk about during big events. They should have given to us this quarter report, but they didnt.



Both are still big on xbox, if you are concerned about that. Since that is where they are popular, not steam.

Anyway, player count is nice feature. It gives us the number of people that played the game. Wish devs release those numbers.
Last time I saw Halo was no.5 most played.

Not great for their biggest franchise which happens to be f2p, and which they had such high hopes for.
 

kingfey

Banned
The only evidence we have is that xbox games don't sell at retail. The rest is your guess work.
because Xbox player buy digital. This has been proved by the UK market. They dont buy alot of disc.

The idea that on balance, people who subscribe for hundreds of games still purchase the same quantity as those that don't defies logic in itself. Is that what you do? Because that’s fine, but you’d be in the minority.
That doesnt stop you from buying games. The idea of subscription to save you money, so you can spend on other stuff.

Gamepass would save you all xbox 1st party games. So you have those money to spend on 3rd party games. That is a simple logic.
 

Shmunter

Member
because Xbox player buy digital. This has been proved by the UK market. They dont buy alot of disc.


That doesnt stop you from buying games. The idea of subscription to save you money, so you can spend on other stuff.

Gamepass would save you all xbox 1st party games. So you have those money to spend on 3rd party games. That is a simple logic.
 

kingfey

Banned
Halo did terrible in terms of sales. As a barometer BF2042 outsold it.
  1. Call of Duty: Vanguard
  2. Halo Infinite
  3. Pokemon Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl*
  4. Madden NFL 22
  5. Battlefield 2042
  6. Mario Kart 8
  7. Marvel's Spider-Man: Miles Morales
  8. Mario Party Superstars*
  9. NBA 2K22*
  10. Animal Crossing: New Horizons
  11. FIFA 22
These are big game sales. Call of duty is still big, no matter how bad that game is. Vanguard sold almost a million in EU. That is a how big Call of duty is.

Battlefield still have huge followers. Regular people would still buy them.
 

Roxkis_ii

Gold Member
My thoughts are that people on gamepass are mostly looking for games on games pass. I've seen a few comments in the grid legends thread about people bemoaning that its only the demo that is on game pass and they'll wait for a sale.

Xbox doesn't seem like their priming their fans for buying regular games.

Though I will admit my view of the situation is narrow.
 

Three

Member
  1. Call of Duty: Vanguard
  2. Halo Infinite
  3. Pokemon Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl*
  4. Madden NFL 22
  5. Battlefield 2042
  6. Mario Kart 8
  7. Marvel's Spider-Man: Miles Morales
  8. Mario Party Superstars*
  9. NBA 2K22*
  10. Animal Crossing: New Horizons
  11. FIFA 22
These are big game sales. Call of duty is still big, no matter how bad that game is. Vanguard sold almost a million in EU. That is a how big Call of duty is.

Battlefield still have huge followers. Regular people would still buy them.
This was launch month and it came second. It's bizarre that when other games chart at number one people try to question numbers but with Halo at number two numbers don't matter. Halo didn't show in the charts after that. I think it dropped to 15th then out the top 20 in NPD. The likes of Battlefield 2042 outsold it week after week beyond that.

In the UK it was like the game didn't even exist during launch month and this is GSD data which includes digital

1 FIFA 22 (EA)
2 Call of Duty: Vanguard (Activision Blizzard)
3 Grand Theft Auto 5 (Rockstar)
4 F1 2021 (Codemasters)
5 Just Dance 2022 (Ubisoft)
6 Spider-Man: Miles Morales (Sony)
7 Battlefield 2042 (EA)
8 Mario Kart 8: Deluxe (Nintendo)*
9 Pokémon Brilliant Diamond (Nintendo)*
10 Far Cry 6 (Ubisoft)
11 Marvel's Guardians of the Galaxy (Square Enix)
12 Minecraft: Nintendo Switch Edition (Mojang/Nintendo)
13 Red Dead Redemption 2 (Rockstar)
14 Riders Republic (Ubisoft)
15 Animal Crossing: New Horizons (Nintendo)*
16 Pokémon Shining Pearl (Nintendo)*
17 Mortal Kombat 11 (Warner Bros)
18 Assassin's Creed Valhalla (Ubisoft)
19 LEGO Harry Potter Collection (Warner Bros)
20 Grand Theft Auto: The Trilogy Definitive Edition (Rockstar)


Xbox's second strongest market. Halo did not sell well. I don't know why people deny this.
 
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kingfey

Banned
This was launch month and it came second. It's bizarre that when other games chart at number one people try to question numbers but with Halo at number two numbers don't matter. Halo didn't show in the charts after that. I think it dropped to 15th then out the top 20 in NPD. The likes of Battlefield 2042 outsold it week after week beyond that.

In the UK it was like the game didn't even exist during that month and this is GSD data which includes digital

1 FIFA 22 (EA)
2 Call of Duty: Vanguard (Activision Blizzard)
3 Grand Theft Auto 5 (Rockstar)
4 F1 2021 (Codemasters)
5 Just Dance 2022 (Ubisoft)
6 Spider-Man: Miles Morales (Sony)
7 Battlefield 2042 (EA)
8 Mario Kart 8: Deluxe (Nintendo)*
9 Pokémon Brilliant Diamond (Nintendo)*
10 Far Cry 6 (Ubisoft)
11 Marvel's Guardians of the Galaxy (Square Enix)
12 Minecraft: Nintendo Switch Edition (Mojang/Nintendo)
13 Red Dead Redemption 2 (Rockstar)
14 Riders Republic (Ubisoft)
15 Animal Crossing: New Horizons (Nintendo)*
16 Pokémon Shining Pearl (Nintendo)*
17 Mortal Kombat 11 (Warner Bros)
18 Assassin's Creed Valhalla (Ubisoft)
19 LEGO Harry Potter Collection (Warner Bros)
20 Grand Theft Auto: The Trilogy Definitive Edition (Rockstar)


Xbox's second strongest market. Halo did not sell well. I don't know why people deny this.
Halo is more of NA region product.
 

Azurro

Member
...

“I also want to make clear to people that are out there that for us at Xbox, there’s not one business model that we think is going to win,” he said. “I often get asked by developers, ‘if I’m not in the subscription am I just not viable on Xbox anymore?’ and it’s absolutely not true.

“Like we look at retail of people selling games, buying games, it’s an important part of our P&L [profit and loss statement], you know that. And it’s something that we invest resources in to enable our developers to do great work there.”
...

Interesting that they have to clarify this to developers. If it was evident that sales numbers on Xbox were doing fine, nobody would be asking him.
 

Mephisto40

Member
I would like to see the sales of Elden Ring on xbox compared to playstation on comparison to total console sales on both platforms, then we'll see what sales of games that arent on gamepass are like on xbox compared to their competition

Pretty much everybody I know, myself included, who has bought and xbox series s /x, hasn't bought a single game off the store on it so far this gen. Literally every single person I know has just downloaded gamepass games and nothing else
 
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ToadMan

Member
I don’t buy anything standalone on Xsex - just wait for gamepass stuff.

If I’m buying a stand alone game, I buy it on PS5.

So for me yeah - if it’s not on gamepass on xsex I’m not gonna buy it there.

This has worked in reverse too - I don’t buy MLB The Show on PS5 either and won’t while it comes to GP.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I haven't seen a single place where any Xbox fan is saying they don't need a console.

Why use made up scenarios to try and make a point.

So so so many have made that point. But not for today, but in the "near" future. Many have made the point that the console is becoming irrelevant. The arguments happen when people make the point that Xbox Series Z (aka the future supposed Firestick like Xbox HDMI stick that will run GamePass) and when the GamePass app will be on every Smart TV.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
This was launch month and it came second. It's bizarre that when other games chart at number one people try to question numbers but with Halo at number two numbers don't matter. Halo didn't show in the charts after that. I think it dropped to 15th then out the top 20 in NPD. The likes of Battlefield 2042 outsold it week after week beyond that.

In the UK it was like the game didn't even exist during launch month and this is GSD data which includes digital

1 FIFA 22 (EA)
2 Call of Duty: Vanguard (Activision Blizzard)
3 Grand Theft Auto 5 (Rockstar)
4 F1 2021 (Codemasters)
5 Just Dance 2022 (Ubisoft)
6 Spider-Man: Miles Morales (Sony)
7 Battlefield 2042 (EA)
8 Mario Kart 8: Deluxe (Nintendo)*
9 Pokémon Brilliant Diamond (Nintendo)*
10 Far Cry 6 (Ubisoft)
11 Marvel's Guardians of the Galaxy (Square Enix)
12 Minecraft: Nintendo Switch Edition (Mojang/Nintendo)
13 Red Dead Redemption 2 (Rockstar)
14 Riders Republic (Ubisoft)
15 Animal Crossing: New Horizons (Nintendo)*
16 Pokémon Shining Pearl (Nintendo)*
17 Mortal Kombat 11 (Warner Bros)
18 Assassin's Creed Valhalla (Ubisoft)
19 LEGO Harry Potter Collection (Warner Bros)
20 Grand Theft Auto: The Trilogy Definitive Edition (Rockstar)


Xbox's second strongest market. Halo did not sell well. I don't know why people deny this.

How is this possible? Since there's no link, I'm willing to believe T Three is possibly trolling here. No way Halo Infinite didn't chart in the top 20 in it's launch month in the UK.
 

Jaybe

Member
I think it’s conceivable that Starfield will be Game Pass only. You can’t even pre-order it yet, and companies love to get their hands on $ early. Maybe they are still figuring the monetization for preorder editions though. howver the MS executive level’s only gaming-related bonus KPI is game pass subscription numbers. And executive compensation is mostly related to bonuses.
 

Riky

My little VRR pleasure pearl goes vrrrooommm.
Halo debuted third behind FIFA and Vanguard in its launch week in the UK. Do people really believe that Microsoft wouldn't expect games to not sell as many copies when over 25 million of the users have access to the game already and the multi player was free to play anyway?
We don't know how many people signed up for Gamepass to play the campaign, we don't know how many people purchased the battle pass like I did.

Microsoft have obviously made the calculation that's it's worth putting first party games on Gamepass day one and sacrificing some sales, I didn't buy the game as I'm subscribed until 2025 and if I did want to own it like Forza Horizon 5 it will be significantly cheaper by then.
 

Three

Member
How is this possible? Since there's no link, I'm willing to believe T Three is possibly trolling here. No way Halo Infinite didn't chart in the top 20 in it's launch month in the UK.



Halo debuted third behind FIFA and Vanguard in its launch week in the UK. Do people really believe that Microsoft wouldn't expect games to not sell as many copies when over 25 million of the users have access to the game already and the multi player was free to play anyway?
We don't know how many people signed up for Gamepass to play the campaign, we don't know how many people purchased the battle pass like I did.

Microsoft have obviously made the calculation that's it's worth putting first party games on Gamepass day one and sacrificing some sales, I didn't buy the game as I'm subscribed until 2025 and if I did want to own it like Forza Horizon 5 it will be significantly cheaper by then.

A week is not a month but let the excuses roll. Somebody said Halo sold well, somebody said it sold well regardless of being available on gamepass. Now you're saying but we don't know how many played on gamepass when it didn't sell well?


Gfk data on launch week was

1)Fifa 22
2) CoD: Vanguard
3) Mario kart 8
4) Halo

Should tell you how low debut numbers were.

GSD (digital + physical) data was

1) Fifa 22
2) CoD: Vanguard
3) Halo

The next weeks GSD data (physical + digital) was

  1. FIFA 22
  2. Call of Duty: Vanguard
  3. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe
  4. Spider-Man: Miles Morales
  5. Among Us
  6. Grand Theft Auto: The Trilogy Definitive Edition
  7. Minecraft (Switch)
  8. Just Dance 2022
  9. Pokémon: Brilliant Diamond
  10. Animal Crossing: New Horizons

Notice it's nowhere to be seen one week later. As I said it did not even make top 20 for December.
 
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Riky

My little VRR pleasure pearl goes vrrrooommm.
And? 25 million plus Gamepass owners have already paid for access to the game like myself, the multiplayer is free.
I'm sure somebody Microsoft has factored this in.
 

Hezekiah

Banned





A week is not a month but let the excuses roll. Somebody said Halo sold well, somebody said it sold well regardless of being available on gamepass. Now you're saying but we don't know how many played on gamepass when it didn't sell well?


Gfk data on launch week was

1)Fifa 22
2) CoD: Vanguard
3) Mario kart 8
4) Halo

Should tell you how low debut numbers were.

GSD (digital + physical) data was

1) Fifa 22
2) CoD: Vanguard
3) Halo

The next weeks GSD data (physical + digital) was

  1. FIFA 22
  2. Call of Duty: Vanguard
  3. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe
  4. Spider-Man: Miles Morales
  5. Among Us
  6. Grand Theft Auto: The Trilogy Definitive Edition
  7. Minecraft (Switch)
  8. Just Dance 2022
  9. Pokémon: Brilliant Diamond
  10. Animal Crossing: New Horizons

Notice it's nowhere to be seen one week later. As I said it did not even make top 20 for December.
Sales don't matter to MS anyway.

It's about how the game is doing now, but given how it's tumbled down the Steam charts, has come down the Xbox most played charts, and the complaints about a lack of content, I doubt current mtx and engagement is meeting expectations. They'll be hoping the new maps/game modes brings people back.
 

Three

Member
And? 25 million plus Gamepass owners have already paid for access to the game like myself, the multiplayer is free.
I'm sure somebody Microsoft has factored this in.
And it sold poorly being on gamepass. I'm sure they have but that's not the point.

Adamsapple: "Hell Halo Infinite was only behind CoD: Vanguard in its release month sales despite being on gamepass"

Me: Halo sold poorly though
*ricky signature laugh emoji*

You: Halo debuted at number 3. It was on gamepass

Me: for the December week it launched in but sold poorly overall, sales outside of gamepass is the point being discussed.
*ricky signature laugh emoji*

You: And? it was on gamepass. I've paid for access.

 

Three

Member
Sales don't matter to MS anyway.

It's about how the game is doing now, but given how it's tumbled down the Steam charts, has come down the Xbox most played charts, and the complaints about a lack of content, I doubt current mtx and engagement is meeting expectations. They'll be hoping the new maps/game modes brings people back.
Exactly it's a GaaS game but I'm not sure why people are using it as a barometer of sales outside gamepass when it sold so poorly.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives





A week is not a month but let the excuses roll. Somebody said Halo sold well, somebody said it sold well regardless of being available on gamepass. Now you're saying but we don't know how many played on gamepass when it didn't sell well?


Gfk data on launch week was

1)Fifa 22
2) CoD: Vanguard
3) Mario kart 8
4) Halo

Should tell you how low debut numbers were.

GSD (digital + physical) data was

1) Fifa 22
2) CoD: Vanguard
3) Halo

The next weeks GSD data (physical + digital) was

  1. FIFA 22
  2. Call of Duty: Vanguard
  3. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe
  4. Spider-Man: Miles Morales
  5. Among Us
  6. Grand Theft Auto: The Trilogy Definitive Edition
  7. Minecraft (Switch)
  8. Just Dance 2022
  9. Pokémon: Brilliant Diamond
  10. Animal Crossing: New Horizons

Notice it's nowhere to be seen one week later. As I said it did not even make top 20 for December.

Oh no. This isn't good. I'm hoping it speaks more to how people feel about Halo Infinite and not a trend due to GamePass.
 
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mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Sales don't matter to MS anyway.

It's about how the game is doing now, but given how it's tumbled down the Steam charts, has come down the Xbox most played charts, and the complaints about a lack of content, I doubt current mtx and engagement is meeting expectations. They'll be hoping the new maps/game modes brings people back.

This is incorrect. Please don't let the Xbox fanboys make you believe this lie! MS do care about sales.
 

Riky

My little VRR pleasure pearl goes vrrrooommm.
And it sold poorly being on gamepass. I'm sure they have but that's not the point.

Adamsapple: "Hell Halo Infinite was only behind CoD: Vanguard in its release month sales despite being on gamepass"

Me: Halo sold poorly though
*ricky signature laugh emoji*

You: Halo debuted at number 3. It was on gamepass

Me: for the December week it launched in but sold poorly overall, sales outside of gamepass is the point being discussed.
*ricky signature laugh emoji*

You: And? it was on gamepass. I've paid for access.


You're making a point that is so obvious it makes you look really stupid.

25 million plus owners of Gamepass didn't have to pay for the game as they have already paid for access, so game doesn't sell as many copies.

You think nobody at Microsoft realised that would happen? Really?

We don't know how many it actually sold but since Microsoft are putting all their games on Gamepass day one they have obviously factored in the loss of sales.

Your point is totally irrelevant.
 
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tmlDan

Member
Then your experience should know that Microsoft chose to obfuscate a lot of their numbers ages ago, such as those for Windows and Office - their primary revenue and profit drivers.

I've chosen to interpret the tactics of fewer discrete numbers as part of Microsoft's shift to loss leading subscription services. It takes a while to build the base, where the numbers start to trend up. But, given Microsoft continues to post profits every financial year, I'd say they're doing fine.
The argument isn't that GP is doing poorly, I have no doubt it will eventually be very profitable if it keeps its current pace.

The biggest argument is its benefit for third party or even first party studios in generating single game revenue for profit sharing (what a lot of devs like getting ya know?)

People in this thread are claiming they know what the lookalike modelling is in the deck they shared, they claim they know what MS is referring to.

All im saying is that its bait, it's all inflated and almost entirely untrue or manipulated data to get smaller devs or third party studios on board thinking they'll make more money if they sign a deal with MS.

In time we will see if this results in shit games being on the service and first party only or something of real value and enjoyment. It may also result in MS losing employees by the boatload over time since their profit sharing has been obliterated by sub services that don't garner real sales, just "10 million people who played it for 2 min". I mean, unless its all service based games....
 

ZehDon

Member
... All im saying is that its bait, it's all inflated and almost entirely untrue or manipulated data...
Your argument is that Microsoft's recently released Game Pass data is actually almost entirely fraudulent? Publicly traded companies releasing falsified data in this manner is a crime in the United States, where Microsoft is based. You'd better have some serious fucking info to substantiate that kind of claim, friend.
 
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